Moonbeam said:

Imago said:

I don't think there's a more over-rated commodity in music than sincerity. I'm sure that clown from Creed and Sara McLachlan mean every word they sing: their honesty doesn't make them any less repugnant to me. Olvia Newton-John cried on the tonight show when she sang I Honestly Love You: did that elevate her performance into high art? I don't think so.

We all have our own set of musical parameters that please us: I like crude, ugly sounds for the most part myself, and look for groups that fall into that description. They may mean every word, or they could be totally cynical: I don't think the motivation matters, just whether or not they produce something that sounds pleasing to me.

damosuzuki said:

Yes, but that cynacism comes across as genuine. I just can't tolerate Katy Perry pretending to be bisexual just to get a rise out of her man.

Moonbeam said:

Well, I totally understand that, of course. I don't want to get lost in details or anything, but honesty & sincerity have terrible connotations for me. As soon as I hear those words I think of Eddie Vedder wailing and bulging his eyes out and bouncing around so everyone can see how terribly passionate he is, or some acoustic singer-songwriter type moaning about her feelings, and I just absolutely hate that shit!

One person's honesty is another person's bombast & melodrama. We all have our own set of musical qualities that push our buttons. I just object to the use of a word like sincerity, because I find some of the most obnoxious performers are also the most 'sincere' ones.

Just as an example, and for sure the good outweighs the bad, but it could be argued that Prince himself has at least written a triple album of pure crap over the years, maybe more.

Or if you're of the persuasion that (Shock! Horror!) detests Prince and just don't like him period, why the hell should he garner your respect at all just cause he writes and plays aload of music you don't enjoy?

TonyVanDam said:

Oooh yeah get what your saying here

So a talented performer ain't an artist ? They create a sound and they're good at it, so yeah, a performer is an artist as well.

I'll take it a step further, because a majority of artists have a unique trademark sound (singers) or practised much to create their own sound (musicians).
And those qualities aren't supposed to be requirements for an "artist", right ?
[Edited 8/11/09 6:41am]

As long as my ASS is moved, I could care less.

Timmy84 said:

Jackie Wilson never wrote his own music ...

There are so many people that I love that never wrote anything (notable anyway). Imagine a world without Johnnie Taylor, Gladys Knight, Whitney Houston, Patti Labelle, Dionne Warwick, The Spinners, The Temptations, Four Tops, The Supremes, Diana Ross, etc. These people/groups are not known for writing at all, yet they have influenced an entire generation of singers and songwriters.

Anxiety said:

i was gonna say that

As long as they perform it well, who cares.

Bettye LaVette is another artist that I respect, she don't write her own music but you SWORE when you hear her SING a song the way she does, you almost think she did!

actors
directors
dancers
musicians
vocalists

there are tons of people who create brilliant art that they didn't write on their own.

i have a special respect for people who can multi-task - directors who write their own scripts, musicians who write their own music, etc. - but i don't think it needs to be a rule. some people believe that to be the best at ONE craft, they shouldn't split their attention by trying to take on too much. would you rather be the best singer in the world who never writes their own music, or would you rather be a pretty good singer who writes pretty good music and produces their own music pretty well, but doesn't really excel at any of it?

what I have to say about it is in the second post on this thread: http://prince.org/msg/8/315567

(originally in the context of a rebuttal thread asking if Elvis was a great artist, even though he didn't write his own songs):


frankly, I don't understand why people insist on artists doing things that they aren't any good at in order to live up to the standard of being an "artist".

I mean, this is why we have people like Mariah Carey, arguably a great singer (at one time) writing a bunch of bullshit songs and wasting that voice on tripe that she wrote herself because of some aspirations to be considered an artist.

Elvis was a great singer and a great performer and I'm happy to leave it at that. There are a lot of people that aren't great singers, performers, songwriters, or producers trying to do ALL of it and turning out hot garbage left and right.

The singer/performer-songwriter is a relatively new concept in the evolution of music and the expectation of it is probably one of the major contributors to the decline in the popular music in general.

Don't get me wrong, it's great if someone can do it all. But if they can't, then I'm not going to hold it against them if they excel at what they're good at and leave what they're NOT good at to others.

just my 2 cents.
[Edited 8/11/09 11:53am]

Anxiety said:

Exactly, they create a performance

It is hypocritical for anyone to say that they don't respect artists who dont write their own music, because most of the popular artists out there don't write their own stuff. Actors don't write their own material, and most dancers hire a choreographer...to say "I'm not going to listen to them because they have someone else writing their stuff" is pure snobbery. Look at the great singers-Whitney Houston, Christina Aguilera (she writes only some of her stuff), Mariah Carey (the same here-she doesn't write all her material), and others.BTW wasn't this thread started somewhere else?

Yes,

As long as they put their heart and soul into it, and make the stuff 'themselves'

Most classical and jazz-musicians play stuff they don't composed themselves, but they can achieve a lot by expressing themselves in the execution of the material.

I am a lover of traditional folk-songs. Many of these songs were written decades or even centuries ago, and arent even copyrighted. When some current day singer can deliver a convincing or even mesmerizing version of such a song, its something i respect a lot.

Its something different when it comes to the hitmachine / producers-pop field:
The Backstreet Boys and Britney Spears wont be remembered for their music. The same goes for the shit-hop acts (thanks, Vain Andy..lol) who are popular for about 2 - 3 years and disappear into obscurity after that. I have no respect for them as artists whatsoever, like appearing on MTV cribs means a thing.

CalhounSq said:

Yeah cuz lawd knows there's a ton of shitty music being written

does that mean you don't respect songwriters who don't sing? Songwriters like Diane Warren?

I think everyone has a niche to fill.

BklynBabe said:

If the songs are great, they get respect too. But not ALL songwriters at least in these current times have written songs I'm fond of lately.

A great song with a bad artist equals a bad song. The songwriter needs a talented artist to best showcase his work. Imagine Latoya Jackson (for ex) singing "I Will Always Love You" or "Nothing Compare's 2 U".

totaldiva said:

And this is why Whitney Houston and Sinead O'Connor come into the picture. No one wants to do business with Latoya.

Or Janet Jackson

This is such a Prince fan question.

I do respect them.

But I have more respect for those who do.

To make it clear:

Janet Jackson really isnt much of a better singer then shallow Prince protegees like Vanity and Carmen Electra.

She owes her fame to the production of the Jam and Lewis team, and her being a sister of Michael Jackson.

In essence she is a terrible singer with a thin voice who doesnt write her own songs.

Can you respect an actor who doesn't write their own dialogue?

Of course. Artistry is not only about writing and composing. It's also about performance. What a performer can do with their voice and how they interpret a song can be just as powerful (sometimes more) than what another might have written themselves.

Writing your own stuff doesn't guarantee it's any good.

I don't think it is realistic to expect everyone to write their own music.