I think Prince and Ms. Palmer are on opposite ends of the spectrums in-terms of age, accomplishments, audience, music careers and temperament. Through out Prince's career he's been aloof/unapproachable to fans and media. So, could you really see him talking to his fans while he unpacks on Twitter, please? This is a fifty/one year old man who's been on the scene for 30 years plus years. I'd think you should know by now what your getting, take or leave it.
[Edited 4/9/09 3:18am]

If only Prince had the insight 2 maintain a 31 year career.....

I'm going to list everything I can think of that Prince has done in the last five years. I invite anyone to do the same for NIN or whoever the hell Amanda Fucking Palmer is (that's the way she refers to herself on her website).

2004
Grammys
Rock and Roll Hall of Fame induction, including jaw-dropping performances
Musicology tour - Top concert draw of the year, with the lowest ticket prices by FAR
Included Musicology CD with each ticket
Art of Musicology shown on THREE separate networks
Tavis Smiley interview
NPGMC website going strong
Five Grammy nominations; two wins

2005
SST and Brand New Orleans
NPGMC still releasing music
OK, it was a slow year

2006
Saturday Night Live performance
Released 3121 - it debuts at #1
Three videos - "Te Amo Corazon"; "Black Sweat"; "Fury"
Held concert in his home for lucky ticket winners (any of y'all ever been in Trent Reznor or Amanda Fucking Palmer's home?)
Numerous TV appearances, including American Idol, Good Morning America, Brit Award, BET Awards. Played pretty much the entire 3121 album on one show or another
Ultimate Prince CD released; includes B-sides
Contributed "Song of the Heart" for the movie Happy Feet
Opened Club 3121 at the Rio Hotel, performing most weekends and adding aftershows on most nights
Won a Webby Award, then shut down the NPGMC
Inducted into UK Rock Hall of Fame
3121 Web magazine
Various photos, articles and performance videos displayed on 3121.com

2007
Continued 3121 at Rio Hotel
The Super Bowl. Let me know when Trent Reznor and/or Amanda Fucking Palmer play it
The ALMA Awards, performed with Sheila E and others
Released Planet Earth through ingenious free give-away in London Sunday paper
Played three shows in July 7 in Minneapolis in connection with release of 3121 perfume
21 Nights in London. $20 million in ticket sales. Not a bad month.
14 aftershows

2008
The Tonight show, premiering "Turn Me Loose"
Headlined the Coachella concert
Released the book 21 Nights, along with Indigo Nights, a companion CD of aftershow performance

2009
Released three CDs of new music for $11.98.
Launched new website
Three consecutive nights on Leno
It's only April

I probably forgot a bunch of stuff, especially TV appearances and various parties. Also, I don't have the Roosevelt Hotel run in there.

But you get the point.

RodeoSchro said:

But... but... she's Amanda Fucking Palmer and she's so cool dude!! All the indie kids love her!!!!!

aalloca said:

-----
He has the #2 CD is the country explain how he is not having success.

NoVideo said:

Yes.....all 6 of them.

RodeoSchro said:

People will still look at this and think he hasn't done anything worthwhile. Man I say fuck them and lets keep it moving as Prince is doing right now.

i cant believe you guys still fall for Bart's flame.

and he's still managed to hit the top 5 with his 4 most recent albums.

RodeoSchro said:

Got it. Quantity > Quality.

Of course you left out such fun stuff like:

Sold music/video files on NPGMC that are now essentially useless thanks to DRM protection.
Charged for a "lifetime" membership to a website, then closed the site a few months short of a "lifetime".
Was responsible for the formation of Prince Fans United after a few fan sites got tired of being bullied.
Harassed Housequake into oblivion.

I'm sure there's more, but I don't really commit much of this shit (either positive and negative) to memory - only in rebuttal.

But i'm sure Bart has spreadsheets filled with this stuff...

Oh, and I could give two shits whether Trent (or whomever Amanda Fucking Palmer is) plays the superbowl or invites me to their house.

Though, if Trent has any props from "Broken" in his house, I don't think i'd wanna visit anyways...

really, rebutting bart's complaint by talking about how great prince's music is only sort of provides foundation for what bart is saying.

can you imagine what it would be like if prince handled his content the was trent reznor has?

seriously, check out nin.com and its features.

can you imagine how awesome such a thing would be, populated with prince's work, both released and unreleased?

this thread is absolutely not about the comparative quality of prince, nin and amanda palmer. it's about how these younger artists are finding new and engaging ways to interact with their audiences and connect with new fans. their online activities are building added value into their brands. the fans are able to really invest in the work.

tell you me you wouldn't like to create authorized fan edited live videos of prince concerts.

stanleylieber said:

Pre-fuckin-cisely. It amuses me to no end the way Prince "fams" react to the comparison between P and Trent's internet presences/fan interactions by rattling off a laundry list of his past stats (almost as ridiculous as a Mariah Carey press release touting how she's sold/had more #1's than Elvis or the Beatles).

How 'bout comparing the innovative things the two have done and which they've done successfully? Or, as stanley said, how 'bout comparing how the two have found "new and engaging ways to interact with their audiences and connect with new fans"? Or the ways they've let fans interact with each other and fostered communities brought together by their artistry?

It's true that P was innovative in his time, but he's dropped that ball a long time ago and doesn't seem to learn from his mistakes (see: Lotusflow3r.com). And while it's not personally P's fault that the website had many glitches (i'm sure he didn't write the code), he's the one that hired the duo that did.

stanleylieber said:

Man, I could never imagine such nirvana.

stanleylieber said:

Exactly. Fans get hypersensitive. Its not a diss to Prince that other artists have good ideas and utilize technology but some on here instantly take everything as an offense if it didn't come from or was said by Prince.
I honestly think if Prince killed a baby, some of these fanbots would find a way to defend him and blame the baby.
Prince isn't really getting many "new" fans because most of the younger generation have no interest in his music other than as a marker of respect for what he's done. They don't party to Prince records. Prince is for the 30+ crowd and the few youngsters who are neo-retro.
It is for this reason that Prince would probably never Twitter with his fans/friends/whatever. If he did, it'd be more of the babble that he spits at every other opportunity he gets. Its probably a GOOD thing Prince doesn't twitter.

xlr8r said:

Yet another fam who is obsessed with me. But *I* am the nutcase.

Oh, and FYI: I know of a fan who has been banned at just about any Prince forum. He was invited to Prince's house recently.

Rogue588 said:

Quantity of performances is the key. The point of this thread is that Prince does not have the insight of Amanda Fucking Palmer. That Prince doesn't "get it", and therefore his fans suffer. But as my list clearly shows, when it comes to output from Prince, we aren't suffering at ALL. Hell, we've got it pretty damn good.

I went to Amanda Fucking Palmer's website, and it's mainly her blog. To be honest, I could not care less about what Amanda Fucking Palmer does during the day, or how she feels about meatloaf. I can't dance to how Amanda Fucking Palmer feels about meatloaf.

If Prince blogged about what's on his mind, you know what the response would be? "Quit spouting your stupid JW stuff!!!!!" 'Cause THAT is what Prince would blog about.

He shares his thoughts with his music. THAT is what it's all about. How come no one gives Prince credit for staying out of the public eye when it comes to anything other than releasing music? Hell, I absolutely LOVE Bruce Springsteen and agree with his politics, but I'm not a big fan of him hitting all the talk shows to espouse his view. I'd MUCH rather have him writing about what matters, and putting out music that gets his message across.

That's what Prince does. I guess we take it for granted.

The other point - that Amanda Fucking Palmer "connects" with her fans in ways that Prince can't. Well, when Amanda Fucking Palmer can sell 140,000 tickets in 20 minutes using Twitter, then you will finally be able to say that Amanda Fucking Palmer gets it as well as Prince does.

Yeah, really. Good point.

Who the hell wants to see Prince twitter or blog? The dribs and drabs of "message" we get from him are more than enough.

The more direct interaction there is between Prince and his fanbase, the less likeable the guy is.

Please. Keep him at a distance. Do not let him anywhere near twitter, a blog, a forum, or even an email account.

Though I have no love for the music industry or the status quo, I really do sometimes miss the middle man when it comes to Prince

BlaqueKnight said:

i agree with this.

errant said:

i agree with this but i think we're in danger of missing the forest for the trees. it's not so much that prince should literally blog. it's just that he seems to have a real 20th century approach to the internet. it's incredibly possible now to do the kinds of things he talked about back in the '90s, but, for whatever reason, he's still not doing them.

the comparisons with nin, amanda palmer, etc. don't mean he should literally do the exact things that they're doing. it's just pointing out that these artists have found unique ways to build positive relationships with their fanbases that seem to be making everyone (artist and fans) happy. the artists are making money and the fans are getting lots of great content and aren't being harassed to the point that they stop being fans.

i don't think it's an insult to suggest that prince could learn from their example.

The difference between Prince and virtually every other artist that does the whole online thing infinitely better than him is that Prince is a megastar, even if he sells less music these days. He DOESN'T have to do the whole online thing because he doesn't really need to in order to sustain his career. He has the back catalog and the money plus his place in the public consciousness is set, even if to many hes associated with the 1980's. Virtually every other act has had to adapt to save their careers and to survive and new acts need the internet to get noticed.
[Edited 4/9/09 7:54am]
[Edited 4/9/09 7:54am]

laurarichardson said:

Please don't get super sensitive. Selling 175K albums in a very weak marketplace is not selling 1 million records. What will next weeks' sales be? Could they be improved with embracing another technology. I read here that the torrent of the albums did not have a stellar pull either, so sales are not being lost to illegal downloads... Also remember the Eagles and Ac/DC sold like 500k in their 1st weeks with their Exclusive deals. The 2 Prince albums are decent releases IMO, and deserve to be heard.

All I am saying is, it wouldn't hurt to possible consider some of the methods I listed. That's all, I am not comparing his quality as a musician or artist, I talking strictly business models.
[Edited 4/9/09 10:39am]

I'm gonna sound real old. But I just don't get the point of Twitter. As far as I can tell it seems like it's for people who have nothing better to do than ask 'what are you doing', etc. Sure it may be good for up and coming artists like this Amanda Palmer person to annouce impromtu appearances but seriously most of Pinces' fans are 35 or older. Sorry but most of us in this age group are not going to drop everything at the drop of a hat to run to some park/record store/parking lot because Prince says he's there twiddling his thumbs and bored.

Bart, fess up, you don't even like the Gold Experience. Shush.

Ifsixwuz9 said:

Based on some of the fanaticism i've seen here....

Rogue588 said:

Yeah and those are the small number of fairly young fans who have nothing better to do.

Ifsixwuz9 said:

LOL, I am old and I agree.

Also, I listened to some of Amanda Fucking Palmer's music on YouTube. I know we all like different stuff, but from where I sit, Amanda Fucking Palmer's talent is such that she needs every trick in the book just to get 150 people to listen to her/put her up for the night.

BartVanHemelen said:

He never will. To do so would have to mean he got a grip on his control issues. Love that article, still have no idea what twitter is but more power to the artists!

PEJ said:

Unlike Lotus, I can actually dig around!

Actually, Bart makes some good points....Damn strong points....

But for all of the heads wagging their fingers at folks who take exception to Bart's comments, I think you guys need to be honest here...

For the most part, the criticism that people are projecting at Bart has more to do with his almost obsessive need to shit on the Org's hero on a daily basis...LOL

It works both ways guys...For me, it's hard to take the Kool-Aid drinking FAMS who think that Prince walks on water and has never released a lackluster album seriously...But at the other end of the spectrum are those folks whose sole purpose on this site is to nit-pick at ANY little thing the Purple Midget does (see Bart)...

So yeah, I can understand folks screaming down at Bart, as unfair as it is...It's a shame, because this was an excellent post...Unfortunately, Bart is the Org's version of the boy who cried wolf....When he actually raises a good point, it's hard to take the man as sincere...
[Edited 4/9/09 15:26pm]

it's true bart's a menace but there is signal in this particular blast of noise. let's not swing at the easy ones folks.