Timmy84 said:

TD3 said:

"Are the cynical powers that be" responsible for pimping the lowest common denominator?

Are the powers that be responsible for the mainstream nitpicking of artists that don't have that much power of ruining their favorite type of music?

Those three questions would be way more accurate than the title of this thread.

Now that we have cleared it all up....

TD3 said:

Timmy84 said:

Are the powers that be responsible for the mainstream nitpicking of artists that don't have that much power of ruining their favorite type of music?

Those three questions would be way more accurate than the title of this thread.

Now that we have cleared it all up....

TonyVanDam said:

JoeTyler said:

This IS a slippery thread.

Anyway, I feel forced to post these:

60's:

Now:

[Edited 5/24/11 5:04am]

You blame white girls?!?

white men (and women) are guilty of EVERYTHING. Hell I'm glad I'm not 100% white...

JoeTyler said:

TonyVanDam said:

You blame white girls?!?

white men (and women) are guilty of EVERYTHING. Hell I'm glad I'm not 100% white...

People of all races are guilty of something.

vainandy said:

Unholyalliance said:

Something about your post strikes me as weird and then I realized something:

In your post how is disco taken into account? Especially since there was a HUGE anti-disco movement back in the late 70s. Some say that the anti-disco ferver was fueled by anti-black, female, and homosexual sentiments of the times. Around that time more heavy metal bands came around and heavy metal music is reflects a much more conservative attitude than that of disco.

The "Disco Sucks" movement was fueled by a bunch of anti-black and anti-gay assholes. But if you look back at all the old clips, those were mostly white men blowing up those disco records in that baseball field. As for black guys, I never personally heard a black guy badmouth disco until the shit hop era began. The reason I got into funk in the first place is because in 1980, when disco was declared officially "dead" on white radio, I didn't like the type of music I was hearing on the white stations. I went through the dial and found three stations that were playing things like "A Lover's Paradise" by Change, "Firecracker" by Mass Production, "Bounce, Rock, Skate, Roll" by Vaughn Mason and Crew, "Rough Rider" by Lakeside, etc. at the time and thought I had found the last three remaining disco stations. Well, they weren't disco stations. They were black stations and what I was hearing was funk which sounded exactly like disco.

I kept those three stations on my dial and took the white ones off my dial and the funk that was being played on those stations gradually evolved a little more with the times but still had that danceable feel that disco had on up until 1985 when folks like Shitney came on the scene, then Freddie Jackson, then Anita Baker, then Mikki Howard, and the jams got more scarce and eventually went totally underground. Rap, which had came out during the disco scene was a fast party genre and when the funk groups started dying off in the mid to late 1980s, rap took the place and filled the "fast music" void and continued with that disco dance pace until it slowed down, stripped down, got "gansta", and turned into shit hop. That's when I first heard a black person badmouth disco, but never before.

As for gay being "cool" or "uncool" before, during, or after the disco era, me, and I'm sure a lot of other folks my age that loved disco music as well, didn't even know that gay people were associated with the genre. All we knew was, the music sounded great and we loved it. Even when the gay images were flashed right in front of my face, I didn't notice it until the disco haters started pointing them out and using them to turn people against disco. I'm sure a lot of disco haters were previously disco lovers until the disco haters pointed out those things because like Gloria Gaynor said...."If you hate disco so much, then where did you get the records to blow up". A lot of people didn't even know that gay people were associated with disco until we saw the documentaries in the 1990s about it. I know when I was growing up, I was never around any gay people and I associated them all as listening to nerdy and dorky things like classical music and show tunes and before the disco era, a lot of them were. If I had known all along that they were some cool ass motherfuckers listening to some badass disco, I would have come out of the closet years earlier. Disco is what got us away from being considered "uncool" because it was such a hip, cool ass, fast paced genre that so many straight people loved also. They didn't know we could party like that. Hell, I myself didn't know we could party like that until it was exposed that we were responsible for disco. Disco changed a lot of people's attitudes about us but if a person hates us to begin with, nothing is going to change their attitude.

.

.

.

[Edited 5/25/11 8:06am]

I agree, but 00's males (both gay AND straight) are just soft and weak, in EVERY aspect. Pre-1990 generation all the way!

Timmy84 said:

JoeTyler said:

white men (and women) are guilty of EVERYTHING. Hell I'm glad I'm not 100% white...

People of all races are guilty of something.

wrong!

JoeTyler said:

Timmy84 said:

People of all races are guilty of something.

wrong!

Race card-pulling summa...

JoeTyler said:

vainandy said:

The "Disco Sucks" movement was fueled by a bunch of anti-black and anti-gay assholes. But if you look back at all the old clips, those were mostly white men blowing up those disco records in that baseball field. As for black guys, I never personally heard a black guy badmouth disco until the shit hop era began. The reason I got into funk in the first place is because in 1980, when disco was declared officially "dead" on white radio, I didn't like the type of music I was hearing on the white stations. I went through the dial and found three stations that were playing things like "A Lover's Paradise" by Change, "Firecracker" by Mass Production, "Bounce, Rock, Skate, Roll" by Vaughn Mason and Crew, "Rough Rider" by Lakeside, etc. at the time and thought I had found the last three remaining disco stations. Well, they weren't disco stations. They were black stations and what I was hearing was funk which sounded exactly like disco.

I kept those three stations on my dial and took the white ones off my dial and the funk that was being played on those stations gradually evolved a little more with the times but still had that danceable feel that disco had on up until 1985 when folks like Shitney came on the scene, then Freddie Jackson, then Anita Baker, then Mikki Howard, and the jams got more scarce and eventually went totally underground. Rap, which had came out during the disco scene was a fast party genre and when the funk groups started dying off in the mid to late 1980s, rap took the place and filled the "fast music" void and continued with that disco dance pace until it slowed down, stripped down, got "gansta", and turned into shit hop. That's when I first heard a black person badmouth disco, but never before.

As for gay being "cool" or "uncool" before, during, or after the disco era, me, and I'm sure a lot of other folks my age that loved disco music as well, didn't even know that gay people were associated with the genre. All we knew was, the music sounded great and we loved it. Even when the gay images were flashed right in front of my face, I didn't notice it until the disco haters started pointing them out and using them to turn people against disco. I'm sure a lot of disco haters were previously disco lovers until the disco haters pointed out those things because like Gloria Gaynor said...."If you hate disco so much, then where did you get the records to blow up". A lot of people didn't even know that gay people were associated with disco until we saw the documentaries in the 1990s about it. I know when I was growing up, I was never around any gay people and I associated them all as listening to nerdy and dorky things like classical music and show tunes and before the disco era, a lot of them were. If I had known all along that they were some cool ass motherfuckers listening to some badass disco, I would have come out of the closet years earlier. Disco is what got us away from being considered "uncool" because it was such a hip, cool ass, fast paced genre that so many straight people loved also. They didn't know we could party like that. Hell, I myself didn't know we could party like that until it was exposed that we were responsible for disco. Disco changed a lot of people's attitudes about us but if a person hates us to begin with, nothing is going to change their attitude.

.

.

.

[Edited 5/25/11 8:06am]

I agree, but 00's males (both gay AND straight) are just soft and weak, in EVERY aspect. Pre-1990 generation all the way!

I'm not a pussy.

I was born in the wrong generation though.

Timmy84 said:

JoeTyler said:

I agree, but 00's males (both gay AND straight) are just soft and weak, in EVERY aspect. Pre-1990 generation all the way!

I'm not a pussy.

I was born in the wrong generation though.

Dude I miss the 60's. Me and the rest of the gang were the real deal. I miss those days...

JoeTyler said:

Timmy84 said:

I'm not a pussy.

I was born in the wrong generation though.

Dude I miss the 60's. Me and the rest of the gang were the real deal. I miss those days...

Wait... how OLD are you, man?

Timmy84 said:

JoeTyler said:

Dude I miss the 60's. Me and the rest of the gang were the real deal. I miss those days...

Wait... how OLD are you, man?

shhh...

(I'll tell you my secret):

"Please allow me to introduce myself
Im a man of wealth and taste
Ive been around for a long, long year
Stole many a mans soul and faith
And I was round when jesus christ
Had his moment of doubt and pain
Made damn sure that pilate
Washed his hands and sealed his fate
Pleased to meet you
Hope you guess my name
But what's puzzling you
Is the nature of my game
I stuck around st. petersburg
When I saw it was a time for a change
Killed the czar and his ministers
Anastasia screamed in vain
I rode a tank
Held a generals rank
When the blitzkrieg raged
And the bodies stank
Pleased to meet you
Hope you guess my name, oh yeah
Ah, what's puzzling you
Is the nature of my game, oh yeah"

...

lol I'm 26 and YES my generation sucks

JoeTyler said:

Timmy84 said:

Wait... how OLD are you, man?

shhh...

(I'll tell you my secret):

"Please allow me to introduce myself
Im a man of wealth and taste
Ive been around for a long, long year
Stole many a mans soul and faith
And I was round when jesus christ
Had his moment of doubt and pain
Made damn sure that pilate
Washed his hands and sealed his fate
Pleased to meet you
Hope you guess my name
But what's puzzling you
Is the nature of my game
I stuck around st. petersburg
When I saw it was a time for a change
Killed the czar and his ministers
Anastasia screamed in vain
I rode a tank
Held a generals rank
When the blitzkrieg raged
And the bodies stank
Pleased to meet you
Hope you guess my name, oh yeah
Ah, what's puzzling you
Is the nature of my game, oh yeah"

...

lol I'm 26 and YES my generation sucks

Got cha. But yep it does suck.

vainandy said:

As for gay being "cool" or "uncool" before, during, or after the disco era, me, and I'm sure a lot of other folks my age that loved disco music as well, didn't even know that gay people were associated with the genre. All we knew was, the music sounded great and we loved it. Even when the gay images were flashed right in front of my face, I didn't notice it until the disco haters started pointing them out and using them to turn people against disco. I'm sure a lot of disco haters were previously disco lovers until the disco haters pointed out those things because like Gloria Gaynor said...."If you hate disco so much, then where did you get the records to blow up". A lot of people didn't even know that gay people were associated with disco until we saw the documentaries in the 1990s about it. I know when I was growing up, I was never around any gay people and I associated them all as listening to nerdy and dorky things like classical music and show tunes and before the disco era, a lot of them were. If I had known all along that they were some cool ass motherfuckers listening to some badass disco, I would have come out of the closet years earlier.

lol Where did you grow up? My mom is a big clubber and she always told me that the best clubs were the gay clubs since those had the best music. She said one of the places she used to frequent all the time was Paradise Garage and they also used to play a lot of house music there as well, including disco back in the 70s.

vainandy said:

I have never seen guys whose tastes are 100% completely slow unless they were gay and even the gay guys who didn't like fast jams were considered "uncool" and "dorky".

Wait. I thought most gay guys prefer fast dance music???

Unholyalliance said:

vainandy said:

Shit hop came along and things became the exact opposite. Guys got all into it and it was as slow and rhythmless as a damn Lawrence Welk record. I have never seen guys whose tastes are 100% completely slow unless they were gay and even the gay guys who didn't like fast jams were considered "uncool" and "dorky". But shit hop just changed everything and now guys have the musical tastes with the tempo of old women that used to watch "Murder She Wrote". Since comparing the shit hoppers to dorky "waldos" isn't phasing them, maybe I'll have to get even bolder and start comparing them to the type of gay men before the disco era that were all into the classical shit. Hell, that was more like a "fag" than someone "gay". And considering how homophobic they are, "fag" would be perfect to compare them to.

Something about your post strikes me as weird and then I realized something:

In your post how is disco taken into account? Especially since there was a HUGE anti-disco movement back in the late 70s. Some say that the anti-disco ferver was fueled by anti-black, female, and homosexual sentiments of the times. Around that time more heavy metal bands came around and heavy metal music is reflects a much more conservative attitude than that of disco.

I'm only 20, and even I know about the 'disco sucks' bumper sticker lol

vainandy said:

The "Disco Sucks" movement was fueled by a bunch of anti-black and anti-gay assholes. But if you look back at all the old clips, those were mostly white men blowing up those disco records in that baseball field. As for black guys, I never personally heard a black guy badmouth disco until the shit hop era began. The reason I got into funk in the first place is because in 1980, when disco was declared officially "dead" on white radio, I didn't like the type of music I was hearing on the white stations. I went through the dial and found three stations that were playing things like "A Lover's Paradise" by Change, "Firecracker" by Mass Production, "Bounce, Rock, Skate, Roll" by Vaughn Mason and Crew, "Rough Rider" by Lakeside, etc. at the time and thought I had found the last three remaining disco stations. Well, they weren't disco stations. They were black stations and what I was hearing was funk which sounded exactly like disco.

The funny thing is, disco never went away. It just evolved into different forms. Local stations here in NYC(WKTU, KISS & WBLS) called it 'dance music' around 1981.

uPtoWnNY said:

vainandy said:

The "Disco Sucks" movement was fueled by a bunch of anti-black and anti-gay assholes. But if you look back at all the old clips, those were mostly white men blowing up those disco records in that baseball field. As for black guys, I never personally heard a black guy badmouth disco until the shit hop era began. The reason I got into funk in the first place is because in 1980, when disco was declared officially "dead" on white radio, I didn't like the type of music I was hearing on the white stations. I went through the dial and found three stations that were playing things like "A Lover's Paradise" by Change, "Firecracker" by Mass Production, "Bounce, Rock, Skate, Roll" by Vaughn Mason and Crew, "Rough Rider" by Lakeside, etc. at the time and thought I had found the last three remaining disco stations. Well, they weren't disco stations. They were black stations and what I was hearing was funk which sounded exactly like disco.

The funny thing is, disco never went away. It just evolved into different forms. Local stations here in NYC(WKTU, KISS & WBLS) called it 'dance music' around 1981.

Yep,disco never really died.They just changed the name to "dance music".The disco sound can also be heard in other genres like freestyle,electronica,etc.

kitbradley said:

vainandy said:

Wait. I thought most gay guys prefer fast dance music???

Not all of them. The gay community in terms of the way they listen to music are not that monolithic in their choices. Some are into rap, metal, punk, alternative, soul, gospel, R&B, jazz, etc. There's actually a category for artists who are gay and into punk, metal, etc., called "queercore". So yeah not all of them prefer "fast dance music".

Timmy84 said:

kitbradley said:

Wait. I thought most gay guys prefer fast dance music???

Not all of them. The gay community in terms of the way they listen to music are not that monolithic in their choices. Some are into rap, metal, punk, alternative, soul, gospel, R&B, jazz, etc. There's actually a category for artists who are gay and into punk, metal, etc., called "queercore". So yeah not all of them prefer "fast dance music".

The "term" Popular Music is a BROAD field in the many eras we speak about. WHat was popular music in the 70's (Billy Joel,Neil Diamond,EltonJohn,DavidBowie,Stevie Wonder,Paul Simon) can not in all honesty be compared too POPULAR MUSIC of today, sorry, its got NOTHING to do with women buying or not buying, or how old we all are, its a freaking level of talent and what they came from. Im tired of granting the old "good and bad in all times" card everytime there is a discussion like this, because THATS not what is the topic, if you can honestly sit back and tell me that lineup of POPULAR against todays lineup of Justin Beiber and whomever is a real comparison, then please pass that joint your smoking.

^ They don't deserve comparisons. Hell comparing them to other artists doesn't make the pop stars of today's generation any hopeful to last past 10 years.

MickyDolenz said:

What's wrong with popular music anyway? Apparently someone likes it. A record label is a business, and the only goal of a business is to make money.

This is pretty much it in a nut shell... it has nothing to do with women

Timmy84 said:

JoeTyler said:

lol I'm 26 and YES my generation sucks

Got cha. But yep it does suck.

That's exactly the best value of your generation

mjscarousal said:

MickyDolenz said:

What's wrong with popular music anyway? Apparently someone likes it. A record label is a business, and the only goal of a business is to make money.

This is pretty much it in a nut shell... it has nothing to do with women

Oh, come on guys. You all know: 'She made me do it'

dJJ said:

Timmy84 said:

Got cha. But yep it does suck.

That's exactly the best value of your generation

Excuse you?!

mjscarousal said:

MickyDolenz said:

What's wrong with popular music anyway? Apparently someone likes it. A record label is a business, and the only goal of a business is to make money.

This is pretty much it in a nut shell... it has nothing to do with women

This is an ignorant statement.

Nothing to do with women?

jUSTIN Biebb wants to speak with you

minneapolisFunq said:

mjscarousal said:

This is pretty much it in a nut shell... it has nothing to do with women

This is an ignorant statement.

Nothing to do with women?

jUSTIN Biebb wants to speak with you

Mr. Bieber's success is entirely warranted due to his extreme talent. The fact that he has the ability to make thirteen year old girls' panties soaking wet is just a happy coincidence.

dJJ said:

Oh, come on guys. You all know: 'She made me do it'

rialb said:

minneapolisFunq said:

This is an ignorant statement.

Nothing to do with women?

jUSTIN Biebb wants to speak with you

Mr. Bieber's success is entirely warranted due to his extreme talent. The fact that he has the ability to make thirteen year old girls' panties soaking wet is just a happy coincidence.

I actually credit his label...

Without it (and the help of Usher for trying to make him a whiter version of himself lol), he wouldn't have been as popular as he is now. Naturally with the promotion they gave him, Bieber was going to get success anyway.

I'm not even bothered by it anymore. It's something that happens every decade.

Getting back to the original question posited on this this thread, the answer is....yes! And no.

Let me explain.

Since the beginning of recorded music, women (mostly young women) have been targeted by record companies for buying tons of music, because they make up the most devoted fanbase and have the most income. They also tend to identify much of their self-identity through music. (Does this mean that men and boys don't identify themselves through music? Of course not. They love music as much as women do, but they also have other outlets for self-expression, particularly sports.) But it's through music that women socialize with each other, and with men, whether it's sending love notes with their favorite lyrics, or dragging their reluctant boyfriends on the dance floor. Everyone is complaining about Justin Bieber being so hugely popular right now, particularly with girls, but he is no different from the Jonas Brothers who preceded him, or the Backstreet Boys, Nsync, New Kids on the Block, New Edition, Shaun Cassidy, Leif Garrett, Bobby Sherman, the Jackson 5, the Beatles, Elvis, Frankie Lymon, or even Frank Sinatra.

And the record companies have always been in the business of making as much money as possible from the music buying public, so they gear their A&R departments to find the most potentially lucrative music product they can find, which usually means a bunch of bland pop singers singing simple love songs and party anthems, because that's what appeals most to their targeted demographic (young females). They don't target males as much because their tastes are diverse, usually not radio friendly, and oftentimes rather dark in nature, which is not good for selling tons of albums and related stuff. There has always been a tilt towards female friendly pop music, but historically it has been balanced out a bit by having a few male skewing genres that sell enough to bring buyers into record stores. However, there have been times which have been overly female skewing (like the late 50's, mid 70's, late 80's, late 90's, and now) where it has been difficult to find any male skewing acts on the charts, and they have usually been followed by a period of heavily male skewing acts as a backlash to the female friendly pop music. Coincidentially, those times in which pop music was heavily male skewing have also been the most interesting musically (late 60's, early 70's, early 90's), as they launched adventorus music not previously heard in the mainstream (acid rock, hard rock, metal, funk, punk, alternative, grunge, hip-hop). But unlike most pop music phenomenons, which were top-down created by record labels and their teams of writers and producers, the male skewing acts have historically been created from the bottom-up, started by daring acts and pushed into the mainstream by raving fans. But once the major labels catch on to these groups, they create their own watered down acts to be more palatable to mainstream radio and music outlets.

Women can't download.