NastradumasKid said:

seeingvoices12 said: NastradumasKid said: seeingvoices12 said: NastradumasKid said: dseann said: NastradumasKid said: dseann said: NastradumasKid said: Seeingvoices, I love you but don't be a hypocritic. What you just said was just as bad. Are you saying that Madonna looks like a dead man? :confused: What are you talking about? The avatar referenced in the post was that of Madonna. The post said don't be a hypocrite. Take my response from there and clear your confusiton. umm okay... I don't know why you're making jokes I was being serious seeingvoices was being very rude. Being rude to who? What it necessary to call Madonna ugly? That's no different from the people who called MJ ugly before and AFTER he died. I just find it rather annoying when people call other ugly, you could have just said she was unattractive. Ugly? Where the hell in my post I said that Madonna is Ugly, I never said she is ugly, I said disgusting because original poster doesn’t even have respect for dead people, I said she is disgusting cause they called mike disgusting, and maybe I wouldn’t even quote that post if MJ was alive and I would ignore it, , but since he is gone , I will not be quiet, obviously even in death people still call him the most outrageous names. I also said she is talentless hag because she is really is, I think she is talentless and that’s my personal opinion. And com on now there was thread for Madonna before weeks ago and I did criticize her for exposing her wrinkled body to public, but I never ever called her ugly, in fact, I said that I have always thought that she was gorgeous You can check the thread if you want Don’t put words into my mouth You really are overly sensitive are you? My god you can't a joke.

[Edited 5/30/10 14:56pm]

It wasn't funny, I'm not amused .....

And yeah, Maybe Im sensitive and thank god that I'm.

seeingvoices12 said:

NastradumasKid said:

seeingvoices12 said: NastradumasKid said: seeingvoices12 said: NastradumasKid said: dseann said: NastradumasKid said: dseann said: NastradumasKid said: Seeingvoices, I love you but don't be a hypocritic. What you just said was just as bad. Are you saying that Madonna looks like a dead man? :confused: What are you talking about? The avatar referenced in the post was that of Madonna. The post said don't be a hypocrite. Take my response from there and clear your confusiton. umm okay... I don't know why you're making jokes I was being serious seeingvoices was being very rude. Being rude to who? What it necessary to call Madonna ugly? That's no different from the people who called MJ ugly before and AFTER he died. I just find it rather annoying when people call other ugly, you could have just said she was unattractive. Ugly? Where the hell in my post I said that Madonna is Ugly, I never said she is ugly, I said disgusting because original poster doesn’t even have respect for dead people, I said she is disgusting cause they called mike disgusting, and maybe I wouldn’t even quote that post if MJ was alive and I would ignore it, , but since he is gone , I will not be quiet, obviously even in death people still call him the most outrageous names. I also said she is talentless hag because she is really is, I think she is talentless and that’s my personal opinion. And com on now there was thread for Madonna before weeks ago and I did criticize her for exposing her wrinkled body to public, but I never ever called her ugly, in fact, I said that I have always thought that she was gorgeous You can check the thread if you want Don’t put words into my mouth You really are overly sensitive are you? My god you can't a joke.

[Edited 5/30/10 14:56pm]

It wasn't funny, I'm not amused .....

And yeah, Maybe Im sensitive and thank god that I'm.

Well, sorry but you're the one who fell for it.

seeingvoices12 said:

NastradumasKid said:

seeingvoices12 said: NastradumasKid said: seeingvoices12 said: NastradumasKid said: dseann said: NastradumasKid said: dseann said: NastradumasKid said: Seeingvoices, I love you but don't be a hypocritic. What you just said was just as bad. Are you saying that Madonna looks like a dead man? :confused: What are you talking about? The avatar referenced in the post was that of Madonna. The post said don't be a hypocrite. Take my response from there and clear your confusiton. umm okay... I don't know why you're making jokes I was being serious seeingvoices was being very rude. Being rude to who? What it necessary to call Madonna ugly? That's no different from the people who called MJ ugly before and AFTER he died. I just find it rather annoying when people call other ugly, you could have just said she was unattractive. Ugly? Where the hell in my post I said that Madonna is Ugly, I never said she is ugly, I said disgusting because original poster doesn’t even have respect for dead people, I said she is disgusting cause they called mike disgusting, and maybe I wouldn’t even quote that post if MJ was alive and I would ignore it, , but since he is gone , I will not be quiet, obviously even in death people still call him the most outrageous names. I also said she is talentless hag because she is really is, I think she is talentless and that’s my personal opinion. And com on now there was thread for Madonna before weeks ago and I did criticize her for exposing her wrinkled body to public, but I never ever called her ugly, in fact, I said that I have always thought that she was gorgeous You can check the thread if you want Don’t put words into my mouth You really are overly sensitive are you? My god you can't a joke.

[Edited 5/30/10 14:56pm]

It wasn't funny, I'm not amused .....

And yeah, Maybe Im sensitive and thank god that I'm.

For what it's worth, I agree with you. I also think she's a talentless hag.

NastradumasKid said:

seeingvoices12 said:

NastradumasKid said: seeingvoices12 said: NastradumasKid said: dseann said: NastradumasKid said: dseann said: NastradumasKid said: Seeingvoices, I love you but don't be a hypocritic. What you just said was just as bad. Are you saying that Madonna looks like a dead man? :confused: What are you talking about? The avatar referenced in the post was that of Madonna. The post said don't be a hypocrite. Take my response from there and clear your confusiton. umm okay... I don't know why you're making jokes I was being serious seeingvoices was being very rude. Being rude to who? What it necessary to call Madonna ugly? That's no different from the people who called MJ ugly before and AFTER he died. I just find it rather annoying when people call other ugly, you could have just said she was unattractive. Ugly? Where the hell in my post I said that Madonna is Ugly, I never said she is ugly, I said disgusting because original poster doesn’t even have respect for dead people, I said she is disgusting cause they called mike disgusting, and maybe I wouldn’t even quote that post if MJ was alive and I would ignore it, , but since he is gone , I will not be quiet, obviously even in death people still call him the most outrageous names. I also said she is talentless hag because she is really is, I think she is talentless and that’s my personal opinion. And com on now there was thread for Madonna before weeks ago and I did criticize her for exposing her wrinkled body to public, but I never ever called her ugly, in fact, I said that I have always thought that she was gorgeous You can check the thread if you want Don’t put words into my mouth

You really are overly sensitive are you? My god you can't a joke. [Edited 5/30/10 14:56pm]

[Edited 5/30/10 14:58pm]

the biggest MJ Stan on the org take an MJ joke? never

TheBoyfromtheBand said:

NastradumasKid said:

seeingvoices12 said:

NastradumasKid said: seeingvoices12 said: NastradumasKid said: dseann said: NastradumasKid said: dseann said: NastradumasKid said: Seeingvoices, I love you but don't be a hypocritic. What you just said was just as bad. Are you saying that Madonna looks like a dead man? :confused: What are you talking about? The avatar referenced in the post was that of Madonna. The post said don't be a hypocrite. Take my response from there and clear your confusiton. umm okay... I don't know why you're making jokes I was being serious seeingvoices was being very rude. Being rude to who? What it necessary to call Madonna ugly? That's no different from the people who called MJ ugly before and AFTER he died. I just find it rather annoying when people call other ugly, you could have just said she was unattractive. Ugly? Where the hell in my post I said that Madonna is Ugly, I never said she is ugly, I said disgusting because original poster doesn’t even have respect for dead people, I said she is disgusting cause they called mike disgusting, and maybe I wouldn’t even quote that post if MJ was alive and I would ignore it, , but since he is gone , I will not be quiet, obviously even in death people still call him the most outrageous names. I also said she is talentless hag because she is really is, I think she is talentless and that’s my personal opinion. And com on now there was thread for Madonna before weeks ago and I did criticize her for exposing her wrinkled body to public, but I never ever called her ugly, in fact, I said that I have always thought that she was gorgeous You can check the thread if you want Don’t put words into my mouth

You really are overly sensitive are you? My god you can't a joke. [Edited 5/30/10 14:56pm]

[Edited 5/30/10 14:58pm]

the biggest MJ Stan on the org take an MJ joke? never

Do I know you, or do you know me ?

Just because I defend Michael doesn't mean that I'm a stan, Maybe most devoted but Not a stan , I don't get to the point to personally insult my fellow orgers because of MJ......

and let me clear something , NastradumasKid said that she was being serious then she said that she was joking , whenever I post something that would clear and enhance my point, she would say . Oh you can't stand a joke, It was a joke .really ..That happened many times ......It's hard to understand her sometimes , she was never joking when she first quoted my post and its so obvious

seeingvoices12 said:

TheBoyfromtheBand said:

NastradumasKid said:

seeingvoices12 said:

NastradumasKid said: seeingvoices12 said: NastradumasKid said: dseann said: NastradumasKid said: dseann said: NastradumasKid said: Seeingvoices, I love you but don't be a hypocritic. What you just said was just as bad. Are you saying that Madonna looks like a dead man? :confused: What are you talking about? The avatar referenced in the post was that of Madonna. The post said don't be a hypocrite. Take my response from there and clear your confusiton. umm okay... I don't know why you're making jokes I was being serious seeingvoices was being very rude. Being rude to who? What it necessary to call Madonna ugly? That's no different from the people who called MJ ugly before and AFTER he died. I just find it rather annoying when people call other ugly, you could have just said she was unattractive. Ugly? Where the hell in my post I said that Madonna is Ugly, I never said she is ugly, I said disgusting because original poster doesn’t even have respect for dead people, I said she is disgusting cause they called mike disgusting, and maybe I wouldn’t even quote that post if MJ was alive and I would ignore it, , but since he is gone , I will not be quiet, obviously even in death people still call him the most outrageous names. I also said she is talentless hag because she is really is, I think she is talentless and that’s my personal opinion. And com on now there was thread for Madonna before weeks ago and I did criticize her for exposing her wrinkled body to public, but I never ever called her ugly, in fact, I said that I have always thought that she was gorgeous You can check the thread if you want Don’t put words into my mouth

You really are overly sensitive are you? My god you can't a joke. [Edited 5/30/10 14:56pm]

[Edited 5/30/10 14:58pm]

the biggest MJ Stan on the org take an MJ joke? never

Do I know you, or do you know me ?

Just because I defend Michael doesn't mean that I'm a stan, Maybe most devoted but Not a stan , I don't get to the point to personally insult my fellow orgers because of MJ......

and let me clear something , NastradumasKid said that she was being serious then she said that she was joking , whenever I post something that would clear and enhance my point, she would say . Oh you can't stand a joke, It was a joke .really ..That happened many times ......It's hard to understand her sometimes , she was never joking when she first quoted my post and its so obvious

dude, you are totally a stan, it doesnt take an autobiography to figure that out. all you have to do is look at your posting history to figure that out. you turn threads that have nothing to do with MJ into something thats all about touting the man. i get it, MJ was the man, always was always will be. why does that fact have to take away from everyone else in the world? why do you always need to attack someone else's artistic merits, madonna in this case, just because they dont compare to mikes?

TheBoyfromtheBand said:

seeingvoices12 said:

TheBoyfromtheBand said:

NastradumasKid said:

seeingvoices12 said:

NastradumasKid said: seeingvoices12 said: NastradumasKid said: dseann said: NastradumasKid said: dseann said: NastradumasKid said: Seeingvoices, I love you but don't be a hypocritic. What you just said was just as bad. Are you saying that Madonna looks like a dead man? :confused: What are you talking about? The avatar referenced in the post was that of Madonna. The post said don't be a hypocrite. Take my response from there and clear your confusiton. umm okay... I don't know why you're making jokes I was being serious seeingvoices was being very rude. Being rude to who? What it necessary to call Madonna ugly? That's no different from the people who called MJ ugly before and AFTER he died. I just find it rather annoying when people call other ugly, you could have just said she was unattractive. Ugly? Where the hell in my post I said that Madonna is Ugly, I never said she is ugly, I said disgusting because original poster doesn’t even have respect for dead people, I said she is disgusting cause they called mike disgusting, and maybe I wouldn’t even quote that post if MJ was alive and I would ignore it, , but since he is gone , I will not be quiet, obviously even in death people still call him the most outrageous names. I also said she is talentless hag because she is really is, I think she is talentless and that’s my personal opinion. And com on now there was thread for Madonna before weeks ago and I did criticize her for exposing her wrinkled body to public, but I never ever called her ugly, in fact, I said that I have always thought that she was gorgeous You can check the thread if you want Don’t put words into my mouth

You really are overly sensitive are you? My god you can't a joke. [Edited 5/30/10 14:56pm]

[Edited 5/30/10 14:58pm]

the biggest MJ Stan on the org take an MJ joke? never

Do I know you, or do you know me ?

Just because I defend Michael doesn't mean that I'm a stan, Maybe most devoted but Not a stan , I don't get to the point to personally insult my fellow orgers because of MJ......

and let me clear something , NastradumasKid said that she was being serious then she said that she was joking , whenever I post something that would clear and enhance my point, she would say . Oh you can't stand a joke, It was a joke .really ..That happened many times ......It's hard to understand her sometimes , she was never joking when she first quoted my post and its so obvious

dude, you are totally a stan, it doesnt take an autobiography to figure that out. all you have to do is look at your posting history to figure that out. you turn threads that have nothing to do with MJ into something thats all about touting the man. i get it, MJ was the man, always was always will be. why does that fact have to take away from everyone else in the world? why do you always need to attack someone else's artistic merits, madonna in this case, just because they dont compare to mikes?

That’s a damn lie.

And you are making things up, Plain and simple.....

I don't need to look at my post history because I know what I post, I don’t mention MJ in any non- MJ thread unless someone negatively mentions him and If I did mention MJ on any non-MJ threads then I want you to post the link to those threads so all orgers can see ….other than that stop making things up about me, I have never turned a non-MJ thread to an MJ thread, That’s lie, My post history is there , anyone can see it. and it will prove again that’s it’s a lie.

You obviously didn’t like what I said about Madonna, that’s why you are furious and Pressed, I attacked Madonna artistic merits( that if he she has any) because I have the right to do so, I can criticize her all I want, that’s none of anyone’s business , people freely criticize MJ and other artists too, I think I have the right to do the same.

And if you really took the time to check the thread you wouldn’t say this, I didn’t firstly mention Madonna unless obviously a Madonna fan insulted a dead man ….duh…and you are saying that you checked my post history, LOL, I highly doubt it, because if you did, you wouldn’t that I turn every thread to an MJ thread.

Again, Stop making things UP.

Hehe this is too funny mike will be turning in his grave listening to u lot , awwwww RIP mj, don't listen to them

seeingvoices12 said:

TheBoyfromtheBand said:

seeingvoices12 said:

TheBoyfromtheBand said:

NastradumasKid said:

seeingvoices12 said:

NastradumasKid said: seeingvoices12 said: NastradumasKid said: dseann said: NastradumasKid said: dseann said: NastradumasKid said: Seeingvoices, I love you but don't be a hypocritic. What you just said was just as bad. Are you saying that Madonna looks like a dead man? :confused: What are you talking about? The avatar referenced in the post was that of Madonna. The post said don't be a hypocrite. Take my response from there and clear your confusiton. umm okay... I don't know why you're making jokes I was being serious seeingvoices was being very rude. Being rude to who? What it necessary to call Madonna ugly? That's no different from the people who called MJ ugly before and AFTER he died. I just find it rather annoying when people call other ugly, you could have just said she was unattractive. Ugly? Where the hell in my post I said that Madonna is Ugly, I never said she is ugly, I said disgusting because original poster doesn’t even have respect for dead people, I said she is disgusting cause they called mike disgusting, and maybe I wouldn’t even quote that post if MJ was alive and I would ignore it, , but since he is gone , I will not be quiet, obviously even in death people still call him the most outrageous names. I also said she is talentless hag because she is really is, I think she is talentless and that’s my personal opinion. And com on now there was thread for Madonna before weeks ago and I did criticize her for exposing her wrinkled body to public, but I never ever called her ugly, in fact, I said that I have always thought that she was gorgeous You can check the thread if you want Don’t put words into my mouth

You really are overly sensitive are you? My god you can't a joke. [Edited 5/30/10 14:56pm]

[Edited 5/30/10 14:58pm]

the biggest MJ Stan on the org take an MJ joke? never

Do I know you, or do you know me ?

Just because I defend Michael doesn't mean that I'm a stan, Maybe most devoted but Not a stan , I don't get to the point to personally insult my fellow orgers because of MJ......

and let me clear something , NastradumasKid said that she was being serious then she said that she was joking , whenever I post something that would clear and enhance my point, she would say . Oh you can't stand a joke, It was a joke .really ..That happened many times ......It's hard to understand her sometimes , she was never joking when she first quoted my post and its so obvious

dude, you are totally a stan, it doesnt take an autobiography to figure that out. all you have to do is look at your posting history to figure that out. you turn threads that have nothing to do with MJ into something thats all about touting the man. i get it, MJ was the man, always was always will be. why does that fact have to take away from everyone else in the world? why do you always need to attack someone else's artistic merits, madonna in this case, just because they dont compare to mikes?

That’s a damn lie.

And you are making things up, Plain and simple.....

I don't need to look at my post history because I know what I post, I don’t mention MJ in any non- MJ thread unless someone negatively mentions him and If I did mention MJ on any non-MJ threads then I want you to post the link to those threads so all orgers can see ….other than that stop making things up about me, I have never turned a non-MJ thread to an MJ thread, That’s lie, My post history is there , anyone can see it. and it will prove again that’s it’s a lie.

You obviously didn’t like what I said about Madonna, that’s why you are furious and Pressed, I attacked Madonna artistic merits( that if he she has any) because I have the right to do so, I can criticize her all I want, that’s none of anyone’s business , people freely criticize MJ and other artists too, I think I have the right to do the same.

And if you really took the time to check the thread you wouldn’t say this, I didn’t firstly mention Madonna unless obviously a Madonna fan insulted a dead man ….duh…and you are saying that you checked my post history, LOL, I highly doubt it, because if you did, you wouldn’t that I turn every thread to an MJ thread.

Again, Stop making things UP.

No disrespect, but if some folks insulted MJ when he was alive, what makes any of you think it's going to stop. Some folks are Prince fans, some are Madonna fans, and you have to accept it. Just laugh it off or ignore them. MJ is a sweetheart to me, and that's what I do.

angel345 said:

seeingvoices12 said:

TheBoyfromtheBand said:

seeingvoices12 said:

TheBoyfromtheBand said:

NastradumasKid said:

seeingvoices12 said:

NastradumasKid said: seeingvoices12 said: NastradumasKid said: dseann said: NastradumasKid said: dseann said: NastradumasKid said: Seeingvoices, I love you but don't be a hypocritic. What you just said was just as bad. Are you saying that Madonna looks like a dead man? :confused: What are you talking about? The avatar referenced in the post was that of Madonna. The post said don't be a hypocrite. Take my response from there and clear your confusiton. umm okay... I don't know why you're making jokes I was being serious seeingvoices was being very rude. Being rude to who? What it necessary to call Madonna ugly? That's no different from the people who called MJ ugly before and AFTER he died. I just find it rather annoying when people call other ugly, you could have just said she was unattractive. Ugly? Where the hell in my post I said that Madonna is Ugly, I never said she is ugly, I said disgusting because original poster doesn’t even have respect for dead people, I said she is disgusting cause they called mike disgusting, and maybe I wouldn’t even quote that post if MJ was alive and I would ignore it, , but since he is gone , I will not be quiet, obviously even in death people still call him the most outrageous names. I also said she is talentless hag because she is really is, I think she is talentless and that’s my personal opinion. And com on now there was thread for Madonna before weeks ago and I did criticize her for exposing her wrinkled body to public, but I never ever called her ugly, in fact, I said that I have always thought that she was gorgeous You can check the thread if you want Don’t put words into my mouth

You really are overly sensitive are you? My god you can't a joke. [Edited 5/30/10 14:56pm]

[Edited 5/30/10 14:58pm]

the biggest MJ Stan on the org take an MJ joke? never

Do I know you, or do you know me ?

Just because I defend Michael doesn't mean that I'm a stan, Maybe most devoted but Not a stan , I don't get to the point to personally insult my fellow orgers because of MJ......

and let me clear something , NastradumasKid said that she was being serious then she said that she was joking , whenever I post something that would clear and enhance my point, she would say . Oh you can't stand a joke, It was a joke .really ..That happened many times ......It's hard to understand her sometimes , she was never joking when she first quoted my post and its so obvious

dude, you are totally a stan, it doesnt take an autobiography to figure that out. all you have to do is look at your posting history to figure that out. you turn threads that have nothing to do with MJ into something thats all about touting the man. i get it, MJ was the man, always was always will be. why does that fact have to take away from everyone else in the world? why do you always need to attack someone else's artistic merits, madonna in this case, just because they dont compare to mikes?

That’s a damn lie.

And you are making things up, Plain and simple.....

I don't need to look at my post history because I know what I post, I don’t mention MJ in any non- MJ thread unless someone negatively mentions him and If I did mention MJ on any non-MJ threads then I want you to post the link to those threads so all orgers can see ….other than that stop making things up about me, I have never turned a non-MJ thread to an MJ thread, That’s lie, My post history is there , anyone can see it. and it will prove again that’s it’s a lie.

You obviously didn’t like what I said about Madonna, that’s why you are furious and Pressed, I attacked Madonna artistic merits( that if he she has any) because I have the right to do so, I can criticize her all I want, that’s none of anyone’s business , people freely criticize MJ and other artists too, I think I have the right to do the same.

And if you really took the time to check the thread you wouldn’t say this, I didn’t firstly mention Madonna unless obviously a Madonna fan insulted a dead man ….duh…and you are saying that you checked my post history, LOL, I highly doubt it, because if you did, you wouldn’t that I turn every thread to an MJ thread.

Again, Stop making things UP.

No disrespect, but if some folks insulted MJ when he was alive, what makes any of you think it's going to stop. Some folks are Prince fans, some are Madonna fans, and you have to accept it. Just laugh it off or ignore them. MJ is a sweetheart to me, and that's what I do.

You know what, I agree.....

I just wanted to clear that I don't turn any thread to a MJ thread, I have never done that , Other than that I agree with you , The ignore button is a powerful one.

ernestsewell said:

First his album flops, then he blames talent shows like Idol, now he's apparently back on top putting in his bid to be the next King of Pop:

"I've been doing this 18 years now and my icon is well on its way. Michael was doing it for 50 years and that's something I'd like to grow towards. At the same time, I am one of a kind, a worldwide pop icon."

Douchebag.

TBH, he is going a bit too far, but he isn't lying about him being an Icon and a legend. He has the longevity, he has the musical catalogue for the most part(he hit or miss, but even the legends do that), and he has the influence. He and Beyoncè are the biggest influences in R&B/Pop from those who were came into the industry as teens in the 90s. Even Mike McCrary from Boys II Men said it: From the article:

"To be honest I think the time of legendary artists ended with Boyz II Men and artists like Usher and Beyonce. We are kind of like the last of the Mohicans as far as knowing what it takes to become a legend in terms of our work ethic – it's become a lot more corporate and less organic."

http://edinburghnews.scot...6296059.jp

It might sound egotistical for him to say what he said, but it's the truth whether people like it or not.

Curtwill1975 said:

ernestsewell said:

First his album flops, then he blames talent shows like Idol, now he's apparently back on top putting in his bid to be the next King of Pop:

"I've been doing this 18 years now and my icon is well on its way. Michael was doing it for 50 years and that's something I'd like to grow towards. At the same time, I am one of a kind, a worldwide pop icon."

Douchebag.

TBH, he is going a bit too far, but he isn't lying about him being an Icon and a legend. He has the longevity, he has the musical catalogue for the most part(he hit or miss, but even the legends do that), and he has the influence. He and Beyoncè are the biggest influences in R&B/Pop from those who were came into the industry as teens in the 90s. Even Mike McCrary from Boys II Men said it: From the article:

"To be honest I think the time of legendary artists ended with Boyz II Men and artists like Usher and Beyonce. We are kind of like the last of the Mohicans as far as knowing what it takes to become a legend in terms of our work ethic – it's become a lot more corporate and less organic."

http://edinburghnews.scot...6296059.jp

It might sound egotistical for him to say what he said, but it's the truth whether people like it or not.

And another thing, when I talk about him being a legend, I am talking about in context of his generation. What he has done for R&B music speaks for itself, whether peeps like or not. It seems to me that people in here love to attack music past 1980s like it's the end of great music and entertainment and anything after that is to be ignored. Guess what? There is still music and entertainment going on and much of is very good. Artist don't need to be MJ or Stevie or Prince to be great. They just have to have their own lane, like Usher does and their legacy speaks for themselves.

Usher thinks he is better than he actually is. But he is.a nonsense act. You cannot polish a turd is what I say. Now if you wanna hear well produced contemporary hip hop listen to spank rock. At least they are fresh and their music is well produced. And just for the record, j z is awful too but so many people admire him. I cannot see why.
[Edited 6/1/10 15:12pm]