mimi07 said:

I still think if Invincible was a 10 track album it would have potentially faired better. There were just too many peaks and valleys in the album, and some over the top cringe worthy ballads and oft trod territory.

Swa

Swa said:

yeah, I agree. it's a great 10 track album. and the stuff with the hard beats is just so repetitive. of the first 3 tracks only 1 or 2 of them should have been included. title track can go. Privacy should have been left off in favor of Threatened. and 2000 Watts while initially kind of exciting sounding is very much b-side material the more you hear it.

of the stuff that's actually ON the album, these would be my picks for a 10 track album. and that doesn't even include the extra stuff that was included on the Ultimate Collection, or One More Chance or the outtakes:

Unbreakable
Heartbreaker
Break Of Dawn
Heaven Can Wait
You Rock My World
Butterflies
Speechless
Don't Walk Away
Whatever Happens
Threatened

I think the track order would have to be re-shuffled, maybe a "fast side" and a "slow side" but these are the best ones on there I think.

errant said:

Nice selection. I actually did an ipod playlist of Invincible as a 10 track album and it plays out like this....

Unbreakable
Heartbreaker
Butterflies
Threatened
Whatever happens
You Rock My World
Break of Dawn
Speechless
Cry
Heaven Can Wait

Swa

errant said:

That's similar to what I'd do. It's obvious Invincible is way too long, but as a fan I want as much music as possible. I'd make it an 11- or 12-track album and use most of the leftovers as b-sides. My picks:

1. Unbreakable
2. Heartbreaker
3. Break of Dawn
4. Heaven Can Wait
5. You Rock My World
6. Butterflies
7. Speechless
8. You Are My Life
9. Privacy
10. Don't Walk Away
11. Cry
12. Whatever Happens

The 1st b-side would be Shout, then Threatened, then Invincible. 2000 Watts could an additional b-side of released later. For the 11-track version, remove Speechless and make it a b-side.

Poll: Jackson Will Be Remembered for Music

CBS News Survey Finds Two In Three Americans Believes King Of Pop Will Be Remembered For Music Rather Than Personal Troubles

(CBS) Americans believe Michael Jackson will be remembered more for his music than his personal troubles, a newly-released CBS News poll finds.

The survey found that 66 percent of those surveyed say the so-called "King Of Pop" will be remembered more for his legendary singing and dancing than for the plastic surgery, child sexual abuse charges and erratic behavior of his later years.

By contrast, one in four Americans say memories of that behavior will eclipse memories of Jackson's music.

Jackson's contemporaries - Americans between the ages of 45 and 64 - were most likely to say the pop star will be most remembered for his music, with 73 percent indicating as much. Jackson died at age 50.

A sizable chunk of Americans feel that Jackson was not treated fairly by the media, the poll finds. More than one in three say the media were harder on Jackson than other celebrities.

But the criticism also goes in the other directions: One in five Americans say the press was easier on Jackson. Forty-two percent said the media treated Jackson about the same as other celebrities.

source: http://www.cbsnews.com/st...5832.shtml
[Edited 8/3/09 6:27am]

Swa said:

You thought Speechless was weak? The song made me cry. When I first heard it, I was like WTF MJ!! Then I grew to love it.

Well first I said "weakest". But yes first hearing it I thought it was beautiful at the a capella parts opening and closing the song, but then it goes into an over the top disneyesque arrangement that just makes me cringe.

Over time I've learnt to appreciate it, and if it was just purely a capella I would have a different opinion of it.

Swa

Swa said:

Cry does the same to me, worse. It's just cloying. Speechless, on the other hand, thanks to the acapella parts feels like a more raw, naked actual emotion than some Disney production trying to emulate emotion, a la Cry.

Bump for Swa.

They played Bad on the radio the other day, and then I watched the video.

I think it may rank as one of the most godawfullest stupidst songs of all time! I remember cringing the first time I heard it as a young girl and I STILL cringe. I hate the choreography too. I also really despise The Way You Make Me Feel. And that vid completely skeezes me every time watching chase that poor bony girl. Both of them needed to stop running and go get a sammich or something. And Black Or White! Uggh.

Now my favorite songs:
Remember The Time
Human Nature
Lady In My Life
She's Out Of My Life
Rock With You
Off The Wall
Baby Be Mine
Liberian Girl
Scream
Don't Stop Til You get Enough

I'm more pro Prince than pro MJ, but MJ could work a ballad...and he had that innocent thing about him. And that cute smile

^I think part of the appeal of "Bad" is the fact that it is so cringe-worthy. It's blatently over-the-top and not supposed to be taken seriously. It's almost as if MJ's taking the mickey out of that 80s punk stereotype - those fools that hang around thinking their "bad ass".

I remember I used to hate the idea that Prince was asked to be in this video. But looking back on it now, I think it could have been really cool - again in a totally cringe-worthy and over-the-top way. Both Prince and MJ were at the peak of their game at that time and 'watercooler conversations' were all about "Who's the baddest - MJ or Prince?". It would have been funny as all hell watching these two girly soul brothers fight it out on a NYC subway dance floor .

BklynBabe said:

You can't stand 'em, huh?

To be honest, this is how I first remembered MJ as a guy who would go HOO! and CHUMON! And WHO'S BAD?!

Looking back, it's like the "Bad"-era MJ was way different from the "Thriller" and "Off the Wall"-era MJs. It's like three different people inside one man!

toejam said:

Yea Bad was when MJ started to become a parady of his former self. I know alot of fans liked him best during this era, however these are usual fans that came to know him around that time. I think the Bad era MJ was the beginning of how MJ ended up. Everything had changed about him completely by that time, from his looks to the music. I mean apart from songs like Man in the Mirror and Can't Stop looking you his R&B roots had completely disappeared during this era and he never really got that sound back.

I laugh when I hear people call Smooth Criminal or Speed Demon funky. They don't understand the meaning of funk if they think that was funk. By the time BaD Came out I was in my late teens going to clubs and I never heard one song from the Bad album played at a club(I must admit these were urban clubs) yet DJs wouldn't hesistate to put things from the Destiny or even the Jacksons album
out and peeps will dance.

I actually really like Cry, its easily one of the better songs on Invincible, that and Butterflies are some of his best ballads ever.
Another two songs that are overlooked, are Fly Away (A Bad era outake, which is on the remastered version of it) and For all time, on Thriller 25, although its thought it may be a dnagerous outake. Both are gorgeous warm ballads, as well as being funky with his uptempo pop, he was really was an amazing ballad singer.

It's been pretty much all been said on this thread so far, so good job guys.

But what about his 'official' remixes?

I heard Michael wasn't overly keen on remixes believing the original should stand on it's own, but i thought he did a great job on courting the top remixers of the day back in the 90's.

Roger Sanchez' remix of 'Don't Stop' possibly being one of my favourites.
It comes across as totally respectful of the original, unlike say Moby's 'Sub-mix of 'Beat It'. Horrible.

Marrk said:

I think Tony Moran's HIStory is amazing

whatsgoingon said:

I agree, I'm a bit blown away by the BAD fanbase on mj fan boards. i was hoping i guess if he lived long enough he'd go full circle back to embracing his roots. i can't really listen to his "screaming" songs aside from a small handfull.

butterflies is underrated it's such a pretty track

I've said it before and I'll say it again: this is the only version of "Bad" that matters:




[Edited 8/7/09 12:05pm]

is a jacksons song i love but people never seem to mention
[Edited 8/7/09 12:10pm]

dearmother said:

It's allowed.

AlexdeParis said:

i remember practically wearing the grooves out on the 12inch. That shit was hot.

I remember a version of BAD over the end credits of an MJ TV special when the video came out, had it on VHS for years, as happens it got lost. it was a kind of dub version that i never heard anywhere else.

i would love to hear that again.

dearmother said:

The whole album is quality, it is my first conscious MJ memory, putting that album on my dads 'music centre' in the summer of '76. could well be the beginning of my fandom!

dearmother said:

You're kidding, right? It was my #1 all-time song featuring MJ.

The top 20 again:

20. Who Is It
19. In the Closet
18. Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'
17. Off the Wall
16. Heartbreak Hotel - The Jacksons
15. Beat It
14. Say Say Say - with Paul McCartney
13. P.Y.T. (Pretty Young Thing)
12. Who's Lovin' You - The Jackson 5
11. The Love You Save - The Jackson 5

10. Rock With You
9. You Can't Win (12" Mix)
8. Man in the Mirror
7. Stranger in Moscow
6. Remember the Time
5. Billie Jean
4. Never Can Say Goodbye - The Jackson 5
3. Human Nature
2. I Wanna Be Where You Are
1. Show You the Way to Go - The Jacksons

nice!! his voice is so sexy in it

Marrk said:

I personally like the Moby mix of Beat It - it took it to another place for me. Which is what a remix should do whilst still containing original elements.

One one pet peeve with remixes though (across all artists) is when they take a ballad and turn it into a "dance track" it just sounds like some tragic ballroom dancing effort - You are Not Alone anyone? lol.

Swa

I think my original copy of Dangerous sounds great. Had it since 1991.

To my knowledge, the special edition did not offer any bonus songs or even commentary from Teddy Riley.

I am wondering if there are any differences besides "remastering" (which I'm not sure many 90s albums require).

Swa said:

I don't mind ballads turned into dance mixes... they can be fun. The ones I hate, and there are so many of them these days, are when the remixer basically just comes up with their own repetitive club track and doesn't leave anything from the original in it, has nothing to do with the song and doesn't include any of the lyrics (or only a few phrases repeated ad nauseum).

Cinnie said:

it was originally going to come with a bonus disc of outtakes that was scrapped. that stuff has leaked and it's fantastic!

Marrk said:

Yup, known as 'Bad Reprise' by many - it's around someplace on fan boards etc - was played over end credits of the original showing of the video.

The video also has some interesting elements - an extended Jimmy Smith/Greg solo section, and incredible additional beatboxing on the rear left channel on the 5.1 mix. I'd love to get that without all the video FX, claps and so on.