Erykah went left with Worldwide Underground

after Mama's Gun

one could say she went left with Mama's Gun

after Baduizm

as Mama's Gun was brilliant, so was WWU

Wowugotit said:

SoulAlive said:

Madonna following up the hugely successful 'Like A Prayer' with this album of 30s inspired show tunes and ballads

Oh, Paleeze! She went out there with Vogue - her most commercial sounding song in years.

"Vogue" is the only 'commercial' tune on the album and it was obviously added so the album would sell,but this is not your typical commerial Madonna pop album.

Unless,of course,you think songs like "Cry Baby" and "I'm Going Bananas" sound like everything else o the radio in 1990

robertlove said:

TTD was very good at this...although i'm not sure he didn't care about losing fans

he did it WAY too early in his career...you have to build up a fanbase before you can start experimenting

DirtyChris said:

Erykah went left with Worldwide Underground

after Mama's Gun

one could say she went left with Mama's Gun

after Baduizm

as Mama's Gun was brilliant, so was WWU

Common's Electric Circus was light years away from Like Water for Chocolate. I think that album was released during the time they were together.

November said:

DirtyChris said:

Erykah went left with Worldwide Underground

after Mama's Gun

one could say she went left with Mama's Gun

after Baduizm

as Mama's Gun was brilliant, so was WWU

Common's Electric Circus was light years away from Like Water for Chocolate. I think that album was released during the time they were together.

Agree with both posts!

Common went against the grain with Electric Circus. I remember the week before it was released, people were just giving a bad rep especially here in his own hometown Chicago. It remains my favorite Common album and his most fearless statement. Nobody has touched it in hip-hop yet.

Erykah definitely threw me with a curveball with the release of Worldwide Underground. I remember my cousin told me it was "different," but I didn't know it was that "different" (God I hate that word). It, along with Mama's Gun was brilliant.

I don't know if this has been previously stated, but Sly followed Stand! with the experimental, dark masterpiece There's A Riot Goin' On. Folks who thought they were getting Stand! Part II were in for a surprise. It was a #1 chart-topper on the Billboard charts too! That's saying a lot...

janet. to The Velvet Rope

trueiopian said:

janet. to The Velvet Rope

Another one: Imagine to Sometime In New York City

silverchild said:

November said:

Common's Electric Circus was light years away from Like Water for Chocolate. I think that album was released during the time they were together.

Agree with both posts!

Common went against the grain with Electric Circus. I remember the week before it was released, people were just giving a bad rep especially here in his own hometown Chicago. It remains my favorite Common album and his most fearless statement. Nobody has touched it in hip-hop yet.

Erykah definitely threw me with a curveball with the release of Worldwide Underground. I remember my cousin told me it was "different," but I didn't know it was that "different" (God I hate that word). It, along with Mama's Gun was brilliant.

I always expect Erykah to bring something new with each album, but Electric Circus was kind of well....different. It's my second fave behing LWFC.

trueiopian said:

janet. to The Velvet Rope

Seriously? With songs like "Every Time" & "Go Deep"? The janet. record already had "This Time" & "New Agenda" that can be called "less commercial" than the singles, TVR just built upon all that.

I'm Breathless was based on a hyped movie project so in that aspect it's as commercial as it could get, just because it wasn't contemporary, it was still based on regular big band stuff, not to mention the various movie quotes in the audio was inspired by Prince's Batman.

To me Supposed Former Infatuation Junkie is the poster-album for this.

silverchild said:

November said:

Common's Electric Circus was light years away from Like Water for Chocolate. I think that album was released during the time they were together.

Agree with both posts!

Common went against the grain with Electric Circus. I remember the week before it was released, people were just giving a bad rep especially here in his own hometown Chicago. It remains my favorite Common album and his most fearless statement. Nobody has touched it in hip-hop yet.

Erykah definitely threw me with a curveball with the release of Worldwide Underground. I remember my cousin told me it was "different," but I didn't know it was that "different" (God I hate that word). It, along with Mama's Gun was brilliant.

I enjoy Electric Circus as well, and great example

808s & Heartbreak following Graduation (Kanye West)

Mary following Share My World (Mary J. Blige)

Fleshtone following Kelis Was Here (Kelis)

Sol-Angel & the Hadley St. Dreams following Solo Star (Solange)

Kamaal the Abstract following Amplified (Q-tip)

The Way I See It following Ray Ray (Raphael Saadiq)

Patrice following Shout It Out (Patrice Rushen)

and actually Shout It Out was considered too R&Bish

for hardcore jazz critics that followed Before The Dawn & Prelusion

Nigga Please following Return to the 36 Chambers (Ol' Dirty Bastard)

Voodoo following Brown Sugar (D'Angelo)

I reckon N*E*R*D went left with

the retail/rockier version of In Search Of...

in comparison to the flesh version

DirtyChris said:

silverchild said:

Agree with both posts!

Common went against the grain with Electric Circus. I remember the week before it was released, people were just giving a bad rep especially here in his own hometown Chicago. It remains my favorite Common album and his most fearless statement. Nobody has touched it in hip-hop yet.

Erykah definitely threw me with a curveball with the release of Worldwide Underground. I remember my cousin told me it was "different," but I didn't know it was that "different" (God I hate that word). It, along with Mama's Gun was brilliant.

I enjoy Electric Circus as well, and great example

808s & Heartbreak following Graduation (Kanye West)

Mary following Share My World (Mary J. Blige)

Fleshtone following Kelis Was Here (Kelis)

Sol-Angel & the Hadley St. Dreams following Solo Star (Solange)

Kamaal the Abstract following Amplified (Q-tip)

The Way I See It following Ray Ray (Raphael Saadiq)

Patrice following Shout It Out (Patrice Rushen)

and actually Shout It Out was considered too R&Bish

for hardcore jazz critics that followed Before The Dawn & Prelusion

Nigga Please following Return to the 36 Chambers (Ol' Dirty Bastard)

Voodoo following Brown Sugar (D'Angelo)

I reckon N*E*R*D went left with

the retail/rockier version of In Search Of...

in comparison to the flesh version

I see you've opened this discussion back up!

Love these choices. 808's & Heartbreak has just become my second favorite Kanye LP, with Late Registration holding down the top.

Voodoo was definitely a left turn from Brown Sugar. He had a lot of folks fooled when the video to Untitled (How Does It Feel) came out. It turned out to be his best album yet, and better then the first.

OH....and we're missing this one

silverchild said:

DirtyChris said:

I enjoy Electric Circus as well, and great example

808s & Heartbreak following Graduation (Kanye West)

Mary following Share My World (Mary J. Blige)

Fleshtone following Kelis Was Here (Kelis)

Sol-Angel & the Hadley St. Dreams following Solo Star (Solange)

Kamaal the Abstract following Amplified (Q-tip)

The Way I See It following Ray Ray (Raphael Saadiq)

Patrice following Shout It Out (Patrice Rushen)

and actually Shout It Out was considered too R&Bish

for hardcore jazz critics that followed Before The Dawn & Prelusion

Nigga Please following Return to the 36 Chambers (Ol' Dirty Bastard)

Voodoo following Brown Sugar (D'Angelo)

I reckon N*E*R*D went left with

the retail/rockier version of In Search Of...

in comparison to the flesh version

I see you've opened this discussion back up!

Love these choices. 808's & Heartbreak has just become my second favorite Kanye LP, with Late Registration holding down the top.

Voodoo was definitely a left turn from Brown Sugar. He had a lot of folks fooled when the video to Untitled (How Does It Feel) came out. It turned out to be his best album yet, and better then the first.

OH....and we're missing this one

good one

yeah 808s I actually went crazy over at first listen

while everyone else bashed it...

and now I like MBDTF the most LOL

he just keeps getting better & better (IMO)

DirtyChris said:

silverchild said:

I see you've opened this discussion back up!

Love these choices. 808's & Heartbreak has just become my second favorite Kanye LP, with Late Registration holding down the top.

Voodoo was definitely a left turn from Brown Sugar. He had a lot of folks fooled when the video to Untitled (How Does It Feel) came out. It turned out to be his best album yet, and better then the first.

OH....and we're missing this one

good one

yeah 808s I actually went crazy over at first listen

while everyone else bashed it...

and now I like MBDTF the most LOL

he just keeps getting better & better (IMO)

Yeah it took me some time to get into 808s fully, but I found myself playing it alot when My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy came out in the quarter of last year. That disc bumps so hard and it's sweet too. Sure, MBDTF is a good album and all, but I find myself bumping 808s the most nowadays more than anything other Ye album.

silverchild said:

DirtyChris said:

good one

yeah 808s I actually went crazy over at first listen

while everyone else bashed it...

and now I like MBDTF the most LOL

he just keeps getting better & better (IMO)

Yeah it took me some time to get into 808s fully, but I found myself playing it alot when My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy came out in the quarter of last year. That disc bumps so hard and it's sweet too. Sure, MBDTF is a good album and all, but I find myself bumping 808s the most nowadays more than anything other Ye album.

yeah MBDTF is not classic, but not far from it

I think I have sentimental attachment to it

as it reminds me of happier times

during the last quarter of 2010

808s & Heartbreak is crazy!!!

I respect him so much for that release

DirtyChris said:

silverchild said:

Yeah it took me some time to get into 808s fully, but I found myself playing it alot when My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy came out in the quarter of last year. That disc bumps so hard and it's sweet too. Sure, MBDTF is a good album and all, but I find myself bumping 808s the most nowadays more than anything other Ye album.

yeah MBDTF is not classic, but not far from it

I think I have sentimental attachment to it

as it reminds me of happier times

during the last quarter of 2010

808s & Heartbreak is crazy!!!

I respect him so much for that release

I just don't get all of the praise MBDTF has been getting. Everybody is saying it's the album of the century and all that other jazz. Yes, it will go down as one of Kanye's finest hours, but I don't think of it as a game-changer as much as College Dropout or Late Registration was.

808s has gotten unfair loathing as people thought it was just an sell out album full of ballads and auto-tune pop, but I think it was the most fearless thing Ye has ever done. It's almost his Electric Circus.

silverchild said:

DirtyChris said:

yeah MBDTF is not classic, but not far from it

I think I have sentimental attachment to it

as it reminds me of happier times

during the last quarter of 2010

808s & Heartbreak is crazy!!!

I respect him so much for that release

I just don't get all of the praise MBDTF has been getting. Everybody is saying it's the album of the century and all that other jazz. Yes, it will go down as one of Kanye's finest hours, but I don't think of it as a game-changer as much as College Dropout or Late Registration was.

808s has gotten unfair loathing as people thought it was just an sell out album full of ballads and auto-tune pop, but I think it was the most fearless thing Ye has ever done. It's almost his Electric Circus.

co-sign!

from Never Say Never to Full Moon then Afrodisiac, the last 2 are better albums and more creative sounding

I agree Kanye's 808's is a great album

alphastreet said:

from Never Say Never to Full Moon then Afrodisiac, the last 2 are better albums and more creative sounding

I agree Kanye's 808's is a great album

Yeah it's a shame Afrodisiac didn't get enough love. It was the first album from Brandy I brought since her debut and that was in 1994. It was my last also. That was her most consistent release in my eyes.

Other considerations:

Minnie Riperton: following her 1974 megahit LP, Perfect Angel with Adventures in Paradise

Teena Marie: following her 1984 hit LP, Starchild with Emerald City

Joni Mitchell: following big selling 1974 LP, Court & Spark with The Hissing of Summer Lawns

Rufus featuring Chaka Khan: following up critically-acclaimed, big-seller Ask Rufus with Street Player

Michael Jackson: following up HIStory: Past, Present and Future - Book I with Blood on the Dancefloor: HIStory in the Mix (I know it's primarily a remix album)

Bob Marley: following up Exodus with Kaya ('78)/Survival ('79)

Aretha Franklin: following up her gospel breakthrough Amazing Grace with Hey Now Hey (The Other Side of the Sky)

John Legend: following up Grammy-winner Get Lifted with Once Again

Me'Shell NedegOcello: following up Plantation Lullabies/Peace Beyond Passion with Bitter

I really love "Embrya", but I don't see why it's always called a "difficult" or a "weird" album, or something like that. Listening to that album is a really soothing experience. It's an easy record to listen to from start to finish. Besides, it charted high, sold well enough and got plenty of 4 and 5 star reviews, so when people make it seem like it was a "flop" or a "disaster" I have very little idea what they are talking about. I don't remember anyone saying or writing negative things about the record at the time.

BUT I have to admit that after I saw this video...

... I can see why people thought he was on some sort of weird, artsy-fartsy trip. Maybe it was just the concept that went over everyone's head. I'm quite sure it went over Maxwell's head as well.

novabrkr said:

I really love "Embrya", but I don't see why it's always called a "difficult" or a "weird" album, or something like that. Listening to that album is a really soothing experience. It's an easy record to listen to from start to finish. Besides, it charted high, sold well enough and got plenty of 4 and 5 star reviews, so when people make it seem like it was a "flop" or a "disaster" I have very little idea what they are talking about. I don't remember anyone saying or writing negative things about the record at the time.

BUT I have to admit that after I saw this video...

... I can see why people thought he was on some sort of weird, artsy-fartsy trip. Maybe it was just the concept that went over everyone's head. I'm quite sure it went over Maxwell's head as well.

Actually I remember when that album was first released in the summer of 1998, it certainly didn't get high regard as Maxwell's Urban Hang Suite or MTV Unplugged did. Some people thought it was artistic suicide for him and they thought he was trying way too hard. Fans began to fade away from his ambitious experiments on the album also, but I agree with you. It wasn't a "difficult" album at all. Maybe "weird," but certainly not a "difficult" one. The pretentious song titles were a big turn off for many, as well as the otherworldly lyrics. But actually I totally respected him for it and I still consider it to be his best release, for the reason he didn't play it safe and give people another UHS. The songs on Embrya hit me on a more emotional and heartfelt level than any album he has made also.

For the mixed reception of this album, he had to chill for a while and come out with the more-commercial Now.

[Edited 2/19/11 0:08am]

Perhaps I should have emphasized that I live in Europe. So I formed my impression of it mostly on what type of a reception "Embrya" got in European music magazines / local newspapers and the American magazines that were available here. I don't recall any of the R&B / Soul magazines saying a bad word about it. We still had those back in the day, you know?

However, I'm irked at how narrow the tastes of the R&B / soul crowd can sometimes be. Someone experiments a little with the music and the general approach and it instantly gets too weird for the larger crowds. Some people have made it seem like "Embrya" was the modern R&B equivalent of "Metal Machine Music" or something.

novabrkr said:

Perhaps I should have emphasized that I live in Europe. So I formed my impression of it mostly on what type of a reception "Embrya" got in European music magazines / local newspapers and the American magazines that were available here. I don't recall any of the R&B / Soul magazines saying a bad word about it. We still had those back in the day, you know?

However, I'm irked at how narrow the tastes of the R&B / soul crowd can sometimes be. Someone experiments a little with the music and the general approach and it instantly gets too weird for the larger crowds. Some people have made it seem like "Embrya" was the modern R&B equivalent of "Metal Machine Music" or something.

That's what I'm saying. I didn't see Embrya as a clear cut switch from Urban Hang Suite as say Terence Trent D'Arby's Neither Fish Nor Flesh being so "different" from The Hardline According To...

Here in the U.S., there was less positive reception as there was more mediocre to negative reception, so there was a lot of mixed recognition towards the album. I will say he got a harsher reception from folks in the R&B crowd who only understood him for the hits from UHS and not the albums. Embrya did manage to sell reasonably good and score a hit single with "Luxury: Cococure", but everybody was still on the UHS bandwagon. I didn't see it as "different," but it was a weird release at first for me. I didn't love it on the first listen, but on subsequent listens, it was an absolute favorite for me and in many cases, his best album.

I will say this one thing, Columbia Records and Maxwell both promoted the hell out of this album more than Urban Hang Suite, which was more of a word-of-mouth thing. I remember seeing the commercial ads and being freaked out by them, but at the same time, I was excited about the album even more.

LiveToTell86 said:

trueiopian said:

janet. to The Velvet Rope

Seriously? With songs like "Every Time" & "Go Deep"? The janet. record already had "This Time" & "New Agenda" that can be called "less commercial" than the singles, TVR just built upon all that.

I'm Breathless was based on a hyped movie project so in that aspect it's as commercial as it could get, just because it wasn't contemporary, it was still based on regular big band stuff, not to mention the various movie quotes in the audio was inspired by Prince's Batman.

To me Supposed Former Infatuation Junkie is the poster-album for this.

There was only one surefire hit single on TVR, and that was Together Again. Indeed, Every Time and Go Deep didn't have much of an impact.

The album as a whole is not really commercial when compared to janet. It's an album about depression, after all. The lead single set the tone for the project.

VoicesCarry said:

There was only one surefire hit single on TVR, and that was Together Again. Indeed, Every Time and Go Deep didn't have much of an impact.

The album as a whole is not really commercial when compared to janet. It's an album about depression, after all. The lead single set the tone for the project.

Not having much impact does not mean those singles weren't commercial in the first place. "Every Time" was basically "Again Part 2" and "Go Deep" was a simple dance song, not that different from "Because Of Love" or something. Also, most of the album had nothing to do with depression, plus the average record buyer decides on an album based on the singles and apart from "Got 'Til It's Gone", they used commerical songs that were meant to get airplay. It's not like the album was judged by the title track or "Free Xone", just like how it didn't matter that janet. had non-commercial album tracks like "This Time" or "New Agenda". It's true Janet had more personal lyrics on TVR but that doesn't make the melodies or the production less commercial.

LiveToTell86 said:

VoicesCarry said:

There was only one surefire hit single on TVR, and that was Together Again. Indeed, Every Time and Go Deep didn't have much of an impact.

The album as a whole is not really commercial when compared to janet. It's an album about depression, after all. The lead single set the tone for the project.

Not having much impact does not mean those singles weren't commercial in the first place. "Every Time" was basically "Again Part 2" and "Go Deep" was a simple dance song, not that different from "Because Of Love" or something. Also, most of the album had nothing to do with depression, plus the average record buyer decides on an album based on the singles and apart from "Got 'Til It's Gone", they used commerical songs that were meant to get airplay. It's not like the album was judged by the title track or "Free Xone", just like how it didn't matter that janet. had non-commercial album tracks like "This Time" or "New Agenda". It's true Janet had more personal lyrics on TVR but that doesn't make the melodies or the production less commercial.

I guess we'll simply have to agree to disagree. The majority of tracks on there could never have made it as singles, whereas with janet., basically anything could have been a hit (sorry, This Time and New Agenda are very commercial would have fit well alongside what was actually released - in fact, This Time was considered for single release). The Velvet Rope was a concept album about her struggle with depression - the mood it establishes and maintains makes it very clear. It was not intended to be a hitmaker along the lines of her previous three albums, and it wasn't.

[Edited 2/19/11 4:38am]