JoeTyler said:

kitbradley said:

Not in any particular order:

4. Eminem

really? one of the few respectable rappers of the 00's ?

I don't hate Em's style, but how is rapping about killing your wife, and degrading faggots respectable?

BklynBabe said:

JoeTyler said:

really? one of the few respectable rappers of the 00's ?

I don't hate Em's style, but how is rapping about killing your wife, and degrading faggots respectable?

I call that controversy, or unreal fun

JoeTyler said:

BklynBabe said:

I don't hate Em's style, but how is rapping about killing your wife, and degrading faggots respectable?

I call that controversy, or unreal fun

I call it stupid.

Timmy84 said:

JoeTyler said:

I call that controversy, or unreal fun

I call it stupid.

c'mon, we all need controversy and bullshit sometimes

JoeTyler said:

Timmy84 said:

I call it stupid.

c'mon, we all need controversy and bullshit sometimes

Controversy and bullshit is cool (I like Marilyn Manson's shit and DMX was fucking crazy at times) but when you put personal business and try to make it gore-riffic, you lose points with me. I don't know. I think Marshall has demons and he tries too hard to be artistic. I would hear one of his songs when he talks about killing Kim and be like "dude, seriously?" Like I like some gore references and I guess in '99 it was cool for him to do that stuff but when he did it every other album, it's like "okay we're tired of this gimmick." Just the way I look at it.

Timmy84 said:

JoeTyler said:

c'mon, we all need controversy and bullshit sometimes

Controversy and bullshit is cool (I like Marilyn Manson's shit and DMX was fucking crazy at times) but when you put personal business and try to make it gore-riffic, you lose points with me. I don't know. I think Marshall has demons and he tries too hard to be artistic. I would hear one of his songs when he talks about killing Kim and be like "dude, seriously?" Like I like some gore references and I guess in '99 it was cool for him to do that stuff but when he did it every other album, it's like "okay we're tired of this gimmick." Just the way I look at it.

Hmm, I'm no Eminem expert cuz I only own his first two albums + Recovery (and the Hits album) but if he really kept bullshitting about killing Kim during the rest of the 00's, hell then that was truly tiresome/silly for sure

But I like controversy, I like NWA's controversy, Ice Cube controversy, Madonna controversy (when she was mean lol), etc.

BklynBabe said:

I don't hate Em's style, but how is rapping about killing your wife

That's not original.

MickyDolenz said:

BklynBabe said:

I don't hate Em's style, but how is rapping about killing your wife

That's not original.

I had a feeling this wasn't new but wasn't sure. Thank you! It's funny how some stuff just pass you by especially when someone popularizes it as much as Eminem did.

Timmy84 said:

JoeTyler said:

c'mon, we all need controversy and bullshit sometimes

Controversy and bullshit is cool (I like Marilyn Manson's shit and DMX was fucking crazy at times) but when you put personal business and try to make it gore-riffic, you lose points with me. I don't know. I think Marshall has demons and he tries too hard to be artistic. I would hear one of his songs when he talks about killing Kim and be like "dude, seriously?" Like I like some gore references and I guess in '99 it was cool for him to do that stuff but when he did it every other album, it's like "okay we're tired of this gimmick." Just the way I look at it.

You mean like this song:

I'm not really a fan of rap but I do like quite a few of Eminem's songs but the lyrics to this one are a little over the top. Eminem and violence against his ex wife/women in general is kind of similar to Janet Jackson and her singing about sex. It was fine when she did the janet album but then on The Velvet Rope she was just repeating herself.

MickyDolenz said:

BklynBabe said:

I don't hate Em's style, but how is rapping about killing your wife

That's not original.

Who said it was original?

rialb said:

Timmy84 said:

Controversy and bullshit is cool (I like Marilyn Manson's shit and DMX was fucking crazy at times) but when you put personal business and try to make it gore-riffic, you lose points with me. I don't know. I think Marshall has demons and he tries too hard to be artistic. I would hear one of his songs when he talks about killing Kim and be like "dude, seriously?" Like I like some gore references and I guess in '99 it was cool for him to do that stuff but when he did it every other album, it's like "okay we're tired of this gimmick." Just the way I look at it.

You mean like this song:

I'm not really a fan of rap but I do like quite a few of Eminem's songs but the lyrics to this one are a little over the top. Eminem and violence against his ex wife/women in general is kind of similar to Janet Jackson and her singing about sex. It was fine when she did the janet album but then on The Velvet Rope she was just repeating herself.

Some would argue rock and roll ruined popular music well before 1960.

namepeace said:

Some would argue rock and roll ruined popular music well before 1960.

Yeah I mentioned that on one of the pages. But yeah people would try to make that "argument". lol music has been "ruined" in the last 50, 60, maybe 70 years. People might have thought jazz ruined pop music or ragtime or country or the blues. It's weird.

Artists didn't ruin pop music; businessmen did.

Timmy84 said:

namepeace said:

Some would argue rock and roll ruined popular music well before 1960.

Yeah I mentioned that on one of the pages. But yeah people would try to make that "argument". lol music has been "ruined" in the last 50, 60, maybe 70 years. People might have thought jazz ruined pop music or ragtime or country or the blues. It's weird.

not at all surprised you'd covered that somewhere.

the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view. -- Obi-Wan Kenobi (1983)

the first person I thought of was Stanley Crouch:

Just turn on MTV and see what kind of condition we are in-anything working against that is good," Crouch says. "Rock and roll and rap are about adolescent sentiments, which are completely foreign to jazz. In jazz, the focus is on adult experiences, and the skills required to express them are far more sophisticated than in rock, because they are of greater emotional complexity. It's good for young people to test themselves in the arena of jazz, because it forces them to confront the fact that there are some things out there which are more profound than what they're dealing with."

http://www.robertboynton....icle_id=30

BlaqueKnight said:

Artists didn't ruin pop music; businessmen did.

cosign!

1) Nsync/Backstreet/Lou Perlman

2) Lady Gaga

3) Britney Spears

4) Timbaland (post 2000)

5) Kanye West (post College Dropout - aka fame/money corrupts)

6) Eminem

7) Master P

8) Lil Wayne

9) "MURDER INC."

10) Disney (IN GENERAL)

JoeTyler said:

BklynBabe said:

I don't hate Em's style, but how is rapping about killing your wife, and degrading faggots respectable?

I call that controversy, or unreal fun

O see I call it bigotry/misogyny.

Inspiring the young generation to degrade anyone who isn't, like, "like them".

Fuck Eminem and every idiot who supported him. If he talked about black folk the way he talks about women or gay people y'all would crucify him.

jeidee said:

JoeTyler said:

I call that controversy, or unreal fun

O see I call it bigotry/misogyny.

Inspiring the young generation to degrade anyone who isn't, like, "like them".

Fuck Eminem and every idiot who supported him. If he talked about black folk the way he talks about women or gay people y'all would crucify him.

acording to STEVIE WONDER and many others, he DID insult black people. STEVIE got on eminem when he did that song about michael. "He has succeeded on the backs of people predominantly in that lower pay bracket, people of colour. So for him to come out like that is bull----."

MickyDolenz said:

BklynBabe said:

I don't hate Em's style, but how is rapping about killing your wife

That's not original.

'run for your life'- popularized by the beatles... songs by bessie smith, tampa red, etc.

MJJstudent said:

jeidee said:

O see I call it bigotry/misogyny.

Inspiring the young generation to degrade anyone who isn't, like, "like them".

Fuck Eminem and every idiot who supported him. If he talked about black folk the way he talks about women or gay people y'all would crucify him.

acording to STEVIE WONDER and many others, he DID insult black people. STEVIE got on eminem when he did that song about michael. "He has succeeded on the backs of people predominantly in that lower pay bracket, people of colour. So for him to come out like that is bull----."

So if Eminem was black would that have been ok? Is Stevie saying that it is ok to exploit people as long as their skin is the same colour as yours? I'm sorry but that is BS. If it is wrong for Eminem then it is wrong for all rappers and Stevie should have called them all out.

MJJstudent said:

jeidee said:

O see I call it bigotry/misogyny.

Inspiring the young generation to degrade anyone who isn't, like, "like them".

Fuck Eminem and every idiot who supported him. If he talked about black folk the way he talks about women or gay people y'all would crucify him.

acording to STEVIE WONDER and many others, he DID insult black people. STEVIE got on eminem when he did that song about michael. "He has succeeded on the backs of people predominantly in that lower pay bracket, people of colour. So for him to come out like that is bull----."

so, if you insult Michael, you're basically insulting black people??

amazing

1. Nirvana, Alice in Chains, and every other group from the early to mid 1990s that couldn’t stop whining about how hard it was to be white and middle class in a nation with a booming economy. “Boo-hoo, my parents loved me, now I’m going to shoot myself full of junk and cry about what a fucking idiot I am.”

2. Clearchannel. Not a band, but lets face it, they really fucked up radio, and nobody in the record business is competent enough to envision a world without radio.

Eminem never made a song insulting Michael. It was just a few scenes in that one video, where, just like in many of his videos, he makes fun of many celebrities. I'm obviously a huge MJ fan but I hate when folks act like Eminem was personally taking jabs at Michael for no reason. He makes fun of everyone. That's just what he does. Nobody is exempt, not even people he's friends with. I think Michael understood this and forgave him.

rialb said:

MJJstudent said:

acording to STEVIE WONDER and many others, he DID insult black people. STEVIE got on eminem when he did that song about michael. "He has succeeded on the backs of people predominantly in that lower pay bracket, people of colour. So for him to come out like that is bull----."

So if Eminem was black would that have been ok? Is Stevie saying that it is ok to exploit people as long as their skin is the same colour as yours? I'm sorry but that is BS. If it is wrong for Eminem then it is wrong for all rappers and Stevie should have called them all out.

i'm just relaying what STEVIE said. he's called out a lot of people, but i think he focused on michael. i personally never heard the song, so...

Militant said:

Eminem never made a song insulting Michael. It was just a few scenes in that one video, where, just like in many of his videos, he makes fun of many celebrities. I'm obviously a huge MJ fan but I hate when folks act like Eminem was personally taking jabs at Michael for no reason. He makes fun of everyone. That's just what he does. Nobody is exempt, not even people he's friends with. I think Michael understood this and forgave him.

again, i never heard the song. i am going by the interview michael did with rivera (where it doesn't seem to me like he forgave eminem, but you never know), as well as the STEVIE quote. that's all i know of this whole thing. i don't really know eminem's music, and what i heard i don't like, so...

apparently eminem did a '9/11' truth comment, which i find interesting, and i wanna hear though! and i know he did that anti-george w. bush song. but i don't know much about eminem. don't shoot the messenger, hee hee!

jeidee said:

1) Nsync/Backstreet/Lou Perlman

2) Lady Gaga

3) Britney Spears

4) Timbaland (post 2000)

5) Kanye West (post College Dropout - aka fame/money corrupts)

6) Eminem

7) Master P

8) Lil Wayne

9) "MURDER INC."

10) Disney (IN GENERAL)

I'm in total agreement with this list. Honorable mention would be American Idol

To some, "Just Lose It" was offensive, to others, it was a joke and he wasn't trying to say Michael was guilty. Stevie obviously felt a certain way about it. Michael felt a certain way about it. Here's the lyrics, now y'all can debate: art or just foul:

Just Lose It

(M. Mathers/A. Young)

[Intro]
[Eminem making sounds]
Ok..
Guess who's back?
Back again
Shady's back
Tell a friend
Whaaaaaaaa

Now everyone report to the dance floor
To the dance floor, to the dance floor
Now everyone report to the dance floor
Alright Stop!.....Pajama time

[Verse 1]
Come here little kiddies, On my lap
Guess who's back with a brand new rap?
And I don't mean rap as in a new case of child molestation accusation
(HA-HA-HA-HA-HA)
No worries, papa's got a brand new bag of toys
What else could I possibly do to make noise?
I done touched on everything, but little boys
That's not a stab at Michael
That's just a metaphor, I'm just psycho
I go a little bit crazy sometimes
I get a little bit out of control with my rhymes
Good God, dip, do a little slide
Bend down, touch your toes and just glide
Up the center of the dance floor
Like TP for my bunghole
And it's cool if you let one go
Nobody's gonna know, who'd hear it?
Give a little "poot poot", it's OK! [Fart Sound]
Oops my cd just skipped
And everyone just heard you let one rip

[Chorus]
Now I'm gonna make you dance
It's your chance
Yeah boy shake that ass
Oops I mean girl girl girl girl
Girl you know you're my world
Alright now lose it
(HA-HA-HA-HA-HA)
Just lose it
(HA-HA-HA-HA-HA)
Go crazy
(HA-HA-HA-HA-HA)
Oh baby
(HA-HA)
Oh baby, baby
(HA-HA)

[Verse 2]
It's Friday and it's my day
Just to party all the way to sunday
Maybe til monday, I dunno what day
Everyday's just a holiday
Crusin' on the freeway
Feelin' kinda breezy
Got the top down, lettin' my hair blow
I dunno where I'm goin'
All I know is when I get there
Someone's gonna "touch my body"

Excuse me miss, I don't mean to sound like a jerk
But I'm feelin' just a little stressed out from work
Could you punch me in the stomach and pull my hair?
Spit on me, maybe gouge my eyes out? (Yeah)
Now, what's your name girl?
What's your sign?
[Dr Dre] "Man, you must be up out your mind"
DRE! (HA-HA)
Beer Goggles! blind!
I'm just tryna unwind now I'm

[Chorus]
Now I'm gonna make you dance
It's your chance
Yeah boy shake that ass
Oops I mean girl girl girl girl
Girl you know you're my world
Alright now lose it
(HA-HA-HA-HA-HA)
Just lose it
(HA-HA-HA-HA-HA)
Go crazy
(HA-HA-HA-HA-HA)
Oh baby
(HA-HA)
Oh baby, baby
(HA-HA)

[Verse 3]
It's Tuesday and I'm locked up
I'm in jail and I don't know what happend
They say I was running butt naked
Down the street screaming
(HA-HA-HA-HA-HA)
Well I'm sorry, I don't remember
All I know is this much
I'm not guilty
They said, "Save it, boy we gotcha you on tape
yellin' at an old lady 'touch my body!'"

Now this is the part where the rap breaks down
It gets real intense, no one makes a sound
Everything looks like it's 8 Mile now
The beat comes back and everybody lose themselves
Snap back to reality
Look it's B.Rabbit!
Yo you signed me up to battle!?
I'm a grown man!
Chubba chubba chubba chubba chubba chubbie
I don't have any lines to go right here so, chubba teletubbie!
Fella's (WHAT?!) Fella's (WHAT?!)
Grab you left nut, make right one jealous (what?)
Black girls
White girls
Skinny girls
Fat girls
Tall girls
Small girls
I'm callin' all girls
Everyone report to the dance floor
It's your chance for a little romance whore
Butt squeezin' it's the season
Just go (HA-HA-HA-HA)
It's so appeasin'

[Chorus]
Now I'm gonna make you dance
It's your chance
Yeah boy shake that ass
Oops I mean girl girl girl girl
Girl you know you're my world
Alright now lose it
(HA-HA-HA-HA-HA)
Just lose it
(HA-HA-HA-HA-HA)
Go crazy
(HA-HA-HA-HA-HA)
Oh baby
(HA-HA)
Oh baby, baby
(HA-HA)

[Outro]
UmMmMmm touch my body
UmMmMmm touch my body
Ooh boy just touch my body
I mean girl just touch my body

----

The video (with him imitating other artists, MJ included):

Happy debating. My work here is done.

MJJstudent said:

Militant said:

Eminem never made a song insulting Michael. It was just a few scenes in that one video, where, just like in many of his videos, he makes fun of many celebrities. I'm obviously a huge MJ fan but I hate when folks act like Eminem was personally taking jabs at Michael for no reason. He makes fun of everyone. That's just what he does. Nobody is exempt, not even people he's friends with. I think Michael understood this and forgave him.

again, i never heard the song. i am going by the interview michael did with rivera (where it doesn't seem to me like he forgave eminem, but you never know), as well as the STEVIE quote. that's all i know of this whole thing. i don't really know eminem's music, and what i heard i don't like, so...

apparently eminem did a '9/11' truth comment, which i find interesting, and i wanna hear though! and i know he did that anti-george w. bush song. but i don't know much about eminem. don't shoot the messenger, hee hee!

Timmy84 said:

To some, "Just Lose It" was offensive, to others, it was a joke and he wasn't trying to say Michael was guilty. Stevie obviously felt a certain way about it. Michael felt a certain way about it. Here's the lyrics, now y'all can debate: art or just foul:

Just Lose It

(M. Mathers/A. Young)

[Intro]
[Eminem making sounds]
Ok..
Guess who's back?
Back again
Shady's back
Tell a friend
Whaaaaaaaa

Now everyone report to the dance floor
To the dance floor, to the dance floor
Now everyone report to the dance floor
Alright Stop!.....Pajama time

[Verse 1]
Come here little kiddies, On my lap
Guess who's back with a brand new rap?
And I don't mean rap as in a new case of child molestation accusation
(HA-HA-HA-HA-HA)
No worries, papa's got a brand new bag of toys
What else could I possibly do to make noise?
I done touched on everything, but little boys
That's not a stab at Michael
That's just a metaphor, I'm just psycho
I go a little bit crazy sometimes
I get a little bit out of control with my rhymes
Good God, dip, do a little slide
Bend down, touch your toes and just glide
Up the center of the dance floor
Like TP for my bunghole
And it's cool if you let one go
Nobody's gonna know, who'd hear it?
Give a little "poot poot", it's OK! [Fart Sound]
Oops my cd just skipped
And everyone just heard you let one rip

[Chorus]
Now I'm gonna make you dance
It's your chance
Yeah boy shake that ass
Oops I mean girl girl girl girl
Girl you know you're my world
Alright now lose it
(HA-HA-HA-HA-HA)
Just lose it
(HA-HA-HA-HA-HA)
Go crazy
(HA-HA-HA-HA-HA)
Oh baby
(HA-HA)
Oh baby, baby
(HA-HA)

[Verse 2]
It's Friday and it's my day
Just to party all the way to sunday
Maybe til monday, I dunno what day
Everyday's just a holiday
Crusin' on the freeway
Feelin' kinda breezy
Got the top down, lettin' my hair blow
I dunno where I'm goin'
All I know is when I get there
Someone's gonna "touch my body"

Excuse me miss, I don't mean to sound like a jerk
But I'm feelin' just a little stressed out from work
Could you punch me in the stomach and pull my hair?
Spit on me, maybe gouge my eyes out? (Yeah)
Now, what's your name girl?
What's your sign?
[Dr Dre] "Man, you must be up out your mind"
DRE! (HA-HA)
Beer Goggles! blind!
I'm just tryna unwind now I'm

[Chorus]
Now I'm gonna make you dance
It's your chance
Yeah boy shake that ass
Oops I mean girl girl girl girl
Girl you know you're my world
Alright now lose it
(HA-HA-HA-HA-HA)
Just lose it
(HA-HA-HA-HA-HA)
Go crazy
(HA-HA-HA-HA-HA)
Oh baby
(HA-HA)
Oh baby, baby
(HA-HA)

[Verse 3]
It's Tuesday and I'm locked up
I'm in jail and I don't know what happend
They say I was running butt naked
Down the street screaming
(HA-HA-HA-HA-HA)
Well I'm sorry, I don't remember
All I know is this much
I'm not guilty
They said, "Save it, boy we gotcha you on tape
yellin' at an old lady 'touch my body!'"

Now this is the part where the rap breaks down
It gets real intense, no one makes a sound
Everything looks like it's 8 Mile now
The beat comes back and everybody lose themselves
Snap back to reality
Look it's B.Rabbit!
Yo you signed me up to battle!?
I'm a grown man!
Chubba chubba chubba chubba chubba chubbie
I don't have any lines to go right here so, chubba teletubbie!
Fella's (WHAT?!) Fella's (WHAT?!)
Grab you left nut, make right one jealous (what?)
Black girls
White girls
Skinny girls
Fat girls
Tall girls
Small girls
I'm callin' all girls
Everyone report to the dance floor
It's your chance for a little romance whore
Butt squeezin' it's the season
Just go (HA-HA-HA-HA)
It's so appeasin'

[Chorus]
Now I'm gonna make you dance
It's your chance
Yeah boy shake that ass
Oops I mean girl girl girl girl
Girl you know you're my world
Alright now lose it
(HA-HA-HA-HA-HA)
Just lose it
(HA-HA-HA-HA-HA)
Go crazy
(HA-HA-HA-HA-HA)
Oh baby
(HA-HA)
Oh baby, baby
(HA-HA)

[Outro]
UmMmMmm touch my body
UmMmMmm touch my body
Ooh boy just touch my body
I mean girl just touch my body

----

The video (with him imitating other artists, MJ included):

Happy debating. My work here is done.

thanks for clearing it up, tim. i still haven't checked the song, and i'm not too into the lyrics; but the lyrics clearly say that he wasn't making fun of michael. you can't really argue with that.