bboy87 said:

The estate has been more focused on doing other projects and clearing the debt than releasing unreleased music, which I think should be main focus

Wouldn't it stand to reason that if they were sitting on lost classics, that releasing unreleased music would go a long way towards clearing the debt?

Imaginative said:

That's why there is SO much material coming out now that he's dead.

It's only been two years and we've had (not counting dubious vocal tracks):

Hollywood Tonight

Behind The Mask

All In Your Name

Blue Gangster

Slave To The Rhythm

This Is It

Do You Know Where Your Children Are

I Am The Loser

Hold My Hand

Best of Joy

Much Too Soon

Another Day

Days In Gloucestershire

And like every famous musicians estate, you know they're planning on stretching it out and milking his unreleased material for as many years as possible.

I would say that's evidence enough that he recorded a lot more than he chose to release.

mjforever said:

Thats incredible!

mjforever said:

Thanks for sharing. I'm guessing the most of the music sitting in the "vault" is of this quality if not lower.

Imaginative said:

mjforever said:

Thanks for sharing. I'm guessing the most of the music sitting in the "vault" is of this quality if not lower.

This is not actually an unreleased song...

Imaginative said:

mjforever said:

Thanks for sharing. I'm guessing the most of the music sitting in the "vault" is of this quality if not lower.

That's not a genuine unrelease track retard. Someones made that up from various different released vocals.

Why are you even here anyway? Fuck off to a Beatles thread if you love them so much.

MattyJam said:

Imaginative said:

It's only been two years and we've had (not counting dubious vocal tracks):

Hollywood Tonight

Behind The Mask

All In Your Name

Blue Gangster

Slave To The Rhythm

This Is It

Do You Know Where Your Children Are

I Am The Loser

Hold My Hand

Best of Joy

Much Too Soon

Another Day

Days In Gloucestershire

And like every famous musicians estate, you know they're planning on stretching it out and milking his unreleased material for as many years as possible.

I would say that's evidence enough that he recorded a lot more than he chose to release.

And the evidence shows that a majority of the "new" songs are sketches at most that would require new over-dubbing to make them acceptable for release.

And to my point, not a single one of these songs is compelling to anyone outside of the most die-hard fans, who are incapable of looking at his work with a critical eye. You'd think that Sony would have at least chosen one HIT SINGLE to promote the 2 posthumous album releases, but all of the material has been terrible (when compared to Jackson's own canon of released work). Given what has been released so far, I think it's a safe bet that there is nothing in the vaults capable of breaking the Top 40 (unlike, say John Lennon's posthumous vault releases).

MattyJam said:

Why are you even here anyway? Fuck off to a Beatles thread if you love them so much.

I'm interested in engaging in critical discussions of Jackson's work, and this is the only thread on the forum where this is allowed. As I mentioned, I am a huge fan of Jackson's work up through Thriller. After that, sadly, his mental illness took a back-seat to his music IMO.

Imaginative said:

MattyJam said:

It's only been two years and we've had (not counting dubious vocal tracks):

Hollywood Tonight

Behind The Mask

All In Your Name

Blue Gangster

Slave To The Rhythm

This Is It

Do You Know Where Your Children Are

I Am The Loser

Hold My Hand

Best of Joy

Much Too Soon

Another Day

Days In Gloucestershire

And like every famous musicians estate, you know they're planning on stretching it out and milking his unreleased material for as many years as possible.

I would say that's evidence enough that he recorded a lot more than he chose to release.

And to my point, not a single one of these songs is compelling to anyone outside of the most die-hard fans

That's not true at all. Hollywood Tonight was MJ's biggest club track on the US Billboard dance charts since the early 90s and earnt him his first US club number 1 since Scream. Hold My Hand was a top ten hit in 16 countries.

Imaginative said:

MattyJam said:

Why are you even here anyway? Fuck off to a Beatles thread if you love them so much.

I'm interested in engaging in critical discussions of Jackson's work, and this is the only thread on the forum where this is allowed. As I mentioned, I am a huge fan of Jackson's work up through Thriller. After that, sadly, his mental illness took a back-seat to his music IMO.

So basically you're a troll?

As you seem to be randomly dropping the Beatles into almost every post, you come across to me as a sad Beatles loon who trolls online MJ discussions daily because you feel threatened by MJ's posthumous acclaim and success.

A bit sad and pathetic, don't you think?

MattyJam said:

Imaginative said:

And to my point, not a single one of these songs is compelling to anyone outside of the most die-hard fans

That's not true at all. Hollywood Tonight was MJ's biggest club track on the US Billboard dance charts since the early 90s and earnt him his first US club number 1 since Scream. Hold My Hand was a top ten hit in 16 countries.

Go out on the street and ask random strangers if they can hum the chorus to either of these songs. Let me know how that turns out for you.

MattyJam said:

Imaginative said:

I'm interested in engaging in critical discussions of Jackson's work, and this is the only thread on the forum where this is allowed. As I mentioned, I am a huge fan of Jackson's work up through Thriller. After that, sadly, his mental illness took a back-seat to his music IMO.

So basically you're a troll?

As you seem to be randomly dropping the Beatles into almost every post, you come across to me as a sad Beatles loon who trolls online MJ discussions daily because you feel threatened by MJ's posthumous acclaim and success.

A bit sad and pathetic, don't you think?

Disagreeing is not trolling. I have praised Jackson in this thread and I have also criticized him. Sorry if that is too much for your weak constitution to handle. I bring up the Beatles, when relevant. I have also mentioned Madonna, The Police and Prince, among others.

Are you capable of being in the least bit critical of any of Jackson's work, or does that conflict with your delusions?

Imaginative said:

MattyJam said:

That's not true at all. Hollywood Tonight was MJ's biggest club track on the US Billboard dance charts since the early 90s and earnt him his first US club number 1 since Scream. Hold My Hand was a top ten hit in 16 countries.

Go out on the street and ask random strangers if they can hum the chorus to either of these songs. Let me know how that turns out for you.

Okay. Whilst I'm at it, I'll also conduct a poll of how many people born after 1990 can hum a single Beatles tune.

Imaginative said:

MattyJam said:

Why are you even here anyway? Fuck off to a Beatles thread if you love them so much.

I'm interested in engaging in critical discussions of Jackson's work, and this is the only thread on the forum where this is allowed. As I mentioned, I am a huge fan of Jackson's work up through Thriller. After that, sadly, his mental illness took a back-seat to his music IMO.

So you dislike the majority of his adult solo career and yet you choose to discuss his music on a daily basis?

MattyJam said:

Imaginative said:

I'm interested in engaging in critical discussions of Jackson's work, and this is the only thread on the forum where this is allowed. As I mentioned, I am a huge fan of Jackson's work up through Thriller. After that, sadly, his mental illness took a back-seat to his music IMO.

So you dislike the majority of his adult solo career and yet you choose to discuss his music on a daily basis?

The greatest work in his canon is his earlier work. I also like some of the post-Thriller singles, but for the most part it was very sporadic IMO. Sorry again if you can't handle hearing someone with a different opinion than yourself.

What is sad and pathetic is that Michael Jackson fans no longer have an online place to congregate with any regular traffic whatsoever, so they must instead use a Prince board to expresses their obsession, even though they have now abused their privileges to the point of not being allowed to have more than one thread relating to their deceased hero. I guess his fanbase is dwindling. If you like, I can steer you towards several highly trafficked Beatles-forums even though they broke up 50 years ago and have a much less computer-savvy demographic. Maybe you can start your Jackson threads there.

Again, I remind you... THIS IS NOT A MICHAEL JACKSON APPRECIATION thread; it's "Discuss Anything and Everything MJ." If you would like to talk to the mods to turn this into an appreciation thread, I will be happy to start one where people are comfortable talking about his life and music with a more critical eye.

MattyJam said:

Imaginative said:

Go out on the street and ask random strangers if they can hum the chorus to either of these songs. Let me know how that turns out for you.

Okay. Whilst I'm at it, I'll also conduct a poll of how many people born after 1990 can hum a single Beatles tune.

Oh, please do!! You'll be hard pressed to find a 21-year old who can't, and that's a band who broke up 40 years ago! (You seem to be bringing them up more than I.)

Imaginative said:

MattyJam said:

So you dislike the majority of his adult solo career and yet you choose to discuss his music on a daily basis?

The greatest work in his canon is his earlier work. I also like some of the post-Thriller singles, but for the most part it was very sporadic IMO. Sorry again if you can't handle hearing someone with a different opinion than yourself.

What is sad and pathetic is that Michael Jackson fans no longer have an online place to congregate with any regular traffic whatsoever, so they must instead use a Prince board to expresses their obsession, even though they have now abused their privileges to the point of not being allowed to have more than one thread relating to their deceased hero. I guess his fanbase is dwindling. If you like, I can steer you towards several highly trafficked Beatles-forums even though they broke up 50 years ago and have a much less computer-savvy demographic. Maybe you can start your Jackson threads there.

Again, I remind you... THIS IS NOT A MICHAEL JACKSON APPRECIATION thread; it's "Discuss Anything and Everything MJ." If you would like to talk to the mods to turn this into an appreciation thread, I will be happy to start one where people are comfortable talking about his life and music with a more critical eye.

Are you kidding? There are TONS of Michael forums with more than regular traffic. You have NO idea what you're saying. At all.

And please stop with this Beatles crap. You really have no idea what you're saying with this dwindling fanbase crap.

Tsk.

smoothcriminal12 said:

Are you kidding? There are TONS of Michael forums with more than regular traffic. You have NO idea what you're saying. At all.

And please stop with this Beatles crap. You really have no idea what you're saying with this dwindling fanbase crap.

Tsk.

Show me tons of English speaking Jackson dedicated forums with regular traffic. By the way, Matty, it's safe to say that any Jackson fanatic can hum at least one Beatles tune and one obscure McCartney track.

Imaginative said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

Are you kidding? There are TONS of Michael forums with more than regular traffic. You have NO idea what you're saying. At all.

And please stop with this Beatles crap. You really have no idea what you're saying with this dwindling fanbase crap.

Tsk.

Show me tons of English speaking Jackson dedicated forums with regular traffic. By the way, Matty, it's safe to say that any Jackson fanatic can hum at least one Beatles tune and one obscure McCartney track.

Try MJJC, Maximum-Jackson, KOP, MJJBoard for starters.

Imaginative said:

By the way, Matty, it's safe to say that any Jackson fanatic can hum at least one Beatles tune and one obscure McCartney track.

Oh what, you mean everyones least favourite song on Thriller and everyones least favourite song on HIStory??

MattyJam said:

Imaginative said:

By the way, Matty, it's safe to say that any Jackson fanatic can hum at least one Beatles tune and one obscure McCartney track.

Oh what, you mean everyones least favourite song on Thriller and everyones least favourite song on HIStory??

Imaginative said:

What is sad and pathetic is that Michael Jackson fans no longer have an online place to congregate with any regular traffic whatsoever

I think most of us on this thread regularly visit MJ boards. I could play along with your little game and tell you their names, but I'm pretty sure you've most probably been banned from several of them so I'm sure you already know.

smoothcriminal12 said:

MattyJam said:

Oh what, you mean everyones least favourite song on Thriller and everyones least favourite song on HIStory??

Yes, exactly. The songs that Jackson chose to cover when he had a hard time coming up with enough original material to fill his own albums, even though he generally only released them every five years or so. Another positive thing I can say about Jackson, he had incredible taste.

How many other artists did he cover on his albums, again?

smoothcriminal12 said:

Imaginative said:

Show me tons of English speaking Jackson dedicated forums with regular traffic. By the way, Matty, it's safe to say that any Jackson fanatic can hum at least one Beatles tune and one obscure McCartney track.

Try MJJC, Maximum-Jackson, KOP, MJJBoard for starters.

Cool, I stand somewhat corrected. (Not sure if four qualifies as "tons," when one is official.) Those all seem to be better places for Matty, if he can't handle even the slightest criticism of his favorite artist.

I LOVE that one has a section called, "Fan Fiction!" Perfect for Matty, and probably many other delusional Jackson fans. Very telling indeed.

DISAGREEING IS NOT TROLLING.

Imaginative said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

Try MJJC, Maximum-Jackson, KOP, MJJBoard for starters.

Cool, I stand somewhat corrected. (Not sure if four qualifies as "tons," when one is official.) Those all seem to be better places for Matty, if he can't handle even the slightest criticism of his favorite artist.

I LOVE that one has a section called, "Fan Fiction!" Perfect for Matty, and probably many other delusional Jackson fans. Very telling indeed.

DISAGREEING IS NOT TROLLING.

Fuck you - you don't know the first thing about me.

I've made plenty of criticism regarding MJ's career choices, music and lifestyle in the past. I just don't engage in such conversations with TROLLS.

MattyJam said:

Fuck you - you don't know the first thing about me.

I've made plenty of criticism regarding MJ's career choices, music and lifestyle in the past. I just don't engage in such conversations with TROLLS.

Again, disagreeing is NOT trolling. You ARE "engaging in conversations" with me! Here I said Jackson had great taste, but you still focus on the negative.

Imaginative said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

Try MJJC, Maximum-Jackson, KOP, MJJBoard for starters.

Cool, I stand somewhat corrected. (Not sure if four qualifies as "tons," when one is official.) Those all seem to be better places for Matty, if he can't handle even the slightest criticism of his favorite artist.

I LOVE that one has a section called, "Fan Fiction!" Perfect for Matty, and probably many other delusional Jackson fans. Very telling indeed.

DISAGREEING IS NOT TROLLING.

I don't think there is one official fan forum...which one said it was official?

And there are much more, those are just the four I can remember off the top of my head.

Let me try to get this thread back on topic and in a positive light...

A friend lent me his Blu-ray of THIS IS IT to watch over the weekend. Never saw it, so I'm really looking forward to hearing at least a few fully fleshed out live recordings of what the songs would have sounded like on the tour. With only three weeks to go before the first show when he died, I'm sure at least a few sound amazing. Wonder why they didn't release a live single.

Anyway, I'll be sure to share my thoughts here once I've watched it.

Smooth: KOP claimed to be official, I think.
[Edited 7/7/11 10:28am]

Imaginative said:

MattyJam said:

Fuck you - you don't know the first thing about me.

I've made plenty of criticism regarding MJ's career choices, music and lifestyle in the past. I just don't engage in such conversations with TROLLS.

Again, disagreeing is NOT trolling. You ARE "engaging in conversations" with me! Here I said Jackson had great taste, but you still focus on the negative.

Learn to read properly asshole. I don't engage in critical conversations about MJ or his career with people who aren't even fans.

What's the point in me discussing how I feel Invincible is a below par album with someone who dislikes almost everything he's done post-1982??

I don't call you a troll because you disagree with me. I call you a troll because it is blatantly obvious that you are only interested in discussing Michael Jackson in a negative light. He doesn't write enough of his own songs, he wasn't prolific, his fanbase is dwindling, his posthumous songs are terrible, he hasn't had as many Billboard number ones as The Beatles yada yada yada...

You are a troll. Now fuck off.