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PrintableLondonStyle said: Cinnamon234 said: Yes, MJ's look in "You Rock My World" was horrible. It seems like even he's aware he looks bad in the video, it's painful to watch. I hardly ever watch that video.
http://uk.youtube.com/wat...3wShd_bX8A plastic fantastic...  If you look at it, you can see loads and loads of make-up. The media is not gonna admit it, but he's better looking in person. | |
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angel345 said: LondonStyle said: come on she's a very basic singer and very basic dancer....she is not an artist in any shape or form.....music forget about it...please ...she just a girl who had a great look(body more than face) in the 80's and nice pop tunes...how her career has lasted this long is down to the fact their are very few "white girls" who can sing and dance or want to that, Why is Britney so big, just like madonna she can't sing or dance that great but its just enough to get buy pure marketing of very little talent..  I have wondered myself how her career lasted this long. I remember when she and Cyndi Lauper came out around the same time, but Cyndi never got the credit and hype that Madonna has, and she can sing circles around her. Again, it's about business, marketing, and it's not what you know, but who you know. It's her ability to provoce the general public and the fact she has great pop songs. Yes, she HAS. MJ is big.. but only because he USED TO BE gigantic. But the last 7 years he proved not his superstar status whereas Madonna has an ongoing career. If I'd have teh choice I'd rather be Madonna. She's unhappy sometimes too. But MJ most be one of the saddest and lonliest persons ever. I mean, apart from his private life comes the press and mobs him. | |
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angel345 said: LondonStyle said: If you look at it, you can see loads and loads of make-up. The media is not gonna admit it, but he's better looking in person. I think it depends on the era. Been gone for a minute, now I'm back with the jump off | |
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JackieBlue said: angel345 said: If you look at it, you can see loads and loads of make-up. The media is not gonna admit it, but he's better looking in person. I think it depends on the era. I think it depends on the lights...how dark is that video...mike does not look like a healthy man....now Prince ...with hip gone still looks better... Da, Da, Da....Emancipation....Free..don't think I ain't..! London 21 Nights...Clap your hands...you know the rest..
James Brown & Michael Jackson RIP, your music still lives with us! | |
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LondonStyle said: JackieBlue said: I think it depends on the era. I think it depends on the lights...how dark is that video...mike does not look like a healthy man....now Prince ...with hip gone still looks better... I've never found Prince hard to look at but there are times with MJ--on video and in person--that I just cringe. I’m not a proponent of cosmetic surgery anyway so coloring aside, I have difficulty seeing him as he is. Been gone for a minute, now I'm back with the jump off | |
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horatio said: Graycap23 said: Cause she is NOT known 4 anything....really.
and she is a marketing ploy. she is an elaborate ad campaign for the people who decide what is the next in thing. she pays for it too, its not her ideas, she buys other peoples ideas. Through it all she is known for dance pop. Whether its hiring mega bucks producers like Timbaland, or recording songs with Steve Bray in a grimy New York studio - she's made music in a miriad of different ways, with a variety of people. Sure she relies on a collaborator, but that doesnt mean she brings nothing to the table. She shapeshifts throughout her career because she gets bored. This is also why she can put on a brand new tour every couple of years, fill half of it with new songs, and still sell it out. She doesnt always get it right, but its always interesting - and at the root of it are consistently good pop songs. It makes people feel better to focus on the marketing and the image because they dont want to contemplate the posibility she may actually be good at what she does. She has directed her career from the off. Sure she's had help along the way, but very few artists can lay claim to being such masters of their own destiny. | |
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CrozzaUK said: horatio said: and she is a marketing ploy. she is an elaborate ad campaign for the people who decide what is the next in thing. she pays for it too, its not her ideas, she buys other peoples ideas. Through it all she is known for dance pop. Whether its hiring mega bucks producers like Timbaland, or recording songs with Steve Bray in a grimy New York studio - she's made music in a miriad of different ways, with a variety of people. Sure she relies on a collaborator, but that doesnt mean she brings nothing to the table. She shapeshifts throughout her career because she gets bored. This is also why she can put on a brand new tour every couple of years, fill half of it with new songs, and still sell it out. She doesnt always get it right, but its always interesting - and at the root of it are consistently good pop songs. It makes people feel better to focus on the marketing and the image because they dont want to contemplate the posibility she may actually be good at what she does. She has directed her career from the off. Sure she's had help along the way, but very few artists can lay claim to being such masters of their own destiny. 
there is nothing unique about what she brings to the table. People get bored period. People in general change through their lives, what they wear and furnish their homes with. Whats the latest trend in eco-thinking. etc. New trends are created to fill those voids. The most she has done is recycle old ideas for people who are unfamiliar with them. | |
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LiveToTell86 said: speeddemon said: Once MJ will decide to release a new album, he'll easily outsell about all of his contemporaries.
/ Too bad it's never gonna happen. If he releases a new album in 2010 or something, CD sales will be so low that he's not going to break records. Perhaps that's why he stopped making music, he's afraid of not being able to compete in the current market. angel345 said: MJ can still sit back for years, and not cut another album, but still maintain his much bigger fanbase.
Releasing a compilation album every year does not mean he's keeping his fanbase. Sure, there are some who buy everything he releases, but his compilations sell because the public wants to get the big hits on a CD. It's naive to believe MJ's fanbase is bigger than Madonna's, most people think of MJ as a nostalgia act and say "I love Thriller" that doesn't equal a strong fanbase, does it? Madonna's fanbase is not stale, with the style changing, she gets new fans and loses old fans. Sure, there are always people getting into MJ's old stuff but it's easier to do it if you release some new music and go on tour instead of just rehashing your old hits. Tell me you're JOKING. With all what you said, I will always look at Madonna as a talentless singer who built her career on controversy and sex with nearly zero raw talent, she is following trends and silly things which is something that Mj would never follow...raw talent was the main reason of Mj's amazing career and publicity. Now about popularity? No one with a rational mind would say that madonna is bigger or more popluar than MJ, even people in refugees with NO TV know who MJ is , and it's even more naive and ridiculous to hint that MJ's fanbase exist only because of thriller, that utterly ridiculous Also, releasing albums continually will never ever make her a greater talent than MJ or in any way make her career better than MJ, MJ already made history when Madonna wasn't even exist. MICHAEL JACKSON
R.I.P مايكل جاكسون للأبد 1958 | |
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Cinnamon234 said: I really find it laughable how some Madonna fans like to make it seem as though she is so much bigger worldwide than Michael is and act like she's the biggest pop star of all time when she is not. Mike is really the only one who can compete with Madonna on a global scale and you guys know this. It's just plain silly to assume that his fanbase isn't at least equal to hers.
Now it's true he hasn't released new music in a while and is seen as a nostalgia act and rightfully so since he's been out of it for a while, but believe it or not he has gained fans from the trial and youtube as well. And nostalgia act or not, his back catalogue sells better than pretty much anyone in his peer group including Madonna. Madonna seems to maintain her fanbase and caters to them and that's why they keep buying her records. I don't think she's gained so many new fans over the years, she just caters to her fanbase. Fact of the matter though is that at the end of the day, both Madonna and Michael are big worldwide and have big fanbases. Their worst selling albums (American Life & Invincible) have still sold more than a lot of people's best selling albums. But MJ is out of the business, as I said, releasing compilations barely makes him any more relevant than a dissolved band or a deceased singer. Sorry but that's how it works in the pop business. There's no "if's" here, Madonna is the biggest touring solo act of 2008 and MJ is not here to compete and it doesn't seem he's coming back anytime soon. And Madonna does NOT cater to her fans, her releases always make a debate in her core fanbase, her fans come and go. There are many Madonna fans who don't like this era but loved the previous, or vice versa. No artist can stay big for years if they only cater to the fanbase, they have to reach to the masses to stay relevant. JackieBlue said: I still don't understand how Invincible suffered from poor promotion. Who didn't know Michael Jackson was releasing a new album?
I still say that's how he thought it would be. He expected everyone rushing to buy Invincible because it had "Michael Jackson" written on the cover and later put the blame on Sony that they didn't do enough promo to compete with current artists. seeingvoices12 said: Tell me you're JOKING.
With all what you said, I will always look at Madonna as a talentless singer who built her career on controversy and sex with nearly zero raw talent, she is following trends and silly things which is something that Mj would never follow...raw talent was the main reason of Mj's amazing career and publicity. Now about popularity? No one with a rational mind would say that madonna is bigger or more popluar than MJ, even people in refugees with NO TV know who MJ is , and it's even more naive and ridiculous to hint that MJ's fanbase exist only because of thriller, that utterly ridiculous Also, releasing albums continually will never ever make her a greater talent than MJ or in any way make her career better than MJ, MJ already made history when Madonna wasn't even exist. I never disputed MJ's talent, but I love how the Madonna haters always claim Madonna has a 25+ year long career because of following trends and causing controversy, conveniently forgetting that her 2 least successful eras were direct results of controversy. Also, MJ is also famous for getting headlines that had NOTHING to do with his music or talent, a MJ fan should know that. I didn't say his fanbase exists only because of Thriller but in 2008 that's what he's mostly remembered for, as the whole Thriller 25 campaign proved it to be. What you said about MJ definitely stands for Madonna, even if when it was cool to dislike her, she remained popular. And again, who talked about Madonna being a greater talent? I didn't even say "Madonna is better, MJ sucks". I just discussed their status today and their relevance in the pop industry, why do MJ fans have to turn that into "Madonna is a talentless slut who got lucky" all the time? | |
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LiveToTell86 said: why do MJ fans have to turn that into "Madonna is a talentless slut who got lucky" all the time?
Because Madonna is a talentless slut who got lucky. Is MJ finished? Don't write the death sentence on him, yet. Let's just wait and see. | |
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angel345 said: LiveToTell86 said: why do MJ fans have to turn that into "Madonna is a talentless slut who got lucky" all the time?
Madonna is the biggest female superstar of all time unlike michael jackson who wishes he was LOL and by the way i would rather been known for being the talentless slut than what Micheal jackson has been accused of before.Because Madonna is a talentless slut who got lucky. Is MJ finished? Don't write the death sentence on him, yet. Let's just wait and see. | |
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I see that both sides have their ammunition ready.
It's great to be passionate about an artist, but it shouldn't come at the cost of finding the same ways of denigrating the other in thread after thread. I like both Madonna and MJ. I prefer Madonna, for a number of reasons, but both are among my top 20 artists. Both have had amazing careers, and neither of them can hope to ever reach the same peaks as they once had. I feel bad for MJ, because he seems to feel so much pressure to always assert himself as the biggest legend out there, and I think the fear of falling short will prevent him from releasing another studio album. Madonna seems to do as she pleases. I detest Hard Candy, but I admire her for still getting out there and doing her thing. Feel free to join in the Prince Album Poll 2018! Let'a celebrate his legacy by counting down the most beloved Prince albums, as decided by you! | |
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angel345 said: LiveToTell86 said: why do MJ fans have to turn that into "Madonna is a talentless slut who got lucky" all the time?
Because Madonna is a talentless slut who got lucky. Is MJ finished? Don't write the death sentence on him, yet. Let's just wait and see. Even if that's what you think about her, can't you handle a proper discussion without that, when it's not about who prefers who, or who's more talented? | |
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madsgreat said: angel345 said: LiveToTell86 said: why do MJ fans have to turn that into "Madonna is a talentless slut who got lucky" all the time?
Madonna is the biggest female superstar of all time unlike michael jackson who wishes he was LOL and by the way i would rather been known for being the talentless slut than what Micheal jackson has been accused of before.Because Madonna is a talentless slut who got lucky. Is MJ finished? Don't write the death sentence on him, yet. Let's just wait and see. And MJ is the biggest selling and overall superstar of all time. Acquitted on both charges. She can thank MTV for her sucess because if it wasn't for them, she would just be a little zit on the radar screen. MJ was already successful, but MTV gave him more of a fanbase, plus opened doors for other black and minority artist. Case closed. | |
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 Feel free to join in the Prince Album Poll 2018! Let'a celebrate his legacy by counting down the most beloved Prince albums, as decided by you! | |
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LiveToTell86 said: But MJ is out of the business, as I said, releasing compilations barely makes him any more relevant than a dissolved band or a deceased singer. Sorry but that's how it works in the pop business. There's no "if's" here, Madonna is the biggest touring solo act of 2008 and MJ is not here to compete and it doesn't seem he's coming back anytime soon.
And Madonna does NOT cater to her fans, her releases always make a debate in her core fanbase, her fans come and go. There are many Madonna fans who don't like this era but loved the previous, or vice versa. No artist can stay big for years if they only cater to the fanbase, they have to reach to the masses to stay relevant. Lol who even disputed any of this? I've always prefered Michael over Madonna and always will, but he is pretty much retired now as far as i'm concerned, whereas Madonna is still going strong. Madonna is very smart, ambitious and hard working. Her tour this year is now the highest grossing of all time for a solo artist I believe, so kudos to her. That is very impressive. I like a lot of Madonna's music and I am a (casual) fan. However, in your earlier statement you made it seem like Madonna is the only who has any global appeal and that Michael can't sell records anymore, which is just not true. Although Michael has lost many fans over the years and has had a lot of bad press (which he is to be blamed mainly for this), he can still sell records and there is still an audience there. He just has to want to come back bad enough. I think if he came out with the right music he could have somewhat of a comeback. I just wouldn't write him off so quickly if I were you. As far as Madonna goes, I still stick to what I said earlier about her catering to her fanbase. There is a formula there and her fans know what to expect from her. I for one have bought all of Madonna's albums and wasn't too crazy about "Hard Candy" overall but I still bought the album like many long time fans. The album has pretty much done as well as "American Life" did here though and you'd think that with a hit song like "4 Minutes", the album would have done better than it has. I'm not saying she hasn't gained new fans, of course she has, it would be silly to say otherwise, however I still believe her core fanbase consists mainly of people who have been following her career for years. They are the main ones buying her records. "And When The Groove Is Dead And Gone, You Know That Love Survives, So We Can Rock Forever" RIP MJ 
"Baby, that was much too fast"...Goodnight dear sweet Prince. I'll love you always | |
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TotalAlisa said: graecophilos said: okay, I think she has one of the very best catalogues. I agree, she had most of her hits in the 80s. on the other hand I think her albums became better in the 90s and 00s. Btw, personally I prefer some of her newer songs like Ray Of Light, Music, Don't Tell Me, Hung Up, Get Together, Jump, Heartbeat, Beat Goes On, Miles Away THAT SONG IS DEFINITELY NOT STRONG.
most of the new songs you listed i don't even know about. I know about her old songs from the 80s. Because they were good, but those new songs you mentioned are forgetable. How can you make such a blanket statement when you just admit you aren't even familiar with her later work? Just because it wasn't shoved down your throat like her 80's work as she was at the peak of her popularity then doesn't mean it has no artistic value. It's just less well known. Your post is a complete contradiction. Your posts in regard to Madonna come across as unknoweledgeable in this thread sorry to say. You make very generalized statements and treat your opinions as if they are fact. I can respect the opinions of people who honestly know of what they are speaking of but some saying Madonna isn't an artist like some in this thread have said, when they haven't heard anything but the singles or barely anything over the last decade are not qualified to make such statements. When you know more than Like A Virgin, Like A Prayer and Vogue and ditch the obvious bias because of her image or something she represents to you then get back to me. [Edited 12/15/08 21:54pm] | |
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angel345 said: SoulAlive said: If he's doing so well financially,why did he lose Neverland and is getting ready to auction off many of his belongings?  Look at you. You're guessing and wondering about him. He has played this game with the public for years but you know what? Let's continue to see what happens, if you will. Another thing to consider. If he were to sell his 50% share of Sony today or tomorrow, and Sony would love that, he would be sitting on a 15 billion dollar net worth. Personally, I believe that he's playing broke or how else would a broke man still has an estate in Bahrain, New York, and I believe Ireland, pay for a $50,000 place in Las Vegas as well and still go shopping in Beverly Hills? How many times does Michael get sued for not paying one bill or another? Why would he need to take $7 million from some sheik in Bahrain,if his finances are so great? You think that all of this is some silly "act" to fool the public,but I don't believe it.He's not broke but it's clear that he is living above his means.He's spending more money than he is making these days. | |
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angel345 said: LondonStyle said: come on she's a very basic singer and very basic dancer....she is not an artist in any shape or form.....music forget about it...please ...she just a girl who had a great look(body more than face) in the 80's and nice pop tunes...how her career has lasted this long is down to the fact their are very few "white girls" who can sing and dance or want to that, Why is Britney so big, just like madonna she can't sing or dance that great but its just enough to get buy pure marketing of very little talent.. I have wondered myself how her career lasted this long. I remember when she and Cyndi Lauper came out around the same time, but Cyndi never got the credit and hype that Madonna has, and she can sing circles around her. Again, it's about business, marketing, and it's not what you know, but who you know. Uh,maybe her career has lasted this long because she gives her fans what they want? Great pop/dance songs and amazing tours.Plus,she hasn't self-destructed like so many of her peers have (Whitney Houston,Michael Jackson,Boy George,etc).I don't think it's any more complicated than that. | |
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CrozzaUK said: horatio said: and she is a marketing ploy. she is an elaborate ad campaign for the people who decide what is the next in thing. she pays for it too, its not her ideas, she buys other peoples ideas. Through it all she is known for dance pop. Whether its hiring mega bucks producers like Timbaland, or recording songs with Steve Bray in a grimy New York studio - she's made music in a miriad of different ways, with a variety of people. Sure she relies on a collaborator, but that doesnt mean she brings nothing to the table. She shapeshifts throughout her career because she gets bored. This is also why she can put on a brand new tour every couple of years, fill half of it with new songs, and still sell it out. She doesnt always get it right, but its always interesting - and at the root of it are consistently good pop songs. It makes people feel better to focus on the marketing and the image because they dont want to contemplate the posibility she may actually be good at what she does. She has directed her career from the off. Sure she's had help along the way, but very few artists can lay claim to being such masters of their own destiny. Exactly  | |
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horatio said:
there is nothing unique about what she brings to the table. People get bored period. People in general change through their lives, what they wear and furnish their homes with. Whats the latest trend in eco-thinking. etc. New trends are created to fill those voids. The most she has done is recycle old ideas for people who are unfamiliar with them.  Nothing done in pop music is "unique".Everything has been done before.As I said before,Madonna keeps her fans happy with great dance/pop songs and incredible tours.That's why she has lasted all these years.It's really that simple.I don't see why the haters spend so much time trying to analyze her longevity and come up with silly theories about why she is successful. | |
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angel345 said: Madonna is a talentless slut who got lucky.
Madonna has been a successful artist since 1983.Nobody stays "lucky" for that long,lol. Is MJ finished? Don't write the death sentence on him, yet. Let's just wait and see.
Don't hold your breath
. [Edited 12/16/08 1:37am] | |
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seeingvoices12 said: I will always look at Madonna as a talentless singer who built her career on controversy and sex with nearly zero raw talent
You can look at Madonna anyway you like.It still won't change the fact that she is one of the biggest female pop artists ever and has accomplished more than most pop artists ever will. she is following trends and silly things which is something that Mj would never follow...raw talent was the main reason of Mj's amazing career and publicity
Let's see...MJ routuinely works with "hot" producers like will.i.am,R.Kelly,Ne-Yo,etc and you claim that he's not following trends?? Whatever you say
Now about popularity? No one with a rational mind would say that madonna is bigger or more popluar than MJ, even people in refugees with NO TV know who MJ is , and it's even more naive and ridiculous to hint that MJ's fanbase exist only because of thriller, that utterly ridiculous
Sadly,MJ is popular these days but for all the wrong reasons.Nobody's talking about his amazing new music or his incredible,record-breaking tours because there aren't any.How many years has it been since he's been in the news for something positive? I rest my case. Also, releasing albums continually will never ever make her a greater talent than MJ or in any way make her career better than MJ, MJ already made history when Madonna wasn't even exist.
Like I said before,you can't really compare Madonna and Michael's careers because he is basically retired.Face it,you're not gonna ever get a tour and who knows when or if his new album will ever be released? You can't compare an active,working artist with someone who sits on his lazy ass year after year,living off royalties. | |
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Cinnamon234 said: Lol who even disputed any of this? I've always prefered Michael over Madonna and always will, but he is pretty much retired now as far as i'm concerned, whereas Madonna is still going strong. Madonna is very smart, ambitious and hard working. Her tour this year is now the highest grossing of all time for a solo artist I believe, so kudos to her. That is very impressive. I like a lot of Madonna's music and I am a (casual) fan. However, in your earlier statement you made it seem like Madonna is the only who has any global appeal and that Michael can't sell records anymore, which is just not true. Although Michael has lost many fans over the years and has had a lot of bad press (which he is to be blamed mainly for this), he can still sell records and there is still an audience there. He just has to want to come back bad enough. I think if he came out with the right music he could have somewhat of a comeback. I just wouldn't write him off so quickly if I were you.
As far as Madonna goes, I still stick to what I said earlier about her catering to her fanbase. There is a formula there and her fans know what to expect from her. I for one have bought all of Madonna's albums and wasn't too crazy about "Hard Candy" overall but I still bought the album like many long time fans. The album has pretty much done as well as "American Life" did here though and you'd think that with a hit song like "4 Minutes", the album would have done better than it has. I'm not saying she hasn't gained new fans, of course she has, it would be silly to say otherwise, however I still believe her core fanbase consists mainly of people who have been following her career for years. They are the main ones buying her records. That was the whole subject of the thread, that Madonna can still go on. Currently, everyone has every right to write MJ off after years of "my new album is almost finished" and shit like that that seems to be only believed buy his fans. He also released more compilations this year than any 80s artist, that surely helps in writing him off, don't you think? Madonna is not following a formula demanded by fans, if she was, we'd only get albums produced by William Orbit & Patrick Leonard. Most fans opposed of Madonna having a hip hop taste in her album. Hard Candy sold in 7 months as much as American Life sold in 5 years, with collapsing CD sales, the comparison is pointless. "4 Minutes" sold 2.2 million, nowadays people buy singles instead of albums, obviously this era was successful, unlike American Life. An artist cannot have 3 million fans for 25 years that keep on buying everything she releases, it's not possible. Madonna always found a way to stay interesting and did the change so she didn't become a "fans act" like Prince. | |
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SoulAlive said: Let's see...MJ routuinely works with "hot" producers like will.i.am,R.Kelly,Ne-Yo,etc and you claim that he's not following trends?? Whatever you say
MJ was quick to jump on the New Jack Swing bandwagon in 1991. The lead-off single of HIStory was performed with Janet and produced by Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis, that's nothing different from a Timberlake/Timbaland produced song in 2008. "You Are Not Alone" was not even written by MJ, it was a formulatic ballad after Boyz II Men success. Not to mention the obligatory "rock tingled" song of each MJ album since "Beat It"... | |
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LiveToTell86 said: SoulAlive said: Let's see...MJ routuinely works with "hot" producers like will.i.am,R.Kelly,Ne-Yo,etc and you claim that he's not following trends?? Whatever you say
MJ was quick to jump on the New Jack Swing bandwagon in 1991. The lead-off single of HIStory was performed with Janet and produced by Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis, that's nothing different from a Timberlake/Timbaland produced song in 2008. "You Are Not Alone" was not even written by MJ, it was a formulatic ballad after Boyz II Men success. Not to mention the obligatory "rock tingled" song of each MJ album since "Beat It"... Exactly! A few MJ fans on this thread are criticizing Madonna for "following trends" when Michael has been following trends for decades. | |
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horatio said: CrozzaUK said: Through it all she is known for dance pop. Whether its hiring mega bucks producers like Timbaland, or recording songs with Steve Bray in a grimy New York studio - she's made music in a miriad of different ways, with a variety of people. Sure she relies on a collaborator, but that doesnt mean she brings nothing to the table. She shapeshifts throughout her career because she gets bored. This is also why she can put on a brand new tour every couple of years, fill half of it with new songs, and still sell it out. She doesnt always get it right, but its always interesting - and at the root of it are consistently good pop songs. It makes people feel better to focus on the marketing and the image because they dont want to contemplate the posibility she may actually be good at what she does. She has directed her career from the off. Sure she's had help along the way, but very few artists can lay claim to being such masters of their own destiny.
there is nothing unique about what she brings to the table. People get bored period. People in general change through their lives, what they wear and furnish their homes with. Whats the latest trend in eco-thinking. etc. New trends are created to fill those voids. The most she has done is recycle old ideas for people who are unfamiliar with them. You just described 95% of music today. Most musicians record as part of a collaboration. Of course there are the odd people like Prince who can do it all - but most require assistance in some form. I never say madonna is a totally groundbreaking artist, but compared to her peers, she's more willing than most to try somethingn new to her, and step out of the comfort zone. MJ has produced a rehashed version of the same album since Bad. Mariah follows a pretty tight formula. janet has been producing the same albums for the last decade - and Prince has been lost in his own world of music for the last 15 years (dont get me wrong i like him for that). As Ive asserted on this forum before, if madonna brings nothing to the table, and what she does is so easy, how come no one else has managed to do it as successfully as her. [Edited 12/16/08 2:36am] | |
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LiveToTell86 said: Cinnamon234 said: I really find it laughable how some Madonna fans like to make it seem as though she is so much bigger worldwide than Michael is and act like she's the biggest pop star of all time when she is not. Mike is really the only one who can compete with Madonna on a global scale and you guys know this. It's just plain silly to assume that his fanbase isn't at least equal to hers.
Now it's true he hasn't released new music in a while and is seen as a nostalgia act and rightfully so since he's been out of it for a while, but believe it or not he has gained fans from the trial and youtube as well. And nostalgia act or not, his back catalogue sells better than pretty much anyone in his peer group including Madonna. Madonna seems to maintain her fanbase and caters to them and that's why they keep buying her records. I don't think she's gained so many new fans over the years, she just caters to her fanbase. Fact of the matter though is that at the end of the day, both Madonna and Michael are big worldwide and have big fanbases. Their worst selling albums (American Life & Invincible) have still sold more than a lot of people's best selling albums. But MJ is out of the business, as I said, releasing compilations barely makes him any more relevant than a dissolved band or a deceased singer. Sorry but that's how it works in the pop business. There's no "if's" here, Madonna is the biggest touring solo act of 2008 and MJ is not here to compete and it doesn't seem he's coming back anytime soon. And Madonna does NOT cater to her fans, her releases always make a debate in her core fanbase, her fans come and go. There are many Madonna fans who don't like this era but loved the previous, or vice versa. No artist can stay big for years if they only cater to the fanbase, they have to reach to the masses to stay relevant. JackieBlue said: I still say that's how he thought it would be. He expected everyone rushing to buy Invincible because it had "Michael Jackson" written on the cover and later put the blame on Sony that they didn't do enough promo to compete with current artists. seeingvoices12 said: Tell me you're JOKING.
With all what you said, I will always look at Madonna as a talentless singer who built her career on controversy and sex with nearly zero raw talent, she is following trends and silly things which is something that Mj would never follow...raw talent was the main reason of Mj's amazing career and publicity. Now about popularity? No one with a rational mind would say that madonna is bigger or more popluar than MJ, even people in refugees with NO TV know who MJ is , and it's even more naive and ridiculous to hint that MJ's fanbase exist only because of thriller, that utterly ridiculous Also, releasing albums continually will never ever make her a greater talent than MJ or in any way make her career better than MJ, MJ already made history when Madonna wasn't even exist. I never disputed MJ's talent, but I love how the Madonna haters always claim Madonna has a 25+ year long career because of following trends and causing controversy, conveniently forgetting that her 2 least successful eras were direct results of controversy. Also, MJ is also famous for getting headlines that had NOTHING to do with his music or talent, a MJ fan should know that. I didn't say his fanbase exists only because of Thriller but in 2008 that's what he's mostly remembered for, as the whole Thriller 25 campaign proved it to be. What you said about MJ definitely stands for Madonna, even if when it was cool to dislike her, she remained popular. And again, who talked about Madonna being a greater talent? I didn't even say "Madonna is better, MJ sucks". I just discussed their status today and their relevance in the pop industry, why do MJ fans have to turn that into "Madonna is a talentless slut who got lucky" all the time? GREAT posting, man! But most of Madonna's controversies HAVE something to do with her music or other projects. Whereas MJ always made a fool out of him with oxygen chambers. What did this have to do with his music? | |
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angel345 said: JackieBlue said: I still don't understand how Invincible suffered from poor promotion. Who didn't know Michael Jackson was releasing a new album?
You know it, I know it, and MJ knows that whenever he releases his albums, it comes with a big time promotion. "Thriller", "Bad", and "Dangerous" was constantly on the radio, but "History" and "Invincible", barely. That's why he was disappointed when Sony didn't give it big time promotion. Perhaps Sony was pissed at him for spending $30 million (and several years) just to record the album Their attitude was probably "We already gave him a ton of money,he doesn't get any more"...lol... | |
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angel345 said: MJ is the biggest selling and overall superstar of all time.
I actually feel sorry for MJ fans like yourself.All you can talk about are record sales and past achievements.Yes,'Thriller' is the biggest selling album of all time,but the only ones who care about that are his diehard fans. Acquitted on both charges.
and yet,his reputation is ruined.Even though he was aquitted,there will always be people who think he is guilty.Those charges will forever hang over him like a dark cloud. She can thank MTV for her success because if it wasn't for them, she would just be a little zit on the radar screen. MJ was already successful, but MTV gave him more of a fanbase, plus opened doors for other black and minority artist. Case closed.
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