badujunkie said:

"i saw you kicking dirt in my eye"

"doesn't matter if you're black or white"

"you were my friend"

"there are people dying"

riiiighhht...deep shit

His lyrics are and were always simple and pretentious free. Does it only matter now that you dislike the songs?

robertlove said:

I think my main problem with some of the tracks on dangerous are the intro's, they are just too long. If tracks like Will you be there and Black and White take ages to start. Without the intro, i like them more.

That said, the only track i skip is "Heal the world"...i really can't stand that one....including the way too long intro.

By the way, after all these years, i think the best track is "Dangerous" itself.

I can't either. I have hated Heal The World from day one.

This album started my love for mike , it was played on rides to grandma's house.

i always felt this album was special for several reasons.

1 " it was his last album to have real instruments on them before pretty much everthing was programmed , as if its a mix of pro tools and such vs live instruments

2 it was his last album before becomming pernamently scarred by trials and acusations. it was about being in love with LMP ( at least thats how i interpreted it ) and cant let her get away.

feels like it was recorded and written at a time when he was happy , and looking back on it , it seems that it was the last time he was able to smile and feel free before 1993 happend.

Who else felt that mike kinda didnt give a f any more aboutt how people saw him and kinda embraced his eccentricities ? the surgical masks etc , still hanging with kids

It's FAR from his "worst".

Still one of my all-time favorite albums by any artist of all time.

motownlover said:

This album started my love for mike , it was played on rides to grandma's house.

i always felt this album was special for several reasons.

1 " it was his last album to have real instruments on them before pretty much everthing was programmed , as if its a mix of pro tools and such vs live instruments

2 it was his last album before becomming pernamently scarred by trials and acusations. it was about being in love with LMP ( at least thats how i interpreted it ) and cant let her get away.

feels like it was recorded and written at a time when he was happy , and looking back on it , it seems that it was the last time he was able to smile and feel free before 1993 happend.

Who else felt that mike kinda didnt give a f any more aboutt how people saw him and kinda embraced his eccentricities ? the surgical masks etc , still hanging with kids

Real instruments? I had a feeling this was his first album where most of the tracks came from one synthesizer...don't have the liner notes anymore, but this is how i remember it.

Timmy84 said:

It's FAR from his "worst".

Still one of my all-time favorite albums by any artist of all time.

It is! Great album.

robertlove said:

motownlover said:

This album started my love for mike , it was played on rides to grandma's house.

i always felt this album was special for several reasons.

1 " it was his last album to have real instruments on them before pretty much everthing was programmed , as if its a mix of pro tools and such vs live instruments

2 it was his last album before becomming pernamently scarred by trials and acusations. it was about being in love with LMP ( at least thats how i interpreted it ) and cant let her get away.

feels like it was recorded and written at a time when he was happy , and looking back on it , it seems that it was the last time he was able to smile and feel free before 1993 happend.

Who else felt that mike kinda didnt give a f any more aboutt how people saw him and kinda embraced his eccentricities ? the surgical masks etc , still hanging with kids

Real instruments? I had a feeling this was his first album where most of the tracks came from one synthesizer...don't have the liner notes anymore, but this is how i remember it.

its still a instrument , right ? i think its 50 50 when it comes to programmed and 'live and perhaps 60% programmed. But it got worse over the years since earthsong is the only song with real drums on history and was written in like 1990 .

In my eyes it was a transition

motownlover said:

robertlove said:

Real instruments? I had a feeling this was his first album where most of the tracks came from one synthesizer...don't have the liner notes anymore, but this is how i remember it.

its still a instrument , right ? i think its 50 50 when it comes to programmed and 'live and perhaps 60% programmed. But it got worse over the years since earthsong is the only song with real drums on history and was written in like 1990 .

In my eyes it was a transition

yeah, you're right...i actually meant programmed. you're probably right, but for me, this is the album where it was all programmed. (accept for a guitar here and there)

I thought "Stop Exisiting and Start living" was pretty deep...personally these songs are deep and meaningful to me compared to some songs about love/sex/drug/whatever is a beautiful thing and being in love is so great blah blah blah...

motownlover said:

2 it was his last album before becomming pernamently scarred by trials and acusations.

feels like it was recorded and written at a time when he was happy , and looking back on it , it seems that it was the last time he was able to smile and feel free before 1993 happend.

Who else felt that mike kinda didnt give a f any more aboutt how people saw him and kinda embraced his eccentricities ? the surgical masks etc , still hanging with kids

That is so true. Even though I think he was already starting to lose pure "happiness" after Thriller due to the pressure and tabloid (because of the song Leave Me Alone in Bad album maybe), it really sucks that after the accusation it's so obvious how his music was even more focused on his frustration. Scream, Stranger in Moscow, Money, 2bad, Is It Scary, Unbreakable...ugh I always wonder what could've happenend with his music in terms of theme and direction if the 93 accusation didn't hit him

And I love and hate how stubborn he was...

[Edited 5/20/11 9:38am]

I haven't listened to the whole album, but I LOVE "Can't Let Her Get Away."

The whole album is flawless to me except "Heal The World" which I pretty much always skip (I don't dislike it, I'm just rarely in the mood to hear it), and "Gone Too Soon" which I skip maybe half of the time. The entire rest of the album I could literally listen to over and over and over. Love it.

Unholyalliance said:

badujunkie said:

"i saw you kicking dirt in my eye"

"doesn't matter if you're black or white"

"you were my friend"

"there are people dying"

riiiighhht...deep shit

His lyrics are and were always simple and pretentious free. Does it only matter now that you dislike the songs?

just funny. i could see you saying "Stranger in Moscow," "Is it Scary," "Ghosts," "Money" being 'too deep'...but not these standard sentimental drivel which in my opinion he is (was) usually above

It is like mr rock, mr rnb, miss gospel and miss classical having an orgy in the pop music mansion

Yes this is my favourite album by MJ and one of my favourites of all time. definetly a classic

badujunkie said:

Unholyalliance said:

His lyrics are and were always simple and pretentious free. Does it only matter now that you dislike the songs?

just funny. i could see you saying "Stranger in Moscow," "Is it Scary," "Ghosts," "Money" being 'too deep'...but not these standard sentimental drivel which in my opinion he is (was) usually above

They seem to be pretty straightforward. Also, I don't know why you think that he was about 'sentimental drivel.' His music was full of it. Well, looking back at his catalog it seems that he was going to go in that direction eventually. Maybe it's only drivel to you, because you don't like it. I don't feel that way.

I fukken love Will You Be There and Heal The World. They are some of my favorite songs on the album. Like I said, it's just 2deep4u.

The two songs I really dislike on the album are Why You Wanna Trip On Me and Keep The Faith. UGH! I skip over them every time.

Unholyalliance said:

badujunkie said:

just funny. i could see you saying "Stranger in Moscow," "Is it Scary," "Ghosts," "Money" being 'too deep'...but not these standard sentimental drivel which in my opinion he is (was) usually above

They seem to be pretty straightforward. Also, I don't know why you think that he was about 'sentimental drivel.' His music was full of it. Well, looking back at his catalog it seems that he was going to go in that direction eventually. Maybe it's only drivel to you, because you don't like it. I don't feel that way.

I fukken love Will You Be There and Heal The World. They are some of my favorite songs on the album. Like I said, it's just 2deep4u.

The two songs I really dislike on the album are Why You Wanna Trip On Me and Keep The Faith. UGH! I skip over them every time.

that's why i don't like invincible overall - sentimental drivel

HISTORY was sentimental but totally sophisticated, to me Earth Song and HIStory and the like (even Childhood) are way deeper, more substantial than the Dangerous ballads

and WHY YOU WANNA TRIP is 2 DEEP 4 U!

novabrkr said:

It seems to have been tracked still with the vinyl and tape formats in mind. It was a double album on vinyl and the tape was a pretty long one, but it's divided into two different halves in any case. The first half is the new jack swing side and the second the more rock / pop side (although there was quite a lot of gospel-influenced stuff on it too).

The only track that doesn't quite fit on the first half is "Heal The World" and the only track that sounds a bit out of place on the second half is "Dangerous". If you switch them around, I think the "logic" of the record becomes more apparent. I'd like to lull myself into believing they were that way around originally.

(side note: despite its length the record doesn't have a love ballad on it!)

Very true...I remember basically both sides being about the lenth of a full album..almost like having a double album on one cassette. Jam - Heal The World is like pt. 1, Black Or White - Dangerous are pt.2

Unholyalliance said:

badujunkie said:

just funny. i could see you saying "Stranger in Moscow," "Is it Scary," "Ghosts," "Money" being 'too deep'...but not these standard sentimental drivel which in my opinion he is (was) usually above

They seem to be pretty straightforward. Also, I don't know why you think that he was about 'sentimental drivel.' His music was full of it. Well, looking back at his catalog it seems that he was going to go in that direction eventually. Maybe it's only drivel to you, because you don't like it. I don't feel that way.

I fukken love Will You Be There and Heal The World. They are some of my favorite songs on the album. Like I said, it's just 2deep4u.

The two songs I really dislike on the album are Why You Wanna Trip On Me and Keep The Faith. UGH! I skip over them every time.

"Why you wanna trip on me" rocks! that beat

Unholyalliance said:

badujunkie said:

just funny. i could see you saying "Stranger in Moscow," "Is it Scary," "Ghosts," "Money" being 'too deep'...but not these standard sentimental drivel which in my opinion he is (was) usually above

They seem to be pretty straightforward. Also, I don't know why you think that he was about 'sentimental drivel.' His music was full of it. Well, looking back at his catalog it seems that he was going to go in that direction eventually. Maybe it's only drivel to you, because you don't like it. I don't feel that way.

I fukken love Will You Be There and Heal The World. They are some of my favorite songs on the album. Like I said, it's just 2deep4u.

The two songs I really dislike on the album are Why You Wanna Trip On Me and Keep The Faith. UGH! I skip over them every time.

Will You Be There was really too deep and heavy for me at first. But I love it now. I don't have a religion but songs like this make me think about something bigger than ourselves...

Hold Me
Like The River Jordan
And I Will Then Say To Thee
You Are My Friend

Carry Me
Like You Are My Brother
Love Me Like A Mother
Will You Be There?

Weary
Tell Me Will You Hold Me
When Wrong, Will You Scold Me
When Lost Will You Find Me?

But They Told Me
A Man Should Be Faithful
And Walk When Not Able
And Fight Till The End
But I'm Only Human

Everyone's Taking Control Of Me
Seems That The World's
Got A Role For Me
I'm So Confused
Will You Show To Me
You'll Be There For Me
And Care Enough To Bear Me

(Hold Me)
(Lay Your Head Lowly)
(Softly Then Boldly)
(Carry Me There)

(Lead Me)
(Love Me And Feed Me)
(Kiss Me And Free Me)
(I Will Feel Blessed)

(Carry)
(Carry Me Boldly)
(Lift Me Up Slowly)
(Carry Me There)

(Save Me)
(Heal Me And Bathe Me)
(Softly You Say To Me)
(I Will Be There)

(Lift Me)
(Lift Me Up Slowly)
(Carry Me Boldly)
(Show Me You Care)

(Hold Me)
(Lay Your Head Lowly)
(Softly Then Boldly)
(Carry Me There)

(Need Me)
(Love Me And Feed Me)
(Kiss Me And Free Me)
(I Will Feel Blessed)

[Spoken]
In Our Darkest Hour
In My Deepest Despair
Will You Still Care?
Will You Be There?
In My Trials
And My Tribulations
Through Our Doubts
And Frustrations
In My Violence
In My Turbulence
Through My Fear
And My Confessions
In My Anguish And My Pain
Through My Joy And My Sorrow
In The Promise Of Another Tomorrow
I'll Never Let You Part
For You're Always In My Heart.

badujunkie said:

that's why i don't like invincible overall - sentimental drivel

Yeah I know, because 5 songs out of 14 is already more than half of the album.

badujunkie said:

HISTORY was sentimental but totally sophisticated, to me Earth Song and HIStory and the like (even Childhood) are way deeper, more substantial than the Dangerous ballads

Heal The World is simple enough for everyone such as children and the whatnot. Even though I like the song I don't have it on heavy rotation though. That being said, it's kind of idealistic, but we get the point. It's not drowning pretentiousness in trying to be super deep, which I like tbqh. I rather that that sheer simplicity rather than some rich as fuck person telling me that I should try imagining what it's like to have nothing in order to make a more ideal world. Like fuck that hypocritcal bullshit. That's more of a slap in the face to me.

Though I did always find it funny that Michael did these songs about saving the planet, but still driving around in a SUV.

badujunkie said:

and WHY YOU WANNA TRIP is 2 DEEP 4 U!

lol It totally is.

Unholyalliance said:

badujunkie said:

that's why i don't like invincible overall - sentimental drivel

Yeah I know, because 5 songs out of 14 is already more than half of the album.

Heal The World is simple enough for everyone such as children and the whatnot. Even though I like the song I don't have it on heavy rotation though. That being said, it's kind of idealistic, but we get the point. It's not drowning pretentiousness in trying to be super deep, which I like tbqh. I rather that that sheer simplicity rather than some rich as fuck person telling me that I should try imagining what it's like to have nothing in order to make a more ideal world. Like fuck that hypocritcal bullshit. That's more of a slap in the face to me.

Though I did always find it funny that Michael did these songs about saving the planet, but still driving around in a SUV.

badujunkie said:

and WHY YOU WANNA TRIP is 2 DEEP 4 U!

lol It totally is.

that's all celebrities though...what you realize after awhile is that all 'famous' musicians are driven by ego, fame, money, and popularity just like any other capitalist. the save the world stuff is just rhetoric. that's probably why i prefer his 'shake your groove thing' stuff over the 'i care about the world' schtick. not just him - same goes for all my other favorite artists who support ' a cause '

Unholyalliance said:

Though I did always find it funny that Michael did these songs about saving the planet, but still driving around in a SUV.

badujunkie said:

and WHY YOU WANNA TRIP is 2 DEEP 4 U!

lol It totally is.

I may look like a total idiot now, but what do you mean? What's wrong with driving around in a SUV? What makes it worse than the other type of cars? Or do you mean that he was supposed to ride a bike? Please explain.

SUV's consume a lot of fuel and pollute the environment quite considerably, apparently.

That's just one of the uglier sides of Michael's life style. He was still of that generation of entertainers that thought they'd have to spend their money on all kinds of unnecessary bullshit. It's hard to forget that scene from the Bashir documentary that has him buying all that tasteless luxury crap at the mall. Granted, he gave a lot of money away to charity as well, but he really didn't seem to put a lot of thought on what he'd put his money into. We may now roll our eyes at MTV shows like "Cribs" or "My Super Sweet Sixteen", but MJ really went overboard with that thing.

I understand that original comment emphasized the environmental aspect, but I just see it as a part of his expenditure habits.

novabrkr said:

SUV's consume a lot of fuel and pollute the environment quite considerably, apparently.

That's just one of the uglier sides of Michael's life style. He was still of that generation of entertainers that thought they'd have to spend their money on all kinds of unnecessary bullshit. It's hard to forget that scene from the Bashir documentary that has him buying all that tasteless luxury crap at the mall. Granted, he gave a lot of money away to charity as well, but he really didn't seem to put a lot of thought on what he'd put his money into. We may now roll our eyes at MTV shows like "Cribs" or "My Super Sweet Sixteen", but MJ really went overboard with that thing.

I understand that original comment emphasized the environmental aspect, but I just see it as a part of his expenditure habits.

Thanks for the explanation.

His shopping was overboard. Maybe he felt that he was helping enough and had the right to spend something for himself, even though I also don't understand why he'd wanna buy those things. But on the other hand, I can't say a thing cause even though I really do live as ecologically as possible and hardly buy any unnecessarry things, I am also not giving anything to charity, so i don't feel entitled to criticize him.

Not much to add to this thread, except that Dangerous is FAR from being his worst album!!

"She Drives Me Wild" is the funkiest thing on there, even with that unnecessary rap towards the end. it's a straight up groove!

dangerous album kicks ass!!!

novabrkr said:

SUV's consume a lot of fuel and pollute the environment quite considerably, apparently.

That's just one of the uglier sides of Michael's life style. He was still of that generation of entertainers that thought they'd have to spend their money on all kinds of unnecessary bullshit. It's hard to forget that scene from the Bashir documentary that has him buying all that tasteless luxury crap at the mall. Granted, he gave a lot of money away to charity as well, but he really didn't seem to put a lot of thought on what he'd put his money into. We may now roll our eyes at MTV shows like "Cribs" or "My Super Sweet Sixteen", but MJ really went overboard with that thing.

I understand that original comment emphasized the environmental aspect, but I just see it as a part of his expenditure habits.

I used to hate on those shows and act like MJ is better than them but also realized by the end of the decade a year or two before his death that his materialistic side nearly made him lose everything he worked hard for, and was including neverland, though with good intentions, the place being symbolic of what almost took it all away, his kids included. Though he deserved to treat himself too and did so many amazing things with his money, sometimes I feel the overkill had really hurt him in the end.

[Edited 5/21/11 19:30pm]

I like it a lot, but to be fair the "critics and the music biz" hardly recognize it. Not only it has the bad rep for "being kicked off the #1 spot by Nirvana", most of its singles are forgotten and it doesn't really appear on best of lists. As much as I love to give the Number Ones compliation a spin, I hate how the concept itself made it seem Dangerous is MJ's least important album, even though in many countries it did as well as Bad!

Dangerous is my all-time favorite album by anyone. I love all the songs, the lyrics, the whole album is amazing. It has my favorite MJ song "Give in to Me" and also some of my other favorites like "She Drives Me Wild" "Can't Let Her Get Away" "Keep the Faith" and "Why You Wanna Trip on Me". I try to find something wrong with this album but I can't. This was MJ's peak album, not Thriller, not Bad. This is it (no pun intended). The only MJ album that can come close to touching this is Off The Wall, and thats not even close.

To me this was the beginning of the end of the MJ I grew up with. I just did not think his voice lent well to new jack beats. I was used to lush porchestration or clean clasic production by Q and company. Then the grunting and aggressiveness taken to a higher level. Thank god for Remember The Time though, one of the saving graces.