Timmy84 said:

MickyDolenz said:

Doesn't matter, people like Oprah or the women on The View have a lot of influence. So does talk radio programs or CNBC. It doesn't matter what the content of the shows, people get their information from them. Some people believe the stories in tabloid papers like the Enquirer, so you can't exactly say it's irrelavant.

Whatever.

Oprah picked the president. Never attempt to diminish her power or influence.

[Edited 12/12/10 17:25pm]

[Edited 12/12/10 17:25pm]

musicjunky318 said:

Timmy84 said:

Whatever.

Oprah picked the president. Never attempt to diminish her power or influence.

[Edited 12/12/10 17:25pm]

[Edited 12/12/10 17:25pm]

It was Bush who picked the president with his disastrous policies

jiorjios said:

musicjunky318 said:

Oprah picked the president. Never attempt to diminish her power or influence.

[Edited 12/12/10 17:25pm]

[Edited 12/12/10 17:25pm]

It was Bush who picked the president with his disastrous policies

Yea but Oprah notoriously swayed the primaries. LOL. It has literally been proven.

musicjunky318 said:

Timmy84 said:

Whatever.

Oprah picked the president. Never attempt to diminish her power or influence.

[Edited 12/12/10 17:25pm]

[Edited 12/12/10 17:25pm]

So I should give her a brownie for that?

Timmy84 said:

musicjunky318 said:

Oprah picked the president. Never attempt to diminish her power or influence.

[Edited 12/12/10 17:25pm]

[Edited 12/12/10 17:25pm]

So I should give her a brownie for that?

She likes donuts.

But yes. All hail mighty O.

musicjunky318 said:

Timmy84 said:

So I should give her a brownie for that?

She likes donuts.

But yes. All hail mighty O.

Girl think more like Krispy Kreme shits.

Timmy84 said:

musicjunky318 said:

She likes donuts.

But yes. All hail mighty O.

Girl think more like Krispy Kreme shits.

Hahaahaha.

MickyDolenz said:

PurpleJedi said:

Elvis stole all his music from black musicians.

So did Charlie Pride, Ray Charles, Sammy Davis Jr, Johnny Mathis, & Marian Anderson steal white music by singing country, showtunes, and opera? What about John Coltrane recording My Favorite Things? Did the Muscle Shoals musicians and some of the Stax and Motown musicians steal black music too? Why do people always trash Elvis but accept others like Hall & Oates, Teena Marie, Michael McDonald, Average White Band, Rolling Stones, Jamiroquai, George Michael, Eric Clapton, Phil Collins, Johnny Ray, Joss Stone, Steely Dan, etc. Did you know some Latin music like Salsa is based on African music? Why aren't they accused of stealing? Elvis has never kept it a secret that he liked black performers and has said many times that Jackie Wilson is his favorite singer.

Very valid point MD. I hate when people reference the same stuff over and over. Every musician steals. Beatles, Prince, Terence Trent Darby, etc. I love and admire all these people, but there is nothing new here folks. Elvis also loved Jackie's version of Don't Be Cruel. They admired eack other.

Timmy84 said:

PurpleJedi said:

Some people will argue that Elvis and Marilyn are just as big hacks as Madonna is purported to be. Marilyn had marginal acting abilities, and Elvis stole all his music from black musicians. The only reason either one really made it big was that they were controversial, same as Madonna. That hip-swinging performance by Elvis on Ed Sullivan or the Marilyn was comparable to the Madonna-in-wedding-dress-writhing-on-floor perfomance on MTV.

Time will ultimately tell.

I often hear that argument about Elvis but why not Bill Haley or Jerry Lee Lewis or Gene Vincent? Or even the Rolling Stones if you wanna go further. It's not fair to say one man stole something that was supposed to be appreciated by ALL people. If anything, he did play a part in people accepting the real R&B because he would always MENTION it (along with the others I mentioned here). I think people singled out Elvis because he got promoted more. As for Marilyn and Madonna, that's what happened to them too - they were singled out. And singled out for a reason.

[Edited 12/12/10 12:23pm]

I'll start here.. . .

As much as the world of music and some of it's musicians believed in and practiced egalitarian principles the World around them wasn't. If Billie Holiday, Sarah Vaughan, Little Richard, James Moody and the countless other geniuses who happened to be Black had been white their careers would have been totally different. If Jazz had emerged out of the white community the music would've been touted but since it's principal players were Black, jazz was once called "jungle music" by whites. What was stolen you ask? The right to make a living and take credit for the music black artist wrote; Duke Ellinton and Billie Holiday were subject to the humiliation of having to attached "white managers" names to each record when these "managers hadn't written one note. It's about Pat Boone singing Little Richard music because radio ( especially in the South) didn't allow Black records to be played on the radio. Though Little Richard "jokes" about being King of Rock & Roll behind the smiles and the laughter is anger and pain because still today black anger is feared and seen as dangerous.

This goes way way deeper than Elvis are any white artist acknowledgement Black artist / music, it was the institutional racism that fostered thievery that's in part what PurpleJedi is speaking of. That thievery of intellectual property, style, lingo, and singing. As I said before we have revisionist history when it come to music and how race has always been a factor, always. Elvis, Buddy Holly, and all white US rockers of early 50's were accused of singing like nigger's and being nigger lovers. One can question how the genre of Rock & Roll would have evolved in the white community if the British Invasion hadn't taken place. What were those British musicians singing? Who steps were Mick copying? What was the music being covered and in Led Zepplin instance stealing? It sho' wasn't Patti Page, "How Much Was That Doggie in The Window".

Still, Black people are going to have to stop whinning about what has been stolen. Black people must be about the job of telling our stories from our perspective. Lord knows Black artist and musicians are giving their shit back because the don't protect what is theirs' Can we say Michael Jackson and the Isley Brothers? Please.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Edited 12/12/10 20:23pm]

[Edited 12/12/10 20:27pm]

For the record, ain't nobody thinking Joss Stone stole except for her image from Nikka Costa. Beyond that, anyone with any credibility understands what a hack no talent Stone is.

sosgemini said:

For the record, ain't nobody thinking Joss Stone stole except for her image from Nikka Costa. Beyond that, anyone with any credibility understands what a hack no talent Stone is.

Oh brother, a music snob. I have nothing else to say to you, because I don't have any interest in negative people.

sosgemini said:

For the record, ain't nobody thinking Joss Stone stole except for her image from Nikka Costa. Beyond that, anyone with any credibility understands what a hack no talent Stone is.

I disagree, sorry. Hack and no talent is very strong statement. I like Nikka too, but noooooooooo.

MickyDolenz said:

badujunkie said:

so the fact that she has more top 10 hits then all of them in the US means nada, ok !

SOMETIMES SCIENCE MATTERS....

If that's the case, then James Brown is 2nd to Elvis as far as the Top 100 singles chart goes. So he's ahead of Madonna and everybody else. But JB doesn't get that much recognition in the mainstream, he's just an R&B singer.

i guess it's a matter of opinion because i believe in the big picture, James Brown is bigger than MJ, Madonna and Prince...

badujunkie said:

MickyDolenz said:

If that's the case, then James Brown is 2nd to Elvis as far as the Top 100 singles chart goes. So he's ahead of Madonna and everybody else. But JB doesn't get that much recognition in the mainstream, he's just an R&B singer.

i guess it's a matter of opinion because i believe in the big picture, James Brown is bigger than MJ, Madonna and Prince...

You know what? being big means people knowing your name years after your peak and before actually knowing your music. That was the case of Elvis and the Beatles for me when I was young and that was the case of James Brown as well, I had heard his name years before I actually heard any song by him so I would say that James Brown is big no matter what credit he gets. And that's also the case of Madonna and Michael in Europe I see it with my brothers who are much younger than me, they knew them way before they got to know their music. That's not the case for Whitney, Mariah, Kylie or Janet for example, at least not in Europe

This is not really just a question of talent it is more to do with timing and cultural context. One could argue that the Beatles etc wer genius. However it is more a situation of relativity I feel. Elvis is more important than Madonna due to the fact he is associated with the birth of the teenager and a changing world post WW2-he has a broader reason for attention. Madonna has some links with post feminisim etc in terms of culture but she is not really synonymous with much beyond being an example of the culture i.e. freedom to look sexual, constant youth through exercise

Symptomatic v Source. Whether society ongoingly will know the difference is a different question so Madonna depressingly will probalbly be more historical-and I'm not a fan of either

MickyDolenz said:

PurpleJedi said:

Elvis stole all his music from black musicians.

So did Charlie Pride, Ray Charles, Sammy Davis Jr, Johnny Mathis, & Marian Anderson steal white music by singing country, showtunes, and opera? What about John Coltrane recording My Favorite Things? Did the Muscle Shoals musicians and some of the Stax and Motown musicians steal black music too? Why do people always trash Elvis but accept others like Hall & Oates, Teena Marie, Michael McDonald, Average White Band, Rolling Stones, Jamiroquai, George Michael, Eric Clapton, Phil Collins, Johnny Ray, Joss Stone, Steely Dan, etc. Did you know some Latin music like Salsa is based on African music? Why aren't they accused of stealing? Elvis has never kept it a secret that he liked black performers and has said many times that Jackie Wilson is his favorite singer.

Please read it in context of my entire post, which was in reference to the people who consider Madonna a hack and Elvis a demigod.

I personally believe Elvis & all the aforementioned acts that you (and others) posted as examples of the importance of African-Americans to American & even worldwide music/culture. Without black musicians, there would BE no rock-&-roll, no blues, no jazz, no hip-hop, and even most of Latin America would be listening to pan-flutes, Rancheras and Spanish boleros, (...Rhumba, Salsa, Merengue, Cumbia, Reggaeton...all products of black integration in Latin America).

Back to the post though;

IMO, Elvis is singled out because of his success. Same as with Madonna.