I have a big question and would like an accurate answer ... what exactly does a producer do and whats the differnece between a producer and a composer?

Some say they make beats but its all a bit vague ..... I ask this cause there are many single minded idiots on the org that belittle some artists like the great Michael Jackson and say that his great work is all due to Quincy Jones.... not that song writing and singing abilities have anything to do with great music!!!!!

I look forward to hearing what others have to say.

Seems the word "composer" is rather obvious.

A producer does many things. They push the artist to get the best performance vocally, instrumentally, lyrically, etc that is possible. Maybe even what the artist didn't think was possible. They're also there to hone in on a sound, a riff, a groove, and tailor it for a song. Great examples are from Metallica's Black Album, and Def Leppard's Hysteria album. Both were HUGE albums, and the main reason was the producers. Robert "Mutt" Lange took Def Leppard's attempt to self-produce (which was rather early in their career still), and took shoddy vocal takes and weak guitar riffs, and made them doing it over and over and over, and told them to reach higher, until a near perfect rock album was made.

Metallica's songs like "Enter Sandman" were quite different. The main guitar riff was a longer groove, and Bob Rock shortened it to the catchy, rockin' riff we know it to be.

They are also there to do things like adjust levels, add or remove instruments in a mix that are or aren't working. If they see they need a fill somewhere, or a little extra something here and there (the "tweaking" or "polishing" process, as it's described sometimes), then they get it done.

Frankly, often times they also judge a song's worth to end up on an album. Quincy Jones sat w/ MJ and decided on the songs he felt would work for Thriller, and those that wouldn't. At first take, Thriller sounded horrible. The mixes were brash, and uninspired. Q and MJ sat and reworked the songs, taking a couple of days per song, remixed them, adjusted whatever needed to be adjusted, and voila...it's the Thriller we know today.

It's often been said that Prince needs an outside producer to work with him. It's not that Prince can't handle the above mentioned things himself, because obviously he can. But a producer is there to not only fit the genre of music being made, but to give an unbiased opinion, and sometimes a heavy hand or a final word, to what is going on. Sure Prince and write, and mix a song, but there are times when Prince needs to be reeled in, or let loose. There are times a producer should have said, "We need live drums in this. Get on the drum kit and play the song through." If someone had done that for Prince during NewPowerSoul, parts of Emancipation, and other albums, the outcome on the charts, as well as the opinions of fans, could have been dramatically different.

Of course, a producer also coats, soothes, and relieves. Tension, angst, heartbreak, etc. The producer tries their best to keep things cohesive, communication open, helping the artist channel their emotions into the song. Go listen to "The Lady In My Life" from MJ. Q pulled that emotional performance out of him. I think it's the same old story about Q putting MJ into a dark room and telling him to beg for it. MJ did just that, and we hear the awesome results on the track.

You know how a parent oversees a kid making cookies? The kid sort of knows what it takes, but the parent is there to direct each ingredient into the bowl, making sure the right stuff gets in and the wrong stuff stays out, oversees and helps the mixing and baking process, and everyone enjoys the fruit of the labor in the end.

If you watched "This Is It", the way MJ was telling the band how the song should be played and how the harmonies should sound is a perfect example of what a producer does.

seems like beat makers are called producers from the late 80s to now. say quincy jones to dr dre or kanye west will.i.am etc . the later are beat makers

motownlover said:

I wouldn't put Dre in the same category as Kanye or Will. I say that only because Dre was writing and producing trax LONG before they came around. He actually did Michelle's debut album and it has some excellent trax and vocal production.

Same thing for the trax he's done for other singers.

RnBAmbassador said:

That's true. Making a beat is something almost anyone can do. It's all Run DMC did - Rap over samples of Aerosmith, Chic, or whoever. And it's art form, but it's not really being a "producer". 'Production' really covers every little nuance on an album. Q and George Martin truly hold that title. What would The Beatles have been without George? Well who knows. Iron sharpens iron. Who knows what came of the Beatles catalog had Martin not been there. One thing effects another - it's a chain link. Maybe if Martin hadn't of been there and said "purple onion" on one day, then one of the fab 4 might not have thought of something that made them think of something else that made them write "Love Me Do". Point being that these guys have made their mark by working w/ good artists and helping the artist hone their craft to the point of near perfection.

I'm not really impressed when I see Pharrell or whoever on a track. Big deal. I like certain remixers like David Morales or Frankie Knuckles, but they know their place in music. They're DJ's, remixers, etc. "Additional Production" means they put some other shit on the record like a loop, a sample, a keyboard, a drum machine, sampled some vocals in an echoey loop, etc. That's being a great remixer, or beat maker, but far from being a producer.

Nothing from Kanye, will.i.am or any of those guys can ever hold a fucking candle to stuff Quincy Jones or Bob Rock or Robert Mutt Lange or George Martin etc have done.

ernestsewell said:

Run DMC didn't really do a lot of samples early in their career. Their first few albums were the mastermind of Jam Master Jay.

BTW, I don't think Run ever sampled Chic or Aerosmith. "Walk This Way" is considered a remake.

I would liken them to film directors.

Film directors don't necessarily write a script, act, set up cameras, create special effects, etc, but the overall vision for the final product is under their control. They need to know how to achieve something, which may mean hiring the right person--ie to play violin or to create an alien.

Likewise, a band could be analogous to the writers & actors in a film. They may come up with the material and be the performers, but unless they are the producers, they don't direct the process of achieving a certain sound.

Record producers & film directors have to see the strengths & weaknesses of their material and their performers and to know how to separate the two.

A producer has to walk a fine line just like a film director, because they need to be able to control primadonna superstars but still keep them happy enough to get them to perform at their best.

Producer is a glorified title, it always has been. Producers were originally businessman in charge of overlooking the budget for the project, bringing in talent and songs, etc.

Back then it was more of a team concept, the singer/songwriter, the engineer, the arranger, the band, etc. Nowadays, due to not just technology, but ego and the bottom line, there is a new type of producer who write and make beats, but they still need engineers because they don't know the nuts and bolts of a sound board. Folks found out who got paid first and most, so they became producers and songwriters even though they're not good at it.

Quincy Jones was a producer but he was an arranger, much is more important because he knew composition and musicial arrangement.

But he was not a songwriter, those are the people who create the song, write the lyrics and has the melody in their head but they probably can't read music so they turned to the arranger and musicians they do read music.

Quincy Jones had lots of great songwriters to work with, he knew how to bring the songs to life.
[Edited 1/4/10 12:04pm]

daPrettyman said:

True, but I meant that "Walk This Way" was a popular record in the 'hood that wannabe DJ's used to spin and folks would freestyle over. It was such a funky beat that it was very popular for that reason. In a way, I was surprised when DMC got with Aerosmith to redo that record. It seemed like not only a natural progression, but a to the past, and the beginnings of rap.

Actually I give credit to Jam Master Jay and Rick Rubin for bringing Aerosmith to do "Walk This Way". Both Run and DMC thought the both of them were nuts for doing that but Jay eventually convinced them that it would give them a pop hit and sure enough it did. It was in the way in how it was manufactured. Together Run DMC and Aerosmith brought "Walk This Way" to not only white listeners but black listeners too.

BlaqueKnight said:

Sean Combs was such a manbitch for sending one of his new acts to fetch him a cheesecake. Shameful!

Sean Combs is not a producer, he's a credit stealer. Chucky Thompson produced all the artists Sean always been credited with producing.

Timmy84 said:

Is Chuck still working?

A producer's role is variable. You can be like Prince and do it all except lead vocals (when he produces for other artists), musically direct the act (what would be seen as the typical producer role) or just do fuck all and get others to do the work. The third seems to be the most common these days. Any twat with a MPC is a producer these days, apparently.

Mong said:

CORRECTION: Anyone with a desktop, laptop, OR netbook computer can be a music producer.

The 2010's will be THE decade where an artist (and I say "artist" loosely) will have the first ever #1 hit on the Billboard Hot 100 Singles Charts (USA or UK) that was produced with a iPhone or a Blackberry mobile phone.
[Edited 1/4/10 14:59pm]

daPrettyman said:

Yeah he produced a track for Ledisi on her current album ("Forever Changes").

TonyVanDam said:

Tony, no man that's a beat maker. That's not the same thing dude.

Timmy84 said:

Try telling that to the first artist that makes a #1 hit on his/her iPhone. I'm telling you, the future of the music industry is good as screwed.

TonyVanDam said:

Well then they're stuck on stupid.

My generation might be called "The Stupid and the Lazy". I'm so not a part of that era lol

Timmy84 said:

yeah just because some producers are bad or don't contribute much artistically to a project doesn't mean that's true of them all.

Take Quincy Jones, he was able to make Off the Wall sound like Quincy Jones music as much as Michael Jackson music, even though he didn't play a single instrument or sing a note (as far as I know)

A producer like him has got to orchestrate a dozen or more musicians and make the whole thing pop off the speakers effortlessly, which he did numerous times.

NDRU said:

Q played trumpet but he had to stop following his two brain aneurysms in 1974. If he had played afterwards, he'd died and we wouldn't have gotten what we got in the late '70s and throughout the 1980s and we know MJ would've gone in a totally different direction (possibly a funkier direction who knows). I remember artists such as Marvin and 'em doing a benefit concert for Q to get well. They weren't sure if dude would still be here.

Timmy84 said:

right, I meant didn't play or sing on Off The Wall (or a bunch of other albums like The Dude) but they still sound like his work.

What a producer does might be kind of vague sometimes, but the end product is the answer. If a producer makes an album on an iPhone, then that will be their own crappy production style, right? Still a producer, just a bad one.

In the pop world the beatmaker these days equals the producers, because the singers themselves don't create the music. There are less and less "regular" producers these days, even bands like U2 enlisted Brian Eno and stuff to give them his sound.

NDRU said:

Quincy actually sang on "The Dude" and "Back On The Block". It was more of a rap though.

ernestsewell said:

Very well said.