Wiki says.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad for its exsistence since without it a lot of folk and songs I love might not have been honored at all, but...I just don't get it.

I mean, there's not a Best Urban Recording for there to be a Best Urban Alternative.

It just has always kind of felt to me like Best Song That Just Didn't Fit What We Thought Black Music Was Supposed To Sound Like category, but I guess that's just too long a title.

[Edited 2/23/11 17:06pm]

They're doing way too much considering both R&B and rock categories.

Timmy84 said:

They're doing way too much considering both R&B and rock categories.

Yeah, I forgot they split that up too.

It's COMPLETE B.S. if ya ask ME. How many more labels can be affixed to R&B to the point where the "music" itself ends up in some distant galaxy where it's hardly exposed, let alone rewarded? i.e. Jill Scott, Erykah Badu, Amel Larrieux, Guapele and a host of others. If it's Neo Soul, it was Soul to BEGIN with. Why break it down any further than THAT?

[Edited 2/23/11 17:30pm]

Timmy84 said:

They're doing way too much considering both R&B and rock categories.

Blame this on bilboard magazine! Back in the day, they had the Country, Rock,Dance,RB,Hot 100, Top 200 albums, Rock, charts and a few other tossed in, Jazz, Latin etc...Now there are about 75 charts that exist, does anyone really care at this point, what the Number 23 Modern Rock Track for people over 40 while the moon is full? How about one singles and albums chart and cut the magazine down to about 5 pages and make it a dollar.

lastdecember said:

Timmy84 said:

They're doing way too much considering both R&B and rock categories.

Blame this on bilboard magazine! Back in the day, they had the Country, Rock,Dance,RB,Hot 100, Top 200 albums, Rock, charts and a few other tossed in, Jazz, Latin etc...Now there are about 75 charts that exist, does anyone really care at this point, what the Number 23 Modern Rock Track for people over 40 while the moon is full? How about one singles and albums chart and cut the magazine down to about 5 pages and make it a dollar.

Because that'll be "too simple". But that would be nice.

johnart said

It just has always kind of felt to me like Best Song That Just Didn't Fit What We Thought Black Music Was Supposed To Sound Like category.

I completely agree.

i agree, completely with your sentiment. BS, completely. they put black music in a box and thank God for those artists who think and create outside of it!!!

datdude said:

i agree, completely with your sentiment. BS, completely. they put black music in a box and thank God for those artists who think and create outside of it!!!

Gotta love the ones who rebel against the system especially one the music industry itself created.

They should have a best genre song and then an overall best male, female, group, new artist and album of the year and that's it. Cut that ish down and bring some credibility to the awards. If an offshot wants to do their own genre awards (like the Latin Grammy's) so be it.

lastdecember said:

Timmy84 said:

They're doing way too much considering both R&B and rock categories.

Blame this on bilboard magazine! Back in the day, they had the Country, Rock,Dance,RB,Hot 100, Top 200 albums, Rock, charts and a few other tossed in, Jazz, Latin etc...Now there are about 75 charts that exist, does anyone really care at this point, what the Number 23 Modern Rock Track for people over 40 while the moon is full? How about one singles and albums chart and cut the magazine down to about 5 pages and make it a dollar.

Artists love all these different charts though. There are some artists that don't really do that well as far as sales so they'd never be on one of the bigger charts, but with all these specialized charts they can say I charted at such and such position. It's good for their ego and to make it look like they had some big success when they really didn't.

The specialized catergories at the Grammys does allow artists who would otherwise be ignored to get some recognition. If they're talented and deserving, I don't think it's all bad.

sosgemini said:

They should have a best genre song and then an overall best male, female, group, new artist and album of the year and that's it. Cut that ish down and bring some credibility to the awards.

A show that runs for 1/2 an hour yeah, I could see that coming.

Harlepolis said:

sosgemini said:

They should have a best genre song and then an overall best male, female, group, new artist and album of the year and that's it. Cut that ish down and bring some credibility to the awards.

A show that runs for 1/2 an hour yeah, I could see that coming.

But think about it, thats about the amount of awards they hand out during the show. It's become one big excuse for performances anyways. And make it a contest. Only winners perform but everyone has to put something together and once they've won the award they have to run onto stage and perform. Bring some spontaneity into that ish.

What always bugs me is the fact that black people don't have an alternative scene like white people do. There is no black punk scene or black alternative scene and if there is it is really micro-small where it has little impact.

2freaky4church1 said:

What always bugs me is the fact that black people don't have an alternative scene like white people do. There is no black punk scene or black alternative scene and if there is it is really micro-small where it has little impact.

Your own community will accuse you of "selling out to Whitey" which is the dumbest accusation anyone can come up with. BUT there is a small black punk sect. Don't know about a black alternative sect. And don't forget the Black Rock Coalition.

Timmy84 said:

Your own community will accuse you of "selling out to Whitey" which is the dumbest accusation anyone can come up with. BUT there is a small black punk sect. Don't know about a black alternative sect. And don't forget the Black Rock Coalition.

I see that here with comments such as Lionel Richie stopped doing the funk of the early Commodores and started doing Hello and Dancing On The Ceiling. Michael Jackson was accused of this by some of the African American community post Off The Wall and Prince was with Purple Rain.

MickyDolenz said:

Timmy84 said:

Your own community will accuse you of "selling out to Whitey" which is the dumbest accusation anyone can come up with. BUT there is a small black punk sect. Don't know about a black alternative sect. And don't forget the Black Rock Coalition.

I see that here with comments such as Lionel Richie stopped doing the funk of the early Commodores and started doing Hello and Dancing On The Ceiling. Michael Jackson was accused of this by some of the African American community post Off The Wall and Prince was with Purple Rain.

Lionel just got corny. I take back my comments he "sold out". He just got corny after 1985.

nvm

[Edited 2/24/11 13:47pm]

2freaky4church1 said:

What always bugs me is the fact that black people don't have an alternative scene like white people do. There is no black punk scene or black alternative scene and if there is it is really micro-small where it has little impact.

In general, blacks in the US today are mostly raised with "pop R&B" and hip hop, so that's what they're going to make. Younger blacks have abandoned blues and jazz for the most part, so why would they be interested in alternative music which is associated with white people? It's like few blacks go into country music, new age, or classical.

Unholyalliance said:

Doesn't this category exist because it exists on Billboard, radio, and is recognized as an, actual, category of music? I thought it was just was whatever was on top of the r&b charts.

I don't think it does.

MickyDolenz said:

2freaky4church1 said:

What always bugs me is the fact that black people don't have an alternative scene like white people do. There is no black punk scene or black alternative scene and if there is it is really micro-small where it has little impact.

In general, blacks in the US today are mostly raised with "pop R&B" and hip hop, so that's what they're going to make. Younger blacks have abandoned blues and jazz for the most part, so why would they be interested in alternative music which is associated with white people? It's like few blacks go into country music, new age, or classical.

They need to explore further than what they're being fed.

Timmy84 said:

Unholyalliance said:

Doesn't this category exist because it exists on Billboard, radio, and is recognized as an, actual, category of music? I thought it was just was whatever was on top of the r&b charts.

I don't think it does.

My bad. I didn't read the title correctly.

Timmy84 said:

MickyDolenz said:

In general, blacks in the US today are mostly raised with "pop R&B" and hip hop, so that's what they're going to make. Younger blacks have abandoned blues and jazz for the most part, so why would they be interested in alternative music which is associated with white people? It's like few blacks go into country music, new age, or classical.

They need to explore further than what they're being fed.

Everyone should. This should be like a universal law.

2freaky4church1 said:

What always bugs me is the fact that black people don't have an alternative scene like white people do. There is no black punk scene or black alternative scene and if there is it is really micro-small where it has little impact.

Oh there's a major black punk and alternative scene. Try Brooklyn, NY. I believe they have annual music festivals as well. At least that's what my son told me.

2elijah said:

2freaky4church1 said:

What always bugs me is the fact that black people don't have an alternative scene like white people do. There is no black punk scene or black alternative scene and if there is it is really micro-small where it has little impact.

Oh there's a major black punk and alternative scene. Try Brooklyn, NY. I believe they have annual music festivals as well. At least that's what my son told me.

I forgot about that. If you go to this blog called Afro Punk, there's a lot of black punk and alternative scenes.

Timmy84 said:

MickyDolenz said:

In general, blacks in the US today are mostly raised with "pop R&B" and hip hop, so that's what they're going to make. Younger blacks have abandoned blues and jazz for the most part, so why would they be interested in alternative music which is associated with white people? It's like few blacks go into country music, new age, or classical.

They need to explore further than what they're being fed.

Why would they? People in general stick to what they know and exposed to. Would a person in Japan more likely to choose to eat "soul food" and "Mexican food" or their native dishes? Do people who speak only English choose to listen to someone singing in Cantonese? It's like you consider Lionel "corny" because you don't like it. He's not corny to the people who bought his records, and Dancing On The Ceiling was a big hit.

MickyDolenz said:

Timmy84 said:

They need to explore further than what they're being fed.

Why would they? People in general stick to what they know and exposed to. Would a person in Japan more likely to choose to eat "soul food" and "Mexican food" or their native dishes? Do people who speak only English choose to listen to someone singing in Cantonese? It's like you consider Lionel "corny" because you don't like it. He's not corny to the people who bought his records, and Dancing On The Ceiling was a big hit.

Defensive, much?

I know that you guys are saying that these kids nowadays need to be able to look back into the past to expose themselves to the kind of music that was being produced in the past, but tbqh, I don't think that has ever happened. I mean...just look at the history of the r&b charts themselves. The r&b audience jumps through trends much faster than any other. This is also why the charts keep changing names half of the time. I don't know why you guys expect for them to look back in history now. That doesn't make any sense to me.

Also, the older audience barely looks to the future. They mainly stick with the old stuff.

Unholyalliance said:

I know that you guys are saying that these kids nowadays need to be able to look back into the past to expose themselves to the kind of music that was being produced in the past, but tbqh, I don't think that has ever happened. I mean...just look at the history of the r&b charts themselves. The r&b audience jumps through trends much faster than any other. This is also why the charts keep changing names half of the time. I don't know why you guys expect for them to look back in history now. That doesn't make any sense to me.

Also, the older audience barely looks to the future. They mainly stick with the old stuff.

We do have a history of doing that but it's kinda disturbing to me.

Timmy84 said:

2elijah said:

Oh there's a major black punk and alternative scene. Try Brooklyn, NY. I believe they have annual music festivals as well. At least that's what my son told me.

I forgot about that. If you go to this blog called Afro Punk, there's a lot of black punk and alternative scenes.

Yes. Afropunk. I know J*Davey and Janelle Monae have performed at those festivals. Then there's sort of an underground alternative black music scene in the village in Manhattan too. (I get this info from my son when we get in discussions about music and he wants me to listen so some music he likes).

NYTimes.com - UrbanEye: The Afro-Punk Festival

You have Graffiti artists, musicians/artists, graffiti artists at these festivals.

This is Janelle Monae at an interview, while at the Afropunk festival in Brooklyn, NY 2008, before performing:

Here's a DVD documentary on Afro-punk and Black American artists whose into it

[Edited 2/24/11 16:37pm]