midnightmover said:

But tabloid rumours can be given as fact?

Swa

And here we go again... lol.

I am assuming that your argument in a

nutshell is

This sounds rational enough, and I think you would find most fans would agree in part with you. Makes me wonder what all the back and forth was for in the first place.

You seemed hung up on the whole he just sings due to dancing defence, that as you'll notice from my first post was not what I was ever stating. I asserted it may have begun that way, then you informed me of what songs were mimed in the later parts of the BAD tour, and I agreed then that those songs weren't intensive dancing and thus we probably due more to strain on the vocals and/or laziness. A point you don't even address, yet claim I am dodging your point of view.

I've stated repeatedly that I think the reason for the lipsynching is a mix of a decline in his voice and a need for perfection. I've seen a lot of great shows in my time and have noticed a lot of singers have their voices worn by the time it comes to the later part of the show (especially if it's a 90 minute + show). Some of my most favourite acts sound hoarse by the end of the night. It's a fact of performing. So as I have often stated when you throw a mix of Michael's decline in vocals, physical fitness due to the dance routines, potential laziness, and pressure for perfection it's perhaps understandable that in his mind he sees lipsynching as a way of giving the fans what (in his mind) they want and putting on a great show. I think it's a combination of all these factors, wouldn't you agree?

And I personally take offense at being called dishonest for being right. As for knowing where TWYMMF and MITM were in the setlist, I honetsly didn't know. Like I am aware he performed Dirty Diana and Another Part of Me live during the Bad tour, but don't know if they were song 7 or song 12. I just know when he toured Australia he introduced I just can't stop loving you and Bad as the final two songs. So I made the logical assumption that the inclusion of these two songs might have been encores. Then you have a go at me for being correct? And you call me dishonest for making a correct assumption?

Also I reviewed your I'll Be There clip and agree it's not a great performance. No denying that. As I mentioned for every bad clip, good to great clips will also be put forward. And as I mentioned the show I went to when he sang live it was great.
Here is a clip from that show of I'll Be There for comparisson.





Here is a clip of Michael ad libing Earth Song from 96 that I was thinking of.



No denying that when he sings he still draws you in.

Anyway, I am not deliberately trying to inflame you or convince you of anything. All I have been trying to do is offer an expanded reasoning behind the lipsynching.

I guess we will see where Michael's voice is at during the upcomming shows, should he realise that what excites the fans more than any song and dance number are those moments of spontaneity that comes from a true live performance.

Swa
[Edited 6/19/09 19:24pm]

suga10 said:

RAAARE! im so mad that they only upload 30 second clips!

suga10 said:

That first paragraph is sad, it's gotta be hard for singers when their voice doesn't work how they want it to anymore.

Swa said:

I can confirm that he went to a London clinic on the Dangerous tour (not the Bad tour) for suspected nodules on his vocal chords. He postponed the Istanbul concert as a result. This information is in "The Visual Documentary" by Adrian Grant, but there's nothing about what treatment he received.
[Edited 6/19/09 22:26pm]

i think some people didn't believe me when i said a load of MJ tickets were kept back so they could announce the shows as sold out as they didn't think i had inside info, but i told you all that i would be proved right about it

NaughtyKitty said:

Whom, pray tell?

all Vaccaro is doing is taking small clips of videos that are ALREADY on Youtube and putting them on his site, acting like they're new and rare...

The first concert at the O2 on Monday July 13 will be attended by a host of celebs.

Not according to this http://www.michaeljackson.../dates.php
Looks like the 16th will be the first night now?

Henry Vaccarro, a businessman who has been trying to make money off of the Jackson's old possessions for years lol! He does have some rare stuff, but he puts up photos of all his stuff on a lame pay-per-view website making folks pay to see what all he has



Yes, however this is the first time I've seen that Captain EO clip in such high quality...I have that clip that I downloaded from another MJ messageboard and its really crappy quality. Same goes for the Moonwalker clip. Do you know where could watch the full program in high-quality?

NaughtyKitty said:

which is why one person bought a membership and we all used that shit til they caught on. I was printscreening for a good couple of hours

Yeah, all that stuff is in high quality on Youtube

alot of Japanese fans have been sharing stuff

Making of Captain EO (Japanese version)
http://www.youtube.com/wa...me6XKPxPwQ
http://www.youtube.com/wa...ExBO-JVAQ4
http://www.youtube.com/wa...JcMtNzZjKo

Jam in Fukuoka '93
http://www.youtube.com/wa...-yGuNa9YOc

Wembley '88
http://www.youtube.com/wa...Hx5v547Ajk

Bad Tour Tokyo opening night
http://www.youtube.com/wa...NthB3D9j00


Making of Moonwalker
http://www.youtube.com/wa...LGdpG3vpw8
http://www.youtube.com/wa...GsvISTn1AI
http://www.youtube.com/wa...VeQoWTQ64U

bboy87 said:

Yep! She gave me her password to that site and I checked out the stuff on his website too! But I think ol' Henry must've caught on cuz he shut down her account like a day later. But by then fans like you had saved alot of the stuff and posted it in the tread so we all could see it I bet Henry was pissed! Thanks for the Youtube links!

NaughtyKitty said:

Yeah, Nikki, that's my homegirl

Yeah, he shut it down but by then, we got all the pictures and then TSCM posted them in high quality and without the watermark

Was opening night originally the 8th then the 13th? Now it's the 16th? I'm

JackieBlue said:

BS! It still is on the 13th... all 4 shows, which have been postponed, have the "rescheduled" tag... also the last 3 in march!

PatrickS77 said:

I was just checking. I know my friend has opening night and if it was moved I was wondering what he was gonna do. He still havsn't recovered from the rescheduled shows.

JackieBlue said:

I got people bootlegging it for me

bboy87 said:

Can't wait for your review in particular.

i think some people didn't believe me when i said a load of MJ tickets were kept back so they could announce the shows as sold out as they didn't think i had inside info, but i told you all that i would be proved right about it

Nothing. as always.

They hold back seats ALL the time as that's just how it works. How do you think I got front row at Prince on the day of the shows about 8 times. Not just Prince too, many a time I've logged on to ticket sites and ended up with the best seats in the house at some concert on an impromptu browse.

It's really shitty how the ticket process works now with these ridiculous VIP packages set out for the promoters to make as much money as possible. They take advantage of the mugs who will spend up to £1000 on a ticket and then they take the unsold ones back to the box office to finally open up to the public.

That's also why if you go to some big arena show, more often than not the biggest party will be at the back in the crap seats - that's where all the hardcore [but not wealthy] fans are that panicked and bought what they could get on the first day. Poor sods.

Ellie said:

True. It is becoming an increasingly familiar practice, due in part to generate extra buzz closer to the date, but also from a true logistic point of view that becomes apparent once the physical footprint of the staging is realises.

Also another great chance to play is to turn up to the box office the night of the show and ask what seats are available. These days you'll find promoters / record companies keep a decent block to hand out as complimentary seats to their associates etc. Most nights not all will go, so you can end up with a great seat if you are lucky.

Swa