bboy87 said:

ViintageJunkiie said:

WHY does Q-Tip have the damn multi-tracks in the first place?! .. I know MJ hand delivered the the original masters of PYT to Monica and Darkchild when they did Monica's track "All Eyez On Me". I flipped out when I heard all those extra vocal adlibs and runs MJ did in her song.

"GET IT OOON!"

Somebody gave him copies

Michael was probably the connection...

Timmy84 said:

@LBC and bboy87, I bet y'all probably didn't know this (or did) but "The Young Folks" was actually a cover of the version made by Diana Ross and the Supremes with the lyrics altered to fit the brothers. Oddly enough Jackie, Tito, Jermaine and Marlon sound like the Andantes while MJ mixes the Diana Ross coos with his vocals.

Interesting protest song done by the J5 lol

Swa said:

Reel said:

I just re-read that interview with Quincy and what he said about Michael. I agree with Quincy 100%. Now I do believe that MJ had vitiligo but i's only because Dr. Deepak Chopra confirmed that (who also appears not to be a favorite around here anymore). But all the other stuff that MJ did to his appearance....and the situaiton with the kids - I think Quincy hit it right on the nose.

Just to clarify something - sadly what should make you believe MJ had vitiligo isn't if Deepak or Quincy said so, but unfortunately that it was confirmed by the coroner at Michael's autopsy.

For me, it was only in his death that people finally accepted he suffered from the disease, and how painful it must have been to have disclosed such a thing over 19 years ago and to have to endure ridicule for all that period as well.

Why should people have believed that MJ had vitiligo.....because he said so? He lied so many times about his surgeries. He said on Oprah that he only had "2" things done. When clearly that was a big fat lie. So if he lied about that....people will find it difficult to believe that he is credible when he made other claims. Doesn't give people the right to call him "wacko jacko" in the press, but it does give people the right to question his honesty. Who believes everything that someone they don't know tells them?

Also, I saw the Deepak interview prior to the coroner's report being released. And if it was released prior to the interview ....I had not seen heard about it prior to that. In addition the report that I saw didn't mention that he had Vitiligo the one I saw said that he had a black tatoo over the top of his head....he had active sperm production, he has cuts on his head (possibly due to surgery), he had evidence of having knee surgery. So I'm not saying that there was not more details released on the report, I just have not seen them.

But no....i did NOT believe MJ when he initially made the claim to have the disease. And neither did a lot of people. Once you show yourself to be a liar, it makes it hard for "thinking" people to believe everything that you say.

Reel said:

Swa said:

Just to clarify something - sadly what should make you believe MJ had vitiligo isn't if Deepak or Quincy said so, but unfortunately that it was confirmed by the coroner at Michael's autopsy.

For me, it was only in his death that people finally accepted he suffered from the disease, and how painful it must have been to have disclosed such a thing over 19 years ago and to have to endure ridicule for all that period as well.

Why should people have believed that MJ had vitiligo.....because he said so? He lied so many times about his surgeries. He said on Oprah that he only had "2" things done. When clearly that was a big fat lie. So if he lied about that....people will find it difficult to believe that he is credible when he made other claims. Doesn't give people the right to call him "wacko jacko" in the press, but it does give people the right to question his honesty. Who believes everything that someone they don't know tells them?

Also, I saw the Deepak interview prior to the coroner's report being released. And if it was released prior to the interview ....I had not seen heard about it prior to that. In addition the report that I saw didn't mention that he had Vitiligo the one I saw said that he had a black tatoo over the top of his head....he had active sperm production, he has cuts on his head (possibly due to surgery), he had evidence of having knee surgery. So I'm not saying that there was not more details released on the report, I just have not seen them.

But no....i did NOT believe MJ when he initially made the claim to have the disease. And neither did a lot of people. Once you show yourself to be a liar, it makes it hard for "thinking" people to believe everything that you say.

"Thriller" demos of "The Girl is Mine", "Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'", "Billie Jean" and "P.Y.T." cut at Hayvenhurst:

Billie Jean:

(The entire song was there but some lyrics changed and of course the musicians that were part of Q's camp helped to polish it)

The Girl is Mine (the demo which Will.I.Am basically "remixed"):

Wanna Be Startin' Somethin':

PYT:

(This one was changed because Quincy wanted something different. James Ingram practically rewrote the song. Quincy claims that he came up with the title Pretty Young Thing because he saw that that was the name of the lingerie his then-wife Peggy Lipton brought home from the store or whatever lol but the demo featured on "The Ultimate Collection" indicates someone must've been LYING. because the title was obviously there.)

But as was most of his post-Motown solo work, the genesis of how the songs came together mostly came from MJ with the exception of PYT obviously.

I also think Michael possibly had thoughts of where the album should go since, we have to remember, the original title of what became "Thriller" was "Starlight". Michael reportedly was upset after hearing playback of this and wanted something different so Rod possibly suggested to him what he wanted and he probably said "I want a horror song" or something like that and that's when Rod came up with "Thriller".

[Edited 7/13/10 12:39pm]

babybugz said:

This thread went downhill.

And I'm bringing it back.

Hmm, the strings in the "third" Billie Jean demo are already in this one.

Seem like it was just a polish that Quincy, MJ and Bruce Swedien did when Mike recorded the song in the studio.

You could tell how much work came into "Billie Jean". He first used Randy and Janet to help him with sounds, then the second version he had some more words but was still mumbling them, then the third version things started to come together.

I think when he entered the studio to do "Billie Jean", he did a one-take of this and the song was initially recorded with the same lengthy vamp as the demos suggested. But I think Q, Mike and Bruce figured as a compromise NOT to include it. I can kinda see why it wasn't included.

I can only imagine the fights Michael and Quincy had over this song too.

[Edited 7/13/10 12:27pm]

babybugz said:

Timmy84 said:

@LBC and bboy87, I bet y'all probably didn't know this (or did) but "The Young Folks" was actually a cover of the version made by Diana Ross and the Supremes with the lyrics altered to fit the brothers. Oddly enough Jackie, Tito, Jermaine and Marlon sound like the Andantes while MJ mixes the Diana Ross coos with his vocals.

Interesting protest song done by the J5 lol

Um I knew that don't feel special .. *waves* Hi timmy

lol hey.

Timmy84 said:

babybugz said:

This thread went downhill.

And I'm bringing it back.

Hmm, Sony muted "Beat It" demos lol

@babybugz yep

I don't get why he sung the first line LIVE, then started lipsyncing. His voice was on point that first line

[Edited 7/13/10 13:49pm]

Reel said:

Swa said:

Just to clarify something - sadly what should make you believe MJ had vitiligo isn't if Deepak or Quincy said so, but unfortunately that it was confirmed by the coroner at Michael's autopsy.

For me, it was only in his death that people finally accepted he suffered from the disease, and how painful it must have been to have disclosed such a thing over 19 years ago and to have to endure ridicule for all that period as well.

Why should people have believed that MJ had vitiligo.....because he said so? He lied so many times about his surgeries. He said on Oprah that he only had "2" things done. When clearly that was a big fat lie. So if he lied about that....people will find it difficult to believe that he is credible when he made other claims. Doesn't give people the right to call him "wacko jacko" in the press, but it does give people the right to question his honesty. Who believes everything that someone they don't know tells them?

Also, I saw the Deepak interview prior to the coroner's report being released. And if it was released prior to the interview ....I had not seen heard about it prior to that. In addition the report that I saw didn't mention that he had Vitiligo the one I saw said that he had a black tatoo over the top of his head....he had active sperm production, he has cuts on his head (possibly due to surgery), he had evidence of having knee surgery. So I'm not saying that there was not more details released on the report, I just have not seen them.

But no....i did NOT believe MJ when he initially made the claim to have the disease. And neither did a lot of people. Once you show yourself to be a liar, it makes it hard for "thinking" people to believe everything that you say.

That was probably one of the fake ones that the media was reporting on.

The real one said he had vitiligo, inflammed lungs, short "tightly curled hair" and was typical health of a 50 year old man

He didn't tell Oprah he had 2 done, he told her if you count the things he's had work on on 1 hand It was the little gnome who he told that to

Timmy84 said:

Hmm, Sony muted "Beat It" demos lol

@babybugz yep

They've removed a couple of songs off Youtube. They also took off Escape

ViintageJunkiie said:

I don't get why he sung the first line LIVE, then started lipsyncing. His voice was on point that first line

[Edited 7/13/10 13:49pm]

I never understood it either, but what I found interesting is that even though the tape was still playing, he was still actually singing

Some guy who mixed the first 2 UK shows of the Bad tour said while Michael lipsynched Smooth Criminal, part of The Way You Make Me Feel, Bad, and Man In The Mirror, he was still singing which is why when the estate releases the Bad Tour on DVD, they could use the tapes with his live voice singing those particular tracks instead of the synch tracks

bboy87 said:

ViintageJunkiie said:

I don't get why he sung the first line LIVE, then started lipsyncing. His voice was on point that first line

[Edited 7/13/10 13:49pm]

I never understood it either, but what I found interesting is that even though the tape was still playing, he was still actually singing

Some guy who mixed the first 2 UK shows of the Bad tour said while Michael lipsynched Smooth Criminal, part of The Way You Make Me Feel, Bad, and Man In The Mirror, he was still singing which is why when the estate releases the Bad Tour on DVD, they could use the tapes with his live voice singing those particular tracks instead of the synch tracks

Is there any word on a OFFICIAL BAD TOUR release? I need it!

ViintageJunkiie said:

bboy87 said:

I never understood it either, but what I found interesting is that even though the tape was still playing, he was still actually singing

Some guy who mixed the first 2 UK shows of the Bad tour said while Michael lipsynched Smooth Criminal, part of The Way You Make Me Feel, Bad, and Man In The Mirror, he was still singing which is why when the estate releases the Bad Tour on DVD, they could use the tapes with his live voice singing those particular tracks instead of the synch tracks

Is there any word on a OFFICIAL BAD TOUR release? I need it!

If I believe what some people are saying, we'll get one along with a deluxe edition of the album in 2012

bboy87 said:

Timmy84 said:

Hmm, Sony muted "Beat It" demos lol

@babybugz yep

They've removed a couple of songs off Youtube. They also took off Escape

I see...

http://www.radionomy.com/en/radio/michael-jackson-radio

Reel said:

Swa said:

Just to clarify something - sadly what should make you believe MJ had vitiligo isn't if Deepak or Quincy said so, but unfortunately that it was confirmed by the coroner at Michael's autopsy.

For me, it was only in his death that people finally accepted he suffered from the disease, and how painful it must have been to have disclosed such a thing over 19 years ago and to have to endure ridicule for all that period as well.

Why should people have believed that MJ had vitiligo.....because he said so? He lied so many times about his surgeries. He said on Oprah that he only had "2" things done. When clearly that was a big fat lie. So if he lied about that....people will find it difficult to believe that he is credible when he made other claims. Doesn't give people the right to call him "wacko jacko" in the press, but it does give people the right to question his honesty. Who believes everything that someone they don't know tells them?

Also, I saw the Deepak interview prior to the coroner's report being released. And if it was released prior to the interview ....I had not seen heard about it prior to that. In addition the report that I saw didn't mention that he had Vitiligo the one I saw said that he had a black tatoo over the top of his head....he had active sperm production, he has cuts on his head (possibly due to surgery), he had evidence of having knee surgery. So I'm not saying that there was not more details released on the report, I just have not seen them.

But no....i did NOT believe MJ when he initially made the claim to have the disease. And neither did a lot of people. Once you show yourself to be a liar, it makes it hard for "thinking" people to believe everything that you say.

Of course we couldn't believe michael about all the surgeries, I still don't know about the extent of the vitiligo, whether it was that extreme or just a built in excuse to whiten his skin. Either way i still love Mike. I understand the loathing, it's not fair for us out here to berate him for something we all have I don't think. I learned something interesting about Elvis recently which may be interesting here, he had several plastic surgeries too and he was already one of the most gorgeous men to walk the planet. Just a way of life in hollywood.

Reel said:

Swa said:

Just to clarify something - sadly what should make you believe MJ had vitiligo isn't if Deepak or Quincy said so, but unfortunately that it was confirmed by the coroner at Michael's autopsy.

For me, it was only in his death that people finally accepted he suffered from the disease, and how painful it must have been to have disclosed such a thing over 19 years ago and to have to endure ridicule for all that period as well.

Why should people have believed that MJ had vitiligo.....because he said so? He lied so many times about his surgeries. He said on Oprah that he only had "2" things done. When clearly that was a big fat lie. So if he lied about that....people will find it difficult to believe that he is credible when he made other claims. Doesn't give people the right to call him "wacko jacko" in the press, but it does give people the right to question his honesty. Who believes everything that someone they don't know tells them?

Also, I saw the Deepak interview prior to the coroner's report being released. And if it was released prior to the interview ....I had not seen heard about it prior to that. In addition the report that I saw didn't mention that he had Vitiligo the one I saw said that he had a black tatoo over the top of his head....he had active sperm production, he has cuts on his head (possibly due to surgery), he had evidence of having knee surgery. So I'm not saying that there was not more details released on the report, I just have not seen them.

But no....i did NOT believe MJ when he initially made the claim to have the disease. And neither did a lot of people. Once you show yourself to be a liar, it makes it hard for "thinking" people to believe everything that you say.

In order to believe (or even understand) that he had vitiligo, you're going to have to dig pictures and do some research. I was also a speculator. Throughout the 80s (from Thriller to Bad), you can see pictures where he used brown makeup to cover up the white patches. Throughout the 90s, he used lighter makeup to cover up the brown blotches. It's not difficult to believe because I knew someone else with vitiligo (and with time it grew extensive) and that individual had a whole supply of Dermablend foundation. Anyway, that's what I concluded in the late 90s. And then in 2003, Karen Faye explained how he coped with the vitiligo and it confirmed my assumptions of his use with pancake makeup.

Quincy never believed he had vitiligo. Unless, he gave a new interview. Funny, considering the man has half-white kids of his own. Even without the autopsy report, vitiligo always seemed like plausible explanation than "white bleaching" That's seriously bogus.

Timmy84 said:

And Timmy, I appreciate you trying to bring this thread away from the irrational thinking and towards what counts.

MY TURN!

Reel said:

Swa said:

Just to clarify something - sadly what should make you believe MJ had vitiligo isn't if Deepak or Quincy said so, but unfortunately that it was confirmed by the coroner at Michael's autopsy.

For me, it was only in his death that people finally accepted he suffered from the disease, and how painful it must have been to have disclosed such a thing over 19 years ago and to have to endure ridicule for all that period as well.

Why should people have believed that MJ had vitiligo.....because he said so? He lied so many times about his surgeries. He said on Oprah that he only had "2" things done. When clearly that was a big fat lie. So if he lied about that....people will find it difficult to believe that he is credible when he made other claims. Doesn't give people the right to call him "wacko jacko" in the press, but it does give people the right to question his honesty. Who believes everything that someone they don't know tells them?

Also, I saw the Deepak interview prior to the coroner's report being released. And if it was released prior to the interview ....I had not seen heard about it prior to that. In addition the report that I saw didn't mention that he had Vitiligo the one I saw said that he had a black tatoo over the top of his head....he had active sperm production, he has cuts on his head (possibly due to surgery), he had evidence of having knee surgery. So I'm not saying that there was not more details released on the report, I just have not seen them.

But no....i did NOT believe MJ when he initially made the claim to have the disease. And neither did a lot of people. Once you show yourself to be a liar, it makes it hard for "thinking" people to believe everything that you say.

Common sense should have told you there is no way to bleach your skin that white.

now please shut the fuck up. You are like a broken record.

[Edited 7/13/10 20:45pm]