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Printablethedoveoflove said: Best Singer
MJ Best Dancer MJ Best Live performer MJ (But this one is close) Best Song Wrtier MJ Best Films/Videos MJ Most albums Sold MJ Best Musician Prince The facts speak for themselves. I like Prince he's my second favorite but I do think he's a Poor Mans MJ. what do you guys think [Edited 12/24/08 7:31am] I'll be objective and say that Prince is no slouch. He had a great band and he got rich off of what he does. Seen him in concert with The Revolution. Therefore, he's no Poor Mans MJ. I have yet to see MJ in concert. Again, this comparison between the two has been going on for years. | |
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thedoveoflove said: Best Singer
MJ Best Dancer MJ Best Live performer MJ (But this one is close) Best Song Wrtier MJ Best Films/Videos MJ Most albums Sold MJ Best Musician Prince The facts speak for themselves. I like Prince he's my second favorite but I do think he's a Poor Mans MJ. what do you guys think [Edited 12/24/08 7:31am]  @ the bolded | |
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graecophilos said: angel345 said: Well, I've seen and posted on the "Is MJ Homophobic" one. It has gotten a lot of responses. Your Star Trek avatar is interesting. This is a Prince website, but MJ just seems to eclipse everything or everybody. I started the homophob thread. But this was actually a topic one could discuss properly. But what do you do with some MJ fans that went nuts and post the same old: He sold a zillion records and therefore is the best ever shit. I'm not talking of the likes of Timmy84 or biboy87... I know they have knowledge. But some of those Mj weird fans hardly know anything else besides Dangerous and HIStory. Have they ever listened to "Songs In The Key Of Life"? I mean, this is sincere, genuine and strong songwriting. Stevie did this all on his own. I love Thriller and Off The Wall, and Bad as well... But I just don't think MJ is the best musician ever since Quincy obviously is the producer (his sound is sooo obvious) and on Thriller, MJ did not even write the title songs (although my favorites on this album were written by him). What i want to say is, that Mj lacks intergrity. He has to do a totally sincere album yet, where he draws from his life. HIStory dealt with personal stuff, but he still tried to succeed his precedors success. I used to be one of those stupid fans as well. But that was when I was younger and didn't know much more. But what do I wonder? People who only listen to one person's music MUST be totally ignorant. I disagree about artistic integrity. True he has yet to do a truly sincere album, but I feel it's from Michael placing a certain "distance" on some of his material. A poster named "Scorpion" wrote this on Okayplayer about Thriller and Michael's work in general: while we all might be sick of hearing it and while it may not be as heavy as a What's Going On or Innervisions...the fact is many records we regard as "art" dont have the sociological or spiritual depth of those records... it would be easy to say that the work of Leroy Burgess or even James Brown is fluff based on the subject matter and dismiss it as not being artistic..which is in fact what mainstream music press does to Black music as a whole...and I have a problem with that... it would be easy to say that I Want You is just a record abt being horny just the same as a Jodeci record is.... now as far as Thriller is concerned, it is an artistic as well as a commercial landmark for these reasons: A) you said in another post that you do not regard MJ as a songwriter or producer...which is unfair because he CLEARLY does both...as far as his first 2 albums w/Q.....people tend to overestimate Q's role...they tend to think that without a producer at the helm, Mike is helpless...it was Mike(w/the help of Randy Jackson) who created the the Jackson sound....it wasnt Jackie, Tito, or Marlon....and you see how well Jermaine faired on his own.... the the biggest issue that led J5 to leave Motown was lack of creative control....Mike was tired of being a singing puppet...he wanted his freedom in the studio... CBS was unsure and made the group do two albums w/Philly Intl...after that it was time to put up or shut up... so Mike and the boys got in the studio....CBS sent some studio pros in to make sure the shit didnt go wrong....the result was the Destiny album...the album that put them back on top.... with the exception of Blame It On The Boogie, ya boy wrote every song on that record... he wanted to distance himself from his family and create a new sound for himself....since he'd already lent his sound to the family brand he brought in Q.... NOBODY else wanted Q...the word was that he was too old, that his track record in pop was unproven...look at the facts....before OTW and Thriller, Q was known as a bandleader and film composer, NOT a pop hitmaker....he'd had success w/the Brojays but that's it...the last pop hit that he was responsible for before that was It's My Party by Leslie Gore.... if you hit you tube and listen to the demos that Mike brought Q, you will see that very little is different from the album versions... matter of fact, here ya go: Dont Stop demo: http://www.youtube.com/wa...CWJfzH6FDY Working Day and Night demo: http://www.youtube.com/wa...51jUmABMlc let's go to the Thriller demos.... The Girl Is Mine demo 1: http://www.youtube.com/wa...tXxORezhpg Girl Is Mine studio demo 2: http://www.youtube.com/wa...WUgNAAfcfU Billie Jean demo: http://www.youtube.com/wa...E_1eYWx4fM so...my point...is that Mike created these albums from his own vision....he hired Quincy for a)legitimacy and 2)to run the studio 3) for his connections 4)quality control so what you hear is his vision not Quincy's...so from an artistic standpoint, he didnt just sit around and sing what Quincy put in front of him....he knew what he wanted and hired Q to translate.... after OTW, Mike went and cranked out another Jacksons album, Triumph...where he wrote every song except two... so w.out Master Quincy, Mike was responsible for: Shake Your Body Heartbreak Hotel Lovely One Can You Feel It Walk Right Now Things I Do For You ...and the remaining songs on both Jacksons albums of that period... but the music snobs like to think that Maestro Quincy sat Green Mike down and told him what to do....we can also add the folks that think Rod Temperton wrote every song on those two albums...and that's the reason why those records came out the way they did... Mike created those albums from his own creative muse, so artistically for him, that's a W.... B) as far as Thriller specifically...Mike did something that no one else had done....he created the musical bridge for mainstream music from the 70's to the 80's...he was the cat who survived the 70's and led the way to he 80's, where most other 70's cats were tryna figure out what to do next...most of them were doing disco knock-offs and praying for their survival... people glaze over it now...but what soul/R&B figure could create a hit rock record that was embraced across the board...AND considered authentic by the rock audience?(the snobs may have been pissed off, but they werent the ones buying the records)...what soul/R&B cat was collaborating with Van Halen....and have it WORK? it wasnt Prince....w/out Beat It, could you have a Let's Go Crazy? what other soul/R&B cat could get one of the Beatles on Black radio in the 80's? what soul/R&B cat would get Vincent Price to drop spoken word in the middle a funk/R&B cut cum horror movie? who was else at the time was incorporating African chants and percussion at a time when everyone was whitening it up sonically(including MJ)...and who would reference Soul Makossa in the 80's? listen to the fact that a Black artist who was considered strictly soul/R&B decided to do a stylistic tour de force in one album when it hadnt been done before... Thriller had: Funk straight R&B Quiet Storm MOR Pop Rock ...all in one album by a Black aritst when such a thing was not only unheard of but frowned upon..... futhermore, on Thriller he spoke abt teen preganancy, gang violence, challenging the social constructs of manhood, the culture of gossip, emotional blackmail, obsession, false accusations of paternity, and belief in one's self... fluff? these are ARTISTIC RISKS....they could have gone horribly awry, but they didnt....he did the record HIS way....and in a rare occurence that we will only see once in a lifetime, hit the bulls-eye and pleased EVERYBODY...the effects of that had both deep positive and negative effects on his work and the entire music industry after that.... let's remember...when Thriller was being conceived and recorded, MJ was still thought of as strictly an R&B act (Rolling Stone refused to do a cover story on him at the time), a boy band singer made good and the success or failure of the record was of little consequence to anyone BUT MJ...so pulling those strings wasnt as easy as we'd think it to be.... but WHY did he want to make a record like Thriller?....was it just to win the awards and make copious amounts of dough? partially, yeah...but beyond that...why would MJ risk his entire career (which he'd done a few times before at that point) on a record that everybody, even QUINCY, thought would only be a mild follow up to OTW? because he wanted out of the box...he wanted the limitations placed on Black musical artistry lifted...to end the segregation, so to speak...to send a message that you can follow your muse no matter what people say or think...you can do the kind of music you want to do and nobody should get in your way or try to stop you.... and he DID that...he achieved that goal of ARTISTIC freedom that reaps commercial success where it is unusual that the two paths EVER cross... and whether you believe it or not is beside the point....MJ kicked down a huge barrier with Thriller...and many artists, regardless of culture or genre have reaped the benefits... so at a superficial glance, it could appear that Thriller is nothing but the hottest chick in school for a couple years...but what happens when you talk to that chick and find out that there's more there than just eye candy... "We may deify or demonize them but not ignore them. And we call them genius, because they are the people who change the world." |
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Just relax! Both are great artists... | |
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bboy87 said: graecophilos said: I started the homophob thread. But this was actually a topic one could discuss properly.
But what do you do with some MJ fans that went nuts and post the same old: He sold a zillion records and therefore is the best ever shit. I'm not talking of the likes of Timmy84 or biboy87... I know they have knowledge. But some of those Mj weird fans hardly know anything else besides Dangerous and HIStory. Have they ever listened to "Songs In The Key Of Life"? I mean, this is sincere, genuine and strong songwriting. Stevie did this all on his own. I love Thriller and Off The Wall, and Bad as well... But I just don't think MJ is the best musician ever since Quincy obviously is the producer (his sound is sooo obvious) and on Thriller, MJ did not even write the title songs (although my favorites on this album were written by him). What i want to say is, that Mj lacks intergrity. He has to do a totally sincere album yet, where he draws from his life. HIStory dealt with personal stuff, but he still tried to succeed his precedors success. I used to be one of those stupid fans as well. But that was when I was younger and didn't know much more. But what do I wonder? People who only listen to one person's music MUST be totally ignorant. I disagree about artistic integrity. True he has yet to do a truly sincere album, but I feel it's from Michael placing a certain "distance" on some of his material. A poster named "Scorpion" wrote this on Okayplayer about Thriller and Michael's work in general: while we all might be sick of hearing it and while it may not be as heavy as a What's Going On or Innervisions...the fact is many records we regard as "art" dont have the sociological or spiritual depth of those records... it would be easy to say that the work of Leroy Burgess or even James Brown is fluff based on the subject matter and dismiss it as not being artistic..which is in fact what mainstream music press does to Black music as a whole...and I have a problem with that... it would be easy to say that I Want You is just a record abt being horny just the same as a Jodeci record is.... now as far as Thriller is concerned, it is an artistic as well as a commercial landmark for these reasons: A) you said in another post that you do not regard MJ as a songwriter or producer...which is unfair because he CLEARLY does both...as far as his first 2 albums w/Q.....people tend to overestimate Q's role...they tend to think that without a producer at the helm, Mike is helpless...it was Mike(w/the help of Randy Jackson) who created the the Jackson sound....it wasnt Jackie, Tito, or Marlon....and you see how well Jermaine faired on his own.... the the biggest issue that led J5 to leave Motown was lack of creative control....Mike was tired of being a singing puppet...he wanted his freedom in the studio... CBS was unsure and made the group do two albums w/Philly Intl...after that it was time to put up or shut up... so Mike and the boys got in the studio....CBS sent some studio pros in to make sure the shit didnt go wrong....the result was the Destiny album...the album that put them back on top.... with the exception of Blame It On The Boogie, ya boy wrote every song on that record... he wanted to distance himself from his family and create a new sound for himself....since he'd already lent his sound to the family brand he brought in Q.... NOBODY else wanted Q...the word was that he was too old, that his track record in pop was unproven...look at the facts....before OTW and Thriller, Q was known as a bandleader and film composer, NOT a pop hitmaker....he'd had success w/the Brojays but that's it...the last pop hit that he was responsible for before that was It's My Party by Leslie Gore.... if you hit you tube and listen to the demos that Mike brought Q, you will see that very little is different from the album versions... matter of fact, here ya go: Dont Stop demo: http://www.youtube.com/wa...CWJfzH6FDY Working Day and Night demo: http://www.youtube.com/wa...51jUmABMlc let's go to the Thriller demos.... The Girl Is Mine demo 1: http://www.youtube.com/wa...tXxORezhpg Girl Is Mine studio demo 2: http://www.youtube.com/wa...WUgNAAfcfU Billie Jean demo: http://www.youtube.com/wa...E_1eYWx4fM so...my point...is that Mike created these albums from his own vision....he hired Quincy for a)legitimacy and 2)to run the studio 3) for his connections 4)quality control so what you hear is his vision not Quincy's...so from an artistic standpoint, he didnt just sit around and sing what Quincy put in front of him....he knew what he wanted and hired Q to translate.... after OTW, Mike went and cranked out another Jacksons album, Triumph...where he wrote every song except two... so w.out Master Quincy, Mike was responsible for: Shake Your Body Heartbreak Hotel Lovely One Can You Feel It Walk Right Now Things I Do For You ...and the remaining songs on both Jacksons albums of that period... but the music snobs like to think that Maestro Quincy sat Green Mike down and told him what to do....we can also add the folks that think Rod Temperton wrote every song on those two albums...and that's the reason why those records came out the way they did... Mike created those albums from his own creative muse, so artistically for him, that's a W.... B) as far as Thriller specifically...Mike did something that no one else had done....he created the musical bridge for mainstream music from the 70's to the 80's...he was the cat who survived the 70's and led the way to he 80's, where most other 70's cats were tryna figure out what to do next...most of them were doing disco knock-offs and praying for their survival... people glaze over it now...but what soul/R&B figure could create a hit rock record that was embraced across the board...AND considered authentic by the rock audience?(the snobs may have been pissed off, but they werent the ones buying the records)...what soul/R&B cat was collaborating with Van Halen....and have it WORK? it wasnt Prince....w/out Beat It, could you have a Let's Go Crazy? what other soul/R&B cat could get one of the Beatles on Black radio in the 80's? what soul/R&B cat would get Vincent Price to drop spoken word in the middle a funk/R&B cut cum horror movie? who was else at the time was incorporating African chants and percussion at a time when everyone was whitening it up sonically(including MJ)...and who would reference Soul Makossa in the 80's? listen to the fact that a Black artist who was considered strictly soul/R&B decided to do a stylistic tour de force in one album when it hadnt been done before... Thriller had: Funk straight R&B Quiet Storm MOR Pop Rock ...all in one album by a Black aritst when such a thing was not only unheard of but frowned upon..... futhermore, on Thriller he spoke abt teen preganancy, gang violence, challenging the social constructs of manhood, the culture of gossip, emotional blackmail, obsession, false accusations of paternity, and belief in one's self... fluff? these are ARTISTIC RISKS....they could have gone horribly awry, but they didnt....he did the record HIS way....and in a rare occurence that we will only see once in a lifetime, hit the bulls-eye and pleased EVERYBODY...the effects of that had both deep positive and negative effects on his work and the entire music industry after that.... let's remember...when Thriller was being conceived and recorded, MJ was still thought of as strictly an R&B act (Rolling Stone refused to do a cover story on him at the time), a boy band singer made good and the success or failure of the record was of little consequence to anyone BUT MJ...so pulling those strings wasnt as easy as we'd think it to be.... but WHY did he want to make a record like Thriller?....was it just to win the awards and make copious amounts of dough? partially, yeah...but beyond that...why would MJ risk his entire career (which he'd done a few times before at that point) on a record that everybody, even QUINCY, thought would only be a mild follow up to OTW? because he wanted out of the box...he wanted the limitations placed on Black musical artistry lifted...to end the segregation, so to speak...to send a message that you can follow your muse no matter what people say or think...you can do the kind of music you want to do and nobody should get in your way or try to stop you.... and he DID that...he achieved that goal of ARTISTIC freedom that reaps commercial success where it is unusual that the two paths EVER cross... and whether you believe it or not is beside the point....MJ kicked down a huge barrier with Thriller...and many artists, regardless of culture or genre have reaped the benefits... so at a superficial glance, it could appear that Thriller is nothing but the hottest chick in school for a couple years...but what happens when you talk to that chick and find out that there's more there than just eye candy... Thanks for that. I'm absolutely sick and fucking tired of certain pricks on this site trying to discredit everything Mike has ever done. | |
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superspaceboy said: thedoveoflove said: Best Singer
MJ Best Dancer MJ Best Live performer MJ (But this one is close) Best Song Wrtier MJ Best Films/Videos MJ Most albums Sold MJ Best Musician Prince The facts speak for themselves. I like Prince he's my second favorite but I do think he's a Poor Mans MJ. what do you guys think [Edited 12/24/08 7:31am] Whose "Facts" are these? Honestly other than most albums sold, there is zero truth to the rest. I think Prince is a better singer and has a lot more range than MJ. That is my opinion. Since Prince pretty much produces himself and plays almost all of the instuments on his albums, AND has done so in a much more prolific manner, I'd have to say Prince beats MJ in that regard. If MJ was a better musician, we'd see a lot more music from him. Dancer...I have yet to see Prince Moonwalk, nor I have I seen MJ do 7 splits in a row. Live performances...um Prince hands muther funking down. Of course this is my opinion. MJ is more "show" and Prince is more "Concert". Song Writer...Again Prince's prolific nature bests MJ. Prince has prety much covered ALL styles...MJ has only done a few and seems stuck on just one for the last few albums. I think really none if it matters in the least. It's all about the music. All I can say is that Since Invincible, Prince fans have gotten 4 studio albums, A bunch of music released on the internet, A few Live recordings and even a book not to mention a few tours and some jaw dropping TV perfomances. ANd last I looked, MJ keeps talking about music he's not making, talking about plans for a tour he's not doing and the only book he's releasing is for his auction of memorbilia. And THOSE,my dear friend are the facts.  The most laughable thing is when i see prince fans like you say that prince is better than Mj dance-wise because mj didn't do the splits,thats the dumbest thing i have ever heard, but for your information ,Mj did the splits when he was a child he maybe thought its a hell of a boring dance move she he created his own style of dancing..... besides ,prince who is a genuis musician was never ever an original dancer MICHAEL JACKSON
R.I.P مايكل جاكسون للأبد 1958 | |
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seeingvoices12 said: superspaceboy said: Whose "Facts" are these? Honestly other than most albums sold, there is zero truth to the rest. I think Prince is a better singer and has a lot more range than MJ. That is my opinion. Since Prince pretty much produces himself and plays almost all of the instuments on his albums, AND has done so in a much more prolific manner, I'd have to say Prince beats MJ in that regard. If MJ was a better musician, we'd see a lot more music from him. Dancer...I have yet to see Prince Moonwalk, nor I have I seen MJ do 7 splits in a row. Live performances...um Prince hands muther funking down. Of course this is my opinion. MJ is more "show" and Prince is more "Concert". Song Writer...Again Prince's prolific nature bests MJ. Prince has prety much covered ALL styles...MJ has only done a few and seems stuck on just one for the last few albums. I think really none if it matters in the least. It's all about the music. All I can say is that Since Invincible, Prince fans have gotten 4 studio albums, A bunch of music released on the internet, A few Live recordings and even a book not to mention a few tours and some jaw dropping TV perfomances. ANd last I looked, MJ keeps talking about music he's not making, talking about plans for a tour he's not doing and the only book he's releasing is for his auction of memorbilia. And THOSE,my dear friend are the facts. The most laughable thing is when i see prince fans like you say that prince is better than Mj dance-wise because mj didn't do the splits,thats the dumbest thing i have ever heard, but for your information ,Mj did the splits when he was a child he maybe thought its a hell of a boring dance move she he created his own style of dancing..... besides ,prince who is a genuis musician was never ever an original dancer Hmm.... Good Answer!! | |
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seeingvoices12 said: superspaceboy said: Whose "Facts" are these? Honestly other than most albums sold, there is zero truth to the rest. I think Prince is a better singer and has a lot more range than MJ. That is my opinion. Since Prince pretty much produces himself and plays almost all of the instuments on his albums, AND has done so in a much more prolific manner, I'd have to say Prince beats MJ in that regard. If MJ was a better musician, we'd see a lot more music from him. Dancer...I have yet to see Prince Moonwalk, nor I have I seen MJ do 7 splits in a row. Live performances...um Prince hands muther funking down. Of course this is my opinion. MJ is more "show" and Prince is more "Concert". Song Writer...Again Prince's prolific nature bests MJ. Prince has prety much covered ALL styles...MJ has only done a few and seems stuck on just one for the last few albums. I think really none if it matters in the least. It's all about the music. All I can say is that Since Invincible, Prince fans have gotten 4 studio albums, A bunch of music released on the internet, A few Live recordings and even a book not to mention a few tours and some jaw dropping TV perfomances. ANd last I looked, MJ keeps talking about music he's not making, talking about plans for a tour he's not doing and the only book he's releasing is for his auction of memorbilia. And THOSE,my dear friend are the facts. The most laughable thing is when i see prince fans like you say that prince is better than Mj dance-wise because mj didn't do the splits,thats the dumbest thing i have ever heard, but for your information ,Mj did the splits when he was a child he maybe thought its a hell of a boring dance move she he created his own style of dancing..... besides ,prince who is a genuis musician was never ever an original dancer I think what's laughable is MJ fans like you who nit pick everything anyone says about MJ. I never said who was the better dancer. All I said was I never saw them do what the other did. Though I do love how you simply interject your own opinion when it comes to what MJ thought of doing the splits as a child. How would you know if MJ thought it was boring? Maybe he thought it was hard. And Prince didn't just do one...he did like 5 or 7 in a row. Personally for me I find that to be more exciting than MJ doing the moonwalk.
But I supose if I must choose who is the best dancer...I choose MJ because most of his videos involve some sort of dance move. There. Feel Better.  MJ WINS!!![Edited 12/26/08 8:54am] Christian Zombie Vampires | |
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bboy87 said: graecophilos said: I started the homophob thread. But this was actually a topic one could discuss properly. But what do you do with some MJ fans that went nuts and post the same old: He sold a zillion records and therefore is the best ever shit. I'm not talking of the likes of Timmy84 or biboy87... I know they have knowledge. But some of those Mj weird fans hardly know anything else besides Dangerous and HIStory. Have they ever listened to "Songs In The Key Of Life"? I mean, this is sincere, genuine and strong songwriting. Stevie did this all on his own. I love Thriller and Off The Wall, and Bad as well... But I just don't think MJ is the best musician ever since Quincy obviously is the producer (his sound is sooo obvious) and on Thriller, MJ did not even write the title songs (although my favorites on this album were written by him). What i want to say is, that Mj lacks intergrity. He has to do a totally sincere album yet, where he draws from his life. HIStory dealt with personal stuff, but he still tried to succeed his precedors success. I used to be one of those stupid fans as well. But that was when I was younger and didn't know much more. But what do I wonder? People who only listen to one person's music MUST be totally ignorant. I disagree about artistic integrity. True he has yet to do a truly sincere album, but I feel it's from Michael placing a certain "distance" on some of his material. A poster named "Scorpion" wrote this on Okayplayer about Thriller and Michael's work in general: while we all might be sick of hearing it and while it may not be as heavy as a What's Going On or Innervisions...the fact is many records we regard as "art" dont have the sociological or spiritual depth of those records... it would be easy to say that the work of Leroy Burgess or even James Brown is fluff based on the subject matter and dismiss it as not being artistic..which is in fact what mainstream music press does to Black music as a whole...and I have a problem with that... it would be easy to say that I Want You is just a record abt being horny just the same as a Jodeci record is.... now as far as Thriller is concerned, it is an artistic as well as a commercial landmark for these reasons: A) you said in another post that you do not regard MJ as a songwriter or producer...which is unfair because he CLEARLY does both...as far as his first 2 albums w/Q.....people tend to overestimate Q's role...they tend to think that without a producer at the helm, Mike is helpless...it was Mike(w/the help of Randy Jackson) who created the the Jackson sound....it wasnt Jackie, Tito, or Marlon....and you see how well Jermaine faired on his own.... the the biggest issue that led J5 to leave Motown was lack of creative control....Mike was tired of being a singing puppet...he wanted his freedom in the studio... CBS was unsure and made the group do two albums w/Philly Intl...after that it was time to put up or shut up... so Mike and the boys got in the studio....CBS sent some studio pros in to make sure the shit didnt go wrong....the result was the Destiny album...the album that put them back on top.... with the exception of Blame It On The Boogie, ya boy wrote every song on that record... he wanted to distance himself from his family and create a new sound for himself....since he'd already lent his sound to the family brand he brought in Q.... NOBODY else wanted Q...the word was that he was too old, that his track record in pop was unproven...look at the facts....before OTW and Thriller, Q was known as a bandleader and film composer, NOT a pop hitmaker....he'd had success w/the Brojays but that's it...the last pop hit that he was responsible for before that was It's My Party by Leslie Gore.... if you hit you tube and listen to the demos that Mike brought Q, you will see that very little is different from the album versions... matter of fact, here ya go: Dont Stop demo: http://www.youtube.com/wa...CWJfzH6FDY Working Day and Night demo: http://www.youtube.com/wa...51jUmABMlc let's go to the Thriller demos.... The Girl Is Mine demo 1: http://www.youtube.com/wa...tXxORezhpg Girl Is Mine studio demo 2: http://www.youtube.com/wa...WUgNAAfcfU Billie Jean demo: http://www.youtube.com/wa...E_1eYWx4fM so...my point...is that Mike created these albums from his own vision....he hired Quincy for a)legitimacy and 2)to run the studio 3) for his connections 4)quality control so what you hear is his vision not Quincy's...so from an artistic standpoint, he didnt just sit around and sing what Quincy put in front of him....he knew what he wanted and hired Q to translate.... after OTW, Mike went and cranked out another Jacksons album, Triumph...where he wrote every song except two... so w.out Master Quincy, Mike was responsible for: Shake Your Body Heartbreak Hotel Lovely One Can You Feel It Walk Right Now Things I Do For You ...and the remaining songs on both Jacksons albums of that period... but the music snobs like to think that Maestro Quincy sat Green Mike down and told him what to do....we can also add the folks that think Rod Temperton wrote every song on those two albums...and that's the reason why those records came out the way they did... Mike created those albums from his own creative muse, so artistically for him, that's a W.... B) as far as Thriller specifically...Mike did something that no one else had done....he created the musical bridge for mainstream music from the 70's to the 80's...he was the cat who survived the 70's and led the way to he 80's, where most other 70's cats were tryna figure out what to do next...most of them were doing disco knock-offs and praying for their survival... people glaze over it now...but what soul/R&B figure could create a hit rock record that was embraced across the board...AND considered authentic by the rock audience?(the snobs may have been pissed off, but they werent the ones buying the records)...what soul/R&B cat was collaborating with Van Halen....and have it WORK? it wasnt Prince....w/out Beat It, could you have a Let's Go Crazy? what other soul/R&B cat could get one of the Beatles on Black radio in the 80's? what soul/R&B cat would get Vincent Price to drop spoken word in the middle a funk/R&B cut cum horror movie? who was else at the time was incorporating African chants and percussion at a time when everyone was whitening it up sonically(including MJ)...and who would reference Soul Makossa in the 80's? listen to the fact that a Black artist who was considered strictly soul/R&B decided to do a stylistic tour de force in one album when it hadnt been done before... Thriller had: Funk straight R&B Quiet Storm MOR Pop Rock ...all in one album by a Black aritst when such a thing was not only unheard of but frowned upon..... futhermore, on Thriller he spoke abt teen preganancy, gang violence, challenging the social constructs of manhood, the culture of gossip, emotional blackmail, obsession, false accusations of paternity, and belief in one's self... fluff? these are ARTISTIC RISKS....they could have gone horribly awry, but they didnt....he did the record HIS way....and in a rare occurence that we will only see once in a lifetime, hit the bulls-eye and pleased EVERYBODY...the effects of that had both deep positive and negative effects on his work and the entire music industry after that.... let's remember...when Thriller was being conceived and recorded, MJ was still thought of as strictly an R&B act (Rolling Stone refused to do a cover story on him at the time), a boy band singer made good and the success or failure of the record was of little consequence to anyone BUT MJ...so pulling those strings wasnt as easy as we'd think it to be.... but WHY did he want to make a record like Thriller?....was it just to win the awards and make copious amounts of dough? partially, yeah...but beyond that...why would MJ risk his entire career (which he'd done a few times before at that point) on a record that everybody, even QUINCY, thought would only be a mild follow up to OTW? because he wanted out of the box...he wanted the limitations placed on Black musical artistry lifted...to end the segregation, so to speak...to send a message that you can follow your muse no matter what people say or think...you can do the kind of music you want to do and nobody should get in your way or try to stop you.... and he DID that...he achieved that goal of ARTISTIC freedom that reaps commercial success where it is unusual that the two paths EVER cross... and whether you believe it or not is beside the point....MJ kicked down a huge barrier with Thriller...and many artists, regardless of culture or genre have reaped the benefits... so at a superficial glance, it could appear that Thriller is nothing but the hottest chick in school for a couple years...but what happens when you talk to that chick and find out that there's more there than just eye candy... After reading this, his book "Moonwalker" gave you more insight on what went down in the studio. They did have different ideas and visions musically. Q didn't want to name "Billie Jean" for the title song because he thought that the public would confuse it with the popular tennis player Billie Jean King. For the "Bad" album, MJ wanted to use the unreleased song "Streetwalker" instead of "Bad" as the head title, but Q wanted "Bad". When MJ's old manager walked in and heard "Bad" and danced to it, then that was it. Another thing is that Q was more of a blue and jazz type and grew up in the era of Cab Calloway, Dizzy Gillespie, and Billie Holliday which made him too nostalgic. Therefore, you could say that MJ thought ouside the box and took a musical risk with him. The result is what many of us know about "Thriller". MJ has and continues to be the subject of debate and discussion because you have people of different eras with different views about him. The younger generation came at a time when he was accused and acquitted of molestation. Some were born when he was at the peak of his career, and some were born when the Jackson 5 was very big in the 70's. Then you have the media that gives you a very distorted view of him. I have also found out he was in the "Songwriters Hall Of Fame". Therefore, after reading this and his book many years ago, plus online articles, he is definitely more that just a puppet in the music industry. [Edited 12/26/08 11:01am] | |
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superspaceboy said: seeingvoices12 said: The most laughable thing is when i see prince fans like you say that prince is better than Mj dance-wise because mj didn't do the splits,thats the dumbest thing i have ever heard, but for your information ,Mj did the splits when he was a child he maybe thought its a hell of a boring dance move she he created his own style of dancing..... besides ,prince who is a genuis musician was never ever an original dancer I think what's laughable is MJ fans like you who nit pick everything anyone says about MJ. I never said who was the better dancer. All I said was I never saw them do what the other did. Though I do love how you simply interject your own opinion when it comes to what MJ thought of doing the splits as a child. How would you know if MJ thought it was boring? Maybe he thought it was hard. And Prince didn't just do one...he did like 5 or 7 in a row. Personally for me I find that to be more exciting than MJ doing the moonwalk.
But I supose if I must choose who is the best dancer...I choose MJ because most of his videos involve some sort of dance move. There. Feel Better. MJ WINS!!!
[Edited 12/26/08 8:54am]
I have no problem whatsoever if you prefered prince over MJ, thats your opinion and i respect it if it was truely fair and honest,what you have said gives an indication that prince is a better dancer than Mj which is a laugh , some prince fans seem to discredit everything Mj ever done inculding dancing...Mj is not doing the splits anymore because he wanted to create his own unique style of dancing and he achieved that , I don't find the splits entertaining at all.... [Edited 12/26/08 14:39pm] MICHAEL JACKSON
R.I.P مايكل جاكسون للأبد 1958 | |
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 "We may deify or demonize them but not ignore them. And we call them genius, because they are the people who change the world." |
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thedoveoflove said: Best Singer
MJ Best Dancer MJ Best Live performer MJ (But this one is close) Best Song Wrtier MJ Best Films/Videos MJ Most albums Sold MJ Best Musician Prince The facts speak for themselves. I like Prince he's my second favorite but I do think he's a Poor Mans MJ. what do you guys think [Edited 12/24/08 7:31am]  | |
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Another boring thread by MJ fanatics in disguise.
Why comparing the 2, MJ is a gifted entertainer like James Brown, Sammy Davis Jr but unlike them diluted his rhythm'n'blues/soul/funk music into pop(with the help of videos) to reach stratospheric audience and acclaim.That is not to say he is talentless, he has vocal ability and he's a good dancer and wrote some nice(pleasant)tunes but that is as far as we can go. As for Prince he is truly a gifted musician(mostly guitars, keyboards and drums) recognized by by his peers as such. He can pretty do what was mentionned above regarding MJ(vocal, videos) but on top of it he has this ability to be prolific and eager to try new things musically which led him to compose forgettable songs (to say the least) as well as gems. I understand the interest for MJ but musically this is very safe and middle of the road and most people around the world can enjoy it for what it is, nothing grounbreaking, just pleasant. On the contrary Prince's music is more complex musically although a lot of his productions recently have been middle of the road. | |
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seeingvoices12 said: superspaceboy said: I think what's laughable is MJ fans like you who nit pick everything anyone says about MJ. I never said who was the better dancer. All I said was I never saw them do what the other did. Though I do love how you simply interject your own opinion when it comes to what MJ thought of doing the splits as a child. How would you know if MJ thought it was boring? Maybe he thought it was hard. And Prince didn't just do one...he did like 5 or 7 in a row. Personally for me I find that to be more exciting than MJ doing the moonwalk.
But I supose if I must choose who is the best dancer...I choose MJ because most of his videos involve some sort of dance move. There. Feel Better. MJ WINS!!!
[Edited 12/26/08 8:54am]
I have no problem whatsoever if you prefered prince over MJ, thats your opinion and i respect it if it was truely fair and honest,what you have said gives an indication that prince is a better dancer than Mj which is a laugh , some prince fans seem to discredit everything Mj ever done inculding dancing...Mj is not doing the splits anymore because he wanted to create his own unique style of dancing and he achieved that , I don't find the splits entertaining at all.... [Edited 12/26/08 14:39pm] Wow. First you say that I chose prince when I had not. Then you say I chose Prince when I clearly said MJ was a better dancer. I am not as closed minded as you think when it comes to MJ, I actually play him a lot in my home. So please don't villify me and think I am not a fan, because I am. Christian Zombie Vampires | |
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Jesus, these MJ fans come across as mentally unbalanced.
No sane person could ever choose Michael here. He has possibly one of the most annoying affected vocal styles ever; he seemingly lost the ability to sing past the age of 13. His voice is completely shot these days which is why you'll never see him perform a live vocal again. OK, good enough dancer, but it all seems so regimented, unlike Prince's seemingly spontaneous moves. As a composer and musician, forget it. This is where the little man easily wins. I can't think of a better all round musician; whilst Prince's mainstream popularity has taken a downturn over recent years, the public seem to have woken up to the fact that he can play his arse off on guitar. And even from the days of "For You", it was obvious that he excelled at every instrument; he has an innate sense of musicality which Michael doesn't. All of these MJ fans like to go on about Michael's instrumental abilities...well, until he bothers playing something on stage, I'm not convinced. And as a live act, Prince has always projected far much more personality than Michael. He's involving and his sense of humour always comes through. It's not that I don't like Michael's music...it's just that it strikes me as average alongside Prince's more innovative work, not to mention his back catalogue not being as memorable as Prince's output. | |
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Mike's voice really doesn't have much deph. It's all yelps, hiccups, and WOOOOO!. I'm mean, It's cool for awhile. Then it gets old, and repeitive. Then it just turns into a joke! I also think it's embarassing listening to him in public. You either get stares, or chuckles Mike was ok for his time. Lets just leave it at that. | |
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funkycat00 said: Mike's voice really doesn't have much deph. It's all yelps, hiccups, and WOOOOO!. I'm mean, It's cool for awhile. Then it gets old, and repeitive. Then it just turns into a joke! I also think it's embarassing listening to him in public. You either get stares, or chuckles
Mike was ok for his time. Lets just leave it at that.I thought I was alone. | |
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Mong said: Jesus, these MJ fans come across as mentally unbalanced.
No sane person could ever choose Michael here. He has possibly one of the most annoying affected vocal styles ever; he seemingly lost the ability to sing past the age of 13. His voice is completely shot these days which is why you'll never see him perform a live vocal again. OK, good enough dancer, but it all seems so regimented, unlike Prince's seemingly spontaneous moves. As a composer and musician, forget it. This is where the little man easily wins. I can't think of a better all round musician; whilst Prince's mainstream popularity has taken a downturn over recent years, the public seem to have woken up to the fact that he can play his arse off on guitar. And even from the days of "For You", it was obvious that he excelled at every instrument; he has an innate sense of musicality which Michael doesn't. All of these MJ fans like to go on about Michael's instrumental abilities...well, until he bothers playing something on stage, I'm not convinced. And as a live act, Prince has always projected far much more personality than Michael. He's involving and his sense of humour always comes through. It's not that I don't like Michael's music...it's just that it strikes me as average alongside Prince's more innovative work, not to mention his back catalogue not being as memorable as Prince's output. Just because some Mj fans have different opinions don't make them mentally unbalanced , have some respect, some of you keep talking over and over that all Mj fans are crazy , mentally stupid or unbalanced yet some of the prince fans are one of the most hypocrite, bitter , miserable fans i have ever came across, through my observation on Mj forums and prince forums I find that Mj fans have more respect for prince than Prince fans do for MJ, you don't always find that Mj fans keep insulting and posting crap on prince threads , so the real problem is with prince fans....I don't mind those kind of topics to be debated as long as the discussion is healthy , respectful and fair , so this crap that Mj fans are crazy and mentally unbalanced needs to STOP. Now back on topic , I don't find prince to be more interesting composer than Mj, even though I think that Mj is a capable lyricist I find prince a better lyricist not a better compose, because prince's lyrics always make you think however Mj's melodies and composition are always timeless, prince always seem to miss this melody factor that he doesn't care much about the melody of a track as much as the lyrics , Mj has always had this unbelievable sense of melody that the melody for him is the most important part of the track. Now as for me, I have never said that Mj is a hell of an instrumentalist to inflate his talents because i know that Mj doesn't need the help and is a living legend even if he didn't pick up a guitar and play it on stage but all im saying that I find it hard to believe that a man who has been around musicians for more than 4 decades cannot play a single instrument, you saying that Mj fans don't have a proof that Mj can play instruments but at the same time prince fans don't have a proof that Mj can't play instruments either  .
as for Mj being one of the most annoying affected vocal styles ever..I won't even bother respeonding to this nonsense, thats when prince fans want to discredit any aspect of Mj as an artist..what a shame. funnycat00 said: Mike's voice really doesn't have much deph. It's all yelps, hiccups, and WOOOOO!. I'm mean, It's cool for awhile. Then it gets old, and repeitive. Then it just turns into a joke! I also think it's embarassing listening to him in public. You either get stares, or chuckles Mike was ok for his time. Lets just leave it at that.
what do you think people reaction will be if i was listening to darkling Nikka in public? maybe I will get eggs and tomatoes so this hypocrisy of some of you need to stop. MICHAEL JACKSON
R.I.P مايكل جاكسون للأبد 1958 | |
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Mong said: Jesus, these MJ fans come across as mentally unbalanced.
No sane person could ever choose Michael here. He has possibly one of the most annoying affected vocal styles ever; he seemingly lost the ability to sing past the age of 13. His voice is completely shot these days which is why you'll never see him perform a live vocal again. OK, good enough dancer, but it all seems so regimented, unlike Prince's seemingly spontaneous moves. Mike and Princes voice are COMPLETELY different styles. You cant say, one is better than the other, its a matter of personal taste. And as far as MJ's dancing, if you ever watch his LIVE shows, there are many times when he spontaneously dances and flows with the music, it is not staged and it is really fantastic to watch. | |
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Oh God.
Kids wearing high tops and tight ass jeans? SNL is more popular than ever? A new Karate Kid movie? A Prince versus Michael Jackson Discussion? I'VE BEEN TRANSPORTER TO THE EIGTHIES!! 
*runs around it a circle* | |
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funkycat00 said: Mike's voice really doesn't have much deph. It's all yelps, hiccups, and WOOOOO!. I'm mean, It's cool for awhile. Then it gets old, and repeitive. Then it just turns into a joke! I also think it's embarassing listening to him in public. You either get stares, or chuckles
Mike was ok for his time. Lets just leave it at that.I get that reaction when I listen to Prince in public. Michael jackson's voice not having much depth....that's the first time I've heard that "We may deify or demonize them but not ignore them. And we call them genius, because they are the people who change the world." |
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Can someone lock this pointless thread? "We may deify or demonize them but not ignore them. And we call them genius, because they are the people who change the world." |
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bboy87 said: funkycat00 said: Mike's voice really doesn't have much deph. It's all yelps, hiccups, and WOOOOO!. I'm mean, It's cool for awhile. Then it gets old, and repeitive. Then it just turns into a joke! I also think it's embarassing listening to him in public. You either get stares, or chuckles
Mike was ok for his time. Lets just leave it at that.I get that reaction when I listen to Prince in public. If I play a Prince song, people give me either "Ha are you playing Prince?" or "Who the fuck is that?" Michael Jackson's voice not having much depth....that's the first time I've heard that "We may deify or demonize them but not ignore them. And we call them genius, because they are the people who change the world." |
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bboy87 said: Can someone lock this pointless thread?
Ride on. Has LoveyDovey ever returned here to debate his silly opinionbaits ?
Simply saying "The plain facts, you can't argue with them" makes the shaky ground beneath ya groove lika mutha. | |
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Shango said: bboy87 said: Can someone lock this pointless thread?
Ride on. Has LoveyDovey ever returned here to debate his silly opinionbaits ?
Simply saying "The plain facts, you can't argue with them" makes the shaky ground beneath ya groove lika mutha. Of course not
It's also hilarious when I read that someone was great "for their time" but now we should move on.....when we're on a website dedicated to a 80s legend and we continue discussing Michael, Madonna and other 60s, 70s, and 80s stars. It's just hypocritical
And it's ALWAYS the orgers who rarely come into this section that says that "We may deify or demonize them but not ignore them. And we call them genius, because they are the people who change the world." |
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Shamoan !  | |
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Hope we learned a lesson: don't fall into the MJ troll bait. | |
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- Best Singer - Winner: Prince
Prince - He sings live all the time, there is no thought if this guy can do what we hear on the albums. Prince is NOT a "studio musican" - MJ is it is easy to take 50 takes per verse and clipped it all together into a song that is MJ in a nutshell. Prince on the other hand has sung live and he sounds exactly like the albums! There is no drop off from what we hear from The Album vs. The Concert MJ - He can't sing. If he could he wouldnt lip sync 90% of his career! Watch every tv appearence excluding his Jackson 5 career - he has lip synced his whole solo career - Best Dancer Winner: MJ MJ - sure 90% of his dancing is direct stolen dance moves from James Brown, Jackie Wilson & Electric Boogaloo. His signature dance move which brought his career to the next level "the moonwalk" was on tv and in movies for years and years. Any "new" edge to his dancing was stolen from breakdancers. Plus lets add he hasnt done a new dance move since 1987. He has been trying to recapture what worked off Thriller & the Bad Concerts since well Ronald Reagan was President. Prince - He is more a free flowing dancer, he puts some dancing in his concerts and most of the time he looks pretty cool when he does it, but I wouldnt think of him as a dancer or a guy wanted that title as a great dancer. He doesnt put his dance out there like that. - Best Live Performer - Winner: Prince Prince is probably the best LIVE performer ever! Anyone that can play so well at so many important gigs and then add he plays with that same energy in Cleveland on a Tuesday night. If you listen to Prince in 1980 or in 2008, the guy is amazing and exactly the same! I think he actually better now more of a focus guitar player now! Just compare Super Bowl performances and cased closed there! Prince plays 100% live in the pouring rain.. MJ 100% lip syncs the singing and gets exposed when the he was talking live, but then the singing track came in to soon. MJ - He is a complete joke! If he could sing live he wouldnt need to put out 25+ years of "jacko stunts" stories to keep himself in the public eye. He wouldnt right now be worrying about releasing a new album, all he would have to do with a 40+ year old back cataloge is SING LIVE IN VEGAS! Walk in sing old songs.. turn the mic on and just sing, forget dancing if your to old now, cool everyone ages, fine... BUT singing live is something anyone can do if you think your a legend. Shit, Elvis was 300lbs, he was a drug addict & couldnt take a shit!! HE sang live! What puts MJ is a lower level is he is just and will only be a Dance Act who was a Studio Musican and needed to Lip Sync all his TV performances and IF his turned his mic on - he sounded like crap! - Best Song Writer - Winner: Prince Prince of course, please is this even a question? Its Prince writting basically everything we have heard compared to a "Team of writers" trying to think up a image with MJ MJ - Quincy Jones, Rod Temperton & MJ. The songs really after Thriller are all a "blueprint" of Off The Wall. Thriller was the best example of it sounded great and then every album after that was worse and worse weaker and weaker. All basically the same subject matter. No Range for the most part. - Best Films/Videos - Winner: Both Prince has the best film Purple Rain! That was the next step after the 15 minute Thriller. Prince made a movie around his album. Plus this film MJ has been chasing ever since! MJ bleached himself to look like the "purple rain prince" if you compare the image of MJ in 1987 - On.. the mysterous look,personality all came from Prince from 1982-1985. MJ copied that with Jacko Stories that worked and when he finally released he looked like Prince. He wanted Prince in his first video? MJ - His videos were good! He had the best directors and allot of #1 A-list money behind him for those music videos and they were good. - Best Albums - Winner: Prince Prince has what how many albums.. I am not even going to sit here and count! basically he has put out a new album every year since he started if you count the double and triple disks. MJ - He is done! The #1 A-List push is over and so are the albums! He has just repeated Off The Wall every 4 years - now its been what 7 years and NO album. All the guy releases is Greatest Hits Packages to hide behind. The reason? His last studio album with new material cost $65 million to make and promote and before it hit the $1 bin.. it sold like 5 million albums sold worldwide. Thats allot of money for that many sales. Here is my prediction which I made 6 years ago. MICHAEL JACKSON WILL NEVER RELEASE A NEW ALBUM Ever Again! You will never see a new album with new material. Not unreleased stuff - but a album he actually writes and records NOW. - Best Musician - Winner: Prince Prince - come on. MJ - please he cant even turn a mic on and sing live for a full concert. If he didnt do that at 30 years old do you think he will at 50. | |
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^^okay, buddy, we get it "We may deify or demonize them but not ignore them. And we call them genius, because they are the people who change the world." |
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