TonyVanDam said:

i dont really care for todays most popular music(i havent listened to the radio in years ) now all of my music some is old some is new mainstream or not all genres world wide most of my songs you won't hear on live radio

but as someone who listens to almost every genre of music from new age to reggae the state of music is not all that bad i dont even see anything wrong with the rap music of today except Lil Wayne I think he needs to go along with some other artists

but other than that its all good the kids love it and its what sells

but i think in the future we might get a whole brand new genre of music we have never heard before:-)

midiscover said:

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Charts don't matter so much these days but even back in the day no one seemed to take an RnB artist seriously unless they crossed over which is what ruined RnB music. I think you know the real reasons RnB has been treated like a step-child in the past it was about race.

laurarichardson said:

I agree with this very much. Despite the wonderful music that permeated the 1960's and 1970's, it is real easy to forget that the charts were in some ways a reflection of the larger American society. In the era of civil rights, desegregation, and overall cultural wars, the R&B chart was usually the be all and end all for many Black artists. As social progress (albeit slow) happened, the charts slowly became integrated and disco really did provide a melting pot of sorts for the charts were you started to see a blend of black artists going to number one on the pop charts. Even Queen had "Another One Bites the Dust" hit number one on the R&B charts when it debuted.

With the decline of disco and the advent of MTV and the superstars it spawned, R&B took on a different sensibility and it was extremely profitable for the record company to find the next WHitney, Prince, or MJ. Even old funksters like Lionel Ritchie started making saccharin sweet ballads and pop tracks. The integration/dance sensibilities of the disco years plus the new media (MTV) made style win out over substance and the R&B charts, which used to give us Sam Cooke, Marvin Gaye and others, suffered. Basically, if you're not pop, you're considered a nobody.

COMPUTERBLUE1984 said:

You know its funny they say how now we are all more "socially" mixed and racially mixed, in things like the dating world. But i often feel that in the industry and even things like TV we are further seperated than ever before. I have long since said that the "Visual" has hindered the world of music, sure its a great art form, and as a guy, i dont mind seeing a bunch of sexy females, but in the reality of it and in the long run, Roger Taylor of QUEEN said it best when talking about his song "Radio GaGa" he said that the marriage of the eyes and mind werent always a good thing. I think that is one reason why u get so many females and males too (no double standards here) who try so hard to be sexy in their moves and look and dress, that its something that you dont try to do, it just is.

As for the chart thing, i mean u said it best Queen had a number one RB hit, so did Elton John, so did Hall and Oates and many others. I mean when i discovered Mariah Carey's music it was a promo cassette tape with a name,4tracks, no picture, no bio that was it, it didnt matter what she looked like she had the goods that u didnt need to see her, u didnt know her back story, blak white or latina, u hadnt a clue, it wasnt pushed on you.

Now could this mix happen today? Could a Elton John per say have a number one RB hit ? (not him, but you get the example) answer is NO, unless Lil Wayne was on it and it was some bullshit sample etc....The RB chart now basically is the HOT 100, if you take out the occasional country songs and Taylor Swift and a few other rock tunes (wannabe rock tunes) then you are left with the RB chart. Now some may say thats how far we've come as "races" but i think its more segragated and limiting now than before.

lastdecember said:

I agree to a point. The only color that matters in the industry is green and that drives alot of the business decisions. As it relates to race + music/charts, I believe the overall sound/listening tastes are more integrated than ever before. The segregation (IMO)is probably more unique to the indiviual listener, since I feel, as you stated, that the RB chart is essentially the HOt 100. I can't quite put my finger/properly articulate further on the "segregation" aspect of the chart perception, but I do see what you are saying.

laurarichardson said:

i think R&B artists were more respected back i n the day, how often did aretha franklin or james brown score big pop hits? they earned their places in history as the queen and godfather of soul. artists like luther vandross, maryj blige, r.kelly became huge stars with not alot of crossover success.

lowkey said:

I know Luther and R. Kelly got a lot of crossover success but I don't think Mary ever did.

Because to be honest, R&B in the US has been a joke for the last 20 years or so.
Yeah, I said it.

The R&B charts have always been called a "specialty" chart by many non-black people in the industy. The R&B charts and any award with the name "R&B" on it is not considered important by the mainstream. Remember when Mariah won those R&B Grammys the other year for "Mimi" and the mainstream media tried their best to downplay the wins? Many times when you read articles about a black singer's chart success (or lack of Pop success), their numbers on the R&B charts are often ignored or never mentioned. However, I have NEVER heard anyone in the business say or allude that the Country & Western charts or awards are not important. Hmmmmm. I wonder why?

Vendetta1 said:

I know..this dude came in my car saying he got some good r&b...


That lil 18 year old boy needed to be SLAPPED GOOD AND WELL as soon as I heard some chopped and screwed shit on. He was lucky he was cute and he is my friend.

I said, "THIS AINT NO DAMN R&B!" He says, "yes it is they talking about picking up girls"....I said "You've got ALOT to learn before you think you know what "r&b" is".

paisleypark4 said:

Lawd Jeebus. How the hell is chopped & screwed R&B? Yeah he has a WHOLE LOT TO LEARN!

Exactly.

It's very easy for music to be integrated these days when all the black artists have "whitened" their music up. Of course the pop and R&B charts are going to be the same.

Back in the early 80s, after the so-called death of disco, the charts were extremely segregated and a black artist rarely made it to the pop chart unless their music was weakened and watered down to suit both charts. Very few white people listened to funk or black radio in general and if they heard some funk playing, "jungle music" was the first thing they would call it. The fact that we have some 40 year old hardcore Prince "fams" on this very site that never heard of Prince until "Little Red Corvette" or "Purple Rain" is proof of how segregated the charts were back then because Prince had been out for years before those songs and was very successful on the R&B charts.

The majority of the pop chart consisting of more black artists than white artists didn't occur until shit hop took over. If you ask a young person today what the "blackest" form of music is, they would say shit hop but I see it as extremely white. The majority of it's consumers are white and it definately has been completely "whitened" down for them. All the drums have been taken out of it, all the bass has been taken out of it, and the tempo of 99% of it has been slowed down to an opera tempo. In other words, every element in black music that made so many white people call it "jungle music" in the past has been taken out of it. Despite the thug criminal images (which racists see as being "black"), I see shit hop as being the "whitest" form of music since the 1800s when everything was slow and rhythmless. Black music wasn't all slow and dull like this when the majority of it's audience was black. Hell, even rap was fast, funky, and full of rhythm back then. Shit, the majority of rap in the early 80s wasn't released on albums but was strictly released on 12 Inch singles and 12 Inch singles didn't have slow songs because they were for the clubs so how the hell did it get to the point that a genre that was originally for parties and clubs became slow enough for 99% of it to be played alongside ballads? Crossover is what happened.
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[Edited 10/19/09 8:32am]

kitbradley said:

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The Country & Western comparision is spot on. I mean why is to okay for an artist to stay on C&W charts and get all the praise and press but it does not work the same for RnB artist.

And also, why is it that a rock or country artist who records with a band can get airplay on their stations but a black artist that records with a band will not get any airplay and can't even get a damn recording contract? If a black artist doesn't record with those horrible cheap sounding shit hop drum machines these days, they aren't even going to make it out of their mama's basement or a local club. Are labels and radio stations trying to say that black is a cheap race and deserves cheap music? That's the message I'm getting from them.

vainandy said:

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"Are labels and radio stations trying to say that black is a cheap race and deserves cheap music? That's the message I'm getting from them."

I think that is the message or that we either don't have the abilty to play music or someone wants it to appear that we don't

Everyone knows blacks have the ability to play music because every single black artist had a backing band until shit hop took over. What it is, is shit hop has been the biggest selling music for 15 years and it has also been the most cheaply made, not to mention the artists are stupid thugs that they can manipulate into putting on their minstrel show. They aren't about to let any other form of black music come in and mess that up. But yet I see it's still OK with them for rock and country to record with bands.

When it comes to black music though, they have kept shit hop as the main form of music for soooo long that they have raised an entire generation of both blacks and whites who know nothing else when it comes to black music, accept that it is black music, expect all black music to sound cheap and shit hoppish, and could care less if a style change never comes. In other words, if you raise someone on bologna and give them nothing else, they will never ask for steak.