Apples to oranges, I know.


But both artist are/were very accomplished musicians. Frank Zappa dabbled in every possible genre you could think of including classical music, being both critically acclaimed as well as marginally commercial (Apostrophe! reach #10 on the album charts).
Stevie Wonder wrote some of the best albums of the 70s and continues to perform and inspire, releasing one of my favorite (and critically acclaimed) albums, Songs in The Key...

Where Zappa's music is whimsical, sometimes almost absurd, Stevie's oozes with soul and emotion.


Well? Which one?

Can't help you on this one bro.
You pretty much said it yourself..."Apples to oranges"

Both are great in their own way.


tA

Tribal Disorder

http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431

theAudience said:

I think that's what makes it so challenging.

I mean it would be easy if you were comparing Madonna to Frank Zappa or Stevie.
But when they're both formidable, even if they styles are vastly different, it makes it impossible. I like those impossible answers

My answer:



SLY FOX!

"Let's Go All The Way" was THE JAM!!!!

I can't choose, it's impossible.

Frank speaks to the mind.

Stevie speaks to the heart.

They're both essential.

I have to admit that I've enjoyed reading Frank's book and delving into his outlook on life (as well as his sense of humour) has taught me much.

Stevie's message of peace and love is equally impenetrable and his music is a life force. The man knows the most beautiful chords and uses them frequently.

The only advantage I can see that Frank would have in this 'contest' is that he set a larger example for other artists as to what an artist could do when independent of a record company, and yet still make money and good music. That and the sheer volume of his recorded output is baffling. I have 90% of everything the man recorded and released and I still haven't listened to half of it with the attention that it deserves.

Stevie could also be lauded for escaping the creative clutches of Motown and all before he was twenty, after a few albums and undeniable hits under his belt, at a time when his music was needed most.

1500 words later, I can't decide.

Anxiety said:

I want you to take a spoon, and taste the flavors of my butthole with it.

exenn said:

brilliant
This is actually the kind of response I love reading!

I have to admit, I truly thought I could choose between the two. But it's just too hard.

exenn said:

I prefer Stevie

But, that's mostly because there's emotion in much of his work and I can feel it. I don't get that from what little I've heard of Zappa, though I thought he was brilliant none the less.

Imago said:

That's understandable. From what I gather, Frank was NEVER wearing his heart on his sleeve. Maybe some of his commentary on the early Mothers of Invention records were from the gut, but his better music is usually as much about the absurd as it is anything else. Stevie, as you say, is about the emotion and the human condition, but never at the expense of the composition. To do so much of the work himself and put so many different flavours across in one song is nothing short of amazing.

exenn said:

excellent points

as noted earlier, apples to oranges.
Both are very qualified musicians and lyricists. Have extraordinary stage personas and influenced loads of artists. Zappa´s technical approach to Stevie´s melodic approach. But I must say I prefer Zappa´s music. It just is in another realm. He created his own Zappaverse, with a conceptual continuity. Clashed with the record industry, stood up to the Mothers of Prevention in court. It´s a Zappa world, and I´m living in it

exenn said:

Beautiful

theAudience said:

Yeah that's 2 different levels of genius love em both

starbuck said:

The avatar kind of gave me a hint as to what the answer might be

At first, this seemed a bit ridiculous to compare these two.
Especially, since no parameters where given to base a choice on.
That being the case, you're left to create your own.
So after thinking about this a little more, i've made a decision based on who extended Music As Art further along in their careers.

Although Stevie Wonder could be considered a musical innovator in the 70s, imo he's been on cruise control artistically ever since.
Now this may cause some SW fans to get all bent out of shape just because they like all of his material.
But this isn't about whose songs you prefer or a popularity contest, it's about who extended their talents further over the length of their career.
(Again, based on the parameters I set to make a choice since none were given)

Frank Zappa in comparison continued to push the musical envelope to the very end, incorporating Rock/Doo-Wop/Jazz/Fusion/Orchestral all along the way.

For versatility alone, Frank Zappa wins from my perspective.
He was also an individual that had very strong well thought out opinions (on a number of subjects) and was not afraid to express them publically for fear of jeopardizing his musical career.


tA

Tribal Disorder

http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431

theAudience said:

I totally see where you're coming from and completely respect that.

But dude, I NEED to ask you a question!
Did you factor spectrum of emotion into your decision and if so how much did it factor?

It's one of the things that made me love NIN more then Ministry in the 90's. Ministry had gone from synth pop to ear blurring thrash metal neo industrial ick. Both of which I LOVE jamming to. But NIN made me feel more emotional 'color' and I ended up drawn to NIN more. Of course, in the beginning these two synth-noise electro bands were seen as being from the same genre.

Zappa and Stevie float in their own amazing Universes seldom touching.

Frank Zappa's clay animation and 16mm work is genious by itself.
This thread is nonsense.

Steve is a genious.

I like 'em both for very different reasons. I could never say one is "better" than the other.

A lot has to do with my own mood of the moment when choosing a musical selection to listen to.

Stevie connects me to my emotions and Frank makes me see that most of our world is really shallow and crass while pretending to be otherwise.

Zappa makes me think. Stevie makes me feel.

I've seen Stevie once and Frank a handful of times but when it comes to live performance Stevie's ability to move a crowd is way beyond Frank's but then again, Frank isn't aiming to make everyone feel good.

In fact, having seen Frank with several different bands over the course of 10 years or so, I think Frank actually wants to do the opposite- make you feel... well... not exactly "bad" but maybe shocked or sobered.

I remember when I was a kid we got a puppy and when it peed in the house where it wasn't supposed to my dad would grab him by the scruff of the neck and rub his nose in his pee while raising his voice angrily.

Sometimes going to see Zappa was like getting your nose rubbed in the hipocracy of life.

I recall one time he was getting everyone to participate in a song he was doing with the line, "show me your thumb" sung over and over.

"C'mon people now. Just like at a big rock show... when they hold up their devil horns, I want you to SHOW ME YOUR THUMB!"

So there we are all pressing up against the stage with our thumbs held high and here's how the song ended-

Frank says, "SHOW ME YOUR THUMB, SHOW ME YOUR THUMB, SHOW ME YOUR THUMB if you are dumb."

As he says this last line the band stops cold and Frank turns his back on the audience and walks off stage.

End of concert. Everybody is looking at each other stunned like they'd just been bitch slapped.

Now Stevie on the other hand had 40,000 of us singing the outro of Happy Birthday for 20 minutes after he left the stage as we were filing out of the Cow Palace in San Franciso. It was one of the most memorable concerts of my life for that very reason. He united us in a loving vibe that lasted long after he was done. Strangers were looking in each other's eyes and smiling as they shuffled out of the building and into the neighborhood.

Frank was an angry man with an ascerbic sense of humor who relished in calling people assholes. I'm not surprised that he died of colon cancer.

Imago said:

Most definitely. I find a great deal of emotion in Frank Zappa's catalog
His satirization of American society and Pop Culture was imo very emotion driven.
Even moreso to me personally, and maybe closer to what you were driving at, were many of his instrumentals.



...Watermelon in Easter Hay




...It Must Be A Camel




...Black Napkins


He simply didn't write the more easily understood narrow-cast love/relationship songs that encompass the majority of Stevie Wonder's material.

I know that many people that listen exclusively to Pop music can get uncomfortable with instrumental pieces as there are no lyrics to lead you around by the nose. You create your own "story" based on your imagination.


tA

Tribal Disorder

http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431

where's a good place to start w/ Zappa for the uninitiated?

NoVideo said:

This was recently discussed here:
http://prince.org/msg/8/309297


tA

Tribal Disorder

http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431

Holy shit, Zappa is goooood.

For me it’s everything that they bring to the musical table, and given that ridiculously impossible set of criteria, anyone can be compared no matter how dissimilar.

And for me they both will leave behind totally unique and awesome footprints that will be among the 10 most spacious of the last 50 years in the post-jazz western world.

And does order really matter much after reaching such dizzying heights?

Right now I hold Stevie slightly higher, but only because I’m still working my way through Frank’s entire, ridiculously rich catalog. Things could change with more experience.

Right now I see Frank as being far more prolific than almost anyone on the planet and he did seem to push the artistic boundaries more than Stevie. But Stevie’s run in the 70s might be close to unmatched excellence for me, outside of Dylan in the 60s and Prince in the 80s.

Put simply, I think Frank’s intellect is more obvious. Stevie communicates that intellect through musical language, as he can’t break it down through English the way that Frank could.

The only thing that bothers me is that Frank shows subtle signs of musical snobbery. And I think he’s so fascinatingly intelligent that it’s too bad that he ever limited himself in anyway.

Frank Zappa is already a legend amongst legends, but I think that he could have been even more without that slight chip on his shoulder.

Yeah, if one takes a moon-man objective stare at the mainstream, one will get very frightened by the enormous amount of dysfunction and absolute mediocrity that is routinely embraced.

But that shouldn’t even be his concern. Would he really prefer a world where his particular brand of musical genius was more universally respected? That would kill a good deal of his shtick.

a better comparison would be Stevie Wonder vs.Paul McCartney,no?

theAudience said:

Thanks! Are his CDs still in print? I checked iTunes and amazon.com's download store and the only ones I could find were the "Beat the bootleg" series.

STEVIE WONDER

I've always loved Frank's attitude about life.

NoVideo said:

I don't itune but there's quite a bit of Zappa on Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Fra...mus_dp_pel
(Some especially good deals on used discs)

And there's always his website: http://barfkoswill.shop.m...rt=&page=0


tA

Tribal Disorder

http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431