Timmy84 said:

You mean you're bringing attention to what's "ruining" music for you. I just avoid bad music.

Music has never been "ruined" to me. I've never understood terms like "cheesy" or "guilty pleasures". I either like it or I don't. I'm not embarrased about anything I listen to. It's pretty silly to waste time griping about what you don't like or criticizing someone else's tastes, when there's plenty of other stuff out there to listen to. If people want radio to spoonfeed them "hits", then they have no right to complain about what they're being served if they continue to listen to it.

MickyDolenz said:

Timmy84 said:

You mean you're bringing attention to what's "ruining" music for you. I just avoid bad music.

Music has never been "ruined" to me. I've never understood terms like "cheesy" or "guilty pleasures". I either like it or I don't. I'm not embarrased about anything I listen to. It's pretty silly to waste time griping about what you don't like or criticizing someone else's tastes, when there's plenty of other stuff out there to listen to. If people want radio to spoonfeed them "hits", then they have no right to complain about what they're being served if they continue to listen to it.

True.

Artists/Bands that have been listed, at least, two times:

American Idol winners

Backstreet Boys

Beyonce

Boyzone

Britney Spears

Chris Brown

Creed

Hannah Montana

Jonas Bros.

Justin Bieber

Ke$ha

Madonna

Mariah Carey

Milli Vanilli

Nirvana

Pat Boone

Rihanna

Sean "Diddy" Combs

Vanilla Ice

Whitney Houston

-

PRINCE. While I have always loved what he does musically (i.e. incorporating different non-traditional elements, going into heavy pop veins, hard rock veins, soul veins etc. etc.) I may not like it. But I have always appreciated his adventurous nature. Unfortunately many of the people who were following Prince, and sucking on his tit with wild abandon, already had toxic sludge in their systems and really were just masterbating and spewing something that resembled Prince all over the place.

JoeTyler said:

A great song is a great song and always reaches popularity no matter what. If you take a look at the underground,

you'll see that's full of bands that may have an interesting sound but not great songs. It's been that way since the 80s.

That's all subjective imo. What's great to you might be garbage to others. As far as i know, there are no written golden rules or guaranteed formulas about what a great song is or makes period, maybe with the exception that it has to reach and appeal to a majority of listeners in case you aim at the commercial market. People, personal tastes, new creative ideas and sound technology keep changing the market demographics.

MickyDolenz said:

Timmy84 said:

You mean you're bringing attention to what's "ruining" music for you. I just avoid bad music.

Music has never been "ruined" to me. I've never understood terms like "cheesy" or "guilty pleasures". I either like it or I don't. I'm not embarrased about anything I listen to. It's pretty silly to waste time griping about what you don't like or criticizing someone else's tastes, when there's plenty of other stuff out there to listen to. If people want radio to spoonfeed them "hits", then they have no right to complain about what they're being served if they continue to listen to it.

Preach It!!

MickyDolenz said: Who was responsible for telling large funk bands like Cameo to lose the horn sections, to pare down and make synth based music.

The fun thing is that Cameo actually didn't record that many albums without horns."Style" from 1983 is one of the few i can think of which is a totally synthesized

album. Their whole sound became indeed more electronic but they still kept mixing horns on albums such as "Alligator Woman" (Soul Army), "She's Strange" (Talking

Out The Side Of Your Neck / Love You Anyway / Hangin' Downtown), "Single Life" (I've Got Your Image), "Word Up" (Word Up /You Can Have The World), "Machismo"

(You Make Me Work / Skin I'm In / In The Night / Pretty Girls / Soul Tightened). And the majority of their live shows continued to include a solid horn section.

Shango said:

JoeTyler said:

A great song is a great song and always reaches popularity no matter what. If you take a look at the underground,

you'll see that's full of bands that may have an interesting sound but not great songs. It's been that way since the 80s.

That's all subjective imo.

of course it is

any orger can come here and post his/her own Top10

I thought that was clear.. lol

I see

But my eyebrow raises when some opinions are stated as facts lol.

Shango said:

I see

But my penis raises when some opinions are stated as facts lol.

That's called "debate"

where's your top10?

Lol, i don't really have a problem when people dig stuff which i don't. Each their own

MickyDolenz said:

Timmy84 said:

If people want radio to spoonfeed them "hits", then they have no right to complain about what they're being served if they continue to listen to it.

I don't listen to it and haven't for probably 15 years but the reason to complain is because the good shit is underground and the bullshit is above ground on the radio. I don't waste my time "looking for good new music" that is hidden either on top of the highest mountain or at the bottom of the deepest ocean. I simply just listen to my old music and say "fuck you" to any current artists.

But if the subject comes up, I'm sure as hell not going to lie about what I think of this bullshit these days that's called "music". And besides, bitchng is fun. Not only is it letting off steam but it's something to entertain yourself during the time period that could have been spent listening to something good on the radio if it still existed. If they ain't got what it takes to entertain you musically, then entertain yourself by talking about them like a dog. If they are going to be called entertainers, make good and damn sure you get some type of entertainment out of them.

Just like with TV. I hate 90% of what's on TV because it's all reality shows. I don't even have cable anymore but about once a week, some damn bitch calls me up on my phone with some cable offer she wants to sell me. Do I simply say "no thank you" and hang up. Hell naw! If it weren't for those damn reality shows, I could be entertaining myself by watching TV. So what do I do? I entertain myself by shitting all over her cable service to her on the telephone and by telling her that I wouldn't take that bullshit if she were to give it to me for free. I continue to tell her that the motherfuckers don't want to spend no money making TV shows but they want me to spend my money to see the cheapest made programming they can possibly make which is reality shows. Hey, the bitch called me, I didn't call her. If a motherfucker wants to know why I don't want their service, I'm not polite and simply say "no thank you". I'm a bitch, I tell them why and don't leave out no stops. They must enjoy my little speech because they keep calling my ass back about once a week.

JoeTyler said:

Shango said:

I see

But my penis raises when some opinions are stated as facts lol.

That's called "debate"

where's your top10?

Fux! ... i just noticed

http://www.texaschapbookp.../penis.gif

[Edited 3/2/11 14:16pm]

Here's a good example when a source outside a label has influence about what should be released as a single :

segment from "Nobody Can Be You – The Story Of Steve Arrington of Slave & Steve Arrington’s Hall Of Fame – Fall 2010 by JayQuan"

JQ: "...Stone Jam was the next lp. Was Watching You the first single from that album?..."

SA: "...Actually Sizzling Hot was the first single from Stone Jam. The reason people think that Watching You was first, was because Sizzling Hot was out for only 2 weeks, and Frankie Crocker – the biggest DJ in the world at the time wouldn’t play Sizzling Hot. He said that the hit on the album was Watching You! He had so much power that Atlantic pulled Sizzling Hot and released Watching You. If it wasn’t for Frankie Crocker, Watching You might not be what it is today!! You never know with those kinda things man..."

http://thafoundation.com/stevea.html

As you can see, from the website of orger Jayquan (interview-link recently also posted here in the Non-Prince section)

Shango said:

http://www.texaschapbookp.../penis.gif

!

JoeTyler said:

Artists/Bands that have been listed, at least, two times:

American Idol winners

Backstreet Boys

Beyonce

Boyzone

Britney Spears

Chris Brown

Creed

Hannah Montana

Jonas Bros.

Justin Bieber

Ke$ha

Madonna

Mariah Carey

Milli Vanilli

Nirvana

Pat Boone

Rihanna

Sean "Diddy" Combs

Vanilla Ice

Whitney Houston

-

lady gaga was listed at least twice

bias?

sorry to insist that this be recognized... she and her whole shtick is ick.

jeidee said:

JoeTyler said:

Artists/Bands that have been listed, at least, two times:

American Idol winners

Backstreet Boys

Beyonce

Boyzone

Britney Spears

Chris Brown

Creed

Hannah Montana

Jonas Bros.

Justin Bieber

Ke$ha

Madonna

Mariah Carey

Milli Vanilli

Nirvana

Pat Boone

Rihanna

Sean "Diddy" Combs

Vanilla Ice

Whitney Houston

-

lady gaga was listed at least twice

bias?

sorry to insist that this be recognized... she and her whole shtick is ick.

lol so you noticed it uh?

damn...

lol

JoeTyler said:

BlaqueKnight said:

The fact that anyone would blame the artists when all of the business decisions lie in the hands of executives proves that people have been effectively brainwashed and properly misdirected.

People are conditioned not to blame companies and to seek out individuals to scapegoat.

You are all to blame for pop music being ruined. You buy into the conditioning, so its on you, too. Who runs to the store and buys every little trend record the execs lay out for you with millions of dollars of promotion money behind it? They couldn't do it if it wasn't funded by someone. Congrats. You all helped.

I buy music I like and no one has ruined any musical experiences for me. I learned to stop buying music I don't like and don't support artists that stop making music I like to go "experimental" or whatever.

If everyone did this, the public would have much more say-so as to what's "hot" but instead we lazily sit around and wait for the labels to hand us the choices they want us to have. You want to place blame - start at the mirror.

[Edited 3/1/11 8:22am]

what kind of bullshit is this?? I think you're confused...

I couldn't disagree more. If a band is crappy, the band is guilty; if that crappy band is promoted by a company/label, that label is guilty; if 8.000.000 people buy the album of that crappy band, those 8.000.000 people are guilty, NOT THE REST OF US.

And if that label predicts that a good band will only sell 500.000 copies because their sound is not commercial or "different", and therefore decides not to promote them correctly or even to drop them, the label is guilty, not the rest of us.

I think you're missing BK's valid point in his first sentence.

I notice in your opening post that you have Whitney Houston at #2 for artist/band that ruined pop music (your opinion of course). But instead of blaming Whitney, blame her record label exec Clive Davis for giving the chocolate covered valley girl from New Jersey a record deal in the first place!

.

Timmy84 said:

Clive Davis definitely played a hand in the "ruin" of popular music. Let's keep it real. Without him, we wouldn't have Whitney. Real talk.

Exactly.

TonyVanDam said:

JoeTyler said:

what kind of bullshit is this?? I think you're confused...

I couldn't disagree more. If a band is crappy, the band is guilty; if that crappy band is promoted by a company/label, that label is guilty; if 8.000.000 people buy the album of that crappy band, those 8.000.000 people are guilty, NOT THE REST OF US.

And if that label predicts that a good band will only sell 500.000 copies because their sound is not commercial or "different", and therefore decides not to promote them correctly or even to drop them, the label is guilty, not the rest of us.

I think you're missing BK's valid point in his first sentence.

I notice in your opening post that you have Whitney Houston at #2 for artist/band that ruined pop music (your opinion of course). But instead of blaming Whitney, blame her record label exec Clive Davis for giving the chocolate covered valley girl from New Jersey a record deal in the first place!

.

ahhh, but that's exactly why I meant, both Clive and Whitney are guilty. Whitney still had the chance to say "Clive, honey, look: this sound sucks, is too thin, I wanna be like Teena Marie or Aretha, I'm looking for that sound", Clive "that sound is old and too black, do you want to be a global superstar or just he next r&B darling?", Whitney: "Ok, I'll sell my soul ($)"...

Whitney decided to follow the easy/wrong path. IT'S HER FAULT.

TonyVanDam said:

I notice in your opening post that you have Whitney Houston at #2 for artist/band that ruined pop music (your opinion of course).

Of course that's his opinion and his opinion is WRONG. She should have been listed at #1.

JoeTyler said:

TonyVanDam said:

I think you're missing BK's valid point in his first sentence.

I notice in your opening post that you have Whitney Houston at #2 for artist/band that ruined pop music (your opinion of course). But instead of blaming Whitney, blame her record label exec Clive Davis for giving the chocolate covered valley girl from New Jersey a record deal in the first place!

.

ahhh, but that's exactly why I meant, both Clive and Whitney are guilty. Whitney still had the chance to say "Clive, honey, look: this sound sucks, is too thin, I wanna be like Teena Marie or Aretha, I'm looking for that sound", Clive "that sound is old and too black, do you want to be a global superstar or just he next r&B darling?", Whitney: "Ok, I'll sell my soul ($)"...

Whitney decided to follow the easy/wrong path. IT'S HER FAULT.

That's exactly what that little goodie two shoes cheerleader princess did. She has a mouth and she knows how to say "no", especially considering that she has famous people in her family that could have got her another recording contract. I honestly don't think she could have pulled off any jams though because from what I've seen, she just ain't got it in her.

I put a lot of the blame on R&B radio though. Why the hell are you going to play a black version of some Debbie Boone type shit alongside of some hard shit like The Barkays or Midnight Star unless you are playing the little Barbie princess just because she's black. Her songs obviously didn't fit in with the format and I guarantee you that Debbie Boone didn't get played on rock radio alongside of AC/DC. Playing Shitney on R&B radio in 1985 was just rediculous because she fit in about as much as the girl in the Bruce Springsteen "Dancing In The Dark" video coming down the "Soul Train" line.

.

.

.

[Edited 3/3/11 6:57am]

vainandy said:

JoeTyler said:

ahhh, but that's exactly why I meant, both Clive and Whitney are guilty. Whitney still had the chance to say "Clive, honey, look: this sound sucks, is too thin, I wanna be like Teena Marie or Aretha, I'm looking for that sound", Clive "that sound is old and too black, do you want to be a global superstar or just he next r&B darling?", Whitney: "Ok, I'll sell my soul ($)"...

Whitney decided to follow the easy/wrong path. IT'S HER FAULT.

That's exactly what that little goodie two shoes cheerleader princess did. She has a mouth and she knows how to say "no", especially considering that she has famous people in her family that could have got her another recording contract. I honestly don't think she could have pulled off any jams though because from what I've seen, she just ain't got it in her.

I put a lot of the blame on R&B radio though. Why the hell are you going to play a black version of some Debbie Boone type shit alongside of some hard shit like The Barkays or Midnight Star unless you are playing the little Barbie princess just because she's black. Her songs obviously didn't fit in with the format and I guarantee you that Debbie Boone didn't get played on rock radio alongside of AC/DC. Playing Shitney on R&B radio in 1985 was just rediculous because she fit in about as much as the girl in the Bruce Springsteen "Dancing In The Dark" video coming down the "Soul Train" line.

.

.

.

[Edited 3/3/11 6:57am]

vainandy said:

TonyVanDam said:

I notice in your opening post that you have Whitney Houston at #2 for artist/band that ruined pop music (your opinion of course).

Of course that's his opinion and his opinion is WRONG. She should have been listed at #1.

the order of my Top10 is chronological, lol

anyway, Whitney deserves to be in my personal top3, with Poison and Deicide/Usher, I can't pick one...

Why are y'all afraid to admit that Whitney didn't have the power to say no? Money make you weak. Look up Milli Vanilli.

Timmy84 said:

Why are y'all afraid to admit that Whitney didn't have the power to say no? Money make you weak. Look up Milli Vanilli.

Ice-T had the power...

Number uno - 1 in my book is Michael Jackson 4 making video's more important than the actual music.

JoeTyler said:

Timmy84 said:

Why are y'all afraid to admit that Whitney didn't have the power to say no? Money make you weak. Look up Milli Vanilli.

Ice-T had the power...

That's because he didn't take no shit. HUSTLERS don't take no shit. Whitney was NOT a hustler. DIFFERENCE!

Lots of the old school artists were hustlers, some of them got what they want and some had to half-play the system before getting back at the label president. You forget Stevie Wonder was an ultimate hustler. He can play nice and then before you know it, he'll tell you to PAY up, he'll challenge you to come up with whatever it is you demand and then he'll tell you what he WANTS and before you know it, BAM!

Whitney just doesn't have that power. Not even today. She just doesn't.

Graycap23 said:

Number uno - 1 in my book is Michael Jackson 4 making video's more important than the actual music.

No it's to everyone who thought they can do what Michael did, i.e., the label. Michael's deal was to be independent on how to market. People followed him and in turn abused it. You always got those follow the leader types that rather than lead by example, they follow and on purpose. So no I can't blame Michael for that.