When she's gone.

Thoughts???

I honestly don't know.

Timmy84 said:

I honestly don't know.

Take a guess Tim.

musicjunky318 said:

Timmy84 said:

I honestly don't know.

Take a guess Tim.

I don't think she'll replace Elvis, but will she be remembered on a wide scale? Yeah.

Well, Madonna will always be the standard to compare female pop artists to...

So I guess...

She's a pretty big figure, maybe a bigger worldwide celebrity, but did she create a sensation like he did? She did not sell as many records or make as many movies.

I am also trying to rememeber any single moment of hers that us burned into my brain as part of eternal pop culture, and I can't really think of any. I have a lot of memories of her, but none of them are particularly classic, defining moments.

NDRU said:

She's a pretty big figure, maybe a bigger worldwide celebrity, but did she create a sensation like he did? She did not sell as many records or make as many movies.

I am also trying to rememeber any single moment of hers that us burned into my brain as part of eternal pop culture, and I can't really think of any. I have a lot of memories of her, but none of them are particularly classic, defining moments.

Exactly plus the times Elvis came on the scene and Madonna's were quite different. Elvis came at a time when America was basically apple pies and bright white teeth. Elvis had a lot of things against him in the media when he first came out.

Madonna could never be seen in the same way.

I doubt it. Female performers in general aren't given the same kind of recognition as male acts and are not taken as seriously. But that is how it goes in society, not just entertainment.

the way mj, elvis and beatles are the biggest historical figures in the music industry, madonna will be that on the female side

Timmy84 said:

NDRU said:

She's a pretty big figure, maybe a bigger worldwide celebrity, but did she create a sensation like he did? She did not sell as many records or make as many movies.

I am also trying to rememeber any single moment of hers that us burned into my brain as part of eternal pop culture, and I can't really think of any. I have a lot of memories of her, but none of them are particularly classic, defining moments.

Exactly plus the times Elvis came on the scene and Madonna's were quite different. Elvis came at a time when America was basically apple pies and bright white teeth. Elvis had a lot of things against him in the media when he first came out.

Madonna could never be seen in the same way.

yeah you could argue that Madonna pushed things in a certain direction culturally, especially for women, but the model for pop star had already been set years before.

That is actually what is so amazing about Michael Jackson's popularity, he was able to be such a sensation after it had already been done by Elvis & the Beatles, and without being shocking or particularly controversial (not in 1983 at least)

But I'm biased. I like M okay, but to me she lacks that special whatever that makes a MJ, Beatles, or Elvis [read "crazy amount of talent & charisma" ]

NDRU said:

She's a pretty big figure, maybe a bigger worldwide celebrity, but did she create a sensation like he did? She did not sell as many records or make as many movies.

I am also trying to rememeber any single moment of hers that us burned into my brain as part of eternal pop culture, and I can't really think of any. I have a lot of memories of her, but none of them are particularly classic, defining moments.

But he didn't sell out as many stadiums around the world the way she did either.

musicjunky318 said:

NDRU said:

She's a pretty big figure, maybe a bigger worldwide celebrity, but did she create a sensation like he did? She did not sell as many records or make as many movies.

I am also trying to rememeber any single moment of hers that us burned into my brain as part of eternal pop culture, and I can't really think of any. I have a lot of memories of her, but none of them are particularly classic, defining moments.

But he didn't sell out as many stadiums around the world the way she did either.

That don't matter. Plus it was two different climates. Madonna emerged at a time when rock stars like the Rolling Stones were filling out stadiums so it was actually a current phenomenon. In HIS heyday, he was the biggest star there was. We're talking about a totally DIFFERENT time.

He also has 23 studio albums, 11 compilations, 7 live albums, and 19 soundtracks compared to her 11 studio albums, 6 compilations, 3 live albums, and 3 live albums. The ratio is a little lopsided.

Plus she hasn't benefited from a death.

musicjunky318 said:

NDRU said:

She's a pretty big figure, maybe a bigger worldwide celebrity, but did she create a sensation like he did? She did not sell as many records or make as many movies.

I am also trying to rememeber any single moment of hers that us burned into my brain as part of eternal pop culture, and I can't really think of any. I have a lot of memories of her, but none of them are particularly classic, defining moments.

But he didn't sell out as many stadiums around the world the way she did either.

The touring market was not the same in Elvis day. It was small, and most acts appeared on package tours and sang 2 or 3 songs, whatever their popular hits were. Tours as a big thing didn't really happen until the 1970's.

musicjunky318 said:

NDRU said:

She's a pretty big figure, maybe a bigger worldwide celebrity, but did she create a sensation like he did? She did not sell as many records or make as many movies.

I am also trying to rememeber any single moment of hers that us burned into my brain as part of eternal pop culture, and I can't really think of any. I have a lot of memories of her, but none of them are particularly classic, defining moments.

But he didn't sell out as many stadiums around the world the way she did either.

true, but a lot of people have sold out stadiums and not been big historical figures. I don't see Justin Bieber being a big historical figure or even Justin Timberlake. Oasis might have played more stadiums than the Beatles at this point.

But she is a long lasting international popular star. Maybe what you're saying is right, and she is more well known around the world. Time will tell. I don't think so personally, but it's possible

Not necessarily, but she's already the most famous female act of all time, only Ella and Aretha are as famous as her (nearly...)

I think, anyway, that she's in in the group of most famous popular artists of all time

Elvis, Beatles, MJ, Madonna, Stones, Nirvana, U2, Eagles, Stevie Wonder, Sinatra, Bowie, James Brown, Zeppelin, or even Prince lol ...

[Edited 12/6/10 17:59pm]

musicjunky318 said:

Plus she hasn't benefited from a death.

He didn't either, but yeah I know what you're saying and I agree.

musicjunky318 said:

He also has 23 studio albums, 11 compilations, 7 live albums, and 19 soundtracks compared to her 11 studio albums, 6 compilations, 3 live albums, and 3 live albums. The ratio is a little lopsided.

Plus she hasn't benefited from a death.

Like I said think back to HIS time and HER time.

In HIS time, albums were put out every year, so were compilations. It was to continue the brand. And the brand continued after his death. His estate kept re-releasing albums and the label kept ordering shipments to bring interest.

With Madonna, she had "event albums" where almost every album had three or four or five hit singles off it. Most of Elvis' hits weren't featured on his studio albums.

JoeTyler said:

Not necessarily, but she's already the most famous female act of all time, only Ella and Aretha are as famous as her (nearly...)

I think Aretha will become (or has already become) the most important female music act of all time. Madonna will be there mainly as an all-around entertainer (same with Diana Ross).

[Edited 12/6/10 17:55pm]

When I think of a historical figure I think they need to have done something that stands the test of time

Marilyn Monroe is still gorgeous despite her bad hair

Elvis is insanely handsome & was a great performer and to many (maybe unfairly) represents the birth of rock & roll

Beatles have an amazing group of songs

MJ danced in a way that seemed nearly impossible

What has Madonna actually done?

Timmy84 said:

JoeTyler said:

Not necessarily, but she's already the most famous female act of all time, only Ella and Aretha are as famous as her (nearly...)

I think Aretha will become (or has already become) the most important female music act of all time. Madonna will be there mainly as an all-around entertainer (same with Diana Ross).

[Edited 12/6/10 17:55pm]

My dad thinks Diana is the biggest female artist of all time. We always argue about it. He grew up during the era so that's probably his chief reason. I say Madonna but he seriously thinks Diana is unrivaled.

NDRU said:

When I think of a historical figure I think they need to have done something that stands the test of time

Marilyn Monroe is still gorgeous despite her bad hair

Elvis is insanely handsome & was a great performer and to many (maybe unfairly) represents the birth of rock & roll

Beatles have an amazing group of songs

MJ danced in a way that seemed nearly impossible

What has Madonna actually done?

First female superstar...

also, she pretty much defined the decade: if you ask a random guy: what do you remember about 80s music? "ehh, Michael and Madonna?"

musicjunky318 said:

Timmy84 said:

I think Aretha will become (or has already become) the most important female music act of all time. Madonna will be there mainly as an all-around entertainer (same with Diana Ross).

[Edited 12/6/10 17:55pm]

My dad thinks Diana is the biggest female artist of all time. We always argue about it. He grew up during the era so that's probably his chief reason. I say Madonna but he seriously thinks Diana is unrivaled.

In a way he could be right. Her role in the Supremes is almost enough to assure that she was someone made a huge impact. No other black group before the Supremes dominated the charts like they did. Then Diana as a solo act did some amazing things in her career. She was indeed the biggest all-around female act (after Barbra Streisand) until Madonna came into the picture.

NDRU said:

When I think of a historical figure I think they need to have done something that stands the test of time

Marilyn Monroe is still gorgeous despite her bad hair

Elvis is insanely handsome & was a great performer and to many (maybe unfairly) represents the birth of rock & roll

Beatles have an amazing group of songs

MJ danced in a way that seemed nearly impossible

What has Madonna actually done?

She'll probably be remembered most for her music videos I think. Her material (similar to Michael Jackson) is tied to the video era of the 80s, 90s, etc unlike the Beatles & Elvis. They were before the revolution. You know it's not just 'Like A Prayer' the song. It's the song AND the video.

NDRU said:

When I think of a historical figure I think they need to have done something that stands the test of time

Marilyn Monroe is still gorgeous despite her bad hair

Elvis is insanely handsome & was a great performer and to many (maybe unfairly) represents the birth of rock & roll

Beatles have an amazing group of songs

MJ danced in a way that seemed nearly impossible

What has Madonna actually done?

It's interesting you said this, rather than she's remembered for her movies and acting. That's basically what the general public thinks about her. She's an image to be sold.

JoeTyler said:

NDRU said:

When I think of a historical figure I think they need to have done something that stands the test of time

Marilyn Monroe is still gorgeous despite her bad hair

Elvis is insanely handsome & was a great performer and to many (maybe unfairly) represents the birth of rock & roll

Beatles have an amazing group of songs

MJ danced in a way that seemed nearly impossible

What has Madonna actually done?

First female superstar...

also, she pretty much defined the decade: if you ask a random guy: what do you remember about 80s music? "ehh, Michael and Madonna?"

I agree--for those of us that were there. I just wonder if Borderline or Vogue are getting new fans today like Heartbreak Hotel or Can't Help Falling In Love (or like Purple Rain, for that matter--certainly Madonna eclipsed Prince's popularity, but his music will be re-discovered IMO)

Are her actual creations timeless?

The most lasting thing that she has done seems to me to be some of her photographs, the way she incorporated S&M or really naughty things with the sexy Marilyn style.

But her singing, dancing, and acting seem to be decent, but not timeless & worthy of historical preservation.

[Edited 12/6/10 18:09pm]

No.

MickyDolenz said:

NDRU said:

When I think of a historical figure I think they need to have done something that stands the test of time

Marilyn Monroe is still gorgeous despite her bad hair

Elvis is insanely handsome & was a great performer and to many (maybe unfairly) represents the birth of rock & roll

Beatles have an amazing group of songs

MJ danced in a way that seemed nearly impossible

What has Madonna actually done?

It's interesting you said this, rather than she's remembered for her movies and acting. That's basically what the general public thinks about her. She's an image to be sold.

yes totally, and I think that to a lesser degree about Elvis. I also think that that could be true for Madonna (more than for her music).

The question is, is her image as iconic as Elvis or Marilyn?

MickyDolenz said:

NDRU said:

When I think of a historical figure I think they need to have done something that stands the test of time

Marilyn Monroe is still gorgeous despite her bad hair

Elvis is insanely handsome & was a great performer and to many (maybe unfairly) represents the birth of rock & roll

Beatles have an amazing group of songs

MJ danced in a way that seemed nearly impossible

What has Madonna actually done?

It's interesting you said this, rather than she's remembered for her movies and acting. That's basically what the general public thinks about her. She's an image to be sold.

Marilyn hated to be referred as a sex symbol and spent like seven years trying to fight off that image that was portrayed on "The Seven-Year Itch" and "Gentlemen Prefer Blondes" films.

musicjunky318 said:

NDRU said:

When I think of a historical figure I think they need to have done something that stands the test of time

Marilyn Monroe is still gorgeous despite her bad hair

Elvis is insanely handsome & was a great performer and to many (maybe unfairly) represents the birth of rock & roll

Beatles have an amazing group of songs

MJ danced in a way that seemed nearly impossible

What has Madonna actually done?

She'll probably be remembered most for her music videos I think. Her material (similar to Michael Jackson) is tied to the video era of the 80s, 90s, etc unlike the Beatles & Elvis. They were before the revolution. You know it's not just 'Like A Prayer' the song. It's the song AND the video.

Like I said, different times. But it's kinda like Michael, they would be compared to them and Michael may be the only one to hold up against Elvis and the Beatles but I don't know if they'll make that connection with Madonna.