http://www.tmz.com/2011/0.../#c3949296

It's just a song, what happened to artists being able to express themselves?

I never read or look at anything from TMZ. They're not getting any views from me.

Aww, Canada does not know about bleeping offensive words for radio play. How cute!

Artist are free to express themselves but there are strings attached when the art is being broadcast via public airwaves. That's why, you can get away with curse words and butt shots on cable but broadcasts networks are continually being challenged for indecency.

This has nothing to do with censorship, period.

They are moving pretty slow sifting through songs if they are still on Dire Straits up there!

Wait till they get to 2 Live Crew!!

NDRU said:

They are moving pretty slow sifting through songs if they are still on Dire Straits up there!

Wait till they get to 2 Live Crew!!

I'm wondering what connection the original poster is trying to make between liberals and Canada? Do you guys down there really think that we are a nation of God hating pinko commie's? We do currently have a conservative prime minister.

It appears someone did not do their homework. The song already exists in a radio friendly edit that has the offending verse excised. I'm guessing that the album version was mistakenly played.

deebee said:

"(Its like) Boom bye bye
Inna batty bwoy head
Rude bwoy no promote no nasty man
Dem haffi dead
Boom bye bye
Inna batty bwoy head
Rude bwoy no promote no nasty man
Dem haffi dead"

- Buju Banton, 1992

"There is no end to the war between me and faggot."

- Buju Banton, 2009

Yeah, clearly, he's a real reformed character. I only brought up the Tatchell thing as in interesting aside, but since you raise the Banton issue, my take is good on the activists that pressured him into pledging to stop profiting from promoting the murder of gay people (even if he doesn't seem to have taken the message to heart or sought to do it of his own accord). It's no great loss if a few little wannabe rude boys don't get to see their favourite dancehall singer if the payoff is keeping homophobic scum out of our country.

Cross posted response from the dupe thread that got closed.

I'm more than familiar with the lyrics to "Boom Bye Bye", sadly enough I can still remember every word. I grew up in an area mostly populated by Jamaicans, and Indians (like myself), and my own cousin is one of the biggest selling ragga/dancehall artists of all time and we used to ride around playing all of Buju's music back in the day amongst others. The truth is that we just didn't know any better to have an issue with it.

I'm not homophobic in the slightest. In fact, I hate all kinds of bigotry and ignorance. I defended him because I really thought he was a reformed character. I hadn't heard about that second quote you posted. Wow. It's obviously very difficult to defend those kind of things and I'm not trying to, but on some level you have to realize that for a lot of these guys who grew up in Jamaica really don't know any better. Homophobia is so deeply ingrained in their culture that it's just part of life for these guys. Again, that of course doesn't make it right.

The main issue I have with the way that Tatchell and his douchebag group handled things is that they deliberately played on people's ignorance of different subgenres of reggae music and the result was that many artists, not just dancehall artists, but other forms of reggae, had difficulties performing here despite never having uttered a homophobic word and in some cases making music that has very little in common with dancehall. There's guys that do exclusively make spiritual roots reggae, and "lovers rock", another more traditional kind of reggae that exclusively deals with love songs, and many of these guys are getting painted with the same brush, and they don't deserve it in the slightest. I feel that the activists should have promoted artists on a case-by-case basis rather than trying to paint ALL jamaican singers as being homophobic, which isn't the case at all.

Also, you don't need to patronize dancehall fans as "wannabe rude boys". I think that's a little unfair. I'm a fan of lots of different genres of music, and although I don't listen to a great deal of ragga anymore, if someone like Capleton or Sizzla (both of whom renounced homophobia and were actually positively acknowledged by Tatchell for doing so, as seen here) were to play in my city, I'd certainly have some interest in going, and I don't think that makes me a "wannabe rude boy". I'm just a guy that appreciates many different forms of music. Sizzla in particular has made a lot of very positive music that was very inspirational to me in my younger days.

Buju's shit sounds mean-spirited (and in the first person).

Dire Straits was from the point of view of someone else who is describing a rock star that way.

I think instead of censoring words, they could just flag the songs with malignant intent.

The radio can play anything if the words are muted. We need a radio edit of "Money For Nothing" STAT!

Cinnie said:

Buju's shit sounds mean-spirited (and in the first person).

Dire Straits was from the point of view of someone else who is describing a rock star that way.

I think instead of censoring words, they could just flag the songs with malignant intent.

The radio can play anything if the words are muted. We need a radio edit of "Money For Nothing" STAT!

There already is a radio edit of "Money For Nothing." On the first Dire Straits compilation, which was released in 1988 and was titled Money For Nothing, the offending verse is excised. On most subsequent compilations the same edit is featured. I strongly suspect that the vast majority of times the song is played on the radio the edited version is used. The headline "Canada bans Dire Straits" is completely bogus and I suspect was used to create a controversy where none existed. If any of the jackasses who covered this "story" did five seconds of research they would have discovered that a radio friendly version already exists but that would ruin their "story." Sorry for the rant but irresponsible journalism makes me angry.

Militant said:

deebee said:

"(Its like) Boom bye bye
Inna batty bwoy head
Rude bwoy no promote no nasty man
Dem haffi dead
Boom bye bye
Inna batty bwoy head
Rude bwoy no promote no nasty man
Dem haffi dead"

- Buju Banton, 1992

"There is no end to the war between me and faggot."

- Buju Banton, 2009

Yeah, clearly, he's a real reformed character. I only brought up the Tatchell thing as in interesting aside, but since you raise the Banton issue, my take is good on the activists that pressured him into pledging to stop profiting from promoting the murder of gay people (even if he doesn't seem to have taken the message to heart or sought to do it of his own accord). It's no great loss if a few little wannabe rude boys don't get to see their favourite dancehall singer if the payoff is keeping homophobic scum out of our country.

Cross posted response from the dupe thread that got closed.

I'm more than familiar with the lyrics to "Boom Bye Bye", sadly enough I can still remember every word. I grew up in an area mostly populated by Jamaicans, and Indians (like myself), and my own cousin is one of the biggest selling ragga/dancehall artists of all time and we used to ride around playing all of Buju's music back in the day amongst others. The truth is that we just didn't know any better to have an issue with it.

I'm not homophobic in the slightest. In fact, I hate all kinds of bigotry and ignorance. I defended him because I really thought he was a reformed character. I hadn't heard about that second quote you posted. Wow. It's obviously very difficult to defend those kind of things and I'm not trying to, but on some level you have to realize that for a lot of these guys who grew up in Jamaica really don't know any better. Homophobia is so deeply ingrained in their culture that it's just part of life for these guys. Again, that of course doesn't make it right.

The main issue I have with the way that Tatchell and his douchebag group handled things is that they deliberately played on people's ignorance of different subgenres of reggae music and the result was that many artists, not just dancehall artists, but other forms of reggae, had difficulties performing here despite never having uttered a homophobic word and in some cases making music that has very little in common with dancehall. There's guys that do exclusively make spiritual roots reggae, and "lovers rock", another more traditional kind of reggae that exclusively deals with love songs, and many of these guys are getting painted with the same brush, and they don't deserve it in the slightest. I feel that the activists should have promoted artists on a case-by-case basis rather than trying to paint ALL jamaican singers as being homophobic, which isn't the case at all.

Also, you don't need to patronize dancehall fans as "wannabe rude boys". I think that's a little unfair. I'm a fan of lots of different genres of music, and although I don't listen to a great deal of ragga anymore, if someone like Capleton or Sizzla (both of whom renounced homophobia and were actually positively acknowledged by Tatchell for doing so, as seen here) were to play in my city, I'd certainly have some interest in going, and I don't think that makes me a "wannabe rude boy". I'm just a guy that appreciates many different forms of music. Sizzla in particular has made a lot of very positive music that was very inspirational to me in my younger days.

Ok, fair do's - I have to respect that response. And, yes, I am being unduly bitchy about dancehall fans. I don't have any problem with them, in all honesty, but I do think sometimes the defence of an important principle has to trump people entertaining themselves however they please (e.g. having the enjoyment of their favourite artist coming to play), and though that might create annoyance, that shouldn't be elevated to the status of a principle.

I'm still not convinced that the above is a fair characterisation of Tatchell's campaign, though. I don't recall the campaign itself tarring other singers with the same brush. I could, however, imagine that, in its wake, there was some 'collateral damage', and the market for dancehall artists in the UK took a hit, as promoters, venues, etc, were wary about booking gigs. And it's also conceivable that there was prejudice on the part of individuals sympathetic to the campaign. I support the principled stance of stopping people profiting from promoting bigotry (especially murderous bigotry), but I'd happily agree that if that carelessly gets directed at artists that aren't doing that it's wrong.

I'm not an unqualified fan of Tatchell but I thought he himself made a decent fist of trying to overcome divisiveness, rather that ramp it up, in that situation; reaching out and talking about how, historically, there had been struggles by black and former colonial populations against prejudice and oppression (often reflected in the music), and by gay people against prejudice and oppression, and that these should be aligned. I think that's a sound basis for this kind of objection, and it's possibly part of a way out of the bind you allude to faced by people (including myself!) that love certain styles of music but not the bigotry that can be ingrained in them.

P.S. In case anyone's just tuning-in, wondering how we got onto the tangent above, here's our point of departure from the dupe thread.

Militant said:

I wonder if they banned "One In A Million" by Guns N' Roses....

What about "Fairytale In New York" by The Pogues and Kirsty MacColl? That has the word "faggot" in it too.

deebee said:

Y'know, that came up here a couple of years ago, when the gay activist Peter Tatchell raised the point about why the BBC Radio 1 still plays it at Christmas. As I recall, some of the newspapers reported that he was trying to get it banned, but I think his point was more to ask 'why is this acceptable?', where songs with other slurs wouldn't be. He put a challenge to his critics to publicly defend a song that had the 'N-word' in it being played on prime time BBC radio, which I had to admit was a fairly compelling argument.

My take is that a 'clean' version [of 'Money for Nothing'] is probably the easiest way to go, if people are offended. It makes the gesture, but it means the song can still get airplay. That said, if no-one's actually ever saidthey're offended by it, then trawling the annals of popular music, seeking out lyrics that some hypothetical person might possibly be offended by in a hypothetical scenario is likely to be unnecessary!

deebee said:

Ok, fair do's - I have to respect that response. And, yes, I am being unduly bitchy about dancehall fans. I don't have any problem with them, in all honesty, but I do think sometimes the defence of an important principle has to trump people entertaining themselves however they please (e.g. having the enjoyment of their favourite artist coming to play), and though that might create annoyance, that shouldn't be elevated to the status of a principle.

I'm still not convinced that the above is a fair characterisation of Tatchell's campaign, though. I don't recall the campaign itself tarring other singers with the same brush. I could, however, imagine that, in its wake, there was some 'collateral damage', and the market for dancehall artists in the UK took a hit, as promoters, venues, etc, were wary about booking gigs. And it's also conceivable that there was prejudice on the part of individuals sympathetic to the campaign. I support the principled stance of stopping people profiting from promoting bigotry (especially murderous bigotry), but I'd happily agree that if that carelessly gets directed at artists that aren't doing that it's wrong.

I'm not an unqualified fan of Tatchell but I thought he himself made a decent fist of trying to overcome divisiveness, rather that ramp it up, in that situation; reaching out and talking about how, historically, there had been struggles by black and former colonial populations against prejudice and oppression (often reflected in the music), and by gay people against prejudice and oppression, and that these should be aligned. I think that's a sound basis for this kind of objection, and it's possibly part of a way out of the bind you allude to faced by people (including myself!) that love certain styles of music but not the bigotry that can be ingrained in them.

Good post. Of course I'm not opposing the fact that promoting hate and bigotry is wrong. My take on it is that being ignorant to what you're fighting against means that you're unfairly going to cast a dark net over an entire culture, or sub culture when really what you need to do is accurately pinpoint the real problems. It's like firing a shotgun into a crowd when all you needed to do was use a sniper rifle and take out a few specific individuals.

And there definitely were other singers tarred with the same brush, as well as the collateral damage and prejudice you spoke of. Buju was clearly a bad example on my part, since I wasn't aware of the recent remark. But there are definitely, 100%, other artists who have either renounced previous remarks, or never displayed any homophobia to begin with, and they were still having trouble getting into the country or losing money. And in other cases, there was so much backlash from OutRage regarding an event that may have had 5 or 6 artists on the bill, of whom perhaps just one had made very offensive remarks, that the promoters were forced to cancel the whole thing, so all the other artists on the bill suffered and lost money too.

It's obviously a very difficult thing to do, and I'm of course not opposed to what they were trying to do, I just think it could have been handled a lot better and in ways that didn't damage a culture as a whole based on the actions of a few people.

rialb said:

Cinnie said:

Buju's shit sounds mean-spirited (and in the first person).

Dire Straits was from the point of view of someone else who is describing a rock star that way.

I think instead of censoring words, they could just flag the songs with malignant intent.

The radio can play anything if the words are muted. We need a radio edit of "Money For Nothing" STAT!

There already is a radio edit of "Money For Nothing." On the first Dire Straits compilation, which was released in 1988 and was titled Money For Nothing, the offending verse is excised. On most subsequent compilations the same edit is featured. I strongly suspect that the vast majority of times the song is played on the radio the edited version is used. The headline "Canada bans Dire Straits" is completely bogus and I suspect was used to create a controversy where none existed. If any of the jackasses who covered this "story" did five seconds of research they would have discovered that a radio friendly version already exists but that would ruin their "story." Sorry for the rant but irresponsible journalism makes me angry.

You're absolutely right!!! It is totally edited out!

I want my, I want my M.T.V.

Now look at them yo-yo's, that's the way you do it
You play the guitar on the M.T.V.
That ain't working, that's the way you do it
Money for nothing and your chicks for free

Now that ain't working, that's the way you do it
Let me tell you them guys ain't dumb
Maybe get a blister on your little finger
Baby get a blister on your thumb

We got to install microwave ovens
Custom kitchen deliveries
We got to move these refrigerators
We got to move these colour T.V.'s

The little faggot with the earring and the makeup
Yeah buddy, that's his own hair
That little faggot got his own jet airplane
That little faggot he's a millionaire

We got to install microwave ovens
Custom kitchen deliveries
We got to move these refrigerators
We got to move these colour T.V.'s

We got to install microwave ovens
Custom kitchen deliveries
We got to move these refrigerators
We got to move these colour T.V.'s

Look at that, look at that
I should have learned to play the guitar
I should have learned to play them drums
Look at that mama, she got it sticking in the camera
Man we can have some
And he's up there, what's that? Hawaiian noises?
Banging on the bongos like a chimpanzee
Oh, that ain't working, that's the way you do it
Get your money for nothing get your chicks for free

We got to install microwave ovens
Custom kitchen deliveries
We got to move these refrigerators
We got to move these colour T.V.'s

Listen here
Now that ain't working, that's the way you do it
You play the guitar on the M.T.V.
That ain't working, that's the way you do it
Money for nothing and your chicks for free
Money for nothing and chicks for free

Money for nothing, and your chicks for free
Get your money for nothing, and your chicks for free
I want my, I want my, I want my M.T.V.

It has been years since I heard that "offending" verse on radio!

But it is still in the original video: http://video.yahoo.com/wa...30/1076266

During this part, the rough appliance mover is commenting on this video:

The visual is actually sampled from Hungarian pop band Elso Emelet!

wiki said:

Cinnie said:

rialb said:

There already is a radio edit of "Money For Nothing." On the first Dire Straits compilation, which was released in 1988 and was titled Money For Nothing, the offending verse is excised. On most subsequent compilations the same edit is featured. I strongly suspect that the vast majority of times the song is played on the radio the edited version is used. The headline "Canada bans Dire Straits" is completely bogus and I suspect was used to create a controversy where none existed. If any of the jackasses who covered this "story" did five seconds of research they would have discovered that a radio friendly version already exists but that would ruin their "story." Sorry for the rant but irresponsible journalism makes me angry.

You're absolutely right!!! It is totally edited out!

I want my, I want my M.T.V.

Now look at them yo-yo's, that's the way you do it
You play the guitar on the M.T.V.
That ain't working, that's the way you do it
Money for nothing and your chicks for free

Now that ain't working, that's the way you do it
Let me tell you them guys ain't dumb
Maybe get a blister on your little finger
Baby get a blister on your thumb

We got to install microwave ovens
Custom kitchen deliveries
We got to move these refrigerators
We got to move these colour T.V.'s

The little faggot with the earring and the makeup
Yeah buddy, that's his own hair
That little faggot got his own jet airplane
That little faggot he's a millionaire

We got to install microwave ovens
Custom kitchen deliveries
We got to move these refrigerators
We got to move these colour T.V.'s

We got to install microwave ovens
Custom kitchen deliveries
We got to move these refrigerators
We got to move these colour T.V.'s

Look at that, look at that
I should have learned to play the guitar
I should have learned to play them drums
Look at that mama, she got it sticking in the camera
Man we can have some
And he's up there, what's that? Hawaiian noises?
Banging on the bongos like a chimpanzee
Oh, that ain't working, that's the way you do it
Get your money for nothing get your chicks for free

We got to install microwave ovens
Custom kitchen deliveries
We got to move these refrigerators
We got to move these colour T.V.'s

Listen here
Now that ain't working, that's the way you do it
You play the guitar on the M.T.V.
That ain't working, that's the way you do it
Money for nothing and your chicks for free
Money for nothing and chicks for free

Money for nothing, and your chicks for free
Get your money for nothing, and your chicks for free
I want my, I want my, I want my M.T.V.

The odd thing is that in the booklet with the Money For Nothing compilation the lyrics to the song do include that verse despite the fact that it is not included on the actual song.

rialb said:

Cinnie said:

You're absolutely right!!! It is totally edited out!

I want my, I want my M.T.V.

Now look at them yo-yo's, that's the way you do it
You play the guitar on the M.T.V.
That ain't working, that's the way you do it
Money for nothing and your chicks for free

Now that ain't working, that's the way you do it
Let me tell you them guys ain't dumb
Maybe get a blister on your little finger
Baby get a blister on your thumb

We got to install microwave ovens
Custom kitchen deliveries
We got to move these refrigerators
We got to move these colour T.V.'s

The little faggot with the earring and the makeup
Yeah buddy, that's his own hair
That little faggot got his own jet airplane
That little faggot he's a millionaire

We got to install microwave ovens
Custom kitchen deliveries
We got to move these refrigerators
We got to move these colour T.V.'s

We got to install microwave ovens
Custom kitchen deliveries
We got to move these refrigerators
We got to move these colour T.V.'s

Look at that, look at that
I should have learned to play the guitar
I should have learned to play them drums
Look at that mama, she got it sticking in the camera
Man we can have some
And he's up there, what's that? Hawaiian noises?
Banging on the bongos like a chimpanzee
Oh, that ain't working, that's the way you do it
Get your money for nothing get your chicks for free

We got to install microwave ovens
Custom kitchen deliveries
We got to move these refrigerators
We got to move these colour T.V.'s

Listen here
Now that ain't working, that's the way you do it
You play the guitar on the M.T.V.
That ain't working, that's the way you do it
Money for nothing and your chicks for free
Money for nothing and chicks for free

Money for nothing, and your chicks for free
Get your money for nothing, and your chicks for free
I want my, I want my, I want my M.T.V.

The odd thing is that in the booklet with the Money For Nothing compilation the lyrics to the song do include that verse despite the fact that it is not included on the actual song.

The funny thing is all the comments on that particular YouTube regarding the recent story when the verse does not appear there.

For this live performance, "faggot" was replaced with "queenie"

I am reading that there are rock stations that make a point of not playing edited down versions, and always play full-length album versions of their classic rock.

One station in my province retaliated by playing the unedited "Money For Nothing" repeatedly for an hour.

Cinnie said:

For this live performance, "faggot" was replaced with "queenie"

Funnily enough, I remember having the cassette of Brothers in Arms, back in the day, and "queenie" appeared in the liner notes, even though it was still "faggot" on the record.

deebee said:

Cinnie said:

For this live performance, "faggot" was replaced with "queenie"

Funnily enough, I remember having the cassette of Brothers in Arms, back in the day, and "queenie" appeared in the liner notes, even though it was still "faggot" on the record.

Aw I remember reading "queenie" too and didn't get it at all!!

Funnily?

Canada has always hated free speech, go figure.

I heard a conservative lawyer here say that "freedom of expression" is not in the constitution, so you can ban pornography, since that speech was never intended to be protected, because the founders didn't know we could sink to that level. Expression, in other words, isn't speech. It's on both sides, but the right has a history of censorship.

sosgemini said:

Funnily?

Oh, y'know... Not 'funny haha'!