The early beginnings with the introduction of rap in the late 70’s with , “The Message”, “Rappers Delight”, to one of my all time favorite records, "Paid In Full" by Eric B and Rakim, were incredible.

I started to see a change after Run DMC, the to me are the catalyst of Shit Hop, only to be solidified in the 90's with the arival of Puff Daddy and The Fresh Prince.

There were all kinds of great flavors and styles in the early days, Africa Bambatta, The Beastie Boys, Public Enemy, NWA ,De La Soul and such, but the clown heavy style of Run DMC mixed in with NWA is what ended up sticking and defining the genre.

That my idea,

Tell me what you think?
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In the early 1990s when it became stripped down, midtempo, and started using that weak sounding drum machine that barely taps. Actually, shit hop was around in the late 1980s but it was underground. Only the rap jams made it to the radio back then.
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[Edited 5/20/08 17:56pm]

After the death of Tupac and B.I.G. Because at least they kept it real, and like the other guy , when Puff daddy came on and diposable rappers like Lil Jon who are just a modern day minstrel show.
When hip hop lost its ambition as a mouthpiece of the underclass and became a platform to promote, bling, hoes, drugs, reputations, power and homiez

When the Org tossed free speech out the window.

It was already shit hop years before those two artists came on the scene and both of them were shit hoppers themselves.....weak sounding drum machines that barely tap, no instruments, samples, glorifying thug trash, never getting past midtempo.....Actually, the two of them helped shit hop to grow to huge heights and their deaths were the worst thing that could have happened because it made them both undeserving legends. Now people rave on about their dull music to the point that it will never go out of style.
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[Edited 5/21/08 6:26am]

When Ice-T started to worry more on his acting than on his rhyming skills


There must be great HipHop music still in the US, though, or not???

vainandy said:

Couldn't agree more with you, those drum machines make me wanna puke.

Ahhhhh... one of my favourite topics!

It all started 2 go 2 shit quickly around 1994.

Puffy was essentially the death of good hip-hop and R&B.

When people started calling Biggie Smalls "the greatest", I knew it was over.

Hip-Hop used 2 be exciting, diverse, and had something 2 say.

Not 2 mention that both lyrically and musically, it had... um... SKILLS.

vainandy said:

Gotta go with Andy here. Serious hip-hop heads laughed at Tupac and Biggie.

Those of us raised with Rakim, Big Daddy Kane, Tribe Called Quest, etc.
[Edited 5/21/08 9:14am]

Hip hop was hip hop until 1995 then R n B and hip hop began to merge and it became weak, watered down and more unoffensive, Old skool hip hop was based on heavy funk and even rock samples the drum were alot heavier and the sound was always more raw. New hip hop is just a synthesiser and 80's sounding basslines. The main part of hip hop now is the chorus which is always r n b. I really wouldn't even consider stuff like t pain, akon, flo rida, timbaland as hip hop at all it is r n b. It is also so over produced, i mean just listen to akon or t pain they would never be able to sing live like that in a million years and it sounds irritating and stupid.

When I was growing up I remember that hip hop was so diverse that it embraced a wide variety of sounds, I don’t know if "beat box" as mentioned on another thread would be classified as hip hop but it was more embraced by the young hip hop crowd that i grew up with than the pop scene, same with "genius of love" by the tom tom club, Herbie Hancock's "rock it" heck Krafwork was embraced by Africa Bamabtta and "Tour de France" was a hip hop staple back in the day.
Another question would be what exactly is hip hop?
[Edited 5/21/08 13:23pm]

Giovanni777 said:

Dang...you made me pull out "I Get the Job Done."

Day 1.

Genesia said:

I WORK.

Here's the thing

Hip Hop went underground and RAP became mainstream. It merged with R&B making both genres almost WORTHLESS

bboy87 said:

I agree in principle, but it has become one the biggest money making machine in music for the last 5 years, ....heck pop radio is full of it's influence in some way or another. it just may be the pop sound for this generation.

when i was a kid it was almost tottally underground, with kids passing mix tapes around.

I think the death of 2Pac & Biggie really hurt the industry, not because they were so great (I am somewhat a fan of 2Pac, not so much Biggie) but because of the subsequent adulation and idolatry.

When Pac was alive gangsta rap was big, but it was just one type of hip hop. With Pac becoming the new Jesus, now the only way to be a rapper is to have been shot at least twice.

NWA was interesting because it was different & new. And it could be argued that they (and Snoop & Pac) were voicing some kind of truth about life in their world. But it's pretty clear that rappers aren't reflecting the truth anymore, they're selling out to an image.
[Edited 5/21/08 13:36pm]

when vainandy declared it finalized it , notarized it and finally made us all admit he is daaaaang right about it.

Hip Hop is an embarrassment to art and humanity.

LinnLM1 said:

i wouldnt go that far...humanity has no shame, look at the popularity of american idol!

violetblues said:

Indeed, humanity produces things like Hitler, war, and East St. Louis
[Edited 5/21/08 14:10pm]

VoicesCarry said:

LinnLM1 said:

In my mind I think Master P. Before him to be taken serious you had to have at least some lyric content to be respected. He made the no talent emcee acceptable. He was proud of the fact he could not rhyme. He never tried to get better. Most of that music was off key bringing in the error of the 'hood' producer who made HORRID tracks. [disclaimer I am black so no racist rants please] While business wise I respect him, he hurt hip hop overall

DecaturStone said:

he doesn't get nearly enough credit for how much he sucked!

NDRU said:

Because we keep trying to forget he ever existed.

DecaturStone said:

I agree -- the emergence of shit hop started with Master P. As much as some people want to pin that on Sean "Puffy" Combs, P. Diddy is more of a continuation of the crossover-orient appeal of M.C. Hammer (slightly serious and a front-runner, slightly corny enough to appeal beyond the core audience).

LinnLM1 said:

Calm down.