This is an example of Sarah Vaughan working her famous M.O. - taking a song and slowing it down to reveal all its details. I also think she did that with songs she really loved to sing - you could tell!

(Full disclosure: Sassy is one of my favorite artists and this is one of my favorite performances of hers.)

Actually, Lady Gaga does a bit of the same thing; her live performances of those songs definitely say something that the studio versions do not. Many singers in pop music (even some pretty good ones, like Beyoncé) can't do that because they can't improvise. There's a clip of Rihanna trying to sing Mariah Carey's Hero, trying to match every nuance and every inflection of Mariah's to the letter. I also think shows like American Idol and X Factor and singing competitions in general contribute to these restricted vocal interpretations and encourage contestants to try to sing carbon copies - which never, in my opinion, actually adds anything to the song.

EmbattledWarrior said:

Curtwill1975 said:

Lyrics aren't really that important. In fact, I think lyrics get overstated when it comes to determining what makes great music or not. I mean, it's music, not a thesis or essay. Hopefully the OP didn't intent for this to happen but people are using this thread to hate on Today's music AS USUAL.

You know what sad about this board? The fact that because YOU, personally, don't like their music you think you're the authority on who has talent and who is inspiring. For example, GAGA went to a Performing Arts School. Gaga, probably understands music theory better than MAJORITY OF THE PEOPLE ON THIS BOARD. But because some of you are appaulled at her image, you clown her talent not realizing that she might emphasize the visuals but the girl does have talent and understands music. And she does a nice job in her lane.

Part of the reason why Gaga does dance music is because her former manager, Rob Fusari, probably told her that this was how she would get her foot in the door. And that's fine. That's how the industry works. Like it or not. Do I like all of today's music? No. But I don't blame the artists, at all. Not really. It's a business and the music that is being made today, isn't always made for my generation and older.

So what? Don't mean I can't respect it and even appreciate it. I notice that someone you HATE hip hop. Well, some of the best music comes from that period(like it or not). Even today's music, I am talking mainstream stuff, have some really good stuff out there but I am not here to convince you. I am just saying that it is PATHETIC that ALL THE TIME, you complain about music rather than just ENJOY IT. Like some of you are so miserable in here sometimes. It's not the end of the world that Gaga, Beyoncé, and Etc are apart of today's music and that they have fans that love their music. Life goes on.

i don't normally like to shit on peoples music.

but you gaga is crap,

and deep down in her heart of hearts she knows it.

They all do... and it secretly kills them.

And your right this board is judgmental, and it damn right should be.

I'm not the be all anding judgement on music.

but I know the industry and I know what I like.

and I also know that humans are sheep, and will bob to anything thats spinning on their radio if its played enough.

I know that this crumbling industry which is feeding off of the beyonce's and gaga's is dying.

and has been for a decade.

but why am I even talking to you

the first statement in your rant about lyrics, disqualifies you from ever being relevant.

So forget what I just said, wasted words

You say I am not relevant but you took the time to post 4 paragraphs in response to my post. You could have ignored my "rant" but you responded to someone who you say is irrevelant. Okay.

Like what you like....dislike what you want but attacking those who like what they like is lame. Just because the industry isn't what YOU want it to be don't mean it is crumbling, dude. Deal with that, and your life will be better for it.

BklynBabe said:

The best songs to me are that perfect blend of beats and vocals. Beyonce does have great vocals....but her songs overall lack depth. GaGa also has great talent, but it's overshadowed by the gimmicks. I know a song is good if I hear the acapella or the instrumental and I'm still impressed.

Good points and that's what I mean by lyrics being overstated as the standard or measure of being a great song. That's what makes JAZZ so great. An instrumental can allow you to feel the interpretation without the words. It's like looking at a picture, you know? Again, great post.

Well they are important but you also have to be able to get what your singing across, and sometimes that doesnt mean you have the best voice. People like Michael Hutchence Richard Marx Billy Joel Elton i think are great artists and get a song across with ease, but were told they didnt have good voices, i think its a wide open field, people tend to be more critical of females than male, every female to people has to be Aretha Franklin or they suck, were as with Male Vocals i see alot of favoritism for males that really dont have a good voice overall, or just are status quo with their ability to get a song across. I mean Bob Dylan has bad vocals, but is one of the best writers ever, John Mellencamp and Harry Chapin to me are the best translaters of story songs and neither is regarded as having good voices.

Depends on the kind of music..

MidniteMagnet said:

It seems like today people (top 40 fans) aren't into great singers. They're into beats, image, etc. So how important are the vocals? Can you overlook vocals if the rest of the song is great?

For me, the vocals are the most important thing. I can overlook shit lyrics and corny production if the vocal takes it to another level (I'm talking about you Beyonce!). I just appreciate the artistry of singing more than the artistry of music in general.

Some of my favorite singers don't have the best voices but they have something unique/interesting about them (Madonna, Kelis, Janet). But there are other singers (Chaka Khan, Teena Marie, Niecy) that I would buy anything they release because I like their voices that much.

To us 35 and above, vocals are very important. The kids are more into beats and I truly don't hear any really good singers out there. Most of these singers today are burned out after 3 albums because they don't have anything to rely on. I like Lady Gaga and think she has a decent singing voice, but I tell ya what...if she doesn't change it up a la Madonna...she'll be burned out too.

Vocals are important, but good music is too. They both have to compliment each other. Sometimes amazing vocals and turn mediocre instrumentation into a hit and vice versa. But for me being old school...you betta be able to sing for me to listen to you.

NDRU said:

UptownCitizen said:

Depends on the song ...

exactly, if you're the Beatles, vocals are the most important thing, if you are making rave music, the vocals are maybe not as important

eH; music is much more important than the vocals, why so? It's an older craft than the vocals to begin with, and also good music will tell a story of its own, so that the vocals become unnecessary. I can listen to most Prince songs even without his vocals on, cause his music is badass!!!

lastdecember said:

Well they are important but you also have to be able to get what your singing across, and sometimes that doesnt mean you have the best voice. People like Michael Hutchence Richard Marx Billy Joel Elton i think are great artists and get a song across with ease, but were told they didnt have good voices, i think its a wide open field, people tend to be more critical of females than male, every female to people has to be Aretha Franklin or they suck, were as with Male Vocals i see alot of favoritism for males that really dont have a good voice overall, or just are status quo with their ability to get a song across. I mean Bob Dylan has bad vocals, but is one of the best writers ever, John Mellencamp and Harry Chapin to me are the best translaters of story songs and neither is regarded as having good voices.

Yeah, I agree with this in that, a voice should never really be judged by whether it's a stock standard generic match of what people consider "good". Because "good" usually means "belt" or "overly strong", no one ever considers "emotion" or "interpretation" when listening for a "good" voice.

To me, vocals are art, too. Completely subjective - what some people find incredible, others can't stand and don't understand for the life of them what the fuss is about. I think it's impossible to define what is a "good" vocal because "good" could entail so many different things. What one person looks for, another doesn't notice or care about.

As for pop music, vocals need to be interesting, particularly if the beat is going to be generic and mainly electronic. They need to stand out, you need to hear the voice on the radio and know exactly who it is straight away. That's why Rihanna and Britney remain successful despite their weak voices. People are familiar with the way they sound and they get the good songs (Spare me the "Uhh it's because they're hot" talk - your hotness level doesn't matter on the radio). Their voices easily merge with the music rather than overpowering and ultimately clashing with it like Xtina's did when she tried to go electro-pop.

It's interesting to note that Gaga didn't get famous until she drastically changed the way she sung her songs (as well as her image). When she was up and coming, she was quite hoarse and all about belting. When she switched to "Gaga", she varied her vocals drastically for each track. You've got the basic sing-song talking of Just Dance, the monotone of Pokerface and the higher falsetto of Paparazzi's chorus. The production of The Fame era didn't strike me as particularly special or unique at all, I think it was the strong vocals working perfectly WITH the production that made her stand out, among other things.

For me, vocals are usually secondary to the music. I can easily tolerate a less than pleasing voice if a song is musically exceptional. Only in rare instances is a singer so bad that it completely ruins a song for me.

Many of my favorite artists aren't great singers, and for what they lack in technical ability, they make up for in soulfulness, believability, or uniqueness, which are more important qualities to me. I think George Michael is the only artist for which his voice is the driving force behind my fanhood. He could sing anything and I would probably like it. For other artists I'm a fan of, it's a combination of music and vocals, or occasionally the music alone.

Curtwill1975 said:

EmbattledWarrior said:

i don't normally like to shit on peoples music.

but you gaga is crap,

and deep down in her heart of hearts she knows it.

They all do... and it secretly kills them.

And your right this board is judgmental, and it damn right should be.

I'm not the be all anding judgement on music.

but I know the industry and I know what I like.

and I also know that humans are sheep, and will bob to anything thats spinning on their radio if its played enough.

I know that this crumbling industry which is feeding off of the beyonce's and gaga's is dying.

and has been for a decade.

but why am I even talking to you

the first statement in your rant about lyrics, disqualifies you from ever being relevant.

So forget what I just said, wasted words

You say I am not relevant but you took the time to post 4 paragraphs in response to my post. You could have ignored my "rant" but you responded to someone who you say is irrevelant. Okay.

Like what you like....dislike what you want but attacking those who like what they like is lame. Just because the industry isn't what YOU want it to be don't mean it is crumbling, dude. Deal with that, and your life will be better for it.

Have you taken a good look outside of the vacuous pop world into reality?

I could careless if the industry is not to the liking, it never has been, it's always promoted crap.

75% of pop music is crap, has been since the 60's.

What's happening is now different. And I personally love it. I suppose cause I'm a sick sadistic tormented artist myself with socialistic underpinnings. I love that the establishment is burning in flames.

You're not in the industry. But i'll give you the scoop.

Every day Major labels are cracking down and consolidating because they don't have enough capital to run their day to day operations like A&R.

Recording studios are going out of business.

Top Selling Itunes Artist (I.E. Gaga) aren't making the money people think they are.

because itunes (wink wink) shits on the artist.

Artist are getting fed up and leaving their labels.

Labels are getting fed up and dropping their talent.

C.D.'s are becoming a dinosaurs

digi downloads aren't making enough money

Billboard is becoming irrelevant

The fact that its been over 10 years since Napster and the industry still hasn't recovered is astonishing.

But wait what else is happening?

ndie artist are on the rise. More albums are becoming self released. And the middle man (record company) between the artist and their fans is slowly burning into oblivion.

Resurgence of LP's.

While artist don't make money from their music anymore, the astonishing support from fans through tours and merchandise, has not really affected the capital acquired by the musician.

In fact in this day and age, Artist are rewarded by their fans for staying artistic by actually buying music, for which the artist can fully recoup with no middle man.

While the superstar is dead, the artist is alive

You kidding me? I love this. Finally artistry is no longer taking the backseat to business.

Flame On.

OzlemUcucu said:

NDRU said:

exactly, if you're the Beatles, vocals are the most important thing, if you are making rave music, the vocals are maybe not as important

eH; music is much more important than the vocals, why so? It's an older craft than the vocals to begin with, and also good music will tell a story of its own, so that the vocals become unnecessary. I can listen to most Prince songs even without his vocals on, cause his music is badass!!!

you never post anymore and this is as good as you can do?