Militant said:

Spinlight said:

No, that isn't the point. You are trying to ascribe some special meaning where there isn't. There's songs about straight people fucking and doing whatever they want all over the charts and you don't see gay people complaining that its pandering to young straight kids, etc. If an artist who is black gets a top 10 hit, is that because the majority has deigned to allow it? NO. People GENUINELY support the rights of minorities and no amount of attempts to sully that concept will stifle it. "It couldn't possibly be that they support the message - it has to be a ploy to chase a pink dollar." Whatever that means, and I'm eternally flattered you call it a pink dollar. You're way too heteronormative to get it and that's cool. But perhaps you should not so blindly support such basic and tired ideaologies.

If the message was closing doors to her, that is news to me and everyone else in the world. Born This Way is poised to be her biggest hit yet with 2 record-selling singles right out the gate.

I'm not trying to ascribe a special meaning. It's called an opinion. Songs about straight people fucking all over the charts? Where? Name something in the Billboard 100 right now that is explicitly and obviously just about "straight people fucking" because I fail to see one.

You're putting words into my mouth. Did I say ONCE that she doesn't support the message? Did I say ONCE that I thought she wasn't genuine with it? NO. That still leaves room for it to be a DELIBERATE pander to a certain crowd. It's NOT that hard to understand. The POINT is that it's becoming exclusive. Did the gay crowd not support her before? Of course they did otherwise she wouldn't be in a position to pander to them. Her trying to position herself as some sort of leader for LGBT's is unnecessary and tiresome, and a bunch of them don't even like her that much anyway. Kylie has more support from that community worldwide by a long shot and she doesn't feel the need to position herself as such.

And LMFAO at heteronormative - you know nothing about me. certainly not enough to ASSUME that's my perspective. I can tell you RIGHT now that my exact opinion is shared by a bunch of gay friends I have both online and off.... I guess their opinion is "heteronormative" too?

And it's not about short term success. Watch what happens over the years - "Born This Way" will (and already has) tail off on radio and in clubs because of it's pandering. I STILL hear "Just Dance", "Pokerface", "Bad Romance" and "Telephone" on radio and in the clubs more than "Born This Way". I predict in 2 years you'll still hear those tunes dropping and you won't hear "Born This Way". Because those songs are all-inclusive pop songs that aren't playing up to certain segments of the crowd. And it's not just a sexuality thing, either. See how many people across the world who weren't raised on western religious philosophy sing along to lyrics like "god makes no mistakes". Betcha they don't. Again, it's not all-inclusive.

This is how heteronormative you are. lol.

Wake up.

She's so pathetic.

Spinlight said:

Militant said:

I'm not trying to ascribe a special meaning. It's called an opinion. Songs about straight people fucking all over the charts? Where? Name something in the Billboard 100 right now that is explicitly and obviously just about "straight people fucking" because I fail to see one.

You're putting words into my mouth. Did I say ONCE that she doesn't support the message? Did I say ONCE that I thought she wasn't genuine with it? NO. That still leaves room for it to be a DELIBERATE pander to a certain crowd. It's NOT that hard to understand. The POINT is that it's becoming exclusive. Did the gay crowd not support her before? Of course they did otherwise she wouldn't be in a position to pander to them. Her trying to position herself as some sort of leader for LGBT's is unnecessary and tiresome, and a bunch of them don't even like her that much anyway. Kylie has more support from that community worldwide by a long shot and she doesn't feel the need to position herself as such.

And LMFAO at heteronormative - you know nothing about me. certainly not enough to ASSUME that's my perspective. I can tell you RIGHT now that my exact opinion is shared by a bunch of gay friends I have both online and off.... I guess their opinion is "heteronormative" too?

And it's not about short term success. Watch what happens over the years - "Born This Way" will (and already has) tail off on radio and in clubs because of it's pandering. I STILL hear "Just Dance", "Pokerface", "Bad Romance" and "Telephone" on radio and in the clubs more than "Born This Way". I predict in 2 years you'll still hear those tunes dropping and you won't hear "Born This Way". Because those songs are all-inclusive pop songs that aren't playing up to certain segments of the crowd. And it's not just a sexuality thing, either. See how many people across the world who weren't raised on western religious philosophy sing along to lyrics like "god makes no mistakes". Betcha they don't. Again, it's not all-inclusive.

This is how heteronormative you are. lol.

Wake up.

You failed to answer the question, but just repeated the same bullshit. Can't say I'm surprised.

Militant said:

Spinlight said:

This is how heteronormative you are. lol.

Wake up.

You failed to answer the question, but just repeated the same bullshit. Can't say I'm surprised.

Of course gay people can have heteronormative opinions. Do you even know what the word means? Show you a song about straight people fucking? LOOK AT THE TOP 10. Any song about sex is heterosexual-themed. Wake UP.

Edit: Do some reading.

http://www.jayeless.net/2010/08/heteronormativity-in-popular-music/
http://www.genderandeducation.com/issues/what-is-heteronormativity/
http://www.trevorhoppe.com/blog/archives/2009/04/recuperating_he.html
http://ts-si.org/global-warning/16266-pervasiveness-of-heteronormativity-punctuated-sexuality-and-the-media

[Edited 4/16/11 20:12pm]

I can't say I LOVE the song Born This Way. In fact, I find it a little pedestrian. But the fact that the biggest pop star in the world is beating her audience over the head with the kind of message this song contains is very important imo. A line like "no matter gay straight or bi, lesbian transgendered life" might be as blunt as a cast iron pan, but the fact that it's in a song that so many people have heard and continue to hear is pretty huge. I don't consider her our representative or the go-to gal for all things gay, but I appreciate and respect the fact that she cares enough about us to make us a priority. We're still not considered equal citizens to the majority of the world. Straight people need to think about that before they whine about her pandering.

Spinlight said:

Militant said:

You failed to answer the question, but just repeated the same bullshit. Can't say I'm surprised.

Of course gay people can have heteronormative opinions. Do you even know what the word means? Show you a song about straight people fucking? LOOK AT THE TOP 10. Any song about sex is heterosexual-themed. Wake UP.

Edit: Do some reading.

http://www.jayeless.net/2010/08/heteronormativity-in-popular-music/
http://www.genderandeducation.com/issues/what-is-heteronormativity/
http://www.trevorhoppe.com/blog/archives/2009/04/recuperating_he.html
http://ts-si.org/global-warning/16266-pervasiveness-of-heteronormativity-punctuated-sexuality-and-the-media

[Edited 4/16/11 20:12pm]

It's not, SPECIFICALLY. Most of the songs could be ascribed as being either way depending on the perspective of the person singing them. Look at "S&M" by Rihanna which is currently at #1. Does she say anywhere in that song that whips and chains excite her when it's a guy whipping her? Nope.

YOU are projecting that because the general assumption but it's not stated. Which is what heteronormativity is, so it seems you're speaking about yourself more than about me. That's pretty funny.

Militant said:

Spinlight said:

Of course gay people can have heteronormative opinions. Do you even know what the word means? Show you a song about straight people fucking? LOOK AT THE TOP 10. Any song about sex is heterosexual-themed. Wake UP.

Edit: Do some reading.

http://www.jayeless.net/2010/08/heteronormativity-in-popular-music/
http://www.genderandeducation.com/issues/what-is-heteronormativity/
http://www.trevorhoppe.com/blog/archives/2009/04/recuperating_he.html
http://ts-si.org/global-warning/16266-pervasiveness-of-heteronormativity-punctuated-sexuality-and-the-media

[Edited 4/16/11 20:12pm]

It's not, SPECIFICALLY. Most of the songs could be ascribed as being either way depending on the perspective of the person singing them. Look at "S&M" by Rihanna which is currently at #1. Does she say anywhere in that song that whips and chains excite her when it's a guy whipping her? Nope.

YOU are projecting that because the general assumption but it's not stated. Which is what heteronormativity is, so it seems you're speaking about yourself more than about me. That's pretty funny.

Why haven't you written a song from the perspective of a gay person before? Don't tell me it's because the bug hasn't hit you to write it yet.

I'm not projecting anything. When a song is sung by a man and he says, "Girl" he is talking to a female. If you need to pester that issue to the hilt, it's because you're trolling me. Which is fine. Troll away. But no one is stupid enough to look at songs about sex and think, "Wow this totally isn't about heterosexuals even though gender roles are specifically stated."

Again, if you are new to queer theory (which, why wouldn't you be) then you should learn first before you speak.

jesus christ.. she can do no wrong!

this song is incredible

This shit sounds like some obscure, underground club song from 1996. There is nothing new or genuinely interesting about it. Quite frankly it's stale…as was "Born This Way."

I'll be glad when Lady Gaga finally goes away; her presence has been *horrible* on the state of contemporary music. And I hate how everything she does is presented as being these "innovative" and massive endeavors that everyone hangs on, when the reality is that it's always hijacked/reheated, forcibly weird to the point of stupidity, and/or just bland. The music never matches the hype.

Has mainstream society become THAT vapid that it's appointed HER its current ambassador?

[Edited 4/16/11 22:50pm]

SEANMAN said:

Okay, I'm LOVING the song. A couple of things, though:

a) if I hear one mention of it being even remotely similar to anything Madonna has done, is doing or will do, I will fucking lose it. Seriously. And...

b) I agree that this will be HUGE. I can already see the gays in the clubs singing "JUDAH-JUDA-AH-AHHH!!!"

I actually love Lady Gaga.

I had really no opinion of her and thought of her as just another girl act, until I saw her on SNL, and realized that she's actually a singer/song-writer with crazy antics.

Her debut album (or if you'd like sophomore album) has accomplished more than most female singers debut albums, and though her music is a mishmash and hybrid of things that have already preceded her (who's isn't these days?), she still provided a template that other female acts, many long established before her, have copied.

That being said, I can totally see the comparisons of Born this way to Madonna's Respect yourself. But really, is Madonna's respect yourself necessarily original itself?

The point behind Lady Gaga isn't that she offers anything new. It's that she's making waves. And I love her music. I love her borrowing elements from 80's glam, 90's house, etc. and blending it all together.

I just don't see her fading into the the woodwork any time soon. Sophomore albums are always more harshly criticized than the debut efforts, and I don't expect this to be seen in a better light. But I do think it will be one of the the albums of the year with regards to exposure and buzz--and as a Gaga fan, deservingly so.

Militant said:

Spinlight said:

No, that isn't the point. You are trying to ascribe some special meaning where there isn't. There's songs about straight people fucking and doing whatever they want all over the charts and you don't see gay people complaining that its pandering to young straight kids, etc. If an artist who is black gets a top 10 hit, is that because the majority has deigned to allow it? NO. People GENUINELY support the rights of minorities and no amount of attempts to sully that concept will stifle it. "It couldn't possibly be that they support the message - it has to be a ploy to chase a pink dollar." Whatever that means, and I'm eternally flattered you call it a pink dollar. You're way too heteronormative to get it and that's cool. But perhaps you should not so blindly support such basic and tired ideaologies.

If the message was closing doors to her, that is news to me and everyone else in the world. Born This Way is poised to be her biggest hit yet with 2 record-selling singles right out the gate.

I'm not trying to ascribe a special meaning. It's called an opinion. Songs about straight people fucking all over the charts? Where? Name something in the Billboard 100 right now that is explicitly and obviously just about "straight people fucking" because I fail to see one.

You're putting words into my mouth. Did I say ONCE that she doesn't support the message? Did I say ONCE that I thought she wasn't genuine with it? NO. That still leaves room for it to be a DELIBERATE pander to a certain crowd. It's NOT that hard to understand. The POINT is that it's becoming exclusive. Did the gay crowd not support her before? Of course they did otherwise she wouldn't be in a position to pander to them. Her trying to position herself as some sort of leader for LGBT's is unnecessary and tiresome, and a bunch of them don't even like her that much anyway. Kylie has more support from that community worldwide by a long shot and she doesn't feel the need to position herself as such.

And LMFAO at heteronormative - you know nothing about me. certainly not enough to ASSUME that's my perspective. I can tell you RIGHT now that my exact opinion is shared by a bunch of gay friends I have both online and off.... I guess their opinion is "heteronormative" too?

And it's not about short term success. Watch what happens over the years - "Born This Way" will (and already has) tail off on radio and in clubs because of it's pandering. I STILL hear "Just Dance", "Pokerface", "Bad Romance" and "Telephone" on radio and in the clubs more than "Born This Way". I predict in 2 years you'll still hear those tunes dropping and you won't hear "Born This Way". Because those songs are all-inclusive pop songs that aren't playing up to certain segments of the crowd. And it's not just a sexuality thing, either. See how many people across the world who weren't raised on western religious philosophy sing along to lyrics like "god makes no mistakes". Betcha they don't. Again, it's not all-inclusive.

You're not serious are you? Every song sung by a man in which he sings "girl" or "woman" is heterosexual, the same goes for a woman singing about a man.

How many songs do you know, where a man sings how he loves another man? Even people like George Michael don't do that. They just stopped using the gender, but it's never really sung.

I've finally heard the leak. I've been insanely busy for the last couple of days.

Well, the verdict is: I DIG THE SONG

sure, it's sounds like a mix of Lovegame + Bad Romance, and the ah-oh-oh-ahahaaow lines are certainly silly & cheesy, but THIS is the sound I expect/want from GaGa: merciless, relentless, slighty creepy hardcore/electronic music...

BETTER than Born this Way, which I also dig anyway

hell, perhaps I'll completely like this new album

lazycrockett said:

Meh just your typical thump thump dancefloor beat. It will be a hit, but its not really deserving of any accolades.

the worst of "The Fame/Monster" is better than either 2 singles from "Born This Way" so far.

completely underwhelmed.

and it's not just 'hating on gaga'. i've been into her since the Fame short movie first showed

up online. listened to The Fame and later to Monster a gazillion times and have a lot of true

respect for her talent and skills.

i guess i was hoping for a bit more of a 'real' feel this time around, given how good she is at

her piano, doing stripped down versions of her songs. instead she appears to have gone the

opposite was with totally overproduced, non melodic thump music that showcases neither a

nack for a great hook/melody or her quite amazing vocals.

still, the album probably has like 12 songs, so there's hope yet. but the two first singles have

dropped this from being in my top 5 of 'most anticipated albums of 2011' to somewhere along

the 'meh, i'll hear it when it gets here' regions.

this is what i meant. everything about this is so much better than anything

she's doing now.

[Edited 4/17/11 5:56am]

IstenSzek said:

this is what i meant. everything about this is so much better than anything

she's doing now.

[Edited 4/17/11 5:56am]

I <3 The Fame movie. Especially SpaceCowboy's lil "Egyptian Lover" breakdown in there. And the unreleased "Honest Eyes"...

Spinlight said:

Militant said:

It's not, SPECIFICALLY. Most of the songs could be ascribed as being either way depending on the perspective of the person singing them. Look at "S&M" by Rihanna which is currently at #1. Does she say anywhere in that song that whips and chains excite her when it's a guy whipping her? Nope.

YOU are projecting that because the general assumption but it's not stated. Which is what heteronormativity is, so it seems you're speaking about yourself more than about me. That's pretty funny.

Why haven't you written a song from the perspective of a gay person before? Don't tell me it's because the bug hasn't hit you to write it yet.

I'm not projecting anything. When a song is sung by a man and he says, "Girl" he is talking to a female. If you need to pester that issue to the hilt, it's because you're trolling me. Which is fine. Troll away. But no one is stupid enough to look at songs about sex and think, "Wow this totally isn't about heterosexuals even though gender roles are specifically stated."

Again, if you are new to queer theory (which, why wouldn't you be) then you should learn first before you speak.

I have, actually. I've also written a song from the perspective of a serial killer, even though I am neither of those things.

^

Is it true that she sampled Bad Romance for Judas?

Militant said:

Spinlight said:

No, that isn't the point. You are trying to ascribe some special meaning where there isn't. There's songs about straight people fucking and doing whatever they want all over the charts and you don't see gay people complaining that its pandering to young straight kids, etc. If an artist who is black gets a top 10 hit, is that because the majority has deigned to allow it? NO. People GENUINELY support the rights of minorities and no amount of attempts to sully that concept will stifle it. "It couldn't possibly be that they support the message - it has to be a ploy to chase a pink dollar." Whatever that means, and I'm eternally flattered you call it a pink dollar. You're way too heteronormative to get it and that's cool. But perhaps you should not so blindly support such basic and tired ideaologies.

If the message was closing doors to her, that is news to me and everyone else in the world. Born This Way is poised to be her biggest hit yet with 2 record-selling singles right out the gate.

I'm not trying to ascribe a special meaning. It's called an opinion. Songs about straight people fucking all over the charts? Where? Name something in the Billboard 100 right now that is explicitly and obviously just about "straight people fucking" because I fail to see one.

You're putting words into my mouth. Did I say ONCE that she doesn't support the message? Did I say ONCE that I thought she wasn't genuine with it? NO. That still leaves room for it to be a DELIBERATE pander to a certain crowd. It's NOT that hard to understand. The POINT is that it's becoming exclusive. Did the gay crowd not support her before? Of course they did otherwise she wouldn't be in a position to pander to them. Her trying to position herself as some sort of leader for LGBT's is unnecessary and tiresome, and a bunch of them don't even like her that much anyway. Kylie has more support from that community worldwide by a long shot and she doesn't feel the need to position herself as such.

And LMFAO at heteronormative - you know nothing about me. certainly not enough to ASSUME that's my perspective. I can tell you RIGHT now that my exact opinion is shared by a bunch of gay friends I have both online and off.... I guess their opinion is "heteronormative" too?

And it's not about short term success. Watch what happens over the years - "Born This Way" will (and already has) tail off on radio and in clubs because of it's pandering. I STILL hear "Just Dance", "Pokerface", "Bad Romance" and "Telephone" on radio and in the clubs more than "Born This Way". I predict in 2 years you'll still hear those tunes dropping and you won't hear "Born This Way". Because those songs are all-inclusive pop songs that aren't playing up to certain segments of the crowd. And it's not just a sexuality thing, either. See how many people across the world who weren't raised on western religious philosophy sing along to lyrics like "god makes no mistakes". Betcha they don't. Again, it's not all-inclusive.

Really? How about Jeremih and 50 Cent "Down On Me"? Katy Perry's "Teenage Dream" and "ET"? Or Pitbull's "Give Me Everything" and Enrique Iglesias "Tonight I'm Fucking You"? And do you think Britney was talking to a woman in "Hold it Against Me"?

I don't think Gaga's "Born this Way" is pandering by any means. I say anything that shines a positive light on the LGBT community, or any beleagured, bashed and bullied community period, then bravo. She's not solely speaking to gays in the song. She mentions race, gender and sexuality. It's a human rights mantra more than anything. You're perfect the way you are.

There's a reason Gaga threads always go on for pages and pages, and it's because she's interesting and provocative. She's polarizing for sure--people seem to either love her or hate her--but they're talking. And that's the point.

[Edited 4/18/11 6:59am]

so this is the second single of "the best album of this decade"? maaaaaaaaaaan, could this decade sucks even more than the last one?? it seems so...used 2 like her, but she's making it really hard lately.

SEANMAN said:

Really? How about Jeremih and 50 Cent "Down On Me"? Or Pitbull's "Give Me Everything" and Enrique Iglesias "Tonight I'm Fucking You"? And do you think Britney was talking to a woman in "Hold it Against Me"?

I don't think Gaga's "Born this Way" is pandering by any means. I say anything that shines a positive light on the LGBT community, or any beleagured, bashed and bullied community period, then bravo. She's not solely speaking to gays in the song. She mentions race, gender and sexuality. It's a human rights mantra more than anything. You're perfect the way you are.

There's a reason Gaga threads always go on for pages and pages, and it's because she's interesting and provocative. She's polarizing for sure--people seem to either love her or hate her--but they're talking. And that's the point.

[img:$uid]http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu240/minako86/oprahgif.gif[/img:$uid]

Truth.

Honestly, I didn't think it was that deep, but whatever...

WTF IS THIS???? :

http://en.wikipedia.org/w...n_This_Way

hope it's fake...

Album cover: hilariously awful. It's like she was trying to one-up Meat Loaf

Judas: I kind of actually love it. Surprised honestly. Too weird to be a hit though.

[Edited 4/17/11 19:36pm]

Awful song.

I honestly think she's punking everyone with that album cover.

SEANMAN said:

I honestly think she's punking everyone with that album cover.

Ashton Kutcher hasn't come out of the bushes yet.

Timmy84 said:

SEANMAN said:

I honestly think she's punking everyone with that album cover.

Ashton Kutcher hasn't come out of the bushes yet.

Spinlight said:

[img:$uid]http://i56.tinypic.com/21oueew.jpg[/img:$uid]

dude, I wish ^THAT^ was the real cover

Hmm...well, I'm more than willing to support an artist who feels the need to express themselves in any manner they see fit, and I do think it's great for artists who want to bring issues to light for any group that's underrrepresented. That being said just because they are doesn't mean that you have to applaud their contrived efforts either. I just feel that, in the beginning, Lady Gaga didn't seem to be that way. She was supposed to be a spoof on fame and everything pop culture has become. Now she's taken this role as a leader and official spokesperson of the LGBT community and catering all of her work around it. I have to admit that I can't help but roll my eyes at it since it doesn't seem genuine. At all. What's worse is that she seems to be taking herslef way too seriously now.

It just seems that as soon as she as she realized who her biggest demographic were she ran to pander to them. I guess I would feel different if that was her original focus and intent, but that doesn't seem to be the case which makes it all seem really suspicious and not really genuine. Even if she was, it doesn't come off that way. She comes off as fake. It could be just an unfortunate coincidence, but there just doesn't seem to be one genuine inkling of intent on her behalf.

Maybe I would feel different if she had someone else writing her decent lyrics, because her own are fucking god-awful.

[Edited 4/18/11 5:13am]