ThePopLover2 said:

trueiopian said:

Sorry but Aaliyah is so overrated. Can someone explain to me what is so significant about her contribution to music? I understand that her sudden passing was a shock to the music world but the way people go on about her is as if she otherworldly.

Even her self-titled album wasn't even doing that well prior to her passing. I don't get all the hype. People should give it a rest already.

I used to be obsessed with Aaliyah 2 years ago, But now that I think about, What did aaliyah do that Janet didnt already do?

I mean seriously, it's like they try to put her and Janet on the same level or something!

I was reading this interview on ciara Aaliyah and Janet and the Interviewer was questioning ciara on the Janet/Aaliyah Comparisons and he says

"Throughout the review, Nathan also pointed out how quick people are to compare you to artists of the past like Janet Jackson or Aaliyah. Now, I’m sure these are flattering compliments, because these two ladies have done serious things in the industry, but, deep down, do you get bothered by the constant comparisons, or is it just a compliment?"

What did Aaliyah do serious in the Industry? That JJ didnt already do?

I mean Janet already had the "Tomboy Look" Aaliyah had, she already had the sharp/smooth dance moves. I'm kinda confused here?

What does Janet have to do with this?

Aaliyah hasn't done "serious" things in the industry. People just hype her up because of her tragic death at such a young age. And tbh she was just as much of a puppet as Rihanna and Britney Spears. So Idk why someone in here is trying to act like she was the mastermind behind the choregraphy and image. The whole tomboy image was her former mentor R. Kelly's creation, not her's.

EmbattledWarrior said:

She was lucky to have a daddy in the industry who could pimp her out.

The nerve.

So I guess Aaliyah was lucky to have an uncle in the industry who could pimp her out too?

EmbattledWarrior said:

mimi02 said:

Let's face it, at the end of the day, it's about the overall package. Looks get you in the door, but unless you have to have something that will allow you to stay in the room. I mean, Beyonce isn't a complete loss when it comes to talent. Performance-wise the girl must be doing something right, because I don't care how beautiful, sexy, whatever she is...she ain't selling out concerts solely on her looks.

i never said she didn't have talent.

She is no doubt a good performer.

My bag is with people who don't pay their dues to the industry. Which she didn't

She never fought for anything. She was lucky to have a daddy in the industry who could pimp her out.

But is she something special, to be praised by everyone?

Of course not.

She's like any other performer. And there are a million people better than her that do pay their dues, just don't have the nepotism to fall back on.

She's a Pseudo-Diva and a Faux Song-Writer.

Aaliyah's husband wrote and produced her entire album. Her uncle, who worked for Blackground Records, introduced the two. Where would she be without them? Was she not pimped out?

The double standards here are insane and the only reason she doesn't get called out for it now is because she's dead. How's that?

[Edited 3/25/11 17:21pm]

Not trying to be a dick here myself, but I wonder sometimes if people realize what clueless assholes they come off as when expressing what is (99.9% of the time) just their uneducated opinion?

Does how someones music reaches you really affect your opinion of their talent, music, voice, etc.? If so then you don't know very much about the "music business". Its a product that is marketed and sold to you, no different than laundry soap or a hamburger. Even the most "pure" (whatever that means) independent artist, selling their PRODUCT by themselves at their shows, out of their trunk or through their website is STILL trying to get your money (either by going to their shows or by buying their music and merchandise). This nonsense about how somebody got into the "business" should have absolutely no bearing on whether or not you like their "product". What affect does their song, voice, image, etc have on your emotions and way of thinking while listening or watching? Really, that's all that matters. Or all that should matter.

Also, don't think for a second that the business is overflowing with nepotism. Its everywhere, at all levels.

Lastly, Beyonce has worked her ass off for about a decade straight. Anybody who thinks otherwise is COMPLETELY clueless. Its hard, and its hard work, to keep people focused and paying attention to you that much, for that long.

EmbattledWarrior said:

mimi02 said:

Let's face it, at the end of the day, it's about the overall package. Looks get you in the door, but unless you have to have something that will allow you to stay in the room. I mean, Beyonce isn't a complete loss when it comes to talent. Performance-wise the girl must be doing something right, because I don't care how beautiful, sexy, whatever she is...she ain't selling out concerts solely on her looks.

i never said she didn't have talent.

She is no doubt a good performer.

My bag is with people who don't pay their dues to the industry. Which she didn't

She never fought for anything. She was lucky to have a daddy in the industry who could pimp her out.

But is she something special, to be praised by everyone?

Of course not.

She's like any other performer. And there are a million people better than her that do pay their dues, just don't have the nepotism to fall back on.

She's a Pseudo-Diva and a Faux Song-Writer.

And she is paying for that. She's not on the level of Anita, Maxwell, Jill, Sade, Mary, Prince, or any other artist who can sit back and go years between album (cd) releases. She has to stay out there in order to stay relevant. This "break" that she's taking now is the only career risk she's ever taken to date.

musicjunky318 said:

Moonbeam said:

The fact that she's good, perhaps?

So she was exceptionally talented compared to all those that were out there that flop now right? Brandy, Monica...Why aren't they doing well? They aren't as special as Aaliyah?

I'm done. Sayonara.

No, they aren't even close to Aaliyah, particularly Brandy.

Your argument that she is overrated due to sales is also quite silly, I might add.

Cerebus said:

Not trying to be a dick here myself, but I wonder sometimes if people realize what clueless assholes they come off as when expressing what is (99.9% of the time) just their uneducated opinion?

Does how someones music reaches you really affect your opinion of their talent, music, voice, etc.? If so then you don't know very much about the "music business". Its a product that is marketed and sold to you, no different than laundry soap or a hamburger. Even the most "pure" (whatever that means) independent artist, selling their PRODUCT by themselves at their shows, out of their trunk or through their website is STILL trying to get your money (either by going to their shows or by buying their music and merchandise). This nonsense about how somebody got into the "business" should have absolutely no bearing on whether or not you like their "product". What affect does their song, voice, image, etc have on your emotions and way of thinking while listening or watching? Really, that's all that matters. Or all that should matter.

Also, don't think for a second that the business is overflowing with nepotism. Its everywhere, at all levels.

Lastly, Beyonce has worked her ass off for about a decade straight. Anybody who thinks otherwise is COMPLETELY clueless. Its hard, and its hard work, to keep people focused and paying attention to you that much, for that long.

trueiopian said:

Curtwill1975 said:

Janet don't have range, or power, but she has a "high sitting" voice.

Her range is just as wide as some of the critical acclaimed singers and she has power when she wants to.

I agree and this is coming from somone who sings janet's songs all the time...

she may not be singing like whitney/mariah... but her songs aren't for beginners... Janet has a very soft, angelic and high tone in her voice. That most people even if they could sing or hit the same notes as janet would not sound as soothing as her...

musicjunky318 said:

EmbattledWarrior said:

i never said she didn't have talent.

She is no doubt a good performer.

My bag is with people who don't pay their dues to the industry. Which she didn't

She never fought for anything. She was lucky to have a daddy in the industry who could pimp her out.

But is she something special, to be praised by everyone?

Of course not.

She's like any other performer. And there are a million people better than her that do pay their dues, just don't have the nepotism to fall back on.

She's a Pseudo-Diva and a Faux Song-Writer.

Aaliyah's husband wrote and produced her entire album. Her uncle, who worked for Blackground Records, introduced the two. Where would she be without them? Was she not pimped out?

The double standards here are insane and the only reason she doesn't get called out for it now is because she's dead. How's that?

[Edited 3/25/11 17:21pm]

Exactly.

trueiopian said:

EmbattledWarrior said:

She was lucky to have a daddy in the industry who could pimp her out.

The nerve.

So I guess Aaliyah was lucky to have an uncle in the industry who could pimp her out too?

The nerve of YOU. If Janet wasn't a "Jackson" where would she be?

trueiopian said:

ThePopLover2 said:

I used to be obsessed with Aaliyah 2 years ago, But now that I think about, What did aaliyah do that Janet didnt already do?

I mean seriously, it's like they try to put her and Janet on the same level or something!

I was reading this interview on ciara Aaliyah and Janet and the Interviewer was questioning ciara on the Janet/Aaliyah Comparisons and he says

"Throughout the review, Nathan also pointed out how quick people are to compare you to artists of the past like Janet Jackson or Aaliyah. Now, I’m sure these are flattering compliments, because these two ladies have done serious things in the industry, but, deep down, do you get bothered by the constant comparisons, or is it just a compliment?"

What did Aaliyah do serious in the Industry? That JJ didnt already do?

I mean Janet already had the "Tomboy Look" Aaliyah had, she already had the sharp/smooth dance moves. I'm kinda confused here?

What does Janet have to do with this?

Aaliyah hasn't done "serious" things in the industry. People just hype her up because of her tragic death at such a young age. And tbh she was just as much of a puppet as Rihanna and Britney Spears. So Idk why someone in here is trying to act like she was the mastermind behind the choregraphy and image. The whole tomboy image was her former mentor R. Kelly's creation, not her's.

in a 1998 interview Aaliyah revealed that she helped Fatima with some of the choreography. You don't know shit. Next.

She was a puppet?

http://www.youtube.com/wa...iSG1Jgivkc

http://www.youtube.com/wa...uzwNswETFE

http://www.youtube.com/wa...re=related

http://www.youtube.com/wa...fLUs4nrOqY

All of those clips she talks about being involved in the music making process. of course you won't click all of these clips, but I just wanted to post proof.

musicjunky318 said:

EmbattledWarrior said:

i never said she didn't have talent.

She is no doubt a good performer.

My bag is with people who don't pay their dues to the industry. Which she didn't

She never fought for anything. She was lucky to have a daddy in the industry who could pimp her out.

But is she something special, to be praised by everyone?

Of course not.

She's like any other performer. And there are a million people better than her that do pay their dues, just don't have the nepotism to fall back on.

She's a Pseudo-Diva and a Faux Song-Writer.

-

The double standards here are insane and the only reason she doesn't get called out for it now is because she's dead. How's that?

[Edited 3/25/11 17:21pm]

You've had many double standards, bias opnions, and one sided arguments yourself all in this thread. I suggest you take more of your own advice before you call out stuff that you have done yourself.

Besides, You said you were done a page ago. Why the need to keep coming back and making yourself look more like an idiot?

[Edited 3/25/11 19:21pm]

Pressure said:

trueiopian said:

The nerve.

So I guess Aaliyah was lucky to have an uncle in the industry who could pimp her out too?

The nerve of YOU. If Janet wasn't a "Jackson" where would she be?

What's your obsession with Janet Jackson? I'm dead serious. You keep bringing her up in a thread about Aaliyah and Beyonce. FYI, there's a whole thread dedicated to Janet so you can take all your thoughts there but since you brought her up again - I was referring to someone saying that Beyonce's father pimped her when really Aaliyah's uncle pimped her since she was 12 years old. I won't get into details because it would make you cry. By the way, I'm aware that Joe Jackson pimped all of his kids but at least, Janet let him go when she was 20. Oh and the nepotism argument always fails. Especially, when we have Latoya, Jermaine and the rest of the crew that didn't reach the heights Janet did.

musicjunky318 said:

EmbattledWarrior said:

i never said she didn't have talent.

She is no doubt a good performer.

My bag is with people who don't pay their dues to the industry. Which she didn't

She never fought for anything. She was lucky to have a daddy in the industry who could pimp her out.

But is she something special, to be praised by everyone?

Of course not.

She's like any other performer. And there are a million people better than her that do pay their dues, just don't have the nepotism to fall back on.

She's a Pseudo-Diva and a Faux Song-Writer.

Aaliyah's husband wrote and produced her entire album. Her uncle, who worked for Blackground Records, introduced the two. Where would she be without them? Was she not pimped out?

The double standards here are insane and the only reason she doesn't get called out for it now is because she's dead. How's that?

[Edited 3/25/11 17:21pm]

See this is why I hate the Org.

People like say things without not knowing fully about what's being talked about.

The parallels are of your own invention

Aaliyah paid her dues. She was playing since she was little. She played at weddings and at church, she went on star search. She got signed to an indie deal, before going under the wing of R.Kelly and hitting superstardom.

She played the game, that most up and coming artist have to.

Beyoncé's father was a major R&B manager and owned a label under Columbia Records.

She never had to pay her dues. She was never in a deadend ditch singing in smoke filled rooms in ABC city. She didn't have to fight to get a record deal. It was handed to her by her father.

She was a manufactured artist. It's not weird that she was the spotlight artist of Destiny's Child.

She wasn't the Female Michael Jackson, who was so talented she rose to the occasion.

She was manufactured by her father.

The only reason she got her Role on Goldmember, was because her dad jumped through hoops so Jay Roach the director would see her, because he wasn't too impressed by her.

I'm not knocking her talent in anyway, I'm just saying she didn't pay dues.

And don't tell me, she didn't have a choice.

Everyone does.

Jeff Buckley Did, chose not to follow the coattails of his dad.

Dhani Harrison

Norah Jones (unlike her sister Anoushka Shankar, though she's still pretty awesome)

Rufus Wainwright

etc...

All could've chose to have their very famous fam to help them.

There is a beautiful dignity of paying your dues to the musician and club circuit.

It shows that you and you alone, have the ability ro rise upon your own bootstraps

and make something of yourself, Pure Horatio Alger.

Beyoncé never did that...

[Edited 3/25/11 19:19pm]

Pressure said:

trueiopian said:

What does Janet have to do with this?

Aaliyah hasn't done "serious" things in the industry. People just hype her up because of her tragic death at such a young age. And tbh she was just as much of a puppet as Rihanna and Britney Spears. So Idk why someone in here is trying to act like she was the mastermind behind the choregraphy and image. The whole tomboy image was her former mentor R. Kelly's creation, not her's.

in a 1998 interview Aaliyah revealed that she helped Fatima with some of the choreography. You don't know shit. Next.

She was a puppet?

http://www.youtube.com/wa...iSG1Jgivkc

http://www.youtube.com/wa...uzwNswETFE

http://www.youtube.com/wa...re=related

http://www.youtube.com/wa...fLUs4nrOqY

All of those clips she talks about being involved in the music making process. of course you won't click all of these clips, but I just wanted to post proof.

The credits on her albums say differently.

EmbattledWarrior said:

musicjunky318 said:

Aaliyah's husband wrote and produced her entire album. Her uncle, who worked for Blackground Records, introduced the two. Where would she be without them? Was she not pimped out?

The double standards here are insane and the only reason she doesn't get called out for it now is because she's dead. How's that?

[Edited 3/25/11 17:21pm]

See this is why I hate the Org.

People like say things without not knowing fully about what's being talked about.

There parallels are of your own invention

Aaliyah paid her dues. She was playing since she was little. She played at weddings at church, she went on star search. She got signed to an indie deal, before going under the wing of R.Kelly and hitting superstardom.

She played the game, that most up and coming artist have to.

Beyoncé's father was a major manager and owned a label under Columbia Records.

She never had to pay her dues. She was never in a deadend ditch singing in smoke filled rooms in ABC city. She didn't have to fight to get a record deal. It was handed to her by her father.

She was a manufactured artist. It's not weird that she was the spotlight artist of Destiny's Child.

She wasn't the Female Michael Jackson, who was so talented she rose to the occasion.

She was manufactured by her father.

The only reason she got her Role on Goldmember, was because her dad jumped through hoops so Jay Roach the director would see her, because he wasn't too impressed by her.

I'm not knocking her talent in anyway, I'm just saying she didn't pay dues.

And don't tell me, she didn't have a choice.

Everyone does.

Jeff Buckley Did, chose not to follow the coattails of his dad.

Dhani Harrison

Norah Jones (unlike her sister Anoushka Shankar, though she's still pretty awesome)

Rufus Wainwright

etc...

All could've chose to have their very famous fam to help them.

There is a beautiful dignity of paying your dues to the musician and club circuit.

Beyoncé never did that...

I agree .

trueiopian said:

Pressure said:

in a 1998 interview Aaliyah revealed that she helped Fatima with some of the choreography. You don't know shit. Next.

She was a puppet?

http://www.youtube.com/wa...iSG1Jgivkc

http://www.youtube.com/wa...uzwNswETFE

http://www.youtube.com/wa...re=related

http://www.youtube.com/wa...fLUs4nrOqY

All of those clips she talks about being involved in the music making process. of course you won't click all of these clips, but I just wanted to post proof.

The credits on her albums say differently.

Aaliyah was the exectuvitve producer on her last two albums. How about that?

Just because you are listed in song credits, doesn't mean you did much (I.E., Beyonce)

Pressure said:

trueiopian said:

The credits on her albums say differently.

Aaliyah was the exectuvitve producer on her last two albums. How about that?

Just because you are listed in song credits, doesn't mean you did much (I.E., Beyonce)

Executive producers just lend their name to the project and it doesn't mean she did anything. Just look at the credits. I don't see her name as a MUSIC producer or WRITER. Understand?

BTW,

An executive producer (EP) is a producer who is not involved in any technical aspects of the film making or music process, but who is still responsible for the overall production. Typically an executive producer handles business and legal issues.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w...e_producer

Example: Aaliyah's uncle was the executive producer of her first album but he didn't write or produce anything on it.

[Edited 3/25/11 19:34pm]

EmbattledWarrior said:

Beyoncé's father was a major R&B manager and owned a label under Columbia Records.

Matthew Knowles didn't have a label and didn't manage anybody until Destiny's Child became successful. He sold medical equipment, until DC took off. Willie D of the Geto Boys used to have a radio talk show in Houston TX, and he showcased DC on his show before they had a record release.

[Edited 3/25/11 19:43pm]

EmbattledWarrior said:

musicjunky318 said:

Aaliyah's husband wrote and produced her entire album. Her uncle, who worked for Blackground Records, introduced the two. Where would she be without them? Was she not pimped out?

The double standards here are insane and the only reason she doesn't get called out for it now is because she's dead. How's that?

[Edited 3/25/11 17:21pm]

See this is why I hate the Org.

People like say things without not knowing fully about what's being talked about.

The parallels are of your own invention

Aaliyah paid her dues. She was playing since she was little. She played at weddings and at church, she went on star search. She got signed to an indie deal, before going under the wing of R.Kelly and hitting superstardom.

She played the game, that most up and coming artist have to.

Beyoncé's father was a major R&B manager and owned a label under Columbia Records.

She never had to pay her dues. She was never in a deadend ditch singing in smoke filled rooms in ABC city. She didn't have to fight to get a record deal. It was handed to her by her father.

She was a manufactured artist. It's not weird that she was the spotlight artist of Destiny's Child.

She wasn't the Female Michael Jackson, who was so talented she rose to the occasion.

She was manufactured by her father.

The only reason she got her Role on Goldmember, was because her dad jumped through hoops so Jay Roach the director would see her, because he wasn't too impressed by her.

I'm not knocking her talent in anyway, I'm just saying she didn't pay dues.

And don't tell me, she didn't have a choice.

Everyone does.

Jeff Buckley Did, chose not to follow the coattails of his dad.

Dhani Harrison

Norah Jones (unlike her sister Anoushka Shankar, though she's still pretty awesome)

Rufus Wainwright

etc...

All could've chose to have their very famous fam to help them.

There is a beautiful dignity of paying your dues to the musician and club circuit.

It shows that you and you alone, have the ability ro rise upon your own bootstraps

and make something of yourself, Pure Horatio Alger.

Beyoncé never did that...

[Edited 3/25/11 19:19pm]

You're not making any sense. Her damn uncle owned a record label. She was signed to that same record label. What is that a coincidence? He was the one that introduced her to her future husband who he was managing at the time. Aaliyah's aunt was Gladys Knight. Is that not being connected?

This is stuff Matthew Knowles can't even say. Did he help Destiny's Child get signed to Columbia? Absolutely. But in 97 he wasn't even affiliated with them. He was just managing the group.

So who really had more pull, Mr. Hankerson or Mr. Knowles? Who really had it easier? The neice of a man who was the CEO of his own company or the daughter of a man who wasn't?

And so what she sung at weddings. That doesn't make her special. And for the record Beyonce's been singing since she was a kid too. Went on Star Search and everything as well.

trueiopian said:

Sorry but Aaliyah is so overrated. Can someone explain to me what is so significant about her contribution to music? I understand that her sudden passing was a shock to the music world but the way people go on about her is as if she otherworldly.

Even her self-titled album wasn't even doing that well prior to her passing. I don't get all the hype. People should give it a rest already.

U again! Why r u even here? Please go away & never come back

By the way Aaliyah could sing powerful. She adopted her more sultry soft voice as her own style. She was a natural beauty even at 14. Very photogenic and the most talented in her generation. Her last album was just released before she died, So its unfair to say it would have been a flop. I think she would have surpassed Beyonce Because she was naturally sexy & sultry it wasn't forced. R Kelly & Jay Z couldn't even resist her(Not a good example but true).

R.I.P AALIYAH

[img:$uid]http://pic80.picturetrail.com/VOL2084/9118410/23710928/395860070.jpg[/img:$uid]

Aww, my deluded friend.

Your whole post had nothing to do with my initial post. Maybe next time.

trueiopian said:

Pressure said:

Aaliyah was the exectuvitve producer on her last two albums. How about that?

Just because you are listed in song credits, doesn't mean you did much (I.E., Beyonce)

Executive producers just lend their name to the project and it doesn't mean she did anything. Just look at the credits. I don't see her name as a MUSIC producer or WRITER. Understand?

BTW,

An executive producer (EP) is a producer who is not involved in any technical aspects of the film making or music process, but who is still responsible for the overall production. Typically an executive producer handles business and legal issues.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w...e_producer

Example: Aaliyah's uncle was the executive producer of her first album but he didn't write or produce anything on it.

[Edited 3/25/11 19:34pm]

Not so fast. You forgot some details.

the music industry, the executive producer of an album is often in control of the business side of production, distribution, and promotion, but more often than not, is in charge of the entire project as is a director. They decide what the albums themes will be, create the image for the artist, decide which songs will be singles, and have the final say on every single song's completion. It is the executive producer who makes the decision as to when the song is finished and ready to be shown to the public.

In some instances, an executive producer can be a person who "discovered" a particular act, or someone who represents an act, either as an agent or a lawyer.

Now, if she was a "puppet" she wouldn't have any control over these things.

Yet her name isn't listed as a MUSIC producer or WRITER

Oh and puppets do have final say to all the songs, ideas and etc. provided to them.

Song dedicated to Aaliyah by the very beautiful Missy Elliot

trueiopian said:

Yet her name isn't listed as a MUSIC producer or WRITER

Oh and puppets do have final say to all the songs, ideas and etc. provided to them.

But they didn't just bring her songs. Aaliyah actually sat with her team and helped songwriters come up with themes and subjects for songs, or she would tell them what kind of song she wants/looking for and they would make the song and tailor it to her liking.

I don't see how that's a puppet. a Puppet is someone who does NOTHING but just record over demos all day long and just does what their label tells them.

[Edited 3/26/11 3:01am]

Pressure said:

trueiopian said:

Yet her name isn't listed as a MUSIC producer or WRITER

Oh and puppets do have final say to all the songs, ideas and etc. provided to them.

But they didn't just bring her songs. Aaliyah actually sat with her team and helped songwriters come up with themes and subjects for songs, or she would tell them what kind of song she wants/looking for and they would make the song and tailor it to her liking.

I don't see how that's a puppet. a Puppet is someone who does NOTHING but just record over demos all day long and just does what their label tells them.

[Edited 3/26/11 3:01am]

Then why do the credits state otherwise? If she actually contributed she would be credited, correct?

A puppet is someone that doesn't write, producer or create anything. They just sit back and approve what they like.

trueiopian said:

Pressure said:

But they didn't just bring her songs. Aaliyah actually sat with her team and helped songwriters come up with themes and subjects for songs, or she would tell them what kind of song she wants/looking for and they would make the song and tailor it to her liking.

I don't see how that's a puppet. a Puppet is someone who does NOTHING but just record over demos all day long and just does what their label tells them.

[Edited 3/26/11 3:01am]

Then why do the credits state otherwise? If she actually contributed she would be credited, correct?

A puppet is someone that doesn't write, producer or create anything. They just sit back and approve what they like.

She doesn't have to be on credits to tell them what SHE'S looking for. She didn't do the actual production or songwriting, she sat with them and tells them what SHE WANTS and they make it to HER perfection.

This is the definition of a puppet: