MickyDolenz said:

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Is it safe to say between 80 and 85, only Mike was more famous on the RnB side?

Prince didn't become bigger thn Rick until at least 83' am I correct? Lionel Richie and Stevie are the only other one right?

I'd say Luther Vandross was more popular. Some of the singles from Thriller didn't chart that high on the R&B side. Most of Mike's sales were from the crossover audience. That's why he is called the 'King Of Pop'. He couldn't have sold that much only with a black R&B audience. Same for Lionel Richie, Prince, Billy Ocean, Whitney Houston, Janet Jackson, & Tina Turner.

All the single on Thriller were big on the RnB charts minus PYT and Human Nature which I don't know why (weird since I hear those two more than any other MJ songs Majic 102 here in Houston.)

Luther was bigger in the seconf half of the 80's but the first half, Rick. How that even out for the whole decade, I don't know.

He was bigger than Billy Ocean and Tina Turner in the 80s. Probably not Janet and Whitney though.

LittleBLUECorvette said:

MickyDolenz said:

I'd say Luther Vandross was more popular. Some of the singles from Thriller didn't chart that high on the R&B side. Most of Mike's sales were from the crossover audience. That's why he is called the 'King Of Pop'. He couldn't have sold that much only with a black R&B audience. Same for Lionel Richie, Prince, Billy Ocean, Whitney Houston, Janet Jackson, & Tina Turner.

All the single on Thriller were big on the RnB charts minus PYT and Human Nature which I don't know why (weird since I hear those two more than any other MJ songs Majic 102 here in Houston.)

Luther was bigger in the seconf half of the 80's but the first half, Rick. How that even out for the whole decade, I don't know.

He was bigger than Billy Ocean and Tina Turner in the 80s. Probably not Janet and Whitney though.

Freddie Jackson was kinda popular during the late 80's, and New Edition. Kenny G was big with the R&B audience also. Kool & The Gang was another crossover act that was popular with black and white audiences.

Timmy84 said:

Hmm, this poster has seemed to ask so many weird questions but I'll answer, no not so famous where he was known by everybody in the planet.

But he was popular in the US mainly with us (black audiences). He did make an attempt to reach pop audiences with Street Songs and in a way he did because pop audiences only know him from music of that album rather than the albums before and after it.

Rick's entrance came at a good time for many who was looking for a fresh artist though, even if that audience was so-called "limited".

Rick DID pack in stadiums during his heyday though so to answer your question, I think for the time he was actually making hits, yeah he was real popular. Maybe not as popular as his contemporaries but he was popular nonetheless.

I think had Motown thought of promoting music videos during his heyday and Rick wasn't so tore up, he'd be world famous today. Then again, people have a good point about what was deemed famous in the 1980s compared to now. It's two different kind of realms.

So to really answer your question? Yes he was "extremely popular".

[Edited 11/6/10 12:06pm]

Hahaha ! And what are the weird questions that I ask ? You cant find them because I dont ask weird questions . I ask questions that I am curious about . But my thing is , if they are found to be weird by you or anyone else , don 't answer them . No pun intended . BUT anyways , thanks for the answer .

[Edited 11/6/10 18:08pm]

vainandy said:

robertlove said:

You're putting words in the mouth of the original poster.

Why do you make this thread about black music, when the original poster asked a question about Rick James? Where did he say, "was black music extremely popular?"

For me, extremely (!) famous is somebody who is known by everybody worldwide, not only a certain group, right? And Rick James just wasn't. So he wasn't extremely famous.

Has nothing to do with black music being popular in the UK. Michael Jackson was black, wasn't he? And he was huge in the UK. Prince was huge. Rick James wasn't.

Because people act as if a black artist is a failure if he or she didn't crossover and become a huge success on white radio. It's that kind of thinking that completely killed funk. In the mid to late 1980s, many black artists started weakening and watering down their music to try to appeal to white people because they started believing that bullshit themselves.

While many white people consider crossing over as a good thing, I see it as the worst thing a black artist can do and I'm white my damn self. And since you brought up Prince, I was mad as hell when white radio picked up "Little Red Corvette" because once white radio picks up a black artist, a lot of times the artist is never the same afterwards and start weakening and watering down their music to continue that success on white radio. The music is what ends up suffering in the end and when all the black artists started trying to crossover, that's what killed funk. If a white person is cool enough to like funk. That's fine, there was always black radio that welcomed them to listen to it. But don't weaken the music for an audience that doesn't like funk to begin with. Fuck 'em, let 'em keep listening to their Duran Duran.

.

.

.

[Edited 11/6/10 14:51pm]

I said nothing about a Black artists being a failure if theyr didn 't cross over to mainstream . I could care less about that . I just wanted to know if he was famous . And by the way , I am Black . But anyways , everything else you said was very TRUE . I LOVE funk ( disco as well ) and hate it when black artists start trying to appease to what white people like or prefer . Now if the white people like it for what it is , that 's cool . Other than that , they fuck off .

kjw709 said:

Timmy84 said:

Hmm, this poster has seemed to ask so many weird questions but I'll answer, no not so famous where he was known by everybody in the planet.

But he was popular in the US mainly with us (black audiences). He did make an attempt to reach pop audiences with Street Songs and in a way he did because pop audiences only know him from music of that album rather than the albums before and after it.

Rick's entrance came at a good time for many who was looking for a fresh artist though, even if that audience was so-called "limited".

Rick DID pack in stadiums during his heyday though so to answer your question, I think for the time he was actually making hits, yeah he was real popular. Maybe not as popular as his contemporaries but he was popular nonetheless.

I think had Motown thought of promoting music videos during his heyday and Rick wasn't so tore up, he'd be world famous today. Then again, people have a good point about what was deemed famous in the 1980s compared to now. It's two different kind of realms.

So to really answer your question? Yes he was "extremely popular".

[Edited 11/6/10 12:06pm]

Hahaha ! And what are the weird questions that I ask ? You cant find them because I dont ask weird questions . I ask questions that I am curious about . But my thing is , if they are found to be weird by you or anyone else , don 't answer them . No pun intended . BUT anyways , thanks for the answer .

[Edited 11/6/10 18:08pm]

Well not weird but, and don't take this the wrong way, it seemed as if they were spam questions. Remember you posted the same thread twice a while back. You must be real young too, how old are you if you don't mind me asking.

All I can tell you is that I was around in the early 80s and I listened to radio all the time. Not only was Rick playing hits like "Super Freak" on the R&B stations but also on Top 40 radio stations, on constant play. I heard him all the time and I am very familiar with his most popular songs (although in more recent years I investigated his not so popular songs). He was also in videos on various TV shows all the time. So, Rick had plenty of exposure in the 1980s in the U.S. and he was "very popular" or "famous" in all kinds of genres...not only R&B radio stations. I hope that settles the controversy. Radio and television (with the exception of MTV) were not so stratified in those days, like they are now.

Timmy84 said:

kjw709 said:

Hahaha ! And what are the weird questions that I ask ? You cant find them because I dont ask weird questions . I ask questions that I am curious about . But my thing is , if they are found to be weird by you or anyone else , don 't answer them . No pun intended . BUT anyways , thanks for the answer .

[Edited 11/6/10 18:08pm]

Well not weird but, and don't take this the wrong way, it seemed as if they were spam questions. Remember you posted the same thread twice a while back. You must be real young too, how old are you if you don't mind me asking.

Its cool . Yeah I posted the same questions just to see if I would get more answers . Yeah and I will be 21 in Dec . So yeah , I am quite young . lol

LittleBLUECorvette said:

He was bigger than Billy Ocean and Tina Turner in the 80s.

uuuhhhh,...no

street song was the number one album on the black charts for five months and the tour gross over i30 million dollars. i think he was beyond popular.

jackson35 said:

street song was the number one album on the black charts for five months and the tour gross over i30 million dollars. i think he was beyond popular.

And that goes for both "white" and "black" audiences. Ole Rick had a following of both back in the day!

JoeTyler said:

LittleBLUECorvette said:

He was bigger than Billy Ocean and Tina Turner in the 80s.

uuuhhhh,...no

Dude... Billy Ocean had like, one or two hit songs. I think Rick James wins that one.

Nope.

He was very well known in the US but not world famous, which is what I consider to be 'extremely famous'.

Cerebus said:

JoeTyler said:

uuuhhhh,...no

Dude... Billy Ocean had like, one or two hit songs. I think Rick James wins that one.

Billy had more than 2 hit songs. He was popular in the US for a few years. He was played a lot on top 40 stations, adult contemporary, MTV, & BET. R&B stations didn't really play some of Billy's songs like Get Out Of My Dreams Get Into My Car. They mostly played songs like Love Zone and Carribean Queen, which were less pop sounding. On pop and AC radio, Billy was bigger than Rick, but Rick was more popular on the R&B side. As far as pop radio goes, Rick is only known for Superfreak, like Cameo is only known for Word Up.

[img:$uid]http://www.gifsoup.com/view/201069/laughing-baby-o.gif[/img:$uid]

Is it me or is there excessive talk about Rick on the org lately...

As it was explained before... was he extremely famous?

to white America? no

to Black America Yes

You have to understand the racial politics in music.

Alot of black people feel.... (extreme generilization, but anybody whose been to a cook out knows what im talking about)

that white people "Stole" James Brown and Michael Jackson...

(take that however you will)

Rick...

just wasn't pretty and wholesome enough for white america.

MJ was...

lets take Bobby Womack...

You cannot deny the talent Bobby had...

But wasn't really well known out of black circles...

If your black you know that if you got a date and you have some bobby womack on...

somebody's gonna get .... you know...

Have some Bobby Womack playing

and somebodies gonna get some... either you or your neighbors...

But thats a black thang...

breh

MickyDolenz said:

Cerebus said:

Dude... Billy Ocean had like, one or two hit songs. I think Rick James wins that one.

. As far as pop radio goes, Rick is only known for Superfreak, like Cameo is only known for Word Up.

Exactly, good point

and if you ask anybody about Tina, they will say: "oh yeah, Ike & Tina, Private Dancer, Two People, that Miami Vice song (), The Best, Goldeneye", etc...

EmbattledWarrior said:

Is it me or is there excessive talk about Rick on the org lately...

As it was explained before... was he extremely famous?

to white America? no

to Black America Yes

You have to understand the racial politics in music.

Alot of black people feel.... (extreme generilization, but anybody whose been to a cook out knows what im talking about)

that white people "Stole" James Brown and Michael Jackson...

(take that however you will)

Rick...

just wasn't pretty and wholesome enough for white america.

MJ was...

lets take Bobby Womack...

You cannot deny the talent Bobby had...

But wasn't really well known out of black circles...

If your black you know that if you got a date and you have some bobby womack on...

somebody's gonna get .... you know...

Have some Bobby Womack playing

and somebodies gonna get some... either you or your neighbors...

But thats a black thang...

breh

Like I said, those who know understand. Warrior, don't even bother.

Rick was an R&B superstar. Anyone who says different doesn't know what the hell they are talking about and is full of shit.

[Edited 11/7/10 8:09am]

EmbattledWarrior said:

Is it me or is there excessive talk about Rick on the org lately...

As it was explained before... was he extremely famous?

to white America? no

to Black America Yes

You have to understand the racial politics in music.

Alot of black people feel.... (extreme generilization, but anybody whose been to a cook out knows what im talking about)

that white people "Stole" James Brown and Michael Jackson...

(take that however you will)

Rick...

just wasn't pretty and wholesome enough for white america.

MJ was...

lets take Bobby Womack...

You cannot deny the talent Bobby had...

But wasn't really well known out of black circles...

If your black you know that if you got a date and you have some bobby womack on...

somebody's gonna get .... you know...

Have some Bobby Womack playing

and somebodies gonna get some... either you or your neighbors...

But thats a black thang...

breh

The thing is that today the line is drawn even further. Back then depsite the differences in Radio Play, you still could have mixes on the same stage, now you dont. Back then everyone was trying to be different, today everyone Black and white is trying to be the same? (if that makes sense). Someone said to me the other day, is it me, or does everyone you look at have the same tattoo, the same cell phone, the same dumb ass looking pants hanging off their asses, the same this and the same that.....what the hell happend? for a generation that calls itself the generation of "change" you sure as hell all look alike and are afraid of "differences".

To me differences are the best thing, but you cant what you had back then, everyone has to "crossover" dont ask me why, but they do, sad to say.

Yes, I think Rick was extremely famous in the '80s. He just didn't blow up around the world for two reasons, one was Motown didn't push his music as hard as they could've; and two, he was snorting cocaine and abusing drugs like they were going out of style. To me, there is NO question that he had the ability to be on the tier of Prince and MJ, NO QUESTION, he was mad talented, but I think his drug addiction robbed him of his ambition, and his music wasn't as dynamic as it had once been, especially after like '86.

I think that if you removed cocaine from the picture, and had he gotten better promo, he would've been huge worldwide.

mrpunkfunk said:

Yes, I think Rick was extremely famous in the '80s. He just didn't blow up around the world for two reasons, one was Motown didn't push his music as hard as they could've; and two, he was snorting cocaine and abusing drugs like they were going out of style. To me, there is NO question that he had the ability to be on the tier of Prince and MJ, NO QUESTION, he was mad talented, but I think his drug addiction robbed him of his ambition, and his music wasn't as dynamic as it had once been, especially after like '86.

I think that if you removed cocaine from the picture, and had he gotten better promo, he would've been huge worldwide.

That didn't stop Motley Crue, Elton John, Ozzy Osbourne, & many other acts from selling.

lastdecember said:

EmbattledWarrior said:

Is it me or is there excessive talk about Rick on the org lately...

As it was explained before... was he extremely famous?

to white America? no

to Black America Yes

You have to understand the racial politics in music.

Alot of black people feel.... (extreme generilization, but anybody whose been to a cook out knows what im talking about)

that white people "Stole" James Brown and Michael Jackson...

(take that however you will)

Rick...

just wasn't pretty and wholesome enough for white america.

MJ was...

lets take Bobby Womack...

You cannot deny the talent Bobby had...

But wasn't really well known out of black circles...

If your black you know that if you got a date and you have some bobby womack on...

somebody's gonna get .... you know...

Have some Bobby Womack playing

and somebodies gonna get some... either you or your neighbors...

But thats a black thang...

breh

The thing is that today the line is drawn even further. Back then depsite the differences in Radio Play, you still could have mixes on the same stage, now you dont. Back then everyone was trying to be different, today everyone Black and white is trying to be the same? (if that makes sense). Someone said to me the other day, is it me, or does everyone you look at have the same tattoo, the same cell phone, the same dumb ass looking pants hanging off their asses, the same this and the same that.....what the hell happend? for a generation that calls itself the generation of "change" you sure as hell all look alike and are afraid of "differences".

To me differences are the best thing, but you cant what you had back then, everyone has to "crossover" dont ask me why, but they do, sad to say.

Everything in excess is BAD...

and thats what the music industry does, any originality that happens IE crossovers, or new ventures in music.

They monopolize it and try to turn it into a profit by saturating the system...

Happens all the time...

something original comes...

a thousand busters, try to copy the sound and force everyone to comply with it.

kjw709 said:

How famous and well known was Rick James in the 80s . I know he wasn 't as big ( famous ) as Michael Jackson but was heas famous as James Brown or Prince or anyone like that ?

No offense, but this question is not relevant to Rick James. In many ways, Rick had no

peers; just as Michael, James and Prince had/have no peers, in many ways. They are all from certain overlapping musical, sociological and spiritual schools, but distinguish themselves through their original works.

He was born James Ambrose Johnson, in Buffalo New York, on February 1st, 1948. But the world

would come to know him as Rick James. And his musical genius and slick sense of style would

one day define a quantum moment in our culture. He was a brilliant composer, a gifted musician, a mystical man, and a true spokesman for my generation and generations to come.

His soul sang out songs of passion and peace, joy and pain, and a deep and profound spirituality. He poured his life into a cup and he shared it with the whole world. What a blessing from God it was for me to be able to drink from this cup whenever I was thirsty.

There was so much more to him than "Superfreak." Just listen to the magic of "Ghetto Life," and feel the pulse of the streets you grew up on. Dance to the infectious rhythm of "Cold Blooded," & realize how ahead of his time, and just how cold blooded, he really was.

When he "Busted Out on the Funk" didn't "You and I" bust out with him? And didn't he blow your

mind "69 Times?"

You burned with a "Fire and Desire" until then you had never known. Can't you still remember whose arms you were in, and why you won't forget your one true love?

Elongated back beats still resound.

The King ain't dead, long live the King.

Punk Funkin, machismo, freestyle, overwhelming - hips and pelvis gyrating magnanimously.

A true Icon. Oh they laid the bottom down. I tell you they was funkin' for Mama Africa!

My Love, you spun the world on your axis for a hell of a time.

"And the prophet said "I think I wanna talk, pass the joint."

Whoppin' down eight inches to a yard the rock was hard.

Drums and percussion locked tight - like excellent sex. I mean it was a wall of sound.

The young G's is still tryin' to recreate it. Kickin ass and takin' names.

One sistah sang, "Stone City Band won't you Funk us on up, won't you funk us on down."

Stone City Band let the show begin, because we love your sound.

-Lady Tee

As others have stated,Rick was HUGE in the funk/R&B world.No,he didn't really "crossover" the way Prince and MJ did,but he was a major superstar with R&B audiences.'Street Songs' was the hottest R&B album of 1981.As Vainandy pointed out,sometimes it's okay not to crossover.P-Funk were never huge with 'pop' audiences,either.

the street song album made him a super star around the world. black, white, asian, latino, have purchase this album and went to the concert that supported this album. rick had promoters calling him from europe, japan, austallia to come and do a shows for them for big money. i worked on all of rick james shows and i can attest to all of you that in 1981 he was a huge star.

mrpunkfunk said:

Yes, I think Rick was extremely famous in the '80s. He just didn't blow up around the world for two reasons, one was Motown didn't push his music as hard as they could've; and two, he was snorting cocaine and abusing drugs like they were going out of style. To me, there is NO question that he had the ability to be on the tier of Prince and MJ, NO QUESTION, he was mad talented, but I think his drug addiction robbed him of his ambition, and his music wasn't as dynamic as it had once been, especially after like '86.

I think that if you removed cocaine from the picture, and had he gotten better promo, he would've been huge worldwide.

Bingo.

From the countless interviews Mr. Rick James gave, he lived his life personally and professionally on his terms. Notwithstanding the conviction for rape, Mr. James was an unapologetic drug user. James appeared to relish the mantra, sex, drug, and rock and roll! Even so, it's important not to get caught up in "fame" being the ultimate baromter of importance, a judge of talent, or someones body of work. It takes all kinds.

It's all relative. . . . (IMHO)

Was Rick James extremely famous? In my world, yes.

purplethunder3121 said:

All I can tell you is that I was around in the early 80s and I listened to radio all the time. Not only was Rick playing hits like "Super Freak" on the R&B stations but also on Top 40 radio stations, on constant play. I heard him all the time and I am very familiar with his most popular songs (although in more recent years I investigated his not so popular songs). He was also in videos on various TV shows all the time. So, Rick had plenty of exposure in the 1980s in the U.S. and he was "very popular" or "famous" in all kinds of genres...not only R&B radio stations. I hope that settles the controversy. Radio and television (with the exception of MTV) were not so stratified in those days, like they are now.

yeah, i was young then ( ), but my impression was that 'super freak' was the first big crossover hit of rick's. we had just moved to san fran and that song was all over the radio - r&b and pop. i do believe that he performed it on solid gold - that's how popular it was! that's why mc hammer was able to get over with 'can't touch this' b/c everyone knew 'super freak'.

a few years earlier, my impression is that rick was mostly an r&b treasure, much like his protege, tina marie. also in '81, she crossed over with her pop hit - either 'square biz' or 'it must be magic' - but then few years later she had an even bigger hit with 'lover girl'. still, she and rick stayed true to their r&b roots, which doesn't get you to that 'super famous' status a la mj or prince.

kibbles said:

purplethunder3121 said:

All I can tell you is that I was around in the early 80s and I listened to radio all the time. Not only was Rick playing hits like "Super Freak" on the R&B stations but also on Top 40 radio stations, on constant play. I heard him all the time and I am very familiar with his most popular songs (although in more recent years I investigated his not so popular songs). He was also in videos on various TV shows all the time. So, Rick had plenty of exposure in the 1980s in the U.S. and he was "very popular" or "famous" in all kinds of genres...not only R&B radio stations. I hope that settles the controversy. Radio and television (with the exception of MTV) were not so stratified in those days, like they are now.

yeah, i was young then ( ), but my impression was that 'super freak' was the first big crossover hit of rick's. we had just moved to san fran and that song was all over the radio - r&b and pop. i do believe that he performed it on solid gold - that's how popular it was! that's why mc hammer was able to get over with 'can't touch this' b/c everyone knew 'super freak'.

a few years earlier, my impression is that rick was mostly an r&b treasure, much like his protege, tina marie. also in '81, she crossed over with her pop hit - either 'square biz' or 'it must be magic' - but then few years later she had an even bigger hit with 'lover girl'. still, she and rick stayed true to their r&b roots, which doesn't get you to that 'super famous' status a la mj or prince.

Like it's been said, there was a difference with how someone became famous in 1981 then 2010. If you perform on "American Bandstand" and "Solid Gold", programs that usually catered more to pop performers than R&B performers and Rick James was on both of these constantly. Plus he was definitely played on pop radio during his heyday (1978-1983). Motown just didn't push him further as was already pointed out.

Timmy84 said:

kibbles said:

yeah, i was young then ( ), but my impression was that 'super freak' was the first big crossover hit of rick's. we had just moved to san fran and that song was all over the radio - r&b and pop. i do believe that he performed it on solid gold - that's how popular it was! that's why mc hammer was able to get over with 'can't touch this' b/c everyone knew 'super freak'.

a few years earlier, my impression is that rick was mostly an r&b treasure, much like his protege, tina marie. also in '81, she crossed over with her pop hit - either 'square biz' or 'it must be magic' - but then few years later she had an even bigger hit with 'lover girl'. still, she and rick stayed true to their r&b roots, which doesn't get you to that 'super famous' status a la mj or prince.

Like it's been said, there was a difference with how someone became famous in 1981 then 2010. If you perform on "American Bandstand" and "Solid Gold", programs that usually catered more to pop performers than R&B performers and Rick James was on both of these constantly. Plus he was definitely played on pop radio during his heyday (1978-1983). Motown just didn't push him further as was already pointed out.

yeah, i believe the question was, was rick james popular in the 80s, not the difference between fame then versus now and how to achieve it so your point is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT TO WHAT I POSTED.

like most everyone who was there at the time (i.e., soulalive, vainandy and yours truly) has answered, yes, rick was huge on the r&b tip, not so much on the pop tip, unless you include 'super freak'. so what the hell are you talking about? i really don't understand your point as it pertains to my post.

i already know that solid gold was a pop venue - that's why i mentioned it in relation to rick's crossover hit. (are you having a problem with reading comprehension today?) motown could have pushed and pushed and pushed, but rick was a hardcore r&b artist, and that's where he was staying 'cause he wasn't about trying to crossover. which is more than fine with me, who has mary jane on her shuffle right now.

kibbles said:

Timmy84 said:

Like it's been said, there was a difference with how someone became famous in 1981 then 2010. If you perform on "American Bandstand" and "Solid Gold", programs that usually catered more to pop performers than R&B performers and Rick James was on both of these constantly. Plus he was definitely played on pop radio during his heyday (1978-1983). Motown just didn't push him further as was already pointed out.

yeah, i believe the question was, was rick james popular in the 80s, not the difference between fame then versus now and how to achieve it so your point is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT TO WHAT I POSTED.

like most everyone who was there at the time (i.e., soulalive, vainandy and yours truly) has answered, yes, rick was huge on the r&b tip, not so much on the pop tip, unless you include 'super freak'. so what the hell are you talking about? i really don't understand your point as it pertains to my post.

i already know that solid gold was a pop venue - that's why i mentioned it in relation to rick's crossover hit. (are you having a problem with reading comprehension today?) motown could have pushed and pushed and pushed, but rick was a hardcore r&b artist, and that's where he was staying 'cause he wasn't about trying to crossover. which is more than fine with me, who has mary jane on her shuffle right now.

It wasn't to you. It was to PURPLETHUNDER. Got damn.

[Edited 11/8/10 13:49pm]