2freaky4church1 said:

Gonna set a serpentine fire on yo ass.

Graycap23 said:

An acapella song has NO music.

Oh holy hell, do we have to go into what music is?

Taken from here:

S: (n) music (an artistic form of auditory communication incorporating instrumental or vocal tones in a structured and continuous manner)

Taken from here:

I am pretty sure that most people would laugh dead in your face at the notion that Luciano Pavarotti or Ella Fitzgerald weren't musicians simply for the fact that they did not play instruments. In fact, the mere notion of that is absurd in itself.

As a drummer, I am offended by this. If you can make music with something, then you're a musician.

802 said:

Unholyalliance said:

Graycap23 said:

An acapella song has NO music.

Oh holy hell, do we have to go into what music is?

Taken from here:

Taken from here:

relationships to produce a composition having unity and continuityb : vocal, instrumental, or mechanical sounds having rhythm, melody, or harmony

I am pretty sure that most people would laugh dead in your face at the notion that Luciano Pavarotti or Ella Fitzgerald weren't musicians simply for the fact that they did not play instruments. In fact, the mere notion of that is absurd in itself.

Do u think their laugher would have any impact on me?

Graycap23 said:

Unholyalliance said:

I am pretty sure that most people would laugh dead in your face at the notion that Luciano Pavarotti or Ella Fitzgerald weren't musicians simply for the fact that they did not play instruments. In fact, the mere notion of that is absurd in itself.

Do u think their laugher would have any impact on me?

Well neither does actual knowledge...so I see your point.

Unholyalliance said:

Graycap23 said:

Do u think their laugher would have any impact on me?

Well neither does actual knowledge...so I see your point.

Interesting.

I've been a MUSICIAN of of my life and I konw one when I see/hear one.

Graycap23 said:

nd33 said:

Graycap23 said:

Interesting.

I've been a MUSICIAN of of my life and I konw one when I see/hear one.

You can be a musician all your life as much as you want, but please realise that well established dictionary definitions say you're dead wrong about what constitutes a musician. Having said that, by all means keep communicating using the niche graycap23 dictionary and perhaps create an online version of it so we all know what you're talking about... So what are you some kinda singer or something?

lol..........a little common sense should prevail.

I can clearly see that it does NOT.

Graycap23 said:

An acapella song has NO music.

An acapella song IS music. As per the dictionary definition.

The Michael Jackson demo's that have leaked... where he multi-tracked his voice beatboxing and humming each melodic instrument layer..... is that not music?

Militant said:

Graycap23 said:

An acapella song has NO music.

An acapella song IS music. As per the dictionary definition.

The Michael Jackson demo's that have leaked... where he multi-tracked his voice beatboxing and humming each melodic instrument layer..... is that not music?

Acapella is a vocal performance WITHOUT music.

Graycap23 said:

Militant said:

An acapella song IS music. As per the dictionary definition.

The Michael Jackson demo's that have leaked... where he multi-tracked his voice beatboxing and humming each melodic instrument layer..... is that not music?

Acapella is a vocal performance WITHOUT music.

Your voice is an instrument, therefore it is music.

Graycap23 said:

Acapella is a vocal performance WITHOUT music.

Vocals are music. They have melody and rhythm.

How is learning pitch control, good vibrato, vocal scales any different from learning how to play an instrument?

Why is controlling the flow of air passed through the human lungs and vocal cords to create melody different from controlling the flow of air passed through a metal construction like a horn instrument? In the former, you control pitch by restricting the frequencies of the air flow using muscles, and in the latter you control pitch by restricting the frequencies of the air flow using mechanical buttons. The two are really not that different.

Why is the voice NOT an instrument? It requires study and practice to be proficient, like any other.

I'm not trying to make jabs at you here but I'm just trying to see how you've reached your conclusion. As you know, I respect your opinions even if I don't agree with them. I just want to know the basis for them.

802 said:

As a drummer, I am offended by this. If you can make music with something, then you're a musician.

I think the thread was done as joke, though. Spin-off of the "Rappers aren't musicians" thread.

Militant said:

Graycap23 said:

Acapella is a vocal performance WITHOUT music.

Vocals are music. They have melody and rhythm.

How is learning pitch control, good vibrato, vocal scales any different from learning how to play an instrument?

Why is controlling the flow of air passed through the human lungs and vocal cords to create melody different from controlling the flow of air passed through a metal construction like a horn instrument? In the former, you control pitch by restricting the frequencies of the air flow using muscles, and in the latter you control pitch by restricting the frequencies of the air flow using mechanical buttons. The two are really not that different.

Why is the voice NOT an instrument? It requires study and practice to be proficient, like any other.

I'm not trying to make jabs at you here but I'm just trying to see how you've reached your conclusion. As you know, I respect your opinions even if I don't agree with them. I just want to know the basis for them.

Honestly.......technically u are correct.

I look at music the same way as I look at sports.

Let's take football 4 example: U have a QB, a running back, a receiver, blockers and tacklers. (2 keep it simple) They are all playing football, but NONE of the positions are the same.

Let's take the composition of a song: U have the writer, the arranger, the producer, the singer. the rapper, the intrumentalists. (2 keep it simple) They are all a part of the creative process BUT none of those jobs are the same.

Does this make sense?

Graycap23 said:

Honestly.......technically u are correct.

I look at music the same way as I look at sports.

Let's take football 4 example: U have a QB, a running back, a receiver, blockers and tacklers. (2 keep it simple) They are all playing football, but NONE of the positions are the same.

Let's take the composition of a song: U have the writer, the arranger, the producer, the singer. the rapper, the intrumentalists. (2 keep it simple) They are all a part of the creative process BUT none of those jobs are the same.

Does this make sense?

Sure, that makes total sense, but I believe that all the people you listed can be considered musicians being as they creatively contribute to the act of making music.

The points you've made in this thread seem to me, to be related to the term instrumentalist rather than musician, which is more of a catch-all term.

Militant said:

Graycap23 said:

Honestly.......technically u are correct.

I look at music the same way as I look at sports.

Let's take football 4 example: U have a QB, a running back, a receiver, blockers and tacklers. (2 keep it simple) They are all playing football, but NONE of the positions are the same.

Let's take the composition of a song: U have the writer, the arranger, the producer, the singer. the rapper, the intrumentalists. (2 keep it simple) They are all a part of the creative process BUT none of those jobs are the same.

Does this make sense?

Sure, that makes total sense, but I believe that all the people you listed can be considered musicians being as they creatively contribute to the act of making music.

The points you've made in this thread seem to me, to be related to the term instrumentalist rather than musician, which is more of a catch-all term.

Next thing u know........folks will be calling Dj's musicians.

Graycap23 said:

Next thing u know........folks will be calling Dj's musicians.

Well, that's not the same thing. Generally speaking, DJ's are simply PLAYING music rather than having a hand in actually creating it.

Militant said:

Graycap23 said:

Next thing u know........folks will be calling Dj's musicians.

Well, that's not the same thing. Generally speaking, DJ's are simply PLAYING music rather than having a hand in actually creating it.

Vocalist help creat "songs" but they don't creat "music".

Graycap23 said:

Vocalist help creat "songs" but they don't creat "music".

Sure they do. Vocals are music, as per the generally accepted definition of it. You can claim that they aren't music.... but you're arguing against the generally accepted definition without explaining WHY they aren't.

Militant said:

Graycap23 said:

Vocalist help creat "songs" but they don't creat "music".

Sure they do. Vocals are music, as per the generally accepted definition of it. You can claim that they aren't music.... but you're arguing against the generally accepted definition without explaining WHY they aren't.

I don't care about any definition.

Music..............comes from an instrument of some kind. It is as simple as that and it si not complicated.

Songs consist of vocals and musical (instrumental) arrangements. How simple can u get?

Dewrede said:

^

no they aren't

you aren't a musician unless you actually play a musical instrument

LOOOOOOOOOOL , A musician is someone who writes music in general......

you don't have to play an instrument to be a great musician ......The term musician is not strictly determined by play instrument.....

Graycap23 said:

Militant said:

Well, that's not the same thing. Generally speaking, DJ's are simply PLAYING music rather than having a hand in actually creating it.

Vocalist help creat "songs" but they don't creat "music".

This doesn't even make sense.....

I fully agree with Militant. The voice is indeed an instrument,

therefore anyone who creates music with their voice can definitely be considered a musician.

I think MJ is a good example: he is definitely a musician in my mind -

anyone capable of composing a song like Billie Jean or I Just Can't Stop Loving You

simply HAS to be considered a musician - it matters not on which instrument

these songs were composed - be it voice, guitar or piano.

Graycap23 said:

Militant said:

Sure they do. Vocals are music, as per the generally accepted definition of it. You can claim that they aren't music.... but you're arguing against the generally accepted definition without explaining WHY they aren't.

I don't care about any definition.

Music..............comes from an instrument of some kind. It is as simple as that and it si not complicated.

Songs consist of vocals and musical (instrumental) arrangements. How simple can u get?

Well, the fact remains that everyone seems to agree on the definition but you.

As stated - the voice IS an instrument. There are not many people who would disagree.

Militant said:

Graycap23 said:

I don't care about any definition.

Music..............comes from an instrument of some kind. It is as simple as that and it si not complicated.

Songs consist of vocals and musical (instrumental) arrangements. How simple can u get?

Well, the fact remains that everyone seems to agree on the definition but you.

As stated - the voice IS an instrument. There are not many people who would disagree.

The voice can be used as an instrument but it is NOT an instrument.

U can believe that all u want but it is NOT an instrument.

Militant said:

Graycap23 said:

I don't care about any definition.

Music..............comes from an instrument of some kind. It is as simple as that and it si not complicated.

Songs consist of vocals and musical (instrumental) arrangements. How simple can u get?

Well, the fact remains that everyone seems to agree on the definition but you.

As stated - the voice IS an instrument. There are not many people who would disagree.

We can agree 2 disagree.

I will never believe that.

Graycap23 said:

The voice can be used as an instrument but it is NOT an instrument.

U can believe that all u want but it is NOT an instrument.

So the logical next question would be..... Why isn't it?

Militant said:

Graycap23 said:

The voice can be used as an instrument but it is NOT an instrument.

U can believe that all u want but it is NOT an instrument.

So the logical next question would be..... Why isn't it?

Can I buy a voice at the store and play it?

Isn't a musician someone who plays/performs or writes music?

I thought someone who played an instrument was called an instrumentalist