Where's the guitar God of the 21st century? Where's the tortured female singer/songwriter? Are there any new artists out there today who you could seriously call a musician? At least in the 90s you still had great rock bands like Guns N Roses and RHCP with guys who could play the fuck out of their instruments.

Who do we have today? Okay, Lady Gaga can play the piano, but even then, you never hear her doing it on her records, only in live performances. It's as if the very idea of an artist performing their own music on their own songs has become an outdated and unfashionable custom.

It's all shitty R&B drivel, mass produced with drum machines and cheap synths.

Why isn't the music industry supporting and nuturing new artists who can play an instrument?

[Edited 1/7/11 3:07am]

Because cheap shit is what the labels want out there and they've kept everything else from being signed to make sure it never goes out of style. They've done it so long that they've raised a whole new generation on hot dogs and never let them taste steak. It's at the point now that if you gave them steak, they wouldn't want it because hot dogs is all they know.

Well there's also issue of investing time and discipline in learning an instrument. It seems there are rather few artists out there are still willing to do so. If they do, they go into genres that are non pop oriented, so they get little mainstream acknolwedgement. Many artists are to blame on one end for choosing the producer driven route and the public on the other for being so ignorant about seeking out new genres to explore and both sides for their laziness.

Then there's the looks thing. Many instrumentalists won't make the video cut lookswise. Given that many are now older and/or not picture perfect, they are ditched in favor of young hot things who are too lazy to learn to read/play music.

Add to this the costs of sessions and sessions musicians. If you can use the mixing board to make "tracks" from synths or simply loop a small instrumental (let's NOT mention sampling) and simulate instruments, you just cut down on your entire overhead.

Basically the musician has been relagated to the tour and then they are not exactly the focus of the fans.

IOW, the public tolerates it, so that's what we get.

There are lots of real musicians still making vibrant and excellent music today! Shrinking radio playlists and an increasingly ADD public have pushed most of them out of the mainstream, though.

MattyJam said:

It's all shitty R&B drivel, mass produced with drum machines and cheap synths.

Why would the synths be cheap?

I've never understood this line of argumentation when people complain about the current state of popular music. Is there really a need to refer to the price tag of an instrument if you don't like what it sounds like on a record? It's incorrect in any case. Most of those producers and their associates use the most expensive gear out there as they can afford it.

If you meant that producing music with synths is cheaper than having session musicians providing their own parts then it makes more sense. However, that type of music seems to be what the public wants. It's just easier to listen to for many. Even if a lot of people would publicly claim that they like "real instruments" more than "synths and drum machines", it just doesn't necessarily correlate with their purchasing decisions. I've noticed this over the years myself.

brooksie said:

Well there's also issue of investing time and discipline in learning an instrument. It seems there are rather few artists out there are still willing to do so. If they do, they go into genres that are non pop oriented, so they get little mainstream acknolwedgement.

Exactly.

Moonbeam said:

There are lots of real musicians still making vibrant and excellent music today! Shrinking radio playlists and an increasingly ADD public have pushed most of them out of the mainstream, though.

THAT^^^

If you're looking for real musicians in mainstream mediums, then that was your FIRST mistake. The indie scene is booming with so many great talents, and nowadays you have the advantage of finding their music just a single click away.

[Edited 1/7/11 6:51am]

MattyJam said:

Where's the guitar God of the 21st century? Where's the tortured female singer/songwriter? Are there any new artists out there today who you could seriously call a musician? At least in the 90s you still had great rock bands like Guns N Roses and RHCP with guys who could play the fuck out of their instruments.

Who do we have today? Okay, Lady Gaga can play the piano, but even then, you never hear her doing it on her records, only in live performances. It's as if the very idea of an artist performing their own music on their own songs has become an outdated and unfashionable custom.

It's all shitty R&B drivel, mass produced with drum machines and cheap synths.

Why isn't the music industry supporting and nuturing new artists who can play an instrument?

[Edited 1/7/11 3:07am]

Times change, tastes change. The Pro Tools generation, imo, is beginning to mature and we are seeing more interesting music coming from the new technology.

funksterr said:

MattyJam said:

Where's the guitar God of the 21st century? Where's the tortured female singer/songwriter? Are there any new artists out there today who you could seriously call a musician? At least in the 90s you still had great rock bands like Guns N Roses and RHCP with guys who could play the fuck out of their instruments.

Who do we have today? Okay, Lady Gaga can play the piano, but even then, you never hear her doing it on her records, only in live performances. It's as if the very idea of an artist performing their own music on their own songs has become an outdated and unfashionable custom.

It's all shitty R&B drivel, mass produced with drum machines and cheap synths.

Why isn't the music industry supporting and nuturing new artists who can play an instrument?

[Edited 1/7/11 3:07am]

Times change, tastes change. The Pro Tools generation, imo, is beginning to mature and we are seeing more interesting music coming from the new technology.

Agreed. I like music with live instruments but I don't think by definition music with live instruments is always good and music with synths is always bad. You can make a good creative song with either. Just because something has live instruments doesn't make it great. Nickelback anyone?

They are just tools. You can use either live instruments or synths in a good way or a bad boring way.

But I do think there is too much emphasis on just the programmed stuff. It has its place but live instruments shouldn't be completely eliminated from songwriting. I would like to see more music where the two are combined.

I think back in the 80's, yes they used a lot of synths and drum machines but they combined it more with live instruments as well. Look at Duran Duran for example.

In the old days, people didn't have video games, cable/satellite, cell phones, DVD/VCR, computers, internet, etc. At most, there was a pinball machine, but people generally didn't have it in their house. There were only 3 networks, plus PBS and a couple of UHF channels (at least in the USA). They had nothing to do, so learned an instrument or formed doo wop/vocal groups. People were excited about buying a new 45, and some were inspired by the performer on the record to want to do music.

MickyDolenz said:

In the old days, people didn't have video games, cable/satellite, cell phones, DVD/VCR, computers, internet, etc. At most, there was a pinball machine, but people generally didn't have it in their house. There were only 3 networks, plus PBS and a couple of UHF channels (at least in the USA). They had nothing to do, so learned an instrument or formed doo wop/vocal groups. People were excited about buying a new 45, and some were inspired by the performer on the record to want to do music.

wish I had a time machine to go back to those days

There are, just not promoted I guess.

And like someone suggested, I do hope this generation matures to have some great stuff in this day and age. Mixing synths and live instruments never hurt nobody either.

There are lots of talented people in the music industry. A great deal of them are behind the scenes, producing and playing behind these industry-created "faces" they sell the public.

BlaqueKnight said:

There are lots of talented people in the music industry. A great deal of them are behind the scenes, producing and playing behind these industry-created "faces" they sell the public.

I'm convinced they're trained hypnotists.

novabrkr said:

If you meant that producing music with synths is cheaper than having session musicians providing their own parts then it makes more sense.

I'm pretty sure that's what they mean. Real strings vs. synth strings, even if the rack cost a fortune once.

I'd like to add to this thread when I have some more time!

John Legend? Alicha Keys? My only guess is that they are out there but their not getting as promoted or that much showcase as the other manufactured crap they feed us

Oh, and synths rule, especially in the right hands!

.

[Edited 1/7/11 17:19pm]

I've often wondered...besdies economics / state of the industry / musical tastes........just how much negative effect the persistent erosion of music programs in the schools has had on the last 3-4 generations of potential musicians.

I'm betting if hasn't at least shrunk the NUMBER of possible musical talents, it certainly has made them less inclined & less musically affluent as a group of "up & comers".

There's a myriad of young instrumentalists recording blues, jazz, gospel and indie R & B/soul. You won't discover these great talents listening to Top 40 radio.

Harlepolis said:

Moonbeam said:

There are lots of real musicians still making vibrant and excellent music today! Shrinking radio playlists and an increasingly ADD public have pushed most of them out of the mainstream, though.

THAT^^^

If you're looking for real musicians in mainstream mediums, then that was your FIRST mistake. The indie scene is booming with so many great talents, and nowadays you have the advantage of finding their music just a single click away.

[Edited 1/7/11 6:51am]

because its not what the public wants as a collective and labels are not set up to market it to you that way. Music is cheap to make which means alot of GARBAGE is being made by joe shcmo on the corner who "thinks" he is a musician, thats the biggest issue, that mind set is the publics and that translates to the labels and the powers that be, till that changes (which its not going to till this generation dies off) you will have music sold as an add on, a side dish like french fries.

I was thinking the market is wide open for a really good new young band to come up and do what Gaga has done. Be competent live, don't be afraid to make hooky poppy songs with a little edge and promote the hell out of yourself. Maybe it needs to be a girl-group?

Genesia said:

Lady Gaga is talented...seen her in concert. If she focused more on her music (change it up) and stop w/ all the crazy antics, then just MAYBE she could have some sort of longevity. There's no one else I can think of though.

John Legend? The Roots?

lastdecember said:

because its not what the public wants as a collective and labels are not set up to market it to you that way. Music is cheap to make which means alot of GARBAGE is being made by joe shcmo on the corner who "thinks" he is a musician, thats the biggest issue, that mind set is the publics and that translates to the labels and the powers that be, till that changes (which its not going to till this generation dies off) you will have music sold as an add on, a side dish like french fries.

Are you saying that all contemporary music is garbage? What is garbage to you may be another person's treasure. I object to the term "real musicians". I love music with live instruments, but people who do electronic or synthesized music are real musicians as well. An untalented person can buy a guitar and make a crappy record with that as well. It actually does take talent to make a good electronic dance song.

To me there is good music and bad music being made now, just like there was in the past. Not everything from the 80's was great either.

It seems kind of snobbish to keep out people who want to make music and say only people who you approve of are allowed in the industry.

Like it or not, people do see music as entertainment. Something that's fun and makes them happy and smile. Why do people buy french fries? Because they taste good and they like them. It's the same with music. You want everything to be deep and artistic, but people like fun pop songs to take them away from the pain of everyday life. Of course there should still be a place for deeper artistic music, but you can't take the fun and superficial side out of music. It is entertainment after all.

Glindathegood said:

lastdecember said:

because its not what the public wants as a collective and labels are not set up to market it to you that way. Music is cheap to make which means alot of GARBAGE is being made by joe shcmo on the corner who "thinks" he is a musician, thats the biggest issue, that mind set is the publics and that translates to the labels and the powers that be, till that changes (which its not going to till this generation dies off) you will have music sold as an add on, a side dish like french fries.

Are you saying that all contemporary music is garbage? What is garbage to you may be another person's treasure. I object to the term "real musicians". I love music with live instruments, but people who do electronic or synthesized music are real musicians as well. An untalented person can buy a guitar and make a crappy record with that as well. It actually does take talent to make a good electronic dance song.

To me there is good music and bad music being made now, just like there was in the past. Not everything from the 80's was great either.

It seems kind of snobbish to keep out people who want to make music and say only people who you approve of are allowed in the industry.

Like it or not, people do see music as entertainment. Something that's fun and makes them happy and smile. Why do people buy french fries? Because they taste good and they like them. It's the same with music. You want everything to be deep and artistic, but people like fun pop songs to take them away from the pain of everyday life. Of course there should still be a place for deeper artistic music, but you can't take the fun and superficial side out of music. It is entertainment after all.

Nobody is saying that you have to play a real instrument to make a great song. But the vast majority of the top 40 today is made up of songs using drum machines and synths - it's the pro-tools generation gone mad. Whilst everything has its place and there's nothing wrong with music made on a computer, the lack of current contemporary artists who have the ability to play an instrument is shockingly low, particularly if you're looking for it in the top 40.

Who's todays guitar God? Where's the Hendrix or Santana or even Slash and Prince of the 21st century? Where are the great rock bands of today? Kings of Leon? Puh-lease! Gimme a break.

[Edited 1/8/11 9:02am]

There are still many rock bands out there performing and releasing records such as My Chemical Romance. So to say no rock stuff exists is not the case.

But a lot of the rock driven artists don't release singles, they release albums so they don't appear on the top 40 single list.

Usually singles consist of the song plus numerous dance remixes. A lot of rock driven stuff doesn't lend itself to remixes. So there is rock and live instrument music but maybe not on the singles chart.

But I do sort of agree that there is too much electronics now. I do wish there was more live instrument music.

But I don't agree that people who do electronic music are not real musicians.

Glindathegood said:

lastdecember said:

because its not what the public wants as a collective and labels are not set up to market it to you that way. Music is cheap to make which means alot of GARBAGE is being made by joe shcmo on the corner who "thinks" he is a musician, thats the biggest issue, that mind set is the publics and that translates to the labels and the powers that be, till that changes (which its not going to till this generation dies off) you will have music sold as an add on, a side dish like french fries.

Are you saying that all contemporary music is garbage? What is garbage to you may be another person's treasure. I object to the term "real musicians". I love music with live instruments, but people who do electronic or synthesized music are real musicians as well. An untalented person can buy a guitar and make a crappy record with that as well. It actually does take talent to make a good electronic dance song.

To me there is good music and bad music being made now, just like there was in the past. Not everything from the 80's was great either.

It seems kind of snobbish to keep out people who want to make music and say only people who you approve of are allowed in the industry.

Like it or not, people do see music as entertainment. Something that's fun and makes them happy and smile. Why do people buy french fries? Because they taste good and they like them. It's the same with music. You want everything to be deep and artistic, but people like fun pop songs to take them away from the pain of everyday life. Of course there should still be a place for deeper artistic music, but you can't take the fun and superficial side out of music. It is entertainment after all.

Well its great what you are saying and im not saying SHUT PEOPLE OUT, im saying the process has become cheap and no one is growing musically anymore which is why you wont see a david bowie a stevie wonder an elton john ever again, and that kind of mind set. What i am seeing is a constant follow the leader type thing, no one is striving to be different with the process of making music. Its all stuck in this loop where everyone has a limit to what they can do, the producers are all using the same beats the same this and that. Of course a person who plays a synth is just as much a musician as anyone else, thats not the issue, I mean my favorite band a-ha has Magne Furuholmen as their keyboard player and this guy put together some of the greatest riffs ever because of "synths" but he grew, he didnt stay stuck in that box, it lead to new sounds and other instruments and ways of making music. Thats what im not seeing, im not seeing growth mainly because the public and labels do not inspire growth and champion artistic growth.

At the end of the day you have to treat music as art, yes it can be fun, the belief that everything artistic is boring is more snobbish and why today is the way it is. I have tons of artists that i listen too, some are artistic and some arent, thats how it is, but im not going to just say that say Ciara is as valuable to Music as Norah Jones because if i dont its snobbish, sorry, but ONE is just better than the other at the end of the day.

As for time periods there was bad in all, the 80's had bad bands, the 90's had alot of horror shows, but what is changing is the focus to someone who can change the scene and shape it and make it relevant again, not just have a catchy pop song and do magazine covers, thats the way it goes now. And sorry but NO ONE can tell me that there is "competition" today, do we have a Prince,Mj,Madonna, GeorgeMichael,StevieWonder, Billy Joel, Bruce Springsteen, all with albums out at the same time? no we dont even have that form of talent at this point, its that simple. Im not saying there isnt talent out there, but im not going to say and reduce it too, oh theres just as much good music and talent today as then, because that is insanity, some times you have to call it what it is, somethings are better than others.

And i dont think its all Garbage, but the belief that "anyone" can do it, is why alot of it is. We all cant be football players and baseball players, so we all cant be singers and actors. Imagine if the Yankees had about 20 players that couldnt play ball at all? Imagine that mind set of anyone can play? and what that would lead to in other fields, thats what im saying.