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Are women responsible for everything that is 'wrong' with popular music? The music industry has catered to young women for as long as I can remember.
Hip-Hop in particular, has become watered down to the point of self-parody due to the increasing demand for the "club single" aimed towards the female audience.
Is it proven that women are more likely to purchase an album?
I can't think of any other reasons why pop radio would target them at every opportunity.
Is it working in their favor? Are women buying into the mainstream, diminishing the value of quality in favor of marketability?
I know its a business, but people are always complaining about pop radio, and I'm sure they always have.
You're so glam, every time I see you I wanna slam! | |
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I know one woman that's responsible. Andy is a four letter word. | |
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"Club singles" have existed since the 1970's disco days, so I'm not sure what "increasing demand" means. Jazz was dance music in the beginning, particularly swing. There's always been a market for women with acts like Bing Crosby, Frank Sinatra, Fabian, Frankie Avalon, Elvis Presley, The Beatles, Bobby Sherman, etc., even going back to the actor Rudolph Valentino. You can take a black guy to Nashville from right out of the cotton fields with bib overalls, and they will call him R&B. You can take a white guy in a pin-stripe suit who’s never seen a cotton field, and they will call him country. ~ O. B. McClinton | |
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This IS a slippery thread.
Anyway, I feel forced to post these:
60's:
Now:
[Edited 5/24/11 5:04am]  | |
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Fan hysteria is not relevant to talent though, nobody is going to rate Bieber on an artistic level with The Beatles, are they? Except maybe his army of 12 year old fans. |
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Yes! Sure, why not. Justin Bieber is on the same artistic level as the Beatles! I'm not sure what early Beatles recordings you have been listening to, but your implication is that there is a great deal of difference in terms of maturity, composition and performance qualities, from JB and the boys at similar stages of their careers. This is not the case. I'm pretty sure they didn't even have "careers" at a similar age. The Beatles and the Beatles' army grew up, and so will Justin and his fans. A Beatles-like body of work to follow may be a bit much to expect from Bieber, but he certainly has some raw talent that could head in good directions, despite the snobery of some listeners.
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Yes, it is the case.
The Beatles were playing their instruments and writing the songs even at the beginning of their career.
Bieber is not doing either of those right now. "Baby", for example was written by proven hit songwriters/producers - Tricky Stewart, The-Dream and Christina Milian. In addition to that, there was no less than TWELVE people who engineered and mixed the track.
Did I say he has no raw talent? No, I didn't. But his hype and career, RIGHT NOW, has very, very little to do with anything he has contributed.
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Goodness grief.Women are the ones buying the music so it's only natural that a good amount of it is targeted towards them. That makes sense to me and everyone else in the industry. I can't imagine this just being a recent phenomenon either so this fact had to have been in existence for some time now. | |
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I'm lookinf forward to bieber turning 18, then (if he's still selling music) he can look into the crowd and realise what a fucking wierdo he is one hip swivvel and he'll look like a paedo XD No seriously though, I don't actually know anyone r have seen any pictures of people who look over the age of 14 that actually buy his music ''now watch what you say or they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, a fanatical criminal'' | |
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and the Beatles are much more skilled at music than Bieber, But I have to agree that those psycho's in the crowd screaming and screaming and screaming to an extent you can't hear the music properly are pretty much the same as the psycho's screaming at bieber's concerts.
and no women aren't responsible for whats wrong with popular music, money grabbing wankers that want to sell records and not talent ,along with the fake pop acts are.
in reality, You don't have to cater to thier needs, If those consumers don't want to listen to something better let them sit in silence, people like that aren't worth making music for ''now watch what you say or they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, a fanatical criminal'' | |
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I thought this was a bait thread when first reading the title, but there is some truth in that young women do make up a significant portion of the music buying public. It has been speculated that that is why female contestants don't last that long on American Idol anymore.
Does 'American Idol' have lady problems?
By Lisa Respers France, CNN April 8, 2011 5:00 p.m. EDT
(CNN) -- It would be so easy to blame the teenage girls.
Check out the studio audience of "American Idol," and you will see throngs of them waving signs and screaming for their favorite contestants. They are the ones who rushed the stage Wednesday night after contestant Scotty McCreery sang an Elvis Presley song to hug him and tug on his clothes.
But were the teen female fans, with their faster-than-lightning voting fingers, to blame for the shockingly early ouster of front-runner Pia Toscano on Thursday night?
Maybe.
"The overwhelming skewing of the males lasting much longer than the females over the past couple of seasons is definitely there, and not just with the teen girls, but the older women who get really wrapped up in the show, too," said Jim Cantiello, who covers 'Idol' for MTV.
"A lot of fans and 'Idol' bloggers have done their own independent research and have noted that once texting became a big thing on 'Idol,' a lot of the females were going earlier."
The landscape is certainly looking bleak this season for the female contestants.
Of the five contestants voted off so far this season, all have been women: Ashthon Jones, Karen Rodriguez, Naima Adedapo, Thia Megia and Toscano [Casey Abrams received the lowest number of votes during the Top 11, but the judges used their one-per-season save to keep him on the show].
That leaves only two females in the Top 8 and six males.
Richard Rushfield, author of "American Idol: The Untold Story," said the show absolutely has a strong female base of fans.
"Every piece of evidence says that the 'Idol' electorate is overwhelmingly female, and women don't seem to vote for women on 'American Idol," he said. "This season has been enormous, but it's been the case every year for about four years now that the 'Idol' voting has turned into this sort of popularity contest of your favorite cute boy."
Adedapo addressed that phenomena after she and Megia were cut last week during a double elimination resulting from the judges using their save the week before for contestant Abrams.
"When it comes down to it, the reality is that more than 50 percent of the audience is little teenage girls, and once they get a crush, we're done," Adedapo told The Hollywood Reporter.
It's hard to nail down how females factored into the voting because of the veil of secrecy that covers the competition.
Fox steadfastly refuses to release voting figures, though host Ryan Seacrest will often trumpet the total millions of votes received overall in a given week.
Brian Mansfield, who blogs about the show for USA Today, said Seacrest's silence this week on the totals led him to believe that the voting totals were down and when that occurs "weird things can happen."
Mansfield said he doesn't buy into the lack of women voting for Toscano as the reason for her shocking exit, which elicited boos from the audience and a social-networking explosion of disbelief. He said he believes it is more complex than simply a lack of girl power.
"As I think back to what my readers typically said about Pia, I saw a lot of respect for her, but I didn't necessarily see a lot love for her," Mansfield said. "I think everybody pretty much assumed that she would be in the Top 3, but most of them had another favorite."
Cantiello, Rushfield and Mansfield all pointed out the judges are also culpable in Toscano being sent home as they praised her stellar singing voice each week without hammering home her lack of stage presence until it was too late.
Mansfield said the lack of judge Simon Cowell -- who went to start "Idol" competitor "The X Factor" -- also left a void in terms of a strong opinion that fans could choose to even embrace or reject in their voting.
"The judges this year are taking a completely different approach in that they are trying to nurture everybody and give that constructive criticism that a lot of the hard-core viewers of the show have said that they wanted," Mansfield said.
"The problem is that the judges' real function historically is that they don't do a whole lot for the performers; they are there to be a guide to the voters, and that's not the new function that this new panel is taking."
Glenn Gamboa has been covering "Idol" for Newsday since the show began 10 seasons ago and said Toscano's strength -- an amazing set of pipes and poise -- may have also been her downfall.
"She kind of projected the air of 'I'm really good and I'm going to be fine,' " Gamboa said. "People were like, 'OK, then I am going to vote for someone else who I think is in trouble.' "
While the theories as to why abound, one thing is for sure: So much buzz over the shocker might be a good thing for the competition seeking to return to the astronomical ratings of yesteryear.
Writing for Forbes, Cover Awards editorial director Mark Pasetsky said, "While 'American Idol' appears to have lost one of its top contestants of the season, Pia Toscano, the reality show certainly won't lose out in the ratings department thanks to all of the attention her departure is receiving in the Twitterverse."
Even two former "Idol" contestants who were themselves victims of early elimination expressed disbelief.
"I can not believe they just eliminated Pia! ReAlly..????," Tweeted Jennifer Hudson whose seventh-place finish the third season still has fans crying foul. "Long as she walked away with that voice she will be alright !! Just hate to see talent like that go!"
Rocker Chris Daughtry finished fourth in season five despite being favored to win and Tweeted "What the crap!!?? I thought Pia was THE best singer on the show this year!"
MTV's Cantiello said Toscano's departure could go either way in the ratings with fans tuning in and voting to ensure their favorite stays or some deciding that since the "best singer" is gone there's no need.
Still, the show was a wonder this week in terms of buzz, Cantiello said.
" 'Idol' needed a big moment," he said. "I think the Casey Abrams save was a good kick-start, and this is just going to make it all the more interesting."
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But none of the Beatles were even great singers and nor were they even recognized as being amazing instrumentalists at the least. | |
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I don't think so. The labels just know that if you're a guy, cute and single, they'll make you seem like such a heartthrob no matter how old you are. It went from Sinatra to Elvis to Ricky Nelson to The Beatles to the Monkees to the Rolling Stones to the Jackson 5 to David Cassidy to the Osmonds to New Edition to New Kids and so on and so on and so forth. But I wouldn't say women are responsible with what's "wrong" with popular music. I don't blame the girls screaming for Bieber because labels know what sells (like they did when the Jonas Brothers and Hanson were popular). [Edited 5/24/11 11:00am] | |
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Most of the best music is being done by women, now, so what's your point? Corporate America sells what it thinks the public wants, then forces it down our throats. Don't believe the hype. Look how well they market war, they could easily market Frank Zappa or Richard Thompson. They just don't want a cultured populace. That's how the public takes things into their own hands, which the oligarchs are against. All you others say Hell Yea!!  | |
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What's wrong with popular music anyway? Apparently someone likes it. You can take a black guy to Nashville from right out of the cotton fields with bib overalls, and they will call him R&B. You can take a white guy in a pin-stripe suit who’s never seen a cotton field, and they will call him country. ~ O. B. McClinton | |
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Metal has also gotten worse as it's gotten older so, no, I dont think the female audience is solely responsible for the fact that the art form of "popular music" has peaked & we are living in an age of diminishing returns.
Today's truest, most innovative artists are all chefs.
It's time to move on.
On another note... Bieber's as great as the Beatles? What an odd thing to say.
He strikes me as another disposable throwaway created by the industry to fill a very specific marketing void. Kids audition for that "Shaun Cassidy" role like they audition to be on the Mickey Mouse Club.
The Beatles utterly changed the way popular music was perceived by its audience. Maybe part of that is due to being in the right place at the right time, but they were not following anybody else's model for how to have a successful group.
Bieber's been a popular recording artist for, what, two years now? That would put him at "a similar point in his career" as the Beatles around the time they made Help! and Rubber Soul, by which point anyone should be able to detect massive growth in sophisitication and complexity from their early singles.
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It always make me laugh when people are in denial that The Beatles were once a boy bnad just like Justin Bieber is today. Whether or not they were writing their own stuff or not, the point is that they were all teenage heartthrobs at one point in time and marketed as such. Do you think that they would have been as big had they all been some ugly ass motherfuckers? No.
Also, I wonder about age thing, because all of the acts you listed had their peak were much younger at the time.
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The Beatles were definitely marketed as heartthrobs so they could be popular though they started off kinda rough during the Hamburg period. I think the only difference is that when things got to the point of overexposure for them, they became studio musicians and inspired by the Beach Boys decided to stay there and create non-boy band type of material and that's when they started to be seen as "game changers". But I know there's fans divided between the 1963-1965 Beatles and the 1965-1970 Beatles. | |
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Bieber's first single was released on May 18, 2009, so yes, he has been a recording artist for roughly two years.
The Beatles' first single was released on October 5, 1962. Rubber Soul was released in December, 1965, more than three years after they debuted, so you are not really being fair to the Bieb. Give him just one more year and he will easily equal, if not surpass, those silly Beatles. | |
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AC/DC are popular and they're not good looking. You can take a black guy to Nashville from right out of the cotton fields with bib overalls, and they will call him R&B. You can take a white guy in a pin-stripe suit who’s never seen a cotton field, and they will call him country. ~ O. B. McClinton | |
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HEY! HEY! Okay I know they looked homely but the Young brothers were good-looking to me. | |
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I didn't say they were mozarts, I said at least they owned the skill of playing instruments to make up for the mediocre voices ''now watch what you say or they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, a fanatical criminal'' | |
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Now you know that's a completely different crowd/demographic. | |
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Don't forget they were great songwriters and composers too. | |
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I'M NOT SAYING YOU'RE UGLY. YOU JUST HAVE BAD LUCK WHEN IT COMES TO MIRRORS AND SUNLIGHT!
RIP Dick Clark, Whitney Houston, Don Cornelius, Heavy D, and Donna Summer.  | |
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music??????????????? there responsible 4 everything that has gone wrong in the world!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!starting with eve!!!she forced adam 2 eat that apple!! now look!!!becuz of her the world is messed up big time!! women!! tuttuttuttuttut Dave Is Nuttier Than A Can Of Planters Peanuts...(Ottensen) | |
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The soul of a woman was created below. | |
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I stand corrected!!
I am coming back to this thread in one year. Then we'll know.
The problem with Bieber is NOT that he has a lot of teenage girls in his audience. His problem is, he sucks donkey balls in hell. | |
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Two words: Boy Bands.
I rest my case.
You're so glam, every time I see you I wanna slam! | |
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