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Printablesleepyq said: midiscover said: Thank you!! He's such a hypocrite. If you were a member sometime last year you would know that he used to trash Janet like no other. Reason why I don't buy this I'm just giving constructive criticism crap.  Watch him say that we inflate Janet's talents. He has a hard time dealing with the fact that Janet is more talented than MJ. Girl, please! Cry me a river. Go attend a vigil and listen to Thriller, ya know. It's getting annoying. I HATE fake people. He needs to get gone and stop sucking all the fun out of us Janet fans. Let us have our moment just because you can't, doesn't mean we can't. YA KNOW! 
[Edited 3/2/10 17:22pm] Uuuh... I dont think Janet is more talented than MJ! She had better routines, but... come on now!
But her work is far, far superior, its not even funny. Michael could never come up with something as brilliant as RN1814. Thats why he was so mad, talkin about "Janet got it from me." He was mad he dint think of it first!
Dangerous was a RN1814 attempt, but he failed to eclipse Janet's landmark record. Janet left him in the dust witth the 3-4 punch of janet, TVR, A4U, and DJ. While he wass till tryna be Peter Pan at 40 YO, she was developing as an artist and exploring new subject matter, sounds, and imagery. And of course, Janet has never created anything as shitastic as Invisible.
Michael may be more talented, but that doesn't mean he made the best music or videos. Whats the use of talent when u cant utililize it? Janet > Michael End of. I agree, with you to an extent. I still think Janet is far more talented. She can do just about everything. | |
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sleepyq said: midiscover said: Thank you!! He's such a hypocrite. If you were a member sometime last year you would know that he used to trash Janet like no other. Reason why I don't buy this I'm just giving constructive criticism crap. Watch him say that we inflate Janet's talents. He has a hard time dealing with the fact that Janet is more talented than MJ. Girl, please! Cry me a river. Go attend a vigil and listen to Thriller, ya know. It's getting annoying. I HATE fake people. He needs to get gone and stop sucking all the fun out of us Janet fans. Let us have our moment just because you can't, doesn't mean we can't. YA KNOW!
[Edited 3/2/10 17:22pm] Uuuh... I dont think Janet is more talented than MJ! She had better routines, but... come on now!
But her work is far, far superior, its not even funny. Michael could never come up with something as brilliant as RN1814. Thats why he was so mad, talkin about "Janet got it from me." He was mad he dint think of it first!
Dangerous was a RN1814 attempt, but he failed to eclipse Janet's landmark record. Janet left him in the dust witth the 3-4 punch of janet, TVR, A4U, and DJ. While he wass till tryna be Peter Pan at 40 YO, she was developing as an artist and exploring new subject matter, sounds, and imagery. And of course, Janet has never created anything as shitastic as Invisible.
Michael may be more talented, but that doesn't mean he made the best music or videos. Whats the use of talent when u cant utililize it? Janet > Michael End of. but Dangerous sounds nothing like RN "We may deify or demonize them but not ignore them. And we call them genius, because they are the people who change the world." |
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bboy87 said: sleepyq said: Uuuh... I dont think Janet is more talented than MJ! She had better routines, but... come on now!
But her work is far, far superior, its not even funny. Michael could never come up with something as brilliant as RN1814. Thats why he was so mad, talkin about "Janet got it from me." He was mad he dint think of it first!
Dangerous was a RN1814 attempt, but he failed to eclipse Janet's landmark record. Janet left him in the dust witth the 3-4 punch of janet, TVR, A4U, and DJ. While he wass till tryna be Peter Pan at 40 YO, she was developing as an artist and exploring new subject matter, sounds, and imagery. And of course, Janet has never created anything as shitastic as Invisible.
Michael may be more talented, but that doesn't mean he made the best music or videos. Whats the use of talent when u cant utililize it? Janet > Michael End of. but Dangerous sounds nothing like RN Dangerous is basically RN Pt. 2 | |
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bboy87 said: sleepyq said: Uuuh... I dont think Janet is more talented than MJ! She had better routines, but... come on now!
But her work is far, far superior, its not even funny. Michael could never come up with something as brilliant as RN1814. Thats why he was so mad, talkin about "Janet got it from me." He was mad he dint think of it first!
Dangerous was a RN1814 attempt, but he failed to eclipse Janet's landmark record. Janet left him in the dust witth the 3-4 punch of janet, TVR, A4U, and DJ. While he wass till tryna be Peter Pan at 40 YO, she was developing as an artist and exploring new subject matter, sounds, and imagery. And of course, Janet has never created anything as shitastic as Invisible.
Michael may be more talented, but that doesn't mean he made the best music or videos. Whats the use of talent when u cant utililize it? Janet > Michael End of. but Dangerous sounds nothing like RN i wont answer u till u answer my post in the other thread. 
i can debate on music, but not until i get my answer... | |
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bboy87 said: sleepyq said: Uuuh... I dont think Janet is more talented than MJ! She had better routines, but... come on now!
But her work is far, far superior, its not even funny. Michael could never come up with something as brilliant as RN1814. Thats why he was so mad, talkin about "Janet got it from me." He was mad he dint think of it first!
Dangerous was a RN1814 attempt, but he failed to eclipse Janet's landmark record. Janet left him in the dust witth the 3-4 punch of janet, TVR, A4U, and DJ. While he wass till tryna be Peter Pan at 40 YO, she was developing as an artist and exploring new subject matter, sounds, and imagery. And of course, Janet has never created anything as shitastic as Invisible.
Michael may be more talented, but that doesn't mean he made the best music or videos. Whats the use of talent when u cant utililize it? Janet > Michael End of. but Dangerous sounds nothing like RN Jay, Don’t take the post seriously... And Notice That I didn't bring MJ to the discussion, the insecure Janet fans did. That proved what I have been saying here, . Dangerous is an artistic record, There is no comparsion. MICHAEL JACKSON
R.I.P مايكل جاكسون للأبد 1958 | |
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seeingvoices12 said: bboy87 said: but Dangerous sounds nothing like RN Jay, Don’t take the post seriously... And Notice That I didn't bring MJ to the discussion, the insecure Janet fans did. That proved what I have been saying here, . Dangerous is an artistic record, There is no comparsion. Who's the one in a JANET thread? 
Dangerous isn't an artistic record LMAO! Maybe, for MJ and that's not a good thing. | |
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 at insecure Janet fans.
Who's the one in a Janet thread trying to start shit? Don't worry, I'll wait... | |
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SEANMAN said: chrisslope9 said: Thank you. And again, I'm just stating the truth. Janet minus Jimmy and Terry gives Janet her sisters career. It's so damn clear . She can barely sing, she can't play a note, she can't write , ect. Jimmy and Terry did all the work. They are the talents. Why even come into a Janet thread when, a) you are obviously not a fan and, b), you are so ASTOUNDINGLY ingnorant to the facts that it's just short of comical? She has written or co-written most of her material since Control. She plays keyboards. She can act. She is one hell of a dancer and performer. NONE of these things Latoya can do, nor has she done. If I were you, I would go back and slap the person who gave you your supposed Janet "facts," because they're making you look pretty foolish on here. And, like midi said, she MADE Jimmy and Terry, as they did her. It was and is a partnership. No, my friend. What is clear is that you know nothing about what Janet can do. And to that, I will say as the French say...fermez la bouche! Oh, and to further refute your claims that she "can't play a note..." p.s.--it was Jimmy who flubbed the change over *her credits on the Control album: Janet Jackson – keyboards, vocals, background vocals, bells Listen to what she says from 1:01-1:13... Crow doesn't taste too good, now, does it? [Edited 3/2/10 5:01am] Janet Jackson look so cute and sexy on Soul Train right there I just love her...  will ALWAYS think of  like a "ACT OF GOD"! N another realm. mean of all people who might of been aliens or angels.if found out that wasn't of this earth, would not have been that surprised. R.I.P. |
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sleepyq said: bboy87 said: but Dangerous sounds nothing like RN i wont answer u till u answer my post in the other thread.
i can debate on music, but not until i get my answer... It's called - denial. Everyone knows that Dangerous is just a Pt. 2 to Rhythm Nation. MJ even wanted to work with Jimmy & Terry on the Dangerous album but they told him to moonwalk on out the door. | |
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trueiopian said: seeingvoices12 said: Jay, Don’t take the post seriously... And Notice That I didn't bring MJ to the discussion, the insecure Janet fans did. That proved what I have been saying here, . Dangerous is an artistic record, There is no comparsion. Who's the one in a JANET thread?
Dangerous isn't an artistic record LMAO! Maybe, for MJ and that's not a good thing. 1-I'm here because I have the right to check any thread at any time I want. 2- I’m a Janet Jackson fan, I could careless if you believe me , I'm a fan and I could criticize like I want... 3- The main reason: I re-posted on here because of Midicover's continuous insults, Writing “hearingvoices” multiple times and I wanted to respond, its so sad that you are not capable to see that…but again, that’s nothing new, I expected that. MICHAEL JACKSON
R.I.P مايكل جاكسون للأبد 1958 | |
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seeingvoices, I come in a peace  
-Changing topic-  | |
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midiscover said: seeingvoices, I come in a peace
-Changing topic- Of course ...Peace  MICHAEL JACKSON
R.I.P مايكل جاكسون للأبد 1958 | |
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seeingvoices12 said: midiscover said: seeingvoices, I come in a peace
-Changing topic- Of course ...Peace She always seemed so confident in this period with the Janet Album & tour & interviews more so than any other period. Besides now will ALWAYS think of like a "ACT OF GOD"! N another realm. mean of all people who might of been aliens or angels.if found out that wasn't of this earth, would not have been that surprised. R.I.P. |
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KCOOLMUZIQ said: seeingvoices12 said: Of course ...Peace She always seemed so confident in this period with the Janet Album & tour & interviews more so than any other period. Besides now Oddly, she was very depressed around this time. You can't see it on here but she was. Janet had a hard time accepting her success and herself. She said it in her later interviews. | |
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midiscover said: KCOOLMUZIQ said: She always seemed so confident in this period with the Janet Album & tour & interviews more so than any other period. Besides now Oddly, she was very depressed around this time. You can't see it on here but she was. Janet had a hard time accepting her success and herself. She said it in her later interviews. No I totally disagree with U on this. She was depressed in her Velvet Rope period. That is when her breakdown happen. This period she was more on top of the world. Her & Rene were doing good. Velvet Rope is when her relationship fell apart and she start realizing she was being used and betrayed. Her "relationship" with Tina Landon was ending also... will ALWAYS think of like a "ACT OF GOD"! N another realm. mean of all people who might of been aliens or angels.if found out that wasn't of this earth, would not have been that surprised. R.I.P. |
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KCOOLMUZIQ said: midiscover said: Oddly, she was very depressed around this time. You can't see it on here but she was. Janet had a hard time accepting her success and herself. She said it in her later interviews. No I totally disagree with U on this. She was depressed in her Velvet Rope period. That is when her breakdown happen. This period she was more on top of the world. Her & Rene were doing good. Velvet Rope is when her relationship fell apart and she start realizing she was being used and betrayed. Her "relationship" with Tina Landon was ending also... Her depression during the janet. era is what resulted in The Velvet Rope and yes she was still depressed in the Velvet Rope era but it wasn't as bad as it was in the janet. era. I'm talking about the later part of the janet. era not the beginning. At the time she said she was recapping her life and it felt like all the depression hit a new low because she was always depressed but would push it aside and hide it. I'll post the interview if I find it but Janet talks about being on the last leg of her tour and being very depressed and lonely. She said she wrote many songs during that time period and that's how we got the Velvet Rope. Oh and Janet's relationship was falling apart in the janet. era as well. Yes, she was on top of the world but for some reason she felt guilty for all her success. | |
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midiscover said: sleepyq said: Uuuh... I dont think Janet is more talented than MJ! She had better routines, but... come on now!
But her work is far, far superior, its not even funny. Michael could never come up with something as brilliant as RN1814. Thats why he was so mad, talkin about "Janet got it from me." He was mad he dint think of it first!
Dangerous was a RN1814 attempt, but he failed to eclipse Janet's landmark record. Janet left him in the dust witth the 3-4 punch of janet, TVR, A4U, and DJ. While he wass till tryna be Peter Pan at 40 YO, she was developing as an artist and exploring new subject matter, sounds, and imagery. And of course, Janet has never created anything as shitastic as Invisible.
Michael may be more talented, but that doesn't mean he made the best music or videos. Whats the use of talent when u cant utililize it? Janet > Michael End of. I agree, with you to an extent. I still think Janet is far more talented. She can do just about everything. OMG you two are HILARIOUS  "we make our heroes in America only to destroy them" | |
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midiscover said: KCOOLMUZIQ said: No I totally disagree with U on this. She was depressed in her Velvet Rope period. That is when her breakdown happen. This period she was more on top of the world. Her & Rene were doing good. Velvet Rope is when her relationship fell apart and she start realizing she was being used and betrayed. Her "relationship" with Tina Landon was ending also... Her depression during the janet. era is what resulted in The Velvet Rope and yes she was still depressed in the Velvet Rope era but it wasn't as bad as it was in the janet. era. I'm talking about the later part of the janet. era not the beginning. At the time she said she was recapping her life and it felt like all the depression hit a new low because she was always depressed but would push it aside and hide it. I'll post the interview if I find it but Janet talks about being on the last leg of her tour and being very depressed and lonely. She said she wrote many songs during that time period and that's how we got the Velvet Rope. Oh and Janet's relationship was falling apart in the janet. era as well. Yes, she was on top of the world but for some reason she felt guilty for all her success.  "We may deify or demonize them but not ignore them. And we call them genius, because they are the people who change the world." |
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midiscover said: LOL at platinum. You mean gold and just gold. What certifications were Jimmy & Terry getting when they worked with Janet? They were receiving platinum, multi platinum, triple platinum and on! janet.? Rhythm Nation? All for You? I can go on! All major successes. They should be thanking Janet for providing her amazing talent so they can get that check in the mail and put food on their tables.
Listen, I get it...You are upset as a hardcore Janet fan that there has been a lot of talk over the years about Janet being a studio puppet...And for the most part, this talk has been overblown and unfair to Janet...She deserves credit for breaking free from the Jackson clan and doing her own thing...She had a vision and she was strong enough to go through with it.... But when you talk about Jam & Lewis in such a disrespectful tone you are only giving Janet fans a bad name... Everyone in the music business knew that before Control, Janet couldn't buy a hit...Her first two albums simply flopped...There's no other way to say it...So where was Jam & Lewis before Janet?...They were producing gold albums and a few platinum singles (something Janet couldn't even buy early on)for the likes of the SOS Band, Alexander O'Neal, Cheryl Lynn, Cherelle, ect....You see, in the early to mid '80s R&B was still treated in a segregated manner...The SOS Band was able to average over 700,000-800, 000 per album without the help of pop/rock radio...They (and all other R&B acts) were not getting play on MTV...At all...So it was par for the course for R&B acts--not named Michael Jackson--to go gold or nearly platinum...This was viewed as immense success...Look it up...It's all there... Again, maybe you are too young to remember (or maybe not....), but Janet wasn't having true success on the pop OR R&B charts before she worked with Jam & Lewis...In fact, she was having ZERO success... midiscover said: Janet would still be in the industry where she belongs. BTW- where's Jimmy & Terry NOW!?! Probably, begging Janet to work with them again. I'm just sayin.
Again, you are sounding awfully STAN-ish right now...I'm sure the guys have been doing OK working with acts like Usher, Mary J. Blige, and Heather Headley on albums that have performed better than Janet's last few projects...Now if anyone tries to say that Jam and Lewis' work with Janet did not expose the guys to a wider audience, then they are lying like hell...But the truth is, Jam & Lewis did the same for Janet...Because the last time I checked "Dream Street" was dead on arrival....While JJ was struggling to even sell over 200, 000 copies, Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis were respected throughout the industry as THE go-to R&B producers...Janet, meanwhile was known as MJ's little sister.... Bottom line: Jam & Lewis were no mere scrubs before their work with Janet...The only people that would think like that is A) People whose understanding of music history doesn't go past the '90s...B) Defensive hardcore Janet fans who have a legitimate beef with the constant dogging of Janet, but have gone the wrong route with expressing their beef..or C) Someone who has no idea what they are talking about.... [Edited 3/2/10 23:01pm] | |
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murph said: midiscover said: LOL at platinum. You mean gold and just gold. What certifications were Jimmy & Terry getting when they worked with Janet? They were receiving platinum, multi platinum, triple platinum and on! janet.? Rhythm Nation? All for You? I can go on! All major successes. They should be thanking Janet for providing her amazing talent so they can get that check in the mail and put food on their tables.
Listen, I get it...You are upset as a hardcore Janet fan that there has been a lot of talk over the years about Janet being a studio puppet...And for the most part, this talk has been overblown and unfair to Janet...She deserves credit for breaking free from the Jackson clan and doing her own thing...She had a vision and she was strong enough to go through with it.... But when you talk about Jam & Lewis in such a disrespectful tone you are only giving Janet fans a bad name... Everyone in the music business knew that before Control, Janet couldn't buy a hit...Her first two albums simply flopped...There's no other way to say it...So where was Jam & Lewis before Janet?...They were producing gold albums and a few platinum singles (something Janet couldn't even buy early on)for the likes of the SOS Band, Alexander O'Neal, Cheryl Lynn, Cherelle, ect....You see, in the early to mid '80s R&B was still treated in a segregated manner...The SOS Band was able to average over 700,000-800, 000 per album copy without the help of pop/rock radio...They (and all other R&B acts) were not getting play on MTV...At all...So it was par for the course for R&B acts--not named Michael Jackson--to go gold or nearly platinum...This was viewed as immense success...Look it up...It's all there... Again, maybe you are too young to remember (or maybe not....), but Janet wasn't having true success on the pop OR R&B charts before she worked with Jam & Lewis...In fact, she was having ZERO success... midiscover said: Janet would still be in the industry where she belongs. BTW- where's Jimmy & Terry NOW!?! Probably, begging Janet to work with them again. I'm just sayin.
Again, you are sounding awfully STAN-ish right now...I'm sure the guys have been doing OK working with acts like Usher, Mary J. Blige, and Heather Headley on albums that have performed better than Janet's last few projects...Now if anyone tries to say that Jam and Lewis' work with Janet did not expose the guys to a wider audience, then they are lying like hell...But the truth is, Jam & Lewis did the same for Janet...Because the last time I checked "Dream Street" was dead on arrival.... Bottom line: Jam & Lewis were no mere scrubs before their work with Janet...The only people that would think like that is A) People whose understanding of music history doesn't go past the '90s...B) Defensive hardcore Janet fans who have a legitimate beef with the constant dogging of Janet, but have gone the wrong route with expressing their beef..or C) Someone who has no idea what they are talking about.... Lol and you did all that!? Um I love Jimmy & Terry as much the next person but some people LOVE to over hype them like no other. I don't know if its because they're males and Janet's a female or whatever! and I've never heard that Janet was a studio puppet. But nice try! Jimmy & Terry didn't have no platinum singles before they worked with Janet. Gold singles? Flop. Janet was still 16-18 years old and was doing generic music under her fathers orders. She didn't find her image and niche yet. Until she broke free from his eye. Ironically, Jimmy & Terry didn't find their's either and were working with flop R&B artists and strictly just that. Not pop. Just elevator R&B music. Both found each other and made history. But where's Jimmy & Terry NOW!? You never answered that. All you did was mention that they worked Usher (back in 2004) and someone else but what about N O W. 2010!? I know they worked with Ledisi? flop. Chaka Khan? f l o p. Ruben Studdard!? Super-size flop. KI!! and you really tried the hell out of "it did better than Janet's album" last time I checked Miss Usher didn't have a set of tits and wasn't exposed upon millions and millions of people around the world. Understand that Janet opened doors for Jimmy & Terry. Understand that if Janet didn't work with Jimmy & Terry they would be nowhere. Well, unless you consider the R&B community somewhere. Understand that when the names "Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis" the first person that comes to mind is Janet. Never the other way around. Understand that Janet is doing well without Jimmy & Terry. I can't say the same the other way around. Understand that Janet is the reason why they are held to such iconic status. and I'm done. [Edited 3/2/10 23:07pm] | |
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midiscover said: Understand that if Janet didn't work with Jimmy & Terry they would be nowhere. Well, unless you consider the R&B community somewhere. You've completely showed your hand with this ^^^^^line...I think I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt...But I can see that your ignorance knows no bounds.... | |
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murph said: midiscover said: Understand that if Janet didn't work with Jimmy & Terry they would be nowhere. Well, unless you consider the R&B community somewhere. You've completely showed your hand with this ^^^^^line...I think I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt...But I can see that your ignorance knows no bounds.... Pop = wider audience. Deal. | |
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midiscover said: murph said: You've completely showed your hand with this ^^^^^line...I think I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt...But I can see that your ignorance knows no bounds.... Pop = wider audience. Deal. Nah,,you are truly ignorant and have no context for what you are talking about.....You overlook what was happening in the early to mid '80s in terms of the music segregation on radio and MTV..You characterized producing gold albums (which Jam & Lewis were doing...) in the early '80s a "flop" when back then going gold was looked at as a true barometer for success....I'm willing to bet that you wasn't old enough to remember the '80s... On the real, it doesn't matter why Janet couldn't even sale 200, 000 copies of any of her solo albums before Control...The fact of the matter is Jam & Lewis were known hit makers in the industry...They had hits and Janet did not... The fact that they crossed over with JJ was HUGE and propelled their legacy to new heights..But if I let you tell it, those guys were struggling songwriters/producers before they ever hooked up with Janet...lol...When in fact, it was the other way around... As for my puppet statement, there have been a lot of folks throughout the industry and critics that have mentioned her being a studio puppet...In fact I have interviewed some of these folks over the years...Janet had a lot of her songs written for her...She co-wrote a lot of songs with Jam & Lewis as well as her ex husband...No one except a hardcore Janet fan would ever think of janet as a singer-songwriter...She was always looked at as a strong entertainer who made some stellar albums... The beauty of Janet is she was able to bust through such criticism and make some landmark albums with the help of Jam & Lewis...She staked her claim and had success on her own terms...She proved that not everyone has to shoot for the "singer-songwriter" angle...You can be content with who you are... But again, now that I know the glasses that you are looking through, your puzzling (and at times offensive) statements make a lot of sense now... | |
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murph said: midiscover said: Pop = wider audience. Deal. Nah,,you are truly ignorant and have no context for what you are talking about.....You overlook what was happening in the early to mid '80s in terms of the music segregation on radio and MTV..You characterized producing gold albums (which Jam & Lewis were doing...) in the early '80s a "flop" when back then going gold was looked at as a true barometer for success....I'm willing to bet that you wasn't old enough to remember the '80s... On the real, it doesn't matter why Janet couldn't even sale 200, 000 copies of any of her solo albums before Control...The fact of the matter is Jam & Lewis were known hit makers in the industry...They had hits and Janet did not... The fact that they crossed over with JJ was HUGE and propelled their legacy to new heights..But if I let you tell it, those guys were struggling songwriters/producers before they ever hooked up with Janet...lol...When in fact, it was the other way around... As for my puppet statement, there have been a lot of folks throughout the industry and critics that have mentioned her being a studio puppet...In fact I have interviewed some of these folks over the years...Janet had a lot of her songs written for her...She co-wrote a lot of songs with Jam & Lewis as well as her ex husband...No one except a hardcore Janet fan would ever think of janet as a singer-songwriter...She was always looked at as a strong entertainer who made some stellar albums... The beauty of Janet is she was able to bust through such criticism and make some landmark albums with the help of Jam & Lewis...She staked her claim and had success on her own terms...She proved that not everyone has to shoot for the "singer-songwriter" angle...You can be content with who you are... But again, now that I know the glasses that you are looking through, your puzzling (and at times offensive) statements make a lot of sense now... This whole "old enough to remember.." argument is invalid and never works. Just lettin' you know. Are you really insisting that these Gold albums compared to the 2x,3x, 8x,etc. platinum albums they produced with Janet is good. Jimmy Jam said that he and Terry Lewis weren't on Quincy Jones status before they met Janet. Straight from the horses mouth! So he would disagree with you for making them out to be some groundbreaking producers before they met Janet. Firstly, they did iconic shit with Janet not with Alexander and those other artists you mentioned. You can get all sensitive and throw shade all you want but the simple fact is that Jimmy & Terry were doing your standard R&B before they met Janet. Yes, Janet wasn't doing well. As I said already she didn't find herself yet. Didn't have ANY artistic freedom of her own work. Now you're just shit talking. Janet was this entertainer with stellar albums. Blah, blah, blah BULL. She was always thought out to be the great songwriter that she is. Deal. Her ex-husband helped her on her TVR and that's all. I see that you're just one of those tired people (broken record, much?) that read what critics have to say and mirror it. Lame. [Edited 3/2/10 23:43pm] | |
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midiscover said: Are you really insisting that these Gold albums compared to the 2x,3x, 8x,etc. platinum albums they produced with Janet
No...I am insisting that from the '70s to '86 going gold was still looked at as true success (this was after gold certification meant 1 million in sales) given that just two years previously, the music industry was on the verge of EXTINCTION...Hence the old stories of how Thriller literally saved the music industry (albums were at a sales low in the early '80s..Few acts were even going GOLD...)....Do a Google search for it...U may be surprised at what you will find... midiscover said: Jimmy Jam said that he and Terry Lewis weren't on Quincy Jones status before they met Janet
Now you are just grasping for air...Who ever said they were on Q's level back then?....Again, I'm shocked at your puzzling reasoning...Jam & Lewis wasn't on the level of the most successful producer of the '80s pre-Janet, so that means they were struggling????...Come on now...That's just silly... midiscover said: Straight from the horses mouth! So he would disagree with you for making them out to be some groundbreaking producers before they met Janet
Ah...I see your angle...You are putting words into my mouth...That's what people do when they are on losing ground...The word "groundbreaking" never came from my mouth or hands...You have to do better than that... midiscover said: Firstly, they did iconic shit with Janet not with Alexander and those other artists you mentioned. You can get all sensitive and throw shade all you want but the simple fact is that Jimmy & Terry were doing your standard R&B before they met Janet. Yes, Janet wasn't doing well. As I said already she didn't find herself yet. Didn't have ANY artistic freedom of her own work. Now you're just shit talking. Janet was this entertainer with stellar albums. Blah, blah, blah BULL. She was always thought out to be the great songwriter that she is. Deal. Her ex-husband helped her on her TVR and that's all. I see that you're just one of those tired people (broken record, much?) that read what critics have to say and mirror it. Lame.
I didn't read the rest because I see that I'm dealing with a hardcore JJ fan who has no interest in understanding history...The fact that you apply what has been going on in the music business over the last decade or so with what was happening in the early '80s speaks volumes...But now I'm beginning to see that I may have been too hard on you given your lack of time on this earth and the fact that you may not be up on things.....All I have to say is do a little research about what was going on in the early '80s music scene, SALES WISE and then you will understand why Jam & Lewis going gold with R&B acts was viewed as a major success...This was not the SoundScan era...This was a time when labels were scared that the music business was on its way out...I'm sure once you research this info, you will become illuminated about what Jam & lewis were doing pre-Janet... You can start with this passage: http://www.encyclopedia.c...02208.html "Growth of the industry continued until the recession of the early 1980s when the demand for music fell. Many in the industry at this time believed that the availability of home cassette recorders was responsible for much of the loss in sales and there were attempts to tax blank recording cassette tapes. Yet, some analysts suggest that the decline was predominantly related to the poor quality of the recordings, inferior software, the global recession, and a shortage of creative work." Peace, homie... [Edited 3/3/10 0:44am] | |
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murph said: No...I am insisting that from the '70s to '86 going gold was still looked at as true success (this was after gold certification meant 1 million in sales) given that just two years previously, the music industry was on the verge of EXTINCTION...Hence the old stories of how Thriller literally saved the music industry (albums were at a sales low in the early '80s..Few acts were even going GOLD...)....Do a Google search for it...U may be surprised at what you will find... Now you are just grasping for air...Who ever said they were on Q's level back then?....Again, I'm shocked at your puzzling reasoning...Jam & Lewis wasn't on the level of the most successful producer of the '80s pre-Janet, so that means they were struggling????...Come on now...That's just silly... Ah...I see your angle...You are putting words into my mouth...That's what people do when they are on losing ground...The word "groundbreaking" never came from my mouth or hands...You have to do better than that... I didn't read the rest because I see that I'm dealing with a hardcore JJ fan who has no interest in understanding history...The fact that you apply what has been going on in the music business over the last decade or so with what was happening in the early '80s speaks volumes...But now I'm beginning to see that I may have been too hard on you given your lack of time on this earth and the fact that you may not be up on things.....All I have to say is do a little research about what was going on in the early '80s music scene, SALES WISE and then you will understand why Jam & Lewis going gold with R&B acts was viewed as a major success...This was not the SoundScan era...This was a time when labels were scared that the music business was on its way out...I'm sure once you research this info, you will become illuminated about what Jam & lewis were doing pre-Janet... Peace, homie... [Edited 3/3/10 0:22am] So you have a new argument - that albums weren't selling. Can you explain Control? What about AC/DC, GNR, Bruce Springsteen, Prince, etc.!? Did I ever say "struggling"? You didn't have to say it, hun. It's all there. Jimmy Jam is the one that made it out to be that he and Terry weren't successful. I'm just the messenger. Their story starts off with working with Prince and jumps right to their with Janet - at least that's how the public says it. I'm sure you read it. | |
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midiscover said: murph said: No...I am insisting that from the '70s to '86 going gold was still looked at as true success (this was after gold certification meant 1 million in sales) given that just two years previously, the music industry was on the verge of EXTINCTION...Hence the old stories of how Thriller literally saved the music industry (albums were at a sales low in the early '80s..Few acts were even going GOLD...)....Do a Google search for it...U may be surprised at what you will find... Now you are just grasping for air...Who ever said they were on Q's level back then?....Again, I'm shocked at your puzzling reasoning...Jam & Lewis wasn't on the level of the most successful producer of the '80s pre-Janet, so that means they were struggling????...Come on now...That's just silly... Ah...I see your angle...You are putting words into my mouth...That's what people do when they are on losing ground...The word "groundbreaking" never came from my mouth or hands...You have to do better than that... I didn't read the rest because I see that I'm dealing with a hardcore JJ fan who has no interest in understanding history...The fact that you apply what has been going on in the music business over the last decade or so with what was happening in the early '80s speaks volumes...But now I'm beginning to see that I may have been too hard on you given your lack of time on this earth and the fact that you may not be up on things.....All I have to say is do a little research about what was going on in the early '80s music scene, SALES WISE and then you will understand why Jam & Lewis going gold with R&B acts was viewed as a major success...This was not the SoundScan era...This was a time when labels were scared that the music business was on its way out...I'm sure once you research this info, you will become illuminated about what Jam & lewis were doing pre-Janet... Peace, homie... [Edited 3/3/10 0:22am] So you have a new argument - that albums weren't selling. Can you explain Control? What about AC/DC, GNR, Bruce Springsteen, Prince, etc.!? Did I ever say "struggling"? You didn't have to say it, hun. It's all there. Jimmy Jam is the one that made it out to be that he and Terry weren't successful. I'm just the messenger. Their story starts off with working with Prince and jumps right to their with Janet - at least that's how the public says it. I'm sure you read it. I mentioned that early only a few acts were even selling albums in the early '80s...I mentioned that Thriller changed all that (1982) opening the floodgates (I didn't think I had to name check Prince, Bruce and the like since common sense would tell you that A)their biggest album's, sales wise, both followed the explosion of Thriller and MTV and B) those projects were not looked at as R&B albums....)... I mentioned the segregation policies of the music business as it pertained to radio/MTV/R&B) was still happening after the success of Thriller and in the mid '80s..You just didn't want to read it (or understand it) for whatever reason...Then you started placing words in my mouth to shield the fact that you are making some puzzling comments... As for Jimmy's comments that they were not superstar producers pre-Control, this hardly means that they were struggling (or not successful...which was my whole point to begin with...They were successful before Janet...Janet was not...Just not at the levels you want them to be...)....You took what you wanted out of his statement (Them measuring themselves against Q does not mean they lacked success pre-Control...Common sense will tell you that since they were big enough for Janet to want to work with them in the first place)...What it really comes down to is you have no idea what you are talking about...And again, I understand why...You have to do some research on the matter and then you'll get an idea about some of the things I'm trying to convey...Once you do that then we can finish our back and forth...Because it's hard trying to have a serious discussion with someone who doesn't have context of what was going on back then... Be good and get back to me when you check out some of the things I've said... Peace... [Edited 3/3/10 1:23am] | |
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murph said: midiscover said: So you have a new argument - that albums weren't selling. Can you explain Control? What about AC/DC, GNR, Bruce Springsteen, Prince, etc.!? Did I ever say "struggling"? You didn't have to say it, hun. It's all there. Jimmy Jam is the one that made it out to be that he and Terry weren't successful. I'm just the messenger. Their story starts off with working with Prince and jumps right to their with Janet - at least that's how the public says it. I'm sure you read it. I mentioned that early only a few acts were even selling albums in the early '80s...I mentioned that Thriller changed all that (1982) opening the floodgates (I didn't think I had to name check Prince, Bruce and the like since common sense would tell you that A)their biggest album's, sales wise, both followed the explosion of Thriller and MTV and B) those projects were not looked at as R&B albums....)... I mentioned the segregation policies of the music business as it pertained to radio/MTV/R&B) was still happening after the success of Thriller and in the mid '80s..You just didn't want to read it (or understand it) for whatever reason...Then you started placing words in my mouth to shield the fact that you are making some puzzling comments... As for Jimmy's comments that they were not superstar producers pre-Control, this hardly means that they were struggling (or not successful...which was my whole point to begin with...They were successful before Janet...Janet was not...Just not at the levels you want them to be...)....You took what you wanted out of his statement (Them measuring themselves against Q does not mean they lacked success pre-Control...Common sense will tell you that since they were big enough for Janet to want to work with them in the first place)...What it really comes down to is you have no idea what you are talking about...And again, I understand why...You have to do some research on the matter and then you'll get an idea about some of the things I'm trying to convey...Once you do that then we can finish our back and forth...Because it's hard trying to have a serious discussion with someone who doesn't have context of what was going on back then... Be good and get back to me when you check out some of the things I've said... Peace... [Edited 3/3/10 1:23am] No, hunny - listen All you're doing now is coming up with excuses as to why these acts J & L worked with flopped - hard. Janet's Control album went 6x platinum in the states back in '87. Now tell me why SOS band's didn't? Released the same year, same producers. Is it because they're black? R&B?
How are you going to be so hypocritical and say "don't put words and my mouth ..." and yet you're doing this right now. When did I say struggle? I never did. You're interpreting that quote Jimmy made to the best of your ability and failing. If Jimmy & Terry were successful before Janet, like you're claiming why did Jimmy say opposite? As we all know Quincy was a huge success in the 80's. So... Whatchu gotta say!  | |
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midiscover said: sleepyq said: Uuuh... I dont think Janet is more talented than MJ! She had better routines, but... come on now!
But her work is far, far superior, its not even funny. Michael could never come up with something as brilliant as RN1814. Thats why he was so mad, talkin about "Janet got it from me." He was mad he dint think of it first!
Dangerous was a RN1814 attempt, but he failed to eclipse Janet's landmark record. Janet left him in the dust witth the 3-4 punch of janet, TVR, A4U, and DJ. While he wass till tryna be Peter Pan at 40 YO, she was developing as an artist and exploring new subject matter, sounds, and imagery. And of course, Janet has never created anything as shitastic as Invisible.
Michael may be more talented, but that doesn't mean he made the best music or videos. Whats the use of talent when u cant utililize it? Janet > Michael End of. I agree, with you to an extent. I still think Janet is far more talented. She can do just about everything. janet ain't as talented as MJ was by a mile. Her voice is weak and she was practically taught to dance by Paula Abdul. I've seen Janet dance before Paula Abdul got hold of her and I wasn't impressed!! Having said that I do believe some of her albums were better produced than MJ latter stuff. MJ fell down when he tried to be all things to all people, his sound waa all over the place on those latter albums. Janet never tried to do that, her music was more focus and her songs were actually better in some cases. The JANET album, imo has albums like BAD, DANGEROUS and HISTORY beat. Having said that I do believe without her producers and her family name she wouldn't achieve the success she reached. Apparently Jimmy Jam & Lewis only wanted to work with her initially because she was a Jackson! | |
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mimi07 said: midiscover said: I agree, with you to an extent. I still think Janet is far more talented. She can do just about everything. OMG you two are HILARIOUS "You put water into a cup, it becomes the cup...Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend." - Bruce Lee
"Water can nourish me, but water can also carry me. Water has magic laws." - JCVD | |
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