Neophyte said:

I completely agree with you there. To me music is about a feeling it gives you, not the color of one's skin. If an Amy Winehouse album moves me more than an Angie Stone record, then who the hell cares?? Its all music.

BUT, I also agree that black soul artists should be given just as fair a shot as white soul artists. I actually AGREE completely with Estelle, just in my opinion, she is unfairly putting down fellow musicians music when thats not even what its about. She should stick to critizing the industry (the real culprits here- because realistically mainstream audience will like whatever they are force fed ) and get off these other chicks backs.

All Im sayin is she's got the right idea, but she's throwing rocks at the wrong school bus

Well maybe if every "soul singer" didn't incorporate shit-hop into their music...

Which Duffy sure doesn't do.

Stymie said:

You're not saying this because you is black and I am white, huh? Ivy???

I more or less wanted to say that Amy's music (or voice) has more soul than that Estelle-chick!!!

abierman said:

No, sir. I say that from being immersed in soul music for the last 30 years.

BlaqueKnight said:

I agree with this and your previous post about Chrisete Michele, et., al. However, and this may not be what your referring to but, the Duffy chick does have a couple black folks in the US version of the "Mercy" song. It's the UK version of the video that is devoid of "color".

I just watched videos of Duffy, Estelle and Adele.

Duffy nice voice but the style is hardly original it is Motown-ish.

Adele also nice voice but not really my cup of tea because she seems like she only does these slow sad ass ballads -- dull, dull, dull.

Estelle was really a surprise she's more late 80's early 90's R&B sounding to me.

I love that Duffy says, "I think the darker and more mysterious and the more unknown something is, the more you can make it your own."

That's pretty much textbook exoticizing-the-other right there.

I agree with Estelle's main point, even if not with all of what she said. That said, the Adele song is easily as good as (if not better than) her Kanye track.
[Edited 4/17/08 9:50am]

Who the fuck is Duffy? Who the fuck is Estelle?
Whoever the fuck Duffy is, I'll agree with her on one thing. Being black doesn't make one soulful. I think she's a bit confused if she credits the Rolling Stones as one of her soul influences.

Stymie said:

Amy Winehouse is soulful with a capital S. Hate it or love it, that is a fact. Her music may not be soul music but her voice is undeniably soulful.

It's funny, this thread has made me fall in love with Adele, who I'd never heard of.

Her cover of "Make You Feel My Love"
http://www.youtube.com/wa...re=related

dseann said:

Where did I say the chick wasn't soulful? I said it wasn't soul music. WTF is wrong with people?

Ifsixwuz9 said:

I've only seen the video on youtube. The "official" vid according to them must be the UK one. That's still deception. Its like saying "we feel this way but since we stole this from US R&B we better throw in a couple of blacks so they won't hate us. The whole thing wreaks of insincerity. Eff this broad. I'm gonna go "Do the 45" just for that. Its way funkier.

Stymie said:

No one posted anything about Amy's music being soul music. The post stated that her album was more soulful than Ashanti's. All I'm saying is that Amy is soulful.

dseann said:

I guess what we're trying to say is that that Estelle-chick needs to shut the fuck up!!!! God, I can't stand that American Boy song with her stupid 'posh' UK-accent.....oh, somebody please shoot Kanye West, you'll get away with it.....just watch this:

I don't agree with everything she said but a lot of it was just plain old common sense, and Duffy's response was dumb even by pop star standards. Talk about missing the point.

The only black artists in the British charts nowadays are American ones, and the only reason Estelle is number one now is because SHE WENT TO AMERICA. That's a sorry state of affairs.

The key point she made though was this....."The record labels just don't know where to go. They're not creative or imaginative. They try to sell everything as 'a version of ...'". That is the key right there, but it's not just a question of how they handle the artists they've got, it's about the artists they choose to sign in the first place. They signed Adele and Duffy because they are Amy Winehouse clones, plain and simple. Adele went to the same school as Amy Winehouse and has ripped off her vocal style so blatantly that Amy would have every right to slap the bitch from here to Timbuctoo if they ever met. Amy was different to what was going on when she came out. She was just making the music she loved. The lesson record companies should take from that is..... "Sign distinctive artists". Instead the lesson they take is..... "Sign Amy copycats". Their whole mindset is backward. There is a vacuum where their vision is supposed to be.

Hold on a minute. I'll admit that I'm fully ignorant of the UK soul scene, as I've never been to England. Estelle may have a point that black soul artists have a more difficult time getting signed there- I wouldn't know.

But I think it's utter horseshit to say that because "Mercy" was inspired by soul music, it must feature some black people in the video. Yeah, Duffy is white. Yeah, soul music is largely a black artform. But to infer that the "Mercy" video should have included some token black people is just ridiculous. It's not like she's Elvis or Led Zeppelin totally stealing songs and not owning up to the influence. So there are no black people in the video. Who cares?

I also think it's stupid to assume that because Rockferry has soul elements, Duffy is only allowed to mention classic soul as an influence. Heck, I've written some songs myself, and as much as I love Missy Elliott, I don't think that my songs would reflect her style. In any case, what I think makes "Mercy" so great is that it marries a lot of different styles. That psychedelic organ line running through adds a delicious flavor, but I haven't heard anyone slam her for not citing The Doors.

I understand that it is human nature to try to pidgeonhole, but this is taking it too far. It's alright to not like Duffy's music, but to berate her for such trivial things as an inoffensive music video and being influenced by the Rolling Stones is a little silly.

Estelle could have made her point without disparaging other artists.

Moonbeam said:

I agree.

But Duffy's definitely not off the hook. So much of "Mercy" has been lifted from a demo that was locked away from another artist from N.Europe who was famous decades ago. I take real issue with her and her "people" for that to the point of not being able to embrace her work...Having heard both versions of the song, I'm not really feeling her right now. At ALL.

Ottensen said:

I haven't heard this. What demo, and what singer?

I would hardly call Duffy "soul" anyway. She's soul influenced. Her sound is as much Marianne Faithfull as it is Aretha Franklin.

I think shes more like a new Dusty Springfield than a Diana Ross.

Here's a link to here first single "Rockferry". Much better than "Mercy".

http://www.youtube.com/wa...lcRRnbqS8Y

Jesus, there are some senseless fuckers commenting in this thread. How the fuck does Duffy sound like Dusty Springfield? She wishes... Dusty had a gorgeous easy natural rich tone...Duffy sounds like a nasal bleating sheep.

Estelle is no better. She's no singer, just a shitty cow who's been given a second chance, and one who can't judge "soul", owing to her poor voice. Big deal, she's black...but she can't sing. Well that's one stereotype she falls short of. Shame, as she could direct her point to the music industry, not the singers...of course the industry is racist...the lighter the skin, the more "sellable" they seem. That's bullshit.

But she's better than Duffy. Fuck me, even Richard Simmons is a better singer than Duffy. Duffy is a stupid arrogant Welsh piece of shit.

Mong said:

Tell us how you really feel.

Eff Duffy
Eff Estelle
Eff Amy Crackhouse

and

EFF

TEENA MARIE

Stymie said:

Amy Whinehouse sounds like a straight rip off of the Marvelettes to me.
And before anyone says what i have against white artists?
Nothing because i am a fan of average white band, the police, and
hall & oates.

estelle81 said:

This is what the fuck i'm talkin bout right here. Forget that amy whinehouse,
estelle, and duffy bullshit. This is real mothafuckin down home raw soul here.
Teena Marie has always been a staple on R&b radio and her audiences have
definitely been black listeners. She breathe and eat soul music.
Testament to the fact is she has had only one crossover hit lover girl.
All her other hits have been a staple on black radio.

Dance said:

You don't really mean that

estelle81 said:

I mean that shit. I'm tired of people raving about that chick and her yelling squealing ass. She's worse than any of the random chicks that nearly ruined some of P's records with that same psycho screaming mess.

She's Yoko Ono with decent producers.

phunkdaddy said:

Hall & Oates, the legit white soul-duo! (not because YOU like 'em! )

I'll ask what I asked in the thread that was posted when Estelle made her comments a few weeks ago.


What percentage of the British population is "black"? To make it more relevant, what percentage of all musical acts in Britain are "black" and how many "black" acts are there on the British charts from week to week?

And does Estelle not realize that the history of "black" music in Britain essentially [i]IS[/b] white artists covering/emulating/(re-)creating it? It's no one's fault that Estelle was born or lives in a country where there isn't a large black population, much of a black cultural experience, or a large number of black artists to be promoted.

What's her beef?

I actually happen to like Estelle's song "American Boy" I understand her points, and there are things to agree with in them. She is, however, just running her mouth because she's up to bat and knows there's a full count on her career.

And Duffy really shouldn't have bothered responding to this. She's let herself be dragged into a public debate provoked by a desperate woman.

Mong said:

You brain is still living up you your name I see!