I like how smarmy the lyrics are. Not typical for AOR LOL....

"Tell me, when you're there lying by his side. Do you make him believe all your needs have been satisfied".....

Written by Westcoast AOR mastro's Steve Kipner and Bobby Caldwell

I miss hi-tech production
[Edited 8/17/09 19:40pm]

thesexofit said:

Yeah people tend to forget this song and it was the final single from that record, though it didnt get any attention ( not much) it still is a song that is underrated

lastdecember said:

I had no idea it was a single? Iam sure the album will get remastered eventually. But honestly, despite the quite low sound level of the album (which never bothers me, but does to alot of people for some reason), the recording, mixing etc..., is still amazing. So much better recorded and mixed compared to new albums...

thesexofit said:

yeah it peaked at Number 91. I forget now were U into David Foster's productions or not???

lastdecember said:

Hell yeah, I love David Foster. One of my all time fav people in music. Cant forgot the person he use to work with in the 80's, the mixer and engineer Humberto Gattica (and sometime producer). His body of work is amazing too.

David Foster even put out some very nice instumental albums.

thesexofit said:

Yeah i wasnt sure i remember discussing with you i just couldnt remember. I think he (meaning Foster) is behind the new Katharine Mcphee record on his label out Sept 12. Would love a 80's ballad/production type record from her

lastdecember said:

Cool to see Foster still going, but I cant get with top 40 anymore really. I go back with music, never current LOL.

I've always had a soft-spot for this album. "Niagara Falls" is a cool song and was a good single choice, a shame that it didn't get the attention it deserved.

NoVideo said:

Very good album, people dont really give much love to Jason Scheff when they should.

thesexofit said:

Oh i hear you on that, i dont think she will fall into that Top 40 thing with him though, nor do i think he will.

lastdecember said:

I do like Scheffs voice. Still prefer Cetera's though, but thats to no fault of Jasons.

I Like really like Lamm's "forever" on that album. Just love the track sonically with that great sax on the background. "Over and over " is another great track. Again, quite beautiful sonically. Cant forget "one more day". You had to have an anthem back then LOL. Its a nice track actually.

thesexofit said:

Something else you might be interested in.

He was in a group called Airplay (1980)...



...with legendary session guitarist/songwriter Jay Graydon.

Some of the musicians in Toto also played on this record.
According to some, this record epitomized the "West Coast" sound of that time period.


The original version of After The Love Is Gone...



...that they wrote together along with Bill Champlin from the Airplay album.


It was redone by Jay Graydon (w/Bill Champlin on lead vocal) in 1993...



...on his Airplay for the Planet album. David Foster also plays on the album.


From the David Foster special...



...Nothin' You Can Do About It with Jay Graydon.


tA

Tribal Disorder

http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431

theAudience said:

Yeah, I got the "airplay" CD and the Jay Graydon one (Jap version of "Airplay For The Planet"). Thanks for the lookout though. I like Jay Graydon alot aswell. I love his simple, but melodic guitar playing.

Heres an album you might not know, but may dig:



Planet 3 "A heart from the big machine".

Originally Jap only, this has been reissued a couple of times since, changing the last track on the CD each time (why I dont know?). I got the original Jap version, taking the plunge long before youtube was around to see if I would dig it or not LOL.

Anyway, group consists of Graydon, Glen Ballard and Cliff Magness. Released in the early 90's (though probably recorded in 89 judging by the production), its one of my all time fav albums..

I tend to favour mid-late 80's AOR, whilst I imagine you dig the jazzier/westcoard late 70's/early 80's AOR. Planet 3 are definately late 80's sounding LOL.

"I dont wanna say goodnight"

.
Did they offer this to Chicago? Its so them LOL. Rumour I read was the whole album were (very polished) rejected demo's for Hearts then new album. I think thats unlikely, but it could be true. All vocals by Magness. Listen to his harmonies around 2:40 mark. Seriously slick stuff for a song so obscure.

I think any AOR fan would like this album. Anyone else have it?
[Edited 8/17/09 18:57pm]

lastdecember said:

An interesting set of albums Jason was involved with.

West Coast All-Stars- Naturally...



...Stairway To Heaven (featuring Jason on lead vocals)


I believe they've released 3 a capella albums featuring Jason Scheff, Bill Champlin, Bobby Kimball & Joseph Williams on vocals


tA

Tribal Disorder

http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431

theAudience said:

Dont like this at all. All those AOR guys fled to Japan in the 80's to well now really. They love them alot more then America and Europe. Interesting to hear both Bobby Kimball and Joseph Williams working together (both ex toto lead singers, as Iam sure you know).

Did you check Planet 3? As I said, abit late for you maybe. Not organic enough?
[Edited 8/17/09 19:18pm]

thesexofit said:

I've always like Jay Graydon's playing.
(He was good enough to nail the Peg solo over some pretty heavy players)

Sounds like it could've been a Jason Scheff era Chicago tune.
Pretty typical "West Coast" sounding cut.


tA

Tribal Disorder

http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431

theAudience said:

I know Graydon mostly through Planet 3 and El Debarge, but I read he goes back further then that. By "peg" I presume your talking about Steely Dan? Not a fan LOL, but I appreciate their musicianship.

What do you think of "niagra falls"? Too hi tech and overproduced? Too slick?

thesexofit said:

I'd fallen out of love with Chicago by this time.
At this point it was no longer a band but a bunch of studio musicians (albeit good ones) doing the recording.

My only interest was the fact that I played some gigs with Jason and one of the co-writers of One More Day (Carmen Grillo).
I was also a big fan of Bill Champlin (who also played with us occasionally when he was off the road with Chicago.)

It just doesn't compare with CTA and subsequent records that included Terry Kath imo.


tA

Tribal Disorder

http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431
[Edited 8/17/09 20:20pm]

I don't mean to be a downer on this topic, but did you guys hear that BILL CHAMPLIN is no longer with CHICAGO?! There was a press release issued that he quit but the word going around the Chicago camp is that he was indeed let go. He'd been with the band for 28 years!

On a positive note, CHAMPLIN has just released a phenominal solo album called "No Place Left To Fall." It's got some of that classic AOR/Westcoast sound as well as some funkier bluesy stuff. Very polished..slick...what you would somewhat expect from him but ALL live instruments and no auto-tune!

For the record, NIAGRA FALLS is a seriously bad a** tune. I love the changes, the Foster production AND Jason's vocals on that album are among the best he's done in the band.

There is an unreleased song from the sessions of that album called "WHEN WILL THE WORLD BE LIKE LOVERS." Bill, Jason AND Robert Lamm handle lead vocals. The horns are all over the place and Michael Landau does a blazin' guitar solo. It sounds VERY 1987 but its worth checkin' out. I believe someone has posted it on YouTube. So if you dig Chicago 18, go look that song up...it's out there...

theAudience said:

Wow! Thats so cool you played with Scheff (and the co-writer from "one more day", I love that song!). Champlin musta been so busy in the 80's and early 90's. He appears as a backing vocalist on dozens of records outside his own.

I like "beginnings" and still play it sometimes, and also loved the way it was incorporated into the boot "when will the world be like lovers". It worked well....

I do agree that they became as you said, no longer a real band with outside songwriters to boot, but that doesn't detract from the music for me personally. Good music is good music. Members like Lamm, aswell as Scheff and Chaplin, did still co-write here and there, but of course it was not nearly the same then when it was in the 70's, and far away from their CTA days...

thesexofit said:

Well there was alot of the "studio musician" thing going on, i mean the rumour and possible truth was that NO BEATLE played on Abbey Road, which was their best album. TOTO one of the most underrated bands ever, are one of the reasons "Thriller" still sounds good today. It never really bothered me with Studio Musicians, as long as the playing and songs are good. One of my favorite bands BERLIN, on their last "original band" album, no one played, Ted Nugent was on Guitars and various others, but crawford and Nunn still wrote the songs. Chicago to me is still one of those groups deserving of so much praise and always seem to be left out in the rain in the talks of greatest bands ever.

hipnusol said:

Chicago's last album was pretty dull i found. Still loved parts of "stone of sisyphus" though, which finally got an official release last year (albiet, without Dwayne Baileys rather excellent "get on this" for some reason?). I got the boot to that one, aswell as the fantastic "when will the world be like lovers" many years ago, before youtube LOL.

"When will the world be like lovers" is one of my fav Chicago tracks ever! Love the "beginnings" outro at the end. Lamm sounds great on it too. They all do. It might just be a demo but it sounds too good, with the horns and everything, to be a mere demo....

... A re-arranged version did surface on Lamms solo CD "life if good in my neighbourhood", but its no way near as good. The Chicago version does indeed sound like a timewarp but thats probably why I love it so much LOL. I sorta gathered it was Landau on guitar. He, along with Lukather, Dan Huff and Michael Thompson, were on everyones records back then.

thesexofit said:

Dan Huff another guy i forgot to mention on the studio musicians, he was also the guitarist all over the 1987 "Count Three and Pray" album from BERLIN, some amazing solos on that.

Off topic, a great record to seek out if you dont have it, is the "Saraha Snow" recording, its Rick Springfield's one-off project before he did his return album in 1998 with KARMA.

lastdecember said:

I've been meaning to get that "Karma" album. Dan Huff fronted "Giant", a melodic rock (not hair metal) group who released 2 rather good, and overlooked albums in the late 80's/early 90's. Meant to be unsung AOR hero Mark Spiro on lead vocals (he co-wrote some of the tracks off the first album, but Dan had to take over as Mark was not allowed to record his vocals due to prior contract issues apparantly.)

"Stay" (off second album, no Spiro input)


"innocent days" Spiro co-write. Blend 80's Simple minds with anthemic U2 and this is what you get:-


Great summer music!

thesexofit said:

KARMA is a great record, Rick plays almost everything on the album, its very acoustic and raw sounding, and a total different feel of when you play his 2004 album "Shock Denial Anger Acceptance" which is an all out rock n roll guitar amped up record, all his records have been great works.

I liked GIANT had both of those cd's "I'll See you in my dreams" was the big power ballad hit at the time, when BALLADS were allowed.

lastdecember said:

yeah I like "I'll see you in my dreams" alot. Great production. Not a huge Springfield fan, but "Karma" is on my "list of things to buy" for one day. Just not got round to it yet. Mark Spiro is one to look out for. He co-wrote here and there (David Cassidy's excellent "stranger in your heart", Julian Lennons "saltwater" etc...). Nice artist.

David Cassidy: "Stranger in your heart"


"Saltwater" fits perfectly on his "Care Of My Soul" album, with his own version off the jap release (which I own). Great, and underated album.

lastdecember said:

Believe me, I totally get the "studio musician" thing. Especially behind solo artists (MJ, Boz Scaggs, etc).
(A potentially lucrative musical career path that's almost evaporated in Pop music)
It's just a little weird when it happens with a supposedly self-contained band like Chicago.
David Foster did the same thing (pulled in studio cats to record) on a couple of albums by The Tubes as another example.

From the producer's point of view, if the budget is available and he gets the final product he's after, it's all good.

But I guess, from a "band" member's point of view, it can make them come off looking a bit like The Monkees.

I still respect today's Chicago.
Anybody that can still go out, get behind some instruments and play/sing (without any electronic assistance ) great songs is alright with me.


tA

Tribal Disorder

http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431

theAudience said:

Chicago still pretty much played on "18" ,but the credits are full of "Additional musicians" that annoyinly do not state where they did what (in this the musicians included David Foster, Michael landau, Buzz Feiten, Lukather etc...).

Yes have an album called "Union" (1991), where albums producer Jonathan "Duran Duran" Elias got outside musicians without telling the bandmates. Keyboardist Rick Wakeman was understandably horrified when someone (Steve Porcano I think?) replaced his work with theirs.

But yeah, I see your point with all the outside help they got when you compare it to their early work. Heck, at least Genesis didn't get other peoples keyboard parts in their later "sell out" years LOL.