midnightmover said:[quote]

DaveT said:

I guess I must be a bit "simple" when it comes to things like this. I'm not one for devling too deep into the where's and why's of such matters, why Madonna performed the song in this way, how does she feel for her fans, etc.... life is too short!

Bottom line for me is....Is Live To Tell a great track: yes. Was I thoroughly entertained by the performance of it at the show: yes. That's all I need to know!
[Edited 4/17/08 7:29am]

DaveT said:

See.. You're a Madonna fan. It's as simple as that.

But there are some of us who aren't Madonna fans, and it's not because we are jealous of her. We just aren't huge fans of hers.

I guess what I object to is that some fans think we are missing something, when no.. we get it, but we just don't buy into it.

I do think she's overrated as a music artist. I just don't see her as any better or worse than any other act in her "genre" whatever that might be except for her promotion, her choice of producers, her publicist, other members of her team, her choice to bite-off the electronica vibe--which was brilliant because it most closely related to her style to begin with.

This reinvention thing.. it's not like she became a totally different artist--as her fans wanted her to become a totally different artist.

I do think she takes herself way too seriously, but then again A LOT of celebrities take themselves way to seriously. It's not just Madonna.

Isel said:

You hit the nail on the head. It comes from being a fan. I've never tried to push any of the music I listen to, including Madge, onto anyone else...I think its much more fun for someone to discover them on their own. I totally see where you're coming from with Madonna...its the same problem I have with The Beatles. As you said, I get it and I appreciate what they have achieved, I just don't "buy into it" as you say and I don't like them (I much prefer The Stones and the Floyd )

Its that old adage of fan versus non fan. As a fan of Madonna her music has been there with me in moments of my life, moments that weren't in yours (for example, being a twelve year old boy when Erotica was released and receiving something of a sexual education from the album, or borrowing my cousins vinyl copy of Like A Prayer when I was even younger and annoying my Mum with it all summer)....its these things I think that really make an artist special to someone, instances that cause us to become a little blind to those that "don't get it" or enjoy said artist as much as we do.
[Edited 4/17/08 8:28am]

I'm a bit slow today. I looked at this picture again and just realized how it proves another of Burchill's points.




[Edited 4/17/08 8:58am]

Isel said:

I agree with you 100%. I loved Madonna...and then "Music" came out and even though many say it's one of her best albums, all that warbling and that video that could cause seizures did nothing for me and made me lose interest in her. I seriously think I outgrew being a fan of hers after 'Bedtime Stories'. In saying that, I have no problem saying that Madonna is truly a pop culture icon.

I think she's a phenomenal business woman and if I had to take pointers from any artist about business matters, she'd be one of the top 5 people I'd go to for advice (Prince coming in at number 1). I may not be as ga-ga over her as I once was, but there have been songs released in recent years that I have no problem praising..."Die Another Day" and "Get Together" being two of them.

But, other than the fact that she's had such longetivity in the music biz, I don't see what really would make her any better or worse than other artists in her genre. She's overrated, but far from untalented. All I can say is that I hope I can still move that good when I'm in my late-40s.

agreed. her entire "london set(mc cartney, paltrow et al) seem utterly up their own asses and self-congratulatory.

meh