Timmy84 said:

MJJstudent said:

again, i never heard the song. i am going by the interview michael did with rivera (where it doesn't seem to me like he forgave eminem, but you never know), as well as the STEVIE quote. that's all i know of this whole thing. i don't really know eminem's music, and what i heard i don't like, so...

apparently eminem did a '9/11' truth comment, which i find interesting, and i wanna hear though! and i know he did that anti-george w. bush song. but i don't know much about eminem. don't shoot the messenger, hee hee!

this is the one, yes...

1. Milli Vanilli, took all the credibility out of pop music for a while, lypsynching scandals continued featuring Betty Boo and Madonna and more lately Ashlee Simpson

2. Vanilla Ice, his lamo hit totally destroyed credibility levels of white rap, with only Beasties, House of pain and Eminem to do anything to regain it.

3. Shabba Ranks/Buju Banton, Ragga music was on its way to mass acceptance until they let loose with what they should do to gays.

4. Puff Daddy, Diddy, Bugatti Boys whateva his name, Turned rap into corporate schlock, produced many low quality rap acts, (Notorious BIG not included, he was one of the best, but Biggie was doing his own thing long before Puff Daddy). Mass consumption behaviour, reinforcing negative stereotypes etc.

5. Kanye West, we respected him once, but apologising to bush, the grammy losses, his over reliance on sampling and now diamonds in his teeth (Umm Kanye thats called being a hypocrite).

6. Pussy Cat Dolls, again representing voluptuous uncontrolled sexuality in music, reinforced ho stereotypes.

7. Britney Spears, just for not leaving her personal life out of the news, Britney was so stupid at times and did daft things, she just oozed tabloid fodder.

8. The guy who invented sampling, and drum machine loping, it killed off the use of instruments, good songwriting and true musical prowess.

9. Nirvana, sure their negative dirge filled music moved a generation, but when Kurt offed himself it was a selfish waste, he left a lot of people disillusioned.

10. Rolling Stones etc, It is really time for groups with members over 60 who have been rocking since the 60s to call it a day, every Who, Pink Floyd, Rolling Stones. Dylan, Clapton album just sounds like the last.

11. Bonus: Disney Manufactured Crap etc , Lets see, Jonas, Justin Bieber, Miley Cyrus, Idol winners and any other good two shoes pop lite nonsense, have done nothing but to attract potential music consumers from Preschools

Adorecream said:

9. Nirvana, sure their negative dirge filled music moved a generation, but when Kurt offed himself it was a selfish waste, he left a lot of people disillusioned.

agreed. He was "pop music's false messiah"

I can't imagine the huge disappointment and horror that Nirvana's fans suffered in 1994/95...too intense...

The fact that anyone would blame the artists when all of the business decisions lie in the hands of executives proves that people have been effectively brainwashed and properly misdirected.

People are conditioned not to blame companies and to seek out individuals to scapegoat.

You are all to blame for pop music being ruined. You buy into the conditioning, so its on you, too. Who runs to the store and buys every little trend record the execs lay out for you with millions of dollars of promotion money behind it? They couldn't do it if it wasn't funded by someone. Congrats. You all helped.

I buy music I like and no one has ruined any musical experiences for me. I learned to stop buying music I don't like and don't support artists that stop making music I like to go "experimental" or whatever.

If everyone did this, the public would have much more say-so as to what's "hot" but instead we lazily sit around and wait for the labels to hand us the choices they want us to have. You want to place blame - start at the mirror.

[Edited 3/1/11 8:22am]

BlaqueKnight said:

The fact that anyone would blame the artists when all of the business decisions lie in the hands of executives proves that people have been effectively brainwashed and properly misdirected.

People are conditioned not to blame companies and to seek out individuals to scapegoat.

You are all to blame for pop music being ruined. You buy into the conditioning, so its on you, too. Who runs to the store and buys every little trend record the execs lay out for you with millions of dollars of promotion money behind it? They couldn't do it if it wasn't funded by someone. Congrats. You all helped.

I buy music I like and no one has ruined any musical experiences for me. I learned to stop buying music I don't like and don't support artists that stop making music I like to go "experimental" or whatever.

If everyone did this, the public would have much more say-so as to what's "hot" but instead we lazily sit around and wait for the labels to hand us the choices they want us to have. You want to place blame - start at the mirror.

[Edited 3/1/11 8:22am]

what kind of bullshit is this?? I think you're confused...

I couldn't disagree more. If a band is crappy, the band is guilty; if that crappy band is promoted by a company/label, that label is guilty; if 8.000.000 people buy the album of that crappy band, those 8.000.000 people are guilty, NOT THE REST OF US.

And if that label predicts that a good band will only sell 500.000 copies because their sound is not commercial or "different", and therefore decides not to promote them correctly or even to drop them, the label is guilty, not the rest of us.

BlaqueKnight said:

The fact that anyone would blame the artists when all of the business decisions lie in the hands of executives proves that people have been effectively brainwashed and properly misdirected.

You are all to blame for pop music being ruined. You buy into the conditioning, so its on you, too. Who runs to the store and buys every little trend record the execs lay out for you with millions of dollars of promotion money behind it? They couldn't do it if it wasn't funded by someone. Congrats. You all helped.

You want to place blame - start at the mirror.

Yep, pretty much. People are also too concerned with hits, how much someone sold in a week, how popular an act is, and gossip & judge about what they do on their own time. They argue about who sold the most records (ie. Eagles, Michael Jackson, Beatles, Garth Brooks, Elvis, etc.), or who the "King" or "Queen" of so and so is. None of that has anything to do with enjoying music. It's just baseball card statistics. Some people think that because something sells a lot or is played a lot, it's superior in quality to something that isn't popular. All that means is that a conglomerate with a lot of money and power is doing its job well. If Thriller came out on Malaco Records, it wouldn't have done anything, because they didn't have the money and international distribution networks that CBS did.

MickyDolenz said:

BlaqueKnight said:

The fact that anyone would blame the artists when all of the business decisions lie in the hands of executives proves that people have been effectively brainwashed and properly misdirected.

You are all to blame for pop music being ruined. You buy into the conditioning, so its on you, too. Who runs to the store and buys every little trend record the execs lay out for you with millions of dollars of promotion money behind it? They couldn't do it if it wasn't funded by someone. Congrats. You all helped.

You want to place blame - start at the mirror.

Yep, pretty much. People are also too concerned with hits, how much someone sold in a week, how popular an act is, and gossip & judge about what they do on their own time. They argue about who sold the most records (ie. Eagles, Michael Jackson, Beatles, Garth Brooks, Elvis, etc.), or who the "King" or "Queen" of so and so is. None of that has anything to do with enjoying music. It's just baseball card statistics. Some people think that because something sells a lot or is played a lot, it's superior in quality to something that isn't popular. All that means is that a conglomerate with a lot of money and power is doing its job well. If Thriller came out on Malaco Records, it wouldn't have done anything, because they didn't have the money and international distribution networks that CBS did.

I couldn't disagree more. A great song is a great song and always reaches popularity no matter what. If you take a look at the underground, you'll see that's full of bands that may have an interesting sound but not great songs. It's been that way since the 80s.

If Thriller had been released by Malaco (lol) the radio would have played Billie Jean and Beat It due to enthusiastic word of mouth between the people of the industry and radio...

JoeTyler said:

I couldn't disagree more. A great song is a great song and always reaches popularity no matter what. If you take a look at the underground, you'll see that's full of bands that may have an interesting sound but not great songs. It's been that way since the 80s.

If Thriller had been released by Malaco (lol) the radio would have played Billie Jean and Beat It due to enthusiastic word of mouth between the people of the industry and radio...

No, it wouldn't. When has Malaco had any really big hits or had anything played on the radio? They've had a few R&B radio hits, mainly in the 1970's. Malaco doesn't have the payola (promotional) money that CBS or any other big label does. Malaco is a blues and southern soul label. Since when is the blues played on mainstream radio? They wouldn't have had the money or distribution to get Thriller out there and it definitely wouldn't have sold much. Malaco is not an international company either, so how would the non-USA countries have heard it or bought it? They've had few albums that even went gold (500,000). Their biggest selling album in it's whole existence is Johnnie Taylor's 1996 Good Love which went platinum.

MickyDolenz said:

JoeTyler said:

I couldn't disagree more. A great song is a great song and always reaches popularity no matter what. If you take a look at the underground, you'll see that's full of bands that may have an interesting sound but not great songs. It's been that way since the 80s.

If Thriller had been released by Malaco (lol) the radio would have played Billie Jean and Beat It due to enthusiastic word of mouth between the people of the industry and radio...

No, it wouldn't. When has Malaco had any really big hits or had anything played on the radio? They've had a few R&B radio hits, mainly in the 1970's. Malaco doesn't have the payola (promotional) money that CBS or any other big label does. Malaco is a blues and southern soul label. Since when is the blues played on mainstream radio? They wouldn't have had the money or distribution to get Thriller out there and it definitely wouldn't have sold much. Malaco is not an international company either, so how would the non-USA countries have heard it or bought it? They've had few albums that even went gold (500,000). Their biggest selling album in it's whole existence is Johnnie Taylor's 1996 Good Love which went platinum.

what I meant is, if a band writes a hit, you can bet the label (no matter if it's small) will try to heavily promote it. The radio and a new contract with a major label will do the rest. That's the way many hard-rock and alternative bands broke into the mainstream anyway...

I always use the David Bowie example: he was a nobody in the 66-68 years until he finally delivered a big hit (Space Oddity).

[Edited 3/1/11 9:28am]

Didn't I say earlier in this thread that people give artists too much power?

Blues music hasn't been in the mainstream at least in the R&B mainstream since the early 1960s. Only one huge success emerged after the 1960s: B.B. King. Robert Cray got close in the 1980s but it didn't last.

Timmy84 said:

Blues music hasn't been in the mainstream at least in the R&B mainstream since the early 1960s. Only one huge success emerged after the 1960s: B.B. King. Robert Cray got close in the 1980s but it didn't last.

Not surprising. the last huge blues hits are from... well...the early 60s. lol

JoeTyler said:

MickyDolenz said:

No, it wouldn't. When has Malaco had any really big hits or had anything played on the radio? They've had a few R&B radio hits, mainly in the 1970's. Malaco doesn't have the payola (promotional) money that CBS or any other big label does. Malaco is a blues and southern soul label. Since when is the blues played on mainstream radio? They wouldn't have had the money or distribution to get Thriller out there and it definitely wouldn't have sold much. Malaco is not an international company either, so how would the non-USA countries have heard it or bought it? They've had few albums that even went gold (500,000). Their biggest selling album in it's whole existence is Johnnie Taylor's 1996 Good Love which went platinum.

what I meant is, if a band writes a hit, you can bet the label (no matter if it's small) will try to heavily promote it. The radio and a new contract with a major label will do the rest. That's the way many hard-rock and alternative bands broke into the mainstream anyway...

I always use the David Bowie example: he was a nobody in the 66-68 years until he finally delivered a big hit (Space Oddity).

[Edited 3/1/11 9:28am]

David Bowie is not a blues singer. The blues and southern soul doesn't get radio airplay. I never hear B.B. King, who is the best known blues performer. He only had one pop hit, The Thrill Is Gone, unless you count that song he did with U2, and even that didn't get much play. B.B. had R&B hits in the 1950's, when it was really "Rhythm and Blues", but after that nothing, just juke joint and "hole in the wall" play.

MJJstudent said:

Timmy84 said:

To some, "Just Lose It" was offensive, to others, it was a joke and he wasn't trying to say Michael was guilty. Stevie obviously felt a certain way about it. Michael felt a certain way about it. Here's the lyrics, now y'all can debate: art or just foul:

Just Lose It

(M. Mathers/A. Young)

[Intro]
[Eminem making sounds]
Ok..
Guess who's back?
Back again
Shady's back
Tell a friend
Whaaaaaaaa

Now everyone report to the dance floor
To the dance floor, to the dance floor
Now everyone report to the dance floor
Alright Stop!.....Pajama time

[Verse 1]
Come here little kiddies, On my lap
Guess who's back with a brand new rap?
And I don't mean rap as in a new case of child molestation accusation
(HA-HA-HA-HA-HA)
No worries, papa's got a brand new bag of toys
What else could I possibly do to make noise?
I done touched on everything, but little boys
That's not a stab at Michael
That's just a metaphor, I'm just psycho
I go a little bit crazy sometimes
I get a little bit out of control with my rhymes
Good God, dip, do a little slide
Bend down, touch your toes and just glide
Up the center of the dance floor
Like TP for my bunghole
And it's cool if you let one go
Nobody's gonna know, who'd hear it?
Give a little "poot poot", it's OK! [Fart Sound]
Oops my cd just skipped
And everyone just heard you let one rip

[Chorus]
Now I'm gonna make you dance
It's your chance
Yeah boy shake that ass
Oops I mean girl girl girl girl
Girl you know you're my world
Alright now lose it
(HA-HA-HA-HA-HA)
Just lose it
(HA-HA-HA-HA-HA)
Go crazy
(HA-HA-HA-HA-HA)
Oh baby
(HA-HA)
Oh baby, baby
(HA-HA)

[Verse 2]
It's Friday and it's my day
Just to party all the way to sunday
Maybe til monday, I dunno what day
Everyday's just a holiday
Crusin' on the freeway
Feelin' kinda breezy
Got the top down, lettin' my hair blow
I dunno where I'm goin'
All I know is when I get there
Someone's gonna "touch my body"

Excuse me miss, I don't mean to sound like a jerk
But I'm feelin' just a little stressed out from work
Could you punch me in the stomach and pull my hair?
Spit on me, maybe gouge my eyes out? (Yeah)
Now, what's your name girl?
What's your sign?
[Dr Dre] "Man, you must be up out your mind"
DRE! (HA-HA)
Beer Goggles! blind!
I'm just tryna unwind now I'm

[Chorus]
Now I'm gonna make you dance
It's your chance
Yeah boy shake that ass
Oops I mean girl girl girl girl
Girl you know you're my world
Alright now lose it
(HA-HA-HA-HA-HA)
Just lose it
(HA-HA-HA-HA-HA)
Go crazy
(HA-HA-HA-HA-HA)
Oh baby
(HA-HA)
Oh baby, baby
(HA-HA)

[Verse 3]
It's Tuesday and I'm locked up
I'm in jail and I don't know what happend
They say I was running butt naked
Down the street screaming
(HA-HA-HA-HA-HA)
Well I'm sorry, I don't remember
All I know is this much
I'm not guilty
They said, "Save it, boy we gotcha you on tape
yellin' at an old lady 'touch my body!'"

Now this is the part where the rap breaks down
It gets real intense, no one makes a sound
Everything looks like it's 8 Mile now
The beat comes back and everybody lose themselves
Snap back to reality
Look it's B.Rabbit!
Yo you signed me up to battle!?
I'm a grown man!
Chubba chubba chubba chubba chubba chubbie
I don't have any lines to go right here so, chubba teletubbie!
Fella's (WHAT?!) Fella's (WHAT?!)
Grab you left nut, make right one jealous (what?)
Black girls
White girls
Skinny girls
Fat girls
Tall girls
Small girls
I'm callin' all girls
Everyone report to the dance floor
It's your chance for a little romance whore
Butt squeezin' it's the season
Just go (HA-HA-HA-HA)
It's so appeasin'

[Chorus]
Now I'm gonna make you dance
It's your chance
Yeah boy shake that ass
Oops I mean girl girl girl girl
Girl you know you're my world
Alright now lose it
(HA-HA-HA-HA-HA)
Just lose it
(HA-HA-HA-HA-HA)
Go crazy
(HA-HA-HA-HA-HA)
Oh baby
(HA-HA)
Oh baby, baby
(HA-HA)

[Outro]
UmMmMmm touch my body
UmMmMmm touch my body
Ooh boy just touch my body
I mean girl just touch my body

----

The video (with him imitating other artists, MJ included):

Happy debating. My work here is done.

thanks for clearing it up, tim. i still haven't checked the song, and i'm not too into the lyrics; but the lyrics clearly say that he wasn't making fun of michael. you can't really argue with that.

People are definitely gonna react differently but I got over the hype about the song. But Eminem got real boring to me around this period. It was like he was trying too hard to be serious. Now he's becoming that more and more and it's annoying. Hate to say his only good album, to me, was The Slim Shady Show but I threw that (and The Marshal Mathers Show out).

MickyDolenz said:

JoeTyler said:

what I meant is, if a band writes a hit, you can bet the label (no matter if it's small) will try to heavily promote it. The radio and a new contract with a major label will do the rest. That's the way many hard-rock and alternative bands broke into the mainstream anyway...

I always use the David Bowie example: he was a nobody in the 66-68 years until he finally delivered a big hit (Space Oddity).

[Edited 3/1/11 9:28am]

David Bowie is not a blues singer. The blues and southern soul doesn't get radio airplay.

of course not

I was talking about general pop music

I often think monopolized radio stations and monopolized major record labels had much to do with popular music's "ruin" more than any artist. If people happen to buy the artist, they like that artist. I doubt anyone was forced to buy the Beatles or Nirvana or even Michael if they thought that artist "ruined" it. It's like with every genre that gets popular every decade, no one's gonna like them. I think because the mainstream right now is at a stalemate that we can throw anybody under the bus. Even if you claim "well that's what I was trying to point out", it ain't like the artists sat down and said "oh let me be on every motherfucking thing before some motherfucker replace me". If anything, the labels force these folks to work. It's up to us to decide whether or not we really wanna listen. When you do listen, they got you in a sense. That's why you get so many "oh they suck" comments, which I get. We all claim someone sucks. Doesn't mean they played a part in ruining anything...unless they were the ones running the companies. I can see someone like Jay-Z being responsible because he was head of Def Jam at one point and from all points made, he didn't do a decent job. But I can't blame Rihanna, she was forced into the industry by Jay-Z. The industry saw they can get money off her and now look where she's at. Now she may have gone by the old "blowjob" route to get to some point but she's here and either we avoid her or listen to her. Just like people here say Lady Gaga ruined music but you got a good portion of people who would buy it because they LOVE her. So I don't see how it's any different.

Like I said, artists get too much power for the blame of why popular music is where it is right now.

JoeTyler said:

MickyDolenz said:

David Bowie is not a blues singer. The blues and southern soul doesn't get radio airplay.

of course not

I was talking about general pop music

That is the whole point, since Malaco is a small blues label, nobody would have been checking for Thriller, because not many people would have heard of it, except the older black juke joint audience who bought their records, and they wouldn't have been interested in songs like The Girl Is Mine, Thriller, and Beat It. Besides, Malaco surely wouldn't have been able to afford people like Paul McCartney, Quincy Jones, the Toto guys, etc. or film music videos. So if Mike signed to Malaco, the album most likely wouldn't have been made anyway.

Shitney Houston brought everything down to a corny ass Lawrence Welk tempo and shit hoppers made it "cool" to be into shit that was so dull and rhythmless it would have been considered nerdy and dorky decades earlier.

Timmy84 said:

MJJstudent said:

thanks for clearing it up, tim. i still haven't checked the song, and i'm not too into the lyrics; but the lyrics clearly say that he wasn't making fun of michael. you can't really argue with that.

People are definitely gonna react differently but I got over the hype about the song. But Eminem got real boring to me around this period. It was like he was trying too hard to be serious. Now he's becoming that more and more and it's annoying. Hate to say his only good album, to me, was The Slim Shady Show but I threw that (and The Marshal Mathers Show out).

Slim Shady LP , Marshall Mathers LP and The Eminem Show are his best imo , I ‘m still a fan but yeah he definitely peaked he really doesn’t have much to talk about these days and he’s in a different place then he was ten years ago I don’t expect him to still be silly , have blonde hair and Rapped about his mother , his Ex and Daughter. I still think he's one of the better rappers out though.

[Edited 3/1/11 11:27am]

vainandy said:

Shitney Houston brought everything down to a corny ass Lawrence Welk tempo and shit hoppers made it "cool" to be into shit that was so dull and rhythmless it would have been considered nerdy and dorky decades earlier.

Actually, it would be Clive Davis, not Whitney Houston per se. Clive gave all his pop acts on Arista that sound (ie. Dionne Warwick & Jermaine Jackson). Years before Whitney came out, Clive gave Aretha Franklin songs like United Together, which is the same AC sound, which was the result of the hard rock audience rebelling against disco. Whitney is no different than The Supremes or Vanity 6. She's just a singer being controlled by a Svengali figure. She had no control over what she recorded, just the same as Prince told Vanity/Apollonia 6 what to sing. Clive groomed Whitney for years before he put out a record on her. Expose' was originally a latin freestyle dance group, until Clive started giving them Diane Warren style soft pop songs to sing.

Clive Davis definitely played a hand in the "ruin" of popular music. Let's keep it real. Without him, we wouldn't have Whitney. Real talk.

Timmy84 said:

Clive Davis definitely played a hand in the "ruin" of popular music. Let's keep it real. Without him, we wouldn't have Whitney. Real talk.

Yeah, the Woodstock era Santana wouldn't have been making records like Supernatural and the ones that came after it.

MickyDolenz said:

Timmy84 said:

Clive Davis definitely played a hand in the "ruin" of popular music. Let's keep it real. Without him, we wouldn't have Whitney. Real talk.

Yeah, the Woodstock era Santana wouldn't have been making records like Supernatural and the ones that came after it.

It's funny he's being credited for the success of Janis Joplin. He helped to break up Big Brother and the Holding Company. That prick.

JoeTyler said:

if a band writes a hit,

There's no such thing as "writing a hit". The only way for a song to become a hit is for a label to promote it, and even that is not a guarantee of something becoming a hit. For example, a major label can spend all kinds of money promoting a polka record or an album of 300 year old Irish folk tunes to radio, but the mainstream audience won't buy it, because that is not the music they're accustomed to. Try getting someone who listens to "chopped and screwed" to buy a bluegrass record, or a hillbilly to listen to rave music. It won't work. In the 1950's and 60's, the radio DJ's had a bit more control over what they played, and many times they created hits from songs they liked. But those days are no more, and radio is just a playlist by a computer, created by a conglomerate like Clear Channel. Also, there's literally thousands of albums released a year. There's no way all of them can become hits, no matter what kind of label they're on.

I'm convinced that many of us have been SPOILED! We're not that different from other generations who pissed on that new generation's music.

MickyDolenz said:

JoeTyler said:

if a band writes a hit,

There's no such thing as "writing a hit". The only way for a song to become a hit is for a label to promote it, and even that is not a guarantee of something becoming a hit. For example, a major label can spend all kinds of money promoting a polka record or an album of 300 year old Irish folk tunes to radio, but the mainstream audience won't buy it, because that is not the music they're accustomed to. Try getting someone who listens to "chopped and screwed" to buy a bluegrass record, or a hillbilly to listen to rave music. It won't work. In the 1950's and 60's, the radio DJ's had a bit more control over what they played, and many times they created hits from songs they liked. But those days are no more, and radio is just a playlist by a computer, created by a conglomerate like Clear Channel. Also, there's literally thousands of albums released a year. There's no way all of them can become hits, no matter what kind of label they're on.

I'm a rarity. I can go from hip-hop to funk, from screwed and chopped to punk, from metal to gospel, from rock to soul, from jazz to pop, from disco to new wave, from (some really good old school) country to blues.

Obviously they rather be homogenized. I'm not.

MickyDolenz said:

vainandy said:

Shitney Houston brought everything down to a corny ass Lawrence Welk tempo and shit hoppers made it "cool" to be into shit that was so dull and rhythmless it would have been considered nerdy and dorky decades earlier.

Actually, it would be Clive Davis, not Whitney Houston per se. Clive gave all his pop acts on Arista that sound (ie. Dionne Warwick & Jermaine Jackson). Years before Whitney came out, Clive gave Aretha Franklin songs like United Together, which is the same AC sound, which was the result of the hard rock audience rebelling against disco. Whitney is no different than The Supremes or Vanity 6. She's just a singer being controlled by a Svengali figure. She had no control over what she recorded, just the same as Prince told Vanity/Apollonia 6 what to sing. Clive groomed Whitney for years before he put out a record on her. Expose' was originally a latin freestyle dance group, until Clive started giving them Diane Warren style soft pop songs to sing.

Well, anything that rebels against disco is a bad thing. Even after disco's "death", funk was still very much influenced by it with it's hard fast paced ass shakability which made it even better than the previous funk before the disco era which seemed to be slower paced with more jazz elements than the latter. When Shitney came along though, and all those that came after her such as Anita Faker, Deady Jackson, Sicki Howard, etc. whatever lingering disco that may have been left over completely left unless you went underground to the house scene. Any enemy of disco is an enemy of mine.

As for Apollonia, hell she needed Prince. Just look at the shit she recorded on her own. Donna Summer was also a product of Georgio Moroder which was a good thing. It's fine to be a product of someone else if that person putting you out is making you do hard slammin' jams. It's when you let people make you record weak shit that's a problem.

.

.

.

[Edited 3/1/11 14:03pm]

Timmy84 said:

I'm convinced that many of us have been SPOILED! We're not that different from other generations who pissed on that new generation's music.

The hell we ain't! They were pissed because their slow and dull music was being corrupted by that fast paced, hip gyrating, "devil music". I'm pissed because all that fast paced, hip gyrating "devil music" has left and they have gone back to the days of slow paced dull shit that was around before it.

Put a Lawrence Welk record on one turntable and a shit hop record on another turntable. You could mix the two without even adjusting the pitch control. Actually, you would probably have to slow the Lawrence Welk record down a little to match the shit hop tempo. Hell, we've gone backwards into time instead of forwards.

vainandy said:

MickyDolenz said:

Actually, it would be Clive Davis, not Whitney Houston per se. Clive gave all his pop acts on Arista that sound (ie. Dionne Warwick & Jermaine Jackson). Years before Whitney came out, Clive gave Aretha Franklin songs like United Together, which is the same AC sound, which was the result of the hard rock audience rebelling against disco. Whitney is no different than The Supremes or Vanity 6. She's just a singer being controlled by a Svengali figure. She had no control over what she recorded, just the same as Prince told Vanity/Apollonia 6 what to sing. Clive groomed Whitney for years before he put out a record on her. Expose' was originally a latin freestyle dance group, until Clive started giving them Diane Warren style soft pop songs to sing.

Well, anything that rebels against disco is a bad thing. Even after disco's "death", funk was still very much influenced by it with it's hard fast paced ass shakability which made it even better than the previous funk before the disco era which seemed to be slower paced with more jazz elements than the latter. When Shitney came along though, and all those that came after her such as Anita Faker, Deady Jackson, Sicki Howard, etc. whatever lingering disco that may have been left over completely left unless you went underground to the house scene. Any enemy of disco is an enemy of mine.

As for Apollonia, hell she needed Prince. Just look at the shit she recorded on her own. Donna Summer was also a product of Georgio Moroder which was a good thing. It's fine to be a product of someone else if that person putting you out is making you do hard slammin' jams. It's when you let people make you record weak shit that's a problem.

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[Edited 3/1/11 14:03pm]

Maybe it's weak to you, but not to the millions of people that bought Whitney, and others like the Lionel Richie, Air Supply, Styx, REO Speedwagon, & hair rock band power ballads which were popular before anybody heard of Whitney. Freddie Jackson wasn't really doing anything different than Luther Vandross and Billy Ocean were doing before him. So again, it's not Whitney, it's the record companies and the audience. The record labels are trying to make money and only puts out what the consumer wants. It's like are you going to open a McDonald's or a raw foodist restaurant?

[Edited 3/1/11 14:27pm]

MickyDolenz said:

vainandy said:

Well, anything that rebels against disco is a bad thing. Even after disco's "death", funk was still very much influenced by it with it's hard fast paced ass shakability which made it even better than the previous funk before the disco era which seemed to be slower paced with more jazz elements than the latter. When Shitney came along though, and all those that came after her such as Anita Faker, Deady Jackson, Sicki Howard, etc. whatever lingering disco that may have been left over completely left unless you went underground to the house scene. Any enemy of disco is an enemy of mine.

As for Apollonia, hell she needed Prince. Just look at the shit she recorded on her own. Donna Summer was also a product of Georgio Moroder which was a good thing. It's fine to be a product of someone else if that person putting you out is making you do hard slammin' jams. It's when you let people make you record weak shit that's a problem.

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[Edited 3/1/11 14:03pm]

Maybe it's weak to you, but not to the millions of people that bought Whitney, and others like the Lionel Richie, Air Supply, Styx, REO Speedwagon, & hair rock band power ballads which were popular before anybody heard of Whitney. Freddie Jackson wasn't really doing anything different than Luther Vandross and Billy Ocean were doing before him. So again, it's not Whitney, it's the record companies and the audience. The record labels are trying to make money and only puts out what the consumer wants. It's like are you going to open a McDonald's or a raw foodist restaurant?

[Edited 3/1/11 14:27pm]

Well, Shitney ain't never had no jams like Luther did with "She's A Super Lady" or the jams he did with Change. She ain't never had no jam like Deady Jackson did with Mystic Merlin called "Sixty Thrills A Minute". She also ain't never had no jam like "One Of Those Nights (Feel Like Gettin' Down) like Billy Ocean did. That little goodie two shoes cheerleader ain't never had ANY jam EVER.

As for those other groups, that's the pop/rock side which I could care less if they wanted to contaminate. And as for Air Supply....

I'm fine with adult contemporary as long as it's played on adult contemporary radio only where it can do no damage. I can understand them being played on pop radio also since "pop" means anything popular. But to play Shitney on R&B radio alongside of folks like Cameo or The Barkays just because she's black is racist. The little goodie two shoes does not fit the format. I bet they didn't play Debbie Boone on hard rock radio alongside AC/DC, I can guarantee you that.

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[Edited 3/1/11 14:40pm]