Dancelot said:

Found this interesting article http://www.guardian.co.uk...arts.music
It suggests Mozart wasn't a musical genius just a master at his work
[Edited 8/27/09 7:52am]
[Edited 8/27/09 7:54am]

if you didn't work hard at perfecting your livelihood, then I guess you wouldn't be a genius at all....

BklynBabe said:

Who said that?

midiscover said:

again I disagree

however, Mozart aside, my point remains: by your definition NO classical composer ever could be considered a genius, cause they HARDLY write the "lyrics" and NEVER sing themselves

.
[Edited 8/27/09 8:14am]

Dancelot said:

I'm not saying that because I consider Arnold Schoenberg a musical genius and he never wrote lyrics nor sung. All I'm saying is that "musical geniuses" understand every aspect of music. They don't have to play multiple instruments to do so either. It's usually how they project their genius. I'm sure Mozart had in mind while composing what vocals would go well with his orchestration. He didn't just compose music. You know what I mean?

midiscover said:

Confucius....

...I said it. (crosses you off the genius list)
[Edited 8/27/09 8:21am]

scriptgirl said:

thank god

I think he had genius potential but unfortunately he didn't live long enough to prove that to himself or anyone else. maybe if he had chosen a different spouse.

scriptgirl said:

co-sign

BlaqueKnight said:

This is about right.

You cannot put Kurt and Diddy in the same camp. Kurt has actual talent.

RodeoSchro said:

NO WAY

HAIR METAL OVERSTAY WELCOME TO MAX!

HAIR METAL HAVE TO DIE SOMEDAY

KURT RIGHT GUY AT RIGHT TIME

BUT SOUNDGARDEN AND ALICE IN CHAIN ALREADY ON MAJOR LABEL IN NINETY ONE

IT NOT LIKE KURT DO IT ALONE

Idk I personally think he was an amazing songwriter. I LOVE his lyrics and In Utero is a fucking classic album. after reading his Biography i practically feel in love with the guy.

but personally I'm an even huger HOLE fan.

WildheartXXX said:

Agree

well, i never said i thought he was a musical genius. a songwriting genius? maybe.

as far as i've ever been aware, mozart IS a musical genius.

and i've never really cared for "the princess bride".

I don't get the Princess Bride hype either.
Kurt's lyrics are undeniably great.
Lyrics for "Dumb"
I'm not like them
But I can pretend
The sun is gone
But I have a light
The day is done
But I'm having fun

I think I'm dumb
or maybe just happy
Think I'm just happy
my heart is broke
But I have some glue
help me inhale
And mend it with you
We'll float around
And hang out on clouds
Then we'll come down
And have a hangover... have a hangover

Skin the sun
Fall asleep
Wish away
The soul is cheap
Lesson learned
Wish me luck
Soothe the burn
Wake me up

I'm not like them
But I can pretend
The sun is gone
But I have a light
The day is done
But I'm having fun

I think I'm dumb

If he hadn't killed himself would you be asking the question?

Maybe the actual genius was checking out before his mediocrity was exposed.

I don't think he was aware of that, but I think that's how it played out. Can you actually see buying a Nirvana album in 2009?

Yes, I can see buying a Nirvana album in 2009

scriptgirl said:

Agreed.

Anyone who can't see the genius within "In Utero" - specifically tracks like "Serve The Servants", "Frances Farmer Will Have Her Revenge on Seattle", "Scentless Apprentice", "All Apologies" and "Heart Shaped Box" must be hearing-impaired.

Yes, I realise that's a provocative statement. But Kurt was unquestionably a genius lyricist and songwriter and most people who say otherwise just like to be contrary to popular opinion.

Millions of people loved Kurt before he died and millions of people loved him after. Yes death elevated his legend, but you can say the same about everyone from Hendrix to Robert Johnson to Buddy Holly.

Kurt is even more important to my generation than Hendrix. Again, a provocative statement but it's true. You know how many kids I knew at high school that picked up a guitar and started expressing themself, because of Kurt? Tons.

Hendrix held that position for the prior generation, but he means very little to aspiring rock guitarists born after 1982, at least not until they're already proficient enough to study the history of it. Damn near everyone I know that plays guitar and is under the age of 30 started because they wanted to play Smells Like Teen Spirit. Whether you think that's how it should be or not, that's how it is.

People that know nothing about Kurt, I notice, just write him off as some depressed suicidal junkie, but that wasn't the case at all. He was smart and witty, with a dark, dry humor that I think went over a lot of people's heads, but that's what makes it even funnier. There's a lot of that in his lyrics too, but again, it seems to pass a lot of people by. They aren't listening properly.

I know a lot of musical virtuosos who write off Kurt because they feel like they spent a lot of time on their craft and that should automatically mean they have the ability to change people's perception of music, and here's this guy who wasn't a virtuoso and probably couldn't shred like Malmsteen, and yet dominated an entire genre of music both in life and death. But they're missing the point of what Kurt was about. He could emote and make you feel like no other. He was and still is the perfect symbol of an angry, frustrated generation that had basically fuck-all in common with the glam, shiny plasticy "we're all super cool rock stars" attitude of the hair metal that dominated before he came along.

It's cool if you don't get it, but that doesn't give you the right to dismiss it. Yes, I'm aware that some things that sell are just fads - Vanilla Ice sold 20 million records back in the day and now we all laugh at him (and rightly so).

But Kurt and Nirvana's contuining popularity is very much justifiable and that's why he's been at the top of the highest earning dead celebrities list ever since he died, and still is to this day (although, since 2 months ago I'm sure MJ will top that list for a long, long, time).

It's no great mystery why I love Kurt and don't like Mozart. Music is not just about technical ability to me.

There's no soul in what Mozart did, and I'm sure I'll get attacked for that comment. Technically brilliant? Sure. Genius? Sure. Do I want to listen to his work? No, because it doesn't make me feel any emotion other than boredom.

Kurt was a musical genius, and he was also the right person, in the right place, writing the right songs, at the right time. That's something that doesn't happen often, but when it does - you get something as brilliant as "Nevermind".

Militant said:

Well, good for you but we all didn't grow up with the stuff. Some of us had masters to look towards. The business was rife for the kind of backlash Kurt led, yes it was too superficial, yes it was too poppy and image oriented but I advance that what grunge and hip hop offered was even more "anti-image" oriented but my biggest problem with both is that they lead towards pure decadence in every way imaginable. Rock was always heavy into "sex,drugs, rock and roll" but there was always even more emphasis on redemption, hope, brotherhood, joy and a whole litany of great things that make it redeeming. Hip-hop and grunge are so insincere and fake, just as all the hip-hoppers generally never lived any kind of thug lifestyle, most of the grunge goofballs didn't have any reason for all the frustration other than to act narcissistic and get attention, like a damned 2 year old. I just never liked the attitude, it usurped the poppy images we had and replaced them with ones even more narcissistic. Then, not all of us are white, so we don't all understand the interest or share the same sarcastic smartass attitude that they do. If we took that attitude towards life we wouldn't be frustrated, we just wouldn't survive.

mozfonky said:

Every1 has a right 2 his/her own opinion. Besides as some1 mentioned b4 on another thread, it's all subjective.

I don't think his body of work was big enough for him to be considered a Genius.
Had he lived, he may very well may have been another flash in the pan. No way to know for sure.

Jimi Hendrix didn't have a large body of work either

Mars23 said:

No, but I can see actually buying a Kurt Cobain album, or an album by whatever band he would have started post-Nirvana. I think their break-up was eminent, had he lived or not. I can see Kurt trying to go as far away from the grunge fad as possible, maybe following in the footsteps of Patti Smith and Neil Young or going in a completely different direction altogether. I'm sure there would have been the occasional money-grabbing "Nirvana reunions" - a Lollapalooza show here, a greatest hits collection there - but to answer your question, no, I can't see them having stayed together through 2009 had he lived.

Anxiety said:

Kurt WAS Nirvana to me. Also, I think he owned the name, so it would have been a NIN-type thing with revolving band members and different sounds.

I mean, let's say late 80's industrial music had the impact that grunge had with Trent as the public face, and let's say he died. Surely people wouldn't have expected a 2009 NIN album to sound anything like "Pretty Hate Machine" (and we know that it doesn't), so why do people assume that a 2009 Nirvana album would sound anything like "Nevermind"?

Also, Kurt's last recorded material like "Do Re Mi" doesn't sound anything like his earlier stuff, and it's a well known fact that he was going to make an album with Michael Stipe.

scriptgirl said:

ano over just three albums his style changed alot.

Musically (in terms of an incredible ability to create hooks)? Yes. Lyrically? Definitely no. Incredibly overrated in that regard.

Ace said:

RKJCNE said:

Slight correction in regards 2 Jimi. 4 someone who led a short life, he amassed a pretty impressive body of work. Besides, the three AYE, Axis, & EL, he created Band of Gypsies Live set with the immortal Machine Gun, Cry of Love with the classic Angel,the Star Spangled Banner along with a healthy dose of outtakes that could fill a vault.