VoicesCarry said:

where are the photos of her doing hot rails off on of her dancers ass or dropping some e?

AlexdeParis said:

I remember I loved the Erotica song so much and then I bought the album and it was so difficult for me to like it. Probably I have played it more than any other Madonna album so I will like it but didn't work. I do like several songs from there but as a whole I think it is pretty weak. The songs I like are Erotica, Where Life Begins, Bad Girl, Waiting, Thief Of Hearts and Secret Garden. Words, Fever, Why's It So Hard and In This Life are OK too

"Celebration" DVD details added to Amazon.com!!!

Format: NTSC
Number of discs: 2
Run Time: 180 minutes

So i was listening to Celebration on the way to work this morning, and got to thinking that it represents something of a nadir for her. I think its a good song. Catchy, i love the bridge, and her vocals are pretty clear and strong. Its got lazy lyrics, but she's not written any decent ones for quite a while anyway. My main problem with it, is that it is the laziest thing she has ever done.

Everything is so "paint by numbers" its sickening and frustrating, because there is the bare bones of a really strong single there, and with more work, and some extra detail it could be really magical. A little more oomph to the music, more detail - some guitar licks, a better drum track, some backing singers to really heighten the celebratory feel of the song. I hope this is just because its a project Madonna doesnt really feel connected to, and not because she has lost interest in recording.

Over the last few years her albums have been varied in terms of this kind of attention to detail. I dont expect her to be cutting edge any more, but at least to make it sound like she's put some thought and effort into it.

stevenpottle said:

That should be around 36 videos yeah?

CrozzaUK said:

My theory is,maybe she's saving her good ideas for her next album? That album will be her Live Nation debut album,so there will be alot of pressure on her to come up with something outstanding.She will have to deliver.The songs "Celebration" and "Revolver" are contractual filler.She's fulfilling her final obligations to Warners,so perhaps she didn't feel an urgency to come up with something really good.She recorded these songs between breaks from her grueling tour rehearsals.The song "Celebration" was recorded in one day.I think she just went into the studio,listened to music that Paul Oakenfold had already recorded,grabbed a notebook and wrote down the lazy lyrics."Revolver" was basically already written and recorded before it got to her.Make no mistake,she's just fulfilling a contractual obligation.

When you think about it,she did the exact same thing in 1990.'The Immaculate Collection' contained two new songs ("Justify My Love" and "Rescue Me") but those two songs aren't really outstanding,either."JML" doesn't even feature singing...lol...she's just talking over a programmed beat! I liked it at the time,but let's be honest,it is a lazy song.Maybe she just doesn't like the idea of greatest hits compilations,and therefore,doesn't feel the need to submit some truly amazing new tracks?

jiorjios said:

Other than "Bad Girl" and "Deeper and Deeper," the only songs I really like are "In This Life," "Erotica," and "Rain." In particular, "Words," "Thief of Hearts," and "Bye Bye Baby" all bore me. Too much of Erotica sounds like a poor man's "Justify My Love." "Justify My Love" was a great idea for a song, but it doesn't really work as the theme for a whole album.

heartbeatocean said:

I guess so. My favorite Madonna album is definitely Ray of Light. Confessions and Madonna round out the top 3. Those are her only albums that I really enjoy from start to finish.

SoulAlive said:

What? Justify My Love is a great song (even if it is mostly spoken) and Rescue Me is great too. OK it sounds a bit similar to Vogue but so did most of her next studio album Erotica.

jiorjios said:

"Rescue Me" is unispired filler."Justify My Love" is interesting and I did like it at the time but looking back,it's not even much of a song Madonna didn't put alot of effort into those songs.I think that she only feels inspired/motivated when she's doing an actual album,and not just a few new songs tacked onto the end of a compilation.

SoulAlive said:

I completely disagree about Rescue Me. The lyrics are great and it became a smash hit without even a video. In fact I might buy again TIC just because my copy has been scratched at the Rescue Me song. I am just waiting for the prize to go down after Celebration comes out. I know most people don't like the song much because of the lyrical similarity to Deee-Lite's Power Of Love and due to the fact that it sounds like reversed Vogue (talking in the beginning. singing in the end) but I just love it. Chart-wise it is Madonna's third biggest UK single from the ones released without a proper video (behind Holiday and Hanky Panky) and her fourth biggest US single among the ones released without a proper video (behind Angel, Causing A Commotion and Keep It Together) so it can't be that bad

I love Rescue Me. One of the best Madonna songs I've heard.

Erotica had some really well made songs, and is probably one of Madonna's most overlooked albums.

jiorjios said:

see, to me In This Life is maybe the most dire thing on it and the album version of Fever is just very ho-hum. the video remix is teh hotness, though

my favorites:

Deeper And Deeper
Bad Girl
Rain
Words
Secret Garden
Waiting
Thief Of Hearts

SoulAlive said:

I totally agree with that. Why come up with some classics for this set. I doubt other than the video that we are going to get Madonna doing any real promo for this set. That might change on the next new album. I hope the collbo with Oakenfield is a one off. It's not very inspired but it's fun.

jiorjios said:

I liked "Rescue Me" a lot but haven't listened to it in years (kind of haven't listened to "The Immaculate Collection" in years...if I get an 120G Ipod, I might the whole album on there). I wouldn't call it filler. It could be a bit tighter but the lyrics are great.

why any new songs on the discs themselves anway? they ought to make greatest hits albums with actual hits and no new material on them and package the bonus tracks on a seperate CD. included in the package as a limited edition type of thing for the first pressings and then as it becomes a catalog item, the definitive greatest hits collection isn't saddled 10 years later with some one-off crap that she (or the artist in general) came up with off the top of her head that has no hope of being a hit in any way shape or form.

make them bonus tracks for digital downloads of the album. package them as a bonus disc with the initial pressings. sell it as a single and maxi single too, but don't saddle a career-defining greatest hits album with new stuff that is barely even going to be promoted.


i can't even imagine why there are TWO new tracks on here instead of just one. anyone truly expect Revlover to get any push whatsoever? i'd be surprised if the promotion of this album even gets to the stage of there being a second single released to promote it.

errant said:

according to Madonna.com both tracks are produced by Paul Oakenfield so the second track is not Revolveer

graecophilos said:

Just skimming the thread, but I'm shocked to read such realistic posts coming from Madonna fans. Madonna's music has never been the same since she stopped working with real songwriters. My only question would be, since you know this, why the hell are you still fans? She's got to be the naffest artist in pop music.

midnightmover said:

What a silly post. So because people don't like every single album an artist does, that means they should stop being fans and it shows the artist is naff? Artists are humans who make mistakes. I don't know of any artist whose every song and album is perfect and a brilliant work of art. Overall, Madonna has done some great work. I do wish she would go back to doing deeper things and not just fun dance music, to prove the haters like you wrong that she does have something substantial to contribute.
I guess you are shocked that people can be reasonable and not think an artist is either a perfect genius or a no talent nothing, which is how I guess you view most artists.

midnightmover said:

Even in a total career lull, she's still streets ahead of alot of the hideously insipid pop acts out there. Not all of them - but alot of them. Pop music in general isn't what it used to be. In a sense, how she is working now is no different than how she did when came through, writing with Steve Bray. he made dance tracks and she wrote songs over them.

Admittedly she was catapulted into the big time by some songs written by big league songwriting teams, but the pattern of her career has been to work with DJs and remixers - not songwriters. Pat Leonard was a musician and musical director, whom she started writing songs with, not an established songwriter who fed her with songs.

I simply think the producers she chooses now approach music with a totally different sensibility, and creatively i think she's in a bit of a dry spot. She needs to change things up a bit, and i think a more classic approach to music and the songs would give her that.

Glindathegood said:

Her music was mediocre from Erotica onwards. She herself was boring throughout the '90s. In the '00s she switched from being boring to suddenly being unbelievably naff and corny. I would never have known it was even possible to be as dorky as she has been over the last decade. And her music shared this journey from competent blandness in the '90s to inept and cringe-worthy naffness in the '00s.

But we're mixing separate issues here. The real point was that she is not a good enough songwriter to excel without collaborating with real writers. Her best songs have always been either written entirely by others or written in collaboration with skilled songwriters. Since Erotica she has just written songs over producers' tracks, and the results have been pretty poor. The better songs since then have always been when real songwriters have done the melodies. Some of her fans seem to be aware of this. Others not.

CrozzaUK said:

There is no artist out there at the moment who is as naff as Madonna. Her dancing has got to be some of the most cringe worthy I've seen anywhere at any time. Her voice is now the most hideous sounding thing in the business, which is quite an accomplishment. Her attempts to sound intelligent in interviews frequently leave the educated racing for the sick bucket. Her grinding onstage with former Mickey Mouse club member and MJ wannabe Justin Timberlake was the perfect encapsulation of just what a joke she has become.

I'm trying to think of something positive to say here. I'll have to get back to you....
[Edited 8/4/09 11:23am]

midnightmover said:

See my post above. Shes always written songs over producers tracks. Pat Leonard was not an established songwriter before he started working with her. He was more of a musician and musical director.....she started working with Stuart Price in exactly the same way. I would agree certain producers lend themselves to constructing songs better than others, but only a handful of tracks have been given to her:
Holiday
Borderline
Like A Virgin
Material Girl
Crazy For You
Papa Dont Preach
Open Your Heart
Justify My Love

midnightmover said:

This is a bitter Cyndi Lauper fan. That's just about all that needs to be said. As great of a talent as Cyndi is, does her recent dance album, her first studio album in umpteen years, really sound all that much better?

midnightmover said:

totally subjective. what i dont like is your assertion that people who still follow her, are in some way blinded to all her shortcomings, or they in someway worship this false god. No one ever states she is the greatest artist on the planet - but she is in no way as bad as you make out. She's not what she once was, but the fact you dismiss her 90s work just shows how far apart our opinions are on this, so there's no point in continuing it further.

CrozzaUK said:

You missed out "La Isla Bonita" and "Dress You Up". Many of these tracks are all-time career highlights. And Patrick Leonard may not have been an established songwriter before he met Madge, but he clearly showed himself to be a master of melody. The fact that Madonna managed to nab him first is yet another example of just how freakishly lucky she's been in her career. Like Damon in The Omen films she almost seems to have some supernatural help from the darkest pits of hell looking out for her interests. Although they never did get round to making her happy. Those crazy arms of hers are testament to an unsatisfied person overcompensating in the gym for deeper insecurities.

CrozzaUK said:[quote]

midnightmover said:

See my post above. Shes always written songs over producers tracks. Pat Leonard was not an established songwriter before he started working with her. He was more of a musician and musical director.....she started working with Stuart Price in exactly the same way. I would agree certain producers lend themselves to constructing songs better than others, but only a handful of tracks have been given to her:
Holiday
Borderline
Like A Virgin
Material Girl
Crazy For You
Papa Dont Preach
Open Your Heart
Justify My Love[/quote

Girls Just Wanna Have Fun
True Colors
I Drove All Night
Hole In My Heart That Goes All The Way To China
(not to mention all the covers)

VinnyM27 said:

This has nothing to do with Cyndi Lauper. I only really rediscovered Cyndi in late 2003 and my feelings about Madonna started before then. Around about when American Life was released. I'd tuned out from her years earlier, but only then did it hit me just what a boil on the butt hole of music she really was.

VinnyM27 said:[quote]

CrozzaUK said:

You're barking up the wrong tree. I'm serious about music and would never dislike someone over something so petty as fan jealousy. Perhaps you are reaching for shallow explanations because you yourself are shallow. That's fine, but don't make the mistake of thinking everyone else is the same.