She needs to make a cd where Jam & Lewis are not 'guest stars" but are the main (and only) creative force on the project with Janet. She needs to stop fuckin around. Nobody eventually gives a damn about no Dallas Austin, Dupree, Jenkins, Darkchild, or the nosy neighbor Mrs. Gladys Kravitz across the street producing or writing with her. The fans were raised on Janet with Jimmy and Terry period.

xlr8r said:

You also can't keep people in a box forever. Jimmy and Terry worked on All For You, but that album lacked a lot of the originality and trend-setting sounds that previous albums had. Of course she also started to make more slow songs, and there was even more layering of oohhs and aaahs in the songs.

I don't mind the Rodney "Darkchild" Jerkins' production. It's much more listenable than Dupri's urban shit. 20 Y.O. suffered GREATLY from Dupri's input. A few of the songs are so rank, sparse, and horrible. However, it did have a few decent tunes on it as well.

Jerkins' has a definite sound, and most times it's very danceable. I don't need a "message" every time I hear a dance song. I just want to dance. Of course there are exceptions like "Together Again" or something. So if Darkchild makes a funky dance tune w/ Janet, more power to him. I'd like to see Jam/Lewis/Darkchild truly work TOGETHER and meld their techniques together.

ernestsewell said:

She had her time out of the box, now go back in lol. At least just for one more cd.

xlr8r said:

i agree, get back in the damn box janet

ernestsewell said:

IMO, All for You was innovative but very commercial. Jam & Lewis did their thing with her vocals To me Janet is more then just vocals she is all of the music from the production to the arrangements. So if the production is just a hit and miss then everything just snowballs. I'm hopeful that Darkchild will evolve more with Janet. He should step out of his box and embrace new styles the same way Jam & Lewis did working with Janet.

I am glad Janet is returning to her roots as far as production and label. I am looking forward to her new output which I am sure will be very personal. She has a lot to write and sing about. I am hoping for an introspective CD like The Velvet Rope (which is still my fav Janet cd)

totaldiva said:

yeah I was happy to hear that rodney jerkins was saying that janet is writing again and has a lot to say this time. Maybe this time she'll make the album she used to talk about making, about "racism and anger", who knows

lowkey said:

Get back in?

Please, walk out and stay out

trueiopian said:

No. Get back in for one more cd then we can get some quality back to basics material.

And get back in the box doesnt mean not to expand, not explore, or not experiment. I just want her to do that in the Jam and Lewis box. We tried others for quite a few albums now.

And what have Jam & Lewis done of merit or interest lately? They are long past their peak. She has good chemistry with Rodney and she should do an entire album of uptempos with him.

VoicesCarry said:

Nothing.

That doesn't mean they cant stir up each others juices once again and come out with something interesting or comfortable.

VoicesCarry said:

maybe they will bring out the best in each other, they just got a chemistry

lowkey said:

thank you

VoicesCarry said:

Not a damn thang!! but their chemistry with Janet crazy good. They always are experimental with her. They need each other.

midiscover said:

and they actually know how to craft a song.

how many of these dorks know about melody? a bridge? a chorus? all they know is how to turn on a freaken computer and distort sounds, samples and beats.

As her partnership with Jam & Lewis progressed, Janet's material started to rely more and more heavily on direct samples because the producers were simply past their prime. They could craft a fantastic original song 20 years ago, but today, there's no reason to think they're any better than Dupri. Jam & Lewis are not going to be her saviours any time soon.

With Rodney she has done some interesting things, like Feedback, and I'd like to see her explore that further. It's funny because everyone - myself included - thought Make Me was a Jam & Lewis production when it leaked and then it turned out Rodney produced it. So, he has managed to capture at least some of their chemistry.
[Edited 11/20/09 16:17pm]

xlr8r said:

Yes. Janet get back in the box and stay in for 2-3 albums. You had your out of the box "experiences" and now it is time to hop back in. C'mon Janet. I'd even settle for half 50% of it being in the box at this point.

But I'd still prefer 100% in the box. Maybe she could even call it,
Box. haha

sosgemini said:

Tell me about it! Did any of the tracks on Discipline even have a bridge? All of them were just repetitive, generic shit.
[Edited 11/20/09 16:22pm]

xlr8r said:

I'm referring to the saying "Think outside the box"

Outside= creative, innovative
Inside is the complete opposite

VoicesCarry said:

Dont get me wrong, I liked many of her songs from other producers. Especially Feedback and I am forever in love with With U from 20YrOld. But lets have a return to from is all I ask. This is not to take away fomr some of the works she has done with them other joikoffs but you know...that Janet, Jam, and Lewis chemistry is where its at. Especilly now that we have had 9 years of "others."

Or did you come late to the party?

Vanilli said:

Back In The Box

trueiopian said:

Did you not read what I said in the post you quoted? I said what you just did.

She can be "creative and innovative' with Jam and Lewis.

VoicesCarry said:

Since when was sampling a bad thing? It's a HUGE part of hip-hop and Jam & Lewis are great samplers. They've been doing it with Janet since RN1814. In fact, it's Janet that approached Jam with some songs she wanted to sample on many of her songs. It just shows how well rounded she is in music.

IMO, there was nothing interesting about Feedback. That song could've been sung by any teeny bopper out now. Janet is known for making experimental music, not conforming to the norm. So it's sad to see her relying on generic producers like Rodney now. She's better then that. Though I agree "Make me" is nice and captures what Jam & Lewis used to create with Janet. There's still something missing.
[Edited 11/20/09 16:29pm]

xlr8r said:

I know more about Janet and her career than most everyone on this board.

I simply disagree that good music is going to magically appear from a partnership with stale producers who are past their prime. For me, the last really good chemistry they had was in 1997. They relied much too heavily on sampling in work beyond that - the fact they are Jam & Lewis and were once genius producers doesn't excuse that. If Rodney (or DMile, really) can produce a song as good as Feedback without a sample, then there's more promise there.

xlr8r said:

Oh! So you're referring to being "inside the box" as creative and innovative

Gotcha!

You know what's interesting, Jam & Lewis relied more on samples than they did original material and the original material was mostly ballads. lol

midiscover said:

People in this thread are talking about how great Jam & Lewis are as original songwriters, so sampling is obviously not something they would like Jam & Lewis to do and they don't get a free pass for it from me.

Yes, Jam & Lewis have been sampling since RN, but back then, the sample enhanced the song in a minor way - it was not the song itself, as with All For You. That's where you go from creative to lazy.



For me, it sounded more like her than most of the stuff she'd stuck, but it also updated her sound very well. Catchy as hell. But this is clearly a matter of opinion.
[Edited 11/20/09 16:29pm]
[/quote]
[Edited 11/20/09 16:34pm]

And even though there's a bit of sampling (or should I say interpolations) in "Make Me" it ain't as obvious as say "That's the Way Love Goes" or "Alright".
[Edited 11/20/09 16:34pm]

VoicesCarry said:

LOL I knew you'd say that regarding knowing more. That doesn't mean you didnt come late to the party. And yeah some of us dont know Gils jockstrap size or every songs chart position etc. and one needn't to know that its time for chick to 'come home." At least for one album. Nobody is saying that it will be the greatest thing ever, damn. Hell, her biggest hits relied on sampling and it worked fine. Yes it's nice ot have new blood, but one cd more with Jam Lewis.

And NEXT time working with others outisde of the usual contemporary producers. I mean really go get someoen else who is way out there and not aping some of this current rnb shit.

xlr8r said:

This is really just opinion and has nothing to do with knowledge, but I was a bit taken aback by someone implying I was "late to the party" on anything Janet related

So, we'll have to agree to disagree.
[Edited 11/20/09 16:41pm]