Timmy84 said:

Back to why we are here.. thank you Timmy

Timmy84 said:

And like Dag said the last thing I was thinking is that Mike was God. Mike would've told you he fucked up every now and then just not in the way some here think he would. Just because we choose to get pass all that personal drama doesn't mean our heads were in the sand. Matter of fact, we've had discussions about what he "should've done with his life" and it got to the point where I found myself judging him. I stop doing that prior to his death when he was getting ready for the tour. I don't know what trying to go back and forth about the guy's problems is gonna do in some of y'all trying to solve why Michael Jackson became who he became. Plus the more this goes on, the more trolls come in here to interrupt anything. But if you guys wanna turn this thread into a civil war, go on, just don't include me and some other folks in it who were tired of the bullshit long time ago.

Long live MJ. I'm out.

Some people thing we are stupid. I thing we know about discernment.

Thanks Timmy.

ViintageJunkiie said:

Reel said:

I noticed the dirty jacket...but I just now honed in on that shirt.

That's all of MJ's sweat from 1986...

86' MJ sweat. I'm surprised Sony hasn't tried to bottle,and sell it.

I'm with ViintageJunkiie, I would still put it on!

[Edited 7/12/10 9:07am]

mimi07 said:

Michael's vocal coach

[Edited 7/11/10 22:17pm]

I don't care wtf anyone says... The people who worked closely with Michael know who he was.. And, I can't say that I have ever heard a bad thing from any of them.

This was nice! Thanks Mimi

KEEPBUSTIN said:

As a prince fan i get really offended when people compare MJ to Prince, i mean how can you. MJ was a wiered dancer who couldnt play any instruments or write his own songs. He was puppet and Quincy Jones was his master. I know this isnt an official P site (Thank God for that) but serious Why the fark do we even have an MJ thread????????????????????????. I get the whole freedom of speach thing but do you think MJ sites have a Prince thread?????????

Get serious! The majority of us here are also Prince likers.

Even Prince paid his respects to Michael..

Timmy84 said:

Whoa.. look at those eyes....

EmeraldSkies said:

Timmy84 said:

Whoa.. look at those eyes....

They are so deep and always revealed how he felt. Just look at them. They are soooooooooooo sad.

dag said:

mimi07 said:

The young folks isn't bad but i skip this song too.

i like wings of my love, i didn't pay attention to that song until recently

dapper dan is fun but it's a bit cheesy and like you i'd take call on me any day over this

Heaven knows i love you is a gem and you are wrong for that lol

The girl is mine...i have honesty only listen to that entire song a couple times in my life because it's too cheesy for me lol

i don't like heal the world unless he perform it, i usually skip this song

i think the lost children is ....very michaely lol it's cute but i don't listen to it much

[Edited 7/11/10 22:22pm]

I am not crazy about this one either, but I looooooooooooove the demo.

ViintageJunkiie said:

Reel said:

I noticed the dirty jacket...but I just now honed in on that shirt.

That's all of MJ's sweat from 1986...

Who knows what George Lucas is up to with his billions at that ranch? He could be cloning MJ from all that DNA for all we know!

^ The person above dissing Mike as Quincy's puppet is so ignorant, I dont even know what to say...

Michael Jackson is one of the most talented artists (not just entertainer) this world has ever seen.

By the way, most MJ sites also has a Prince thread so your point is invalid.

Also, No one asked you to come here....? Vent your frustrations in your own blog, dearie. You clearly have a lot of it.

does anyone expect an album anouncement , it suppose to be these couple of days

motownlover said:

does anyone expect an album anouncement , it suppose to be these couple of days

I'm not really expecting anything, i think it's just speculation. I just don't want anything that has leaked on it.

I'll be disappointed if things like 'Xscape' and 'Hold My Hand' make the cut, cause i simply don't believe they're strong enough tracks.

Here's something that's gonna blow you away!

That Lego version was cute. However I still continue to be fascinated by rendition of Thriller.

[Edited 7/12/10 14:02pm]

[img:$uid]http://img188.i.../img:$uid]
[img:$uid]http://img692.i.../img:$uid]
[img:$uid]http://img375.i.../img:$uid]

[img:$uid]http://img638.i.../img:$uid]
[img:$uid]http://img5.ima.../img:$uid]
[img:$uid]http://img819.i.../img:$uid]

[Edited 7/12/10 15:07pm]

Swa said:

Reel said:

You are so damned polite and diplomatic. When I grow up, I wanna be just like you and Bboy.

Being an MJ fan for 30 years you do get to hear the same lame arguments offered up again and again. And I believe everyone should be treated with respect, and if I can help clarify some misconceptions then all good.

Happy for people to step with factual criticisms.

So agree, now it's like "This again?"

If people stay coming with those arguments, it shows more of their ignorance on Michael's career and work

This guy was no puppet. This was a guy who at age 8 and 9 was the opening act for James Brown, Joe Tex, Etta James, Aretha Franklin, Gladys Knight and The Pips, and The O' Jays

who at 12 sat in Marvin Gaye's sessions for "What's Goin' On"

who at 16 literally sat in the corner and watched and studied Stevie while he was working on Songs In The Key Of Life

learned the basics of songwriting and music theory by some of the greatest songwriters

would record full scale demos before going into the studio to record them (anyone who's heard the demos to The Girl Is Mine, Workin' Day And Night, Don't Stop Til You Get Enough, Billie Jean, State Of Shock, Dangerous, Wanna Be Startin' Somethin' and Shake Your Body know what I'm talking about)

bboy87 said:

Swa said:

Being an MJ fan for 30 years you do get to hear the same lame arguments offered up again and again. And I believe everyone should be treated with respect, and if I can help clarify some misconceptions then all good.

Happy for people to step with factual criticisms.

So agree, now it's like "This again?"

If people stay coming with those arguments, it shows more of their ignorance on Michael's career and work

This guy was no puppet. This was a guy who at age 8 and 9 was the opening act for James Brown, Joe Tex, Etta James, Aretha Franklin, Gladys Knight and The Pips, and The O' Jays

who at 12 sat in Marvin Gaye's sessions for "What's Goin' On"

who at 16 literally sat in the corner and watched and studied Stevie while he was working on Songs In The Key Of Life

learned the basics of songwriting and music theory by some of the greatest songwriters

would record full scale demos before going into the studio to record them (anyone who's heard the demos to The Girl Is Mine, Workin' Day And Night, Don't Stop Til You Get Enough, Billie Jean, State Of Shock, Dangerous, Wanna Be Startin' Somethin' and Shake Your Body know what I'm talking about)

Yanno? The guy was a legend before reaching 18 years old, he paid his dues when artists who were his age in the early 1970s don't know what to do with musical notes or dance steps.

Timmy84 said:

bboy87 said:

So agree, now it's like "This again?"

If people stay coming with those arguments, it shows more of their ignorance on Michael's career and work

This guy was no puppet. This was a guy who at age 8 and 9 was the opening act for James Brown, Joe Tex, Etta James, Aretha Franklin, Gladys Knight and The Pips, and The O' Jays

who at 12 sat in Marvin Gaye's sessions for "What's Goin' On"

who at 16 literally sat in the corner and watched and studied Stevie while he was working on Songs In The Key Of Life

learned the basics of songwriting and music theory by some of the greatest songwriters

would record full scale demos before going into the studio to record them (anyone who's heard the demos to The Girl Is Mine, Workin' Day And Night, Don't Stop Til You Get Enough, Billie Jean, State Of Shock, Dangerous, Wanna Be Startin' Somethin' and Shake Your Body know what I'm talking about)

Yanno? The guy was a legend before reaching 18 years old, he paid his dues when artists who were his age in the early 1970s don't know what to do with musical notes or dance steps.

Anybody's who seen the full timeline of how J5 worked from 1969 to 1975 knows those guys WORKED

they'd be in LA recording tracks for Motown, go to Vegas that night and do a week of shows at the MGM, get on a plane right after the last show and go to South Africa, do 3 shows there, go back to LA immediately after, record a flurry of tracks, do a couple of TV appearances, then go to another country and do a promo tour then go back to Vegas and do more shows there

those cats had a strong work ethic that after the release of Thriller, Michael said "lemme space it out"

And notice with Thriller, the album is around 110 million copies now....and he only did one TV performance, 3 videos, and 7 singles. and barely any interviews. That's the power of music

bboy87 said:

Swa said:

It was a starting point as for most people this is their sphere of reference for Michael. You know me, more than happy to discuss the music on every release he did.

To that point I just got my J5 live at the forum delivered today and about to crank that.

But what is everyone else's opinion on the music side of things - what are the essential songs for you?

I gotta make my list. I love all of Michael's work but there's some tracks were I literally REFUSE to listen to, matter of fact, I'll start from there

The Young Folks (from ABC)- I don't know what it is about this cut, but I skip it everytime it comes on. It's not a bad song, but I do without it

Wings Of My Love (from Got To Be There)- I skip this one, matter of fact, when I first heard the album years ago (probably around 1994), I listened to it twice and I think I haven't heard it since

Too Young (from Music And Me)- this isn't on my list anymore but it used to be! This one, I felt, was a complete misfire and reason why the Music And Me album felt so weak, but it wasn't until I was listening to the radio and heard it on a classical station that made me go "WOW"

Dapper Dan (from Forever Michael)- I don't hate this song, but I don't really like it either. It's like "Call On Me had to wait 10 years to finally be released but THIS made an album?"

Heaven Knows I Love You, Girl (from Goin' Places)- I've NEVER liked this song. This could've been done by The O'Jays and I still would dislike it, and I like O'Jays!

The Girl Is Mine (from Thriller)- it's funny, this song was #2 on the pop chart, #1 on the R&B chart, and #8 in the UK, and I rarely hear people say they like this song and I'm one of them. It's corny, cheesy, and unfunny. The demo from a year earlier is far superior. Ebony and Ivory was a better song. YEAH I SAID IT. Matter of fact, I turned TGIM and put on Ebony and Ivory to cleanse my ears

Torture (from Victory)- Yeah, this song has Jermaine's greasy fingerprints ALL OVER IT It's like an half assed attempt at Thriller, which wasn't a GREAT song, so it says alot

Body (from Victory)- Yeah Marlon is the lead vocalist on the song but I don't care

Heal The World (from Dangerous). NO....just......NO. From the album I regard as Michael's best written work, this song, I feel, the weakest. For All Time or Monkey Business or Someone Put Your Hand Out didn't get picked but THIS one did?! Michael had this thing for cheesy pop songs that I can get with because I tend to like the same songs sometimes (I have Kenny Rogers, Bros, Wham!, Culture Club, and remember, I like "Ebony and Ivory") but this one...will not do

D.S (from HIStory)- I understand the reason for putting this on the album and I give Michael props for doing it but I've never liked it, the lyrics...it's like he was just spouting out random shit

You Are Not Alone (from HIStory)- now get this, I love Childhood, and I love Earth Song, but I can't stand this song except for the last part when Michael starts adlibbing. Maybe because the song is cheesy beyond cheesy, maybe because I DESPISE the videos (No Michael, nobody wanted to see your balls, bruh....although Lisa Marie's butt was lookin' kinda nice back then) or maybe I can't stand the muthafucka who wrote it.....

Ghosts (from Blood On The Dancefloor)- I prefer Is It Scary over this one

Heartbreaker (from Invincible)- NO..NO....NO...Invincible's cool points went down because this clusterfuck of a song. The lyrics....okay, but the production.... (pushes plate away), I will not be having any of that, sir

2000 Watts (from Invincible)- why do I always imagine the old Cartoon Network series "Reboot" when I hear this track?

Cry (from Invincible)- We didn't need a Man In The Mirror 2001, Kells! GET THIS OUTTA HERE

The Lost Children (from Invincible)- Words cannot express my.......

utter......absolute.....complete....disdain for this song. I hate it like I hated gym class. I hate this song like Michael Jordan hates nice clothing. I hate this song like Jermaine hates dry hair. I hate this song like Mel Gibson hates everybody

this song was NOT COOL

How different we are LOL. I love "The lost children", can take "heal the world" occasionally and think "heartbreaker" is easily one of my fav songs from "Invincible".

You go waaay back LOL. Alot of the motown stuff is not surprisenly, weak to me. Jackson 5 were a boyband, and how many great boyband albums are there? Unless your last name was Wonder or Gaye, it's quite obvious to me that motown were all about the singles with their main groups and definately not albums. Still, thanks to Mike's amazing ability to sing his ass off on often medicore- awful songs, the albums are still of interest to me.

I pretty much agree with the J5 songs you dislike (though I quite like "the young folks"). It sounds like the partridge family, but its OK. "Dapper dan" is quite hilairious. "They call me dapper dan" LOL. Bizarre track, though it will never top "The mirrors of my mind" . I love the verses on that one but then it completely stops and turns to crap halfway through.

I like "you are not alone" alot, though Frankie Knuckles Franctified Club Mix off the cd single is the one I hear now (which is longer then the "BOTDF" version). Love that remix.

I LOVE "Torture" ,which was allegedly meant as a duet between Jackie and Michael (Jackie co-wrote and produced it so that makes sense). Jermaine came in very late for the "victory" project, which is probably why he is only on "Torture" and a few adlibs on "Wait" LOL. Poor Jackie. At least he got to sing lead on "Wait", one of my all time fav Jackson related tunes. I love high tech pop like "Torture". Michael sounds great on it. He still had his "Thriller" voice on that one and the other Jermaine duet, "Tell me I'm not dreamin'".

"The Girl is mine" is uber cheesy, very MOR. Credit to Michael for being able to write a convincing MOR duet LOL. Not a fan, but I do like the middle 8 though. The exchanges between Paul and Mike at the end is legendary LOL.

Never liked "D.S" much either, even with the "Owner of a lonely heart" sample (a song I dig alot). Song doesn't really go anywhere. Would of made a cool b side though.

Gotta say the 2 Gamble and Huff albums are not my thing. As you know, "Show you the way to go" was a no 1 hit in the UK (the Jacksons sole no. 1 here), and I like that track (they play it alot on vh1 UK, which is a clip from the Jacksons variety show I think?). "Enjoy yourself" is ok, and "even though your gone" and "find me a girl" are decent enough as well, but generally, I just can;t get with them. Too smooth for the J5. I can see why the 2 albums did very little for them chart wise.

"Music and me" album is one of his weakest albums for me (this includes his J5 albums). Too many laid back songs. Love the title track though, along with the slightly odd rendition of "all the things you are", a guilty pleasure if there ever was one.

I remember "reboot" LOL.

dag said:

[img:$uid]http://img375.i.../img:$uid]

Mr. Perfect Smile.

Timmy84 said:

Once again the Jackson 5 took a great song and made it even better....mmmm

bboy87 said:

Timmy84 said:

Yanno? The guy was a legend before reaching 18 years old, he paid his dues when artists who were his age in the early 1970s don't know what to do with musical notes or dance steps.

Anybody's who seen the full timeline of how J5 worked from 1969 to 1975 knows those guys WORKED

they'd be in LA recording tracks for Motown, go to Vegas that night and do a week of shows at the MGM, get on a plane right after the last show and go to South Africa, do 3 shows there, go back to LA immediately after, record a flurry of tracks, do a couple of TV appearances, then go to another country and do a promo tour then go back to Vegas and do more shows there

those cats had a strong work ethic that after the release of Thriller, Michael said "lemme space it out"

And notice with Thriller, the album is around 110 million copies now....and he only did one TV performance, 3 videos, and 7 singles. and barely any interviews. That's the power of music

You know "Thriller" ain't 110 million LOL.

Anyway I agree. Mike was worked like a workhorse (particually before his voice dropped, almost like motown was trying to make him sing as much as he physically could as they knew his voice was going to drop at any minute). Even though its cliche to say it, I feel for Michael when he says he use to wistfully look out of the studio window and wanted to play with kids in the park but he couldn't as vocals had to be recorded. He recorded an awful lot of songs in those early years at motown (and still quite alot in the later years). It would of taken its toll on Michael alot more then his brothers as they only really did backing vocals (and the odd Jermaine lead song LOL).

Michael earned his right to release albums when he wanted. His early career was full of albums with weak, filler material and Michael obviously knew this and decided he would never do it that way again. That and Mike becoming a perfectionist LOL.

KEEPBUSTIN said:

As a prince fan i get really offended when people compare MJ to Prince, i mean how can you. MJ was a wiered dancer who couldnt play any instruments or write his own songs. He was puppet and Quincy Jones was his master. I know this isnt an official P site (Thank God for that) but serious Why the fark do we even have an MJ thread????????????????????????. I get the whole freedom of speach thing but do you think MJ sites have a Prince thread?????????

I'm going to address two of your points and piss n shit on the rest of what you said.

The Prince comparison is correct, there's never was nor will ever be a comparison between P and Michael. One is a musician at heart but he can entertain, the other was an entertainer who COULD write and produce music.

But I want to jump on this Quincy Jones thing because I heard a lot of folks say something to that affect about Michael wouldn't have been successful without Q. It's total bullshit and I'll tell you why. Quincy was never a songwriter, what did he write? PYT, nope! James Ingram did, Quincy just wrote the title.

People want to make Quincy this super genius producer that made nobodies into superstars, get the fuck outta here.

Quincy was spoiled, he surrounded himself with ultra-talented but unknown and unsigned artists, making them famous and he put his name on the songs on his albums getting all the credit.

The Brothers Johnson wrote and played on most of those hit songs, James Ingram is a beast both singing and composing. Patti Austin, Siedah Garrett, Greg Phillinganes, Leon Ware, Hubert Laws, Luther Vandross and others were already doing their thing.

Rod Temperton wrote a lot of those hit songs that Quincy is credited for, Give Me The Night, Yah Mo Be There, Secret Garden, Stomp, You Put A Move On My Heart, The Dude, Baby, Come To Me.

Don't get me wrong, I respect Q and the music he composed and arranged but to say that Michael needed Quincy is like saying Stevie or Marvin needed Motown to be successful, it's the other way around. Quincy couldn't sing those songs, he couldn't play all of those instruments, he couldn't engineer the songs by himself.

Bottom line, it's a team effort (was a team effort), everybody brings in what they do best.

thatruth said:

KEEPBUSTIN said:

As a prince fan i get really offended when people compare MJ to Prince, i mean how can you. MJ was a wiered dancer who couldnt play any instruments or write his own songs. He was puppet and Quincy Jones was his master. I know this isnt an official P site (Thank God for that) but serious Why the fark do we even have an MJ thread????????????????????????. I get the whole freedom of speach thing but do you think MJ sites have a Prince thread?????????

I'm going to address two of your points and piss n shit on the rest of what you said.

The Prince comparison is correct, there's never was nor will ever be a comparison between P and Michael. One is a musician at heart but he can entertain, the other was an entertainer who COULD write and produce music.

But I want to jump on this Quincy Jones thing because I heard a lot of folks say something to that affect about Michael wouldn't have been successful without Q. It's total bullshit and I'll tell you why. Quincy was never a songwriter, what did he write? PYT, nope! James Ingram did, Quincy just wrote the title.

People want to make Quincy this super genius producer that made nobodies into superstars, get the fuck outta here.

Quincy was spoiled, he surrounded himself with ultra-talented but unknown and unsigned artists, making them famous and he put his name on the songs on his albums getting all the credit.

The Brothers Johnson wrote and played on most of those hit songs, James Ingram is a beast both singing and composing. Patti Austin, Siedah Garrett, Greg Phillinganes, Leon Ware, Hubert Laws, Luther Vandross and others were already doing their thing.

Rod Temperton wrote a lot of those hit songs that Quincy is credited for, Give Me The Night, Yah Mo Be There, Secret Garden, Stomp, You Put A Move On My Heart, The Dude, Baby, Come To Me.

Don't get me wrong, I respect Q and the music he composed and arranged but to say that Michael needed Quincy is like saying Stevie or Marvin needed Motown to be successful, it's the other way around. Quincy couldn't sing those songs, he couldn't play all of those instruments, he couldn't engineer the songs by himself.

Bottom line, it's a team effort (was a team effort), everybody brings in what they do best.

thatruth said:

KEEPBUSTIN said:

As a prince fan i get really offended when people compare MJ to Prince, i mean how can you. MJ was a wiered dancer who couldnt play any instruments or write his own songs. He was puppet and Quincy Jones was his master. I know this isnt an official P site (Thank God for that) but serious Why the fark do we even have an MJ thread????????????????????????. I get the whole freedom of speach thing but do you think MJ sites have a Prince thread?????????

I'm going to address two of your points and piss n shit on the rest of what you said.

The Prince comparison is correct, there's never was nor will ever be a comparison between P and Michael. One is a musician at heart but he can entertain, the other was an entertainer who COULD write and produce music.

But I want to jump on this Quincy Jones thing because I heard a lot of folks say something to that affect about Michael wouldn't have been successful without Q. It's total bullshit and I'll tell you why. Quincy was never a songwriter, what did he write? PYT, nope! James Ingram did, Quincy just wrote the title.

People want to make Quincy this super genius producer that made nobodies into superstars, get the fuck outta here.

Quincy was spoiled, he surrounded himself with ultra-talented but unknown and unsigned artists, making them famous and he put his name on the songs on his albums getting all the credit.

The Brothers Johnson wrote and played on most of those hit songs, James Ingram is a beast both singing and composing. Patti Austin, Siedah Garrett, Greg Phillinganes, Leon Ware, Hubert Laws, Luther Vandross and others were already doing their thing.

Rod Temperton wrote a lot of those hit songs that Quincy is credited for, Give Me The Night, Yah Mo Be There, Secret Garden, Stomp, You Put A Move On My Heart, The Dude, Baby, Come To Me.

Don't get me wrong, I respect Q and the music he composed and arranged but to say that Michael needed Quincy is like saying Stevie or Marvin needed Motown to be successful, it's the other way around. Quincy couldn't sing those songs, he couldn't play all of those instruments, he couldn't engineer the songs by himself.

Bottom line, it's a team effort (was a team effort), everybody brings in what they do best.

Best post ever.

To even hint that MJ was puppet in the studio is ridiculous, he created those timless classics himself, Wincy clones worked with many, why his works weren't that successful with other artists?

MJ was the truth and the reason to all the success , he made himself successful by himslef and his hard work.

http://www.youtube.com/wa...nHvSASK_tg

Jazz version of Billie Jean- quite nice.

Wincy Clones LOL

love that Triumph tour pic