mrsnet said:

There is no difference between drugs. They’re all PAIN medication. Taken to get rid of emotional pain. It’s really naive of you to think being addicted to prescribed medication is somehow a healthier thing then drugs on the street. It’s such a stupid mentality, and a mentality that ended up killing Michael, and a lot of other showbiz people.

Arnotts said:

there's a difference. some are illegal and some aren't. abuse it still the same. people who do illegal drugs are doing it to get high or relieve pain in a way they know they shouldn't.

michael didn't even have any pain medication in his system, he had sedatives...and propofol. he wanted to sleep not get high or anything.

and michael's case is worse because it was his doctor who injected him with the stuff and that's why his death certificate says homicide because someone else caused his death.
[Edited 9/27/09 22:31pm]

Arnotts said:

yup it's that kinda mentality that gets people addicted to prescrip drugs in the first place
[Edited 9/27/09 22:31pm]

mimi07 said:

I mean during the Dangerous and Invincible period when he was obviously addicted to drugs. Maybe he wasnt in his last days, but I still think you have to have an almighty drug problem if your willing to have a dangerous drug like propofol injected in you just for sleep

yeah dr murray def technically caused his death

but i dunno i think its silly to think there's some huge distinction between prescription sedatives and other drugs. hell, alcohols a sedative.

Arnotts said:

yes people don't start off saying OH YES injection will cure my insomnia. it's after trying out every other drug on the market

Arnotts said:

or he could have just trusted alot of greedy doctors. i mean michael was no medical professional, i doubt he just one day thought of using propofol to sleep. some doctor had to have suggested it.

during the dangerous era he went to rehab so we know something wasn't right and between 2001-2203 something seems off to me. he wasn't there in his eyes he was on something(s)
[Edited 9/27/09 22:41pm]

Copycat said:

Are these a new thing?

$9.99

I'm getting me some paper dolls!


[Edited 9/28/09 0:12am]

mrsnet said:

Thanks for answering that for me.

EmeraldSkies said:

are u asking if paper dolls are a new thing?

mimi07 said:

no. I have had paper dolls before.

Arnotts said:

Just one question, how much of what he´s been through would YOU be able to handle?
Let me add, that I did not say that he was blameless for anything. What I am saying is that I keep on seeing and reading things and hearing people just questioning his mental state without EVER hearing the other side of the story. FOr the LMP/MJ marriage, we have heard only Lisa´s version where she blamed him for everything and anything and never heard Mike´s take on that. You hear Schmuley talking about him how he had to break up their friendship cause he couldn´t watch Mike acting the way he did without mentioning he stole money from charity and that maybe that was the reason for their breakup. See, it´s very, very easy to make MJ look like anything when Mike was always too nice and polite to say anything about THEM. See, in court you always hear defense´s and prosecution side of stories. In MJ´s case, we´ve always heard just the "prosecution´s" side. We, MJ fans, are than seen as the ones only on his defense team. Well, of course, we are. The rest of the world works for the prosecution side.
[Edited 9/28/09 0:25am]

dag said:

I actually came to my conclusion about Michael purely from hearing him talk himself. I used to think the way you did before I heard all tapes of Michael opening up. I was completely shocked by all of it, as stupid as it sounds I guess subconciously I never really thought of him as human. So when I heard him talk and the things he talked about I came to the conlusion that I have now. If I went through what he did I probably wouldnt of survived, just like he didnt. I'm not a strong person either. Me thinking he wasnt very strong isnt me condeming him. I love him just as much as ever. Probably even more now knowing about all his weakness and his humanness.

mrsnet said:

Homicide is not murder. Murder is a form of homicide. The death was ruled homicide, which means Murray may be charged with murder, manslaughter, or one or more several other charges ranging from minor to severe.

Murder, in almost all cases, has to show an intent to kill.

If (or, more likely, when) Murray is charged with anything, there will be a trial and a lot of things may come out in that trial. It seems pretty clear to me that Jackson was unfortunately using these drugs as some sort of coping mechanism (maybe it was just for sleep, maybe it was deeper than that) and if Jackson was asking for these drugs and if there was a history of Jackson being given them, then murder will not stick, if it's even alleged to begin with.

However, there is somewhat of a precedence. Dr. Kevorkian was unlawfully helping patients commit assisted suicide, and he was sent to prison for quite a while, and probably would still be there if not for his age and health, as well as the fact that the people he euthanized expressed their wishes to die, which is not something I think Jackson did.

CUTENESS

Arnotts said:

Which tapes? The Schmuley ones? He didn´t say anything new though. Except for the new parts where he talks about women, that I´ve just read that were posted. The rest was old. So what made you change your mind? Well, I am not saying he´s a super human with no faults.I know I wouldn´t have survived what he´s been through, but I would have probably been dead much earlier. That´s why I think he´s strong.

dag said:

I’m talking about the Glenda tapes. And some things he says in these Shmuley tapes. But it was the Glenda tapes that really surprised me, I knew about them when they were first released but I never bothered to listen to them. I wish now that I had of before he died. Also reading Latoya’s and Jermaine’s ex’s biographies taught me a lot too.

Arnotts said:

oh OK. I´ve read the two books and there´s not a lot about Mike. Well, I find it weird that he blames women for the his brother´s unhappiness when Margaret (or what her name is) claim they were all unfaithful to their wives.

And the Glenda tapes?..I´ve listened to them years ago...what was in them? Also not that much. He spoke about childhood (we know that), anorexia (apparent), Joseph (nothing new), what else...? The only "new" thing is when he spoke about women. It seems to me as if he was dating two at a time. Is that that surprised you?

michael never said he had anorexia, well how was is apparent
[Edited 9/28/09 1:24am]

mimi07 said:

He did. In the phonecalls with Glenda....here´s one of them.

I am not sure in which part he says that, but you can find them all on youtube. Well he was just so skinny especially during Thriller days. He got better after that. He looked fine during Bad, Dangerous, History and Invincible (even got a LIL chubby), but with that trial he got so skinny again. But I don´t think he had it all the time. I think he even said that when he was in stress he just wouldn´t eat at all. I am not sure if that is anorexia, but when the stress lasts too long you begin to look like that.

dag said:

Yes I heard him say before that his dad beat him and that he had a bad childhood, but Michael is always so evasive in his interviews so I never actually new the extent or even quite believed him until I heard him talking so in depth and ‘like a real person’ about it to Glenda. No I didn’t know he had anorexia either. And yes it was most of all the women he talked about that shocked me the most. He tried his hardest to come off as so asexual in public that it really really worked. He built this image of being non human to very great effect, like he was always very rehearsed in public, never spoke about personal issues in detail, etc. that it was shocking to hear him talk so real, and to realise that he was just a normal guy like everybody else. I mean I know people that were shocked he even had parents and siblings they were that unaware of his personal life.

Oh and those books just gave me alot of insight into the family dynamics rather than just Michael himself.
[Edited 9/28/09 5:47am]

Michael's not blameless of course but he's damn near pure victim as you'll ever see. He was not a stupid man so he had no excuse for some of the foolish things he did. He had to have been high to let a bashir slip into his realm, and an arvizo too, any normal person would have been wary as hell after the first episode of child allegations. Not Michael, I think that may perhaps point to a self-destructiveness in him to set himself up like that. In terms of him being a "strong" person, I said immedieately after he died that he never struck me as a person who couod cope with mental or physical pain very well. Life is hard for everyone but people do let things ruin their lives. Traumatic things happens to most of us somewhere along the line, we as humans do not treat each other very well you know. You add to that the unfathomable fame which would warp anyone, or just about anyone's mind and we have Michael. But I don't excuse the vultures, none of them. Lots of bad people used that man up and I'll bet they sleep fine at night. You know, scandals happen to nearly everyone in that realm of fame, I think part of those things are the systems way of keeping people in check. When these symbols become destroyed like they often do it shows us that we as people have no real power. They drove Paul Robeson out of the country, Chaplin too, Jack Johnson, put Elvis in the Army, tried to prove Jack Dempsey was a rapist, a pimp and a draft dodger, Ali too. I mentioned before that Bill Cosby barely evaded being prosecuted when he settled with a woman who claims he drugged her, 13 women came out the woodwork with stories of rape, molestation, physical abuse, and you wonder if the timing of it has anything to do with his assertions to his community. He fell of the radar pretty much after that. Conspiracy theories or do we see a pattern here? You think the biggest star in the history of the world would somehow be left out? Well, they couldn't get him with women, not men, not being an illegal drug user, not being greedy, but they found something, they always do.

Arnotts said:

So you were like shocked in a good way?

I got over that shock of him being quite normal a long time ago. He just never ever showed it to public. I guess not even in this interview cause he knew it was going to be released and he was just not about to open himself completely about this subject. He´s much more open with Glenda cause he never thought that would never get into public.

I don´t know 100% if Mike had anorexia, but he did look way too skinny sometimes and he mentioned it with Glenda...

dearmother said:

For Real.

mimi07 said:

I screencapped from this interview too..I love that smile!!!

ViintageJunkiie said:

He wasn´t wearing any lipstick, I guess. BTW haven´t you noticed that his lips had the color of his skin most probably due to vitiligo?
Look at the buttom lip in these pictures. YOu can see they were naturally much wider than the color is.

Over here as well and the top lip is "drawn bigger than it is". I don´t know who did his make-up so badly on those days. But it´s visible in many recent pictures.

His bottom lip has always been bigger than the top one.

[Edited 9/28/09 8:48am]

dag said:

All I know is i posted these because I feel they're real 'interviews' that isn't the right word it's like two friends talking about life and opinions.

i think michael looks jus like he's chillin on the regular here in the brett ratner clips
[Edited 9/28/09 8:54am]

here's what omer said:



Words can not express my gratitude for all the love and support that you have shown me during this very difficult time. I have lost the closest and most important person in my life. He raised and made me the person that I am today.

From the bottom of my heart I thank all the fans around the world for all the kind and encouraging words.
I am sorry that I have not been able to respond to all your wonderful messages, but please know that I am truly grateful for each one of them.

Making music and performing has been my dream as for long as I can remember.
I want to honor him and his legacy, keeping his spirit alive.

I look forward to sharing my dreams with all of you when the time is right.

Sincerely,
Omer Bhatti/O-Bee

mimi07 said:

So I guess that means he´s confirming MJ is not his father.

dag said:

he's not really confirming anything