BlaqueKnight said:

100% correct. What's funny about these quotes though is they're coming from a woman who's whole career is based on making totally safe, non-threatening music. One thing's for sure though; when she does eventually make that political album it will be a total embarrassment. An embarrassment I'm greatly looking forward to.
[Edited 4/14/08 4:55am]

BlaqueKnight said:

Nope, you re write history when you claimed that "Gangsta rap was sensationalism and it came to the forefront because record labels understand sensationalism better than anything and they know how to exploit it for money

This is not true... Labels have always been extremly reluctant to sign gangsta rap artists ... The matter of fact, labels have ignored gangsta rap until Interscope (the most groundbreaking major label at that time) decided to sign a deal with Suge Knight... Before Interscope, most gansgta rappers came from indie scene... Labels have always been scared to sign gangsta rappers for bad image and the refusal from radio stations and MTV channels to play their music...

BlaqueKnight said:

First of all, Barack is not a leader of the black community or whatever... It's as stupid as saying Condoleeza Rice is a black leader...

Seems like you can't make the difference between black leaders and black politicians which is DIFFERENT...


Just because he's black doesn't mean he's a "black leader"... What you said he's plain ignorant...

And concerning gangsta rap, you are again wrong when you said Gangsta rap was an easy sell because sex & violence sells before anything else.

In fact, Sex and violence have always been a hard sell...

The matter of fact, major labels started to sell gangsta rap when it was ALREADY popular among teens...

BlaqueKnight said:

Excuse me but I HATE when white people use Nword to act or sound "black" ... So keep your racist slurs to yourself...

And I don't know where you get the idea that Pac or Biggie were leaders ???

Black people have never considered Pac or Biggie as leaders...

You have no clue what the black community is all about, in fact because you ain't black...

Timmy84 said:

You ain't black

krayzie said:

Neither am I.
But then again,
I didn't say nothin'.

krayzie said:

This statement alone negates EVERYTHING you have to say. Your name fits. You are absolutely out of your mind.
Sex and violence - a hard sell? You must not live in the United States.

Raze said:

right?? Talk about a contradiction. Also, there R many symbols that represent strength and power. She could have chosen a fist.

krayzie said:

It's an matter of being official. Obama is an elected official, Rice is an appointed official. They both have clearly designated constituencies that they are responsible to and have duties that extend far beyond racial issues. Yes they are black, but they ddon't have to "act black" to be effective.

"Black leaders" are not officials. They are cronies, hustlers, surrogates and street preachers. They represent a mob mentality and are beholden to themselves only. They are at their most effective when they "act black".

BlaqueKnight said:

-----
"WHO STOLE ALL OF THE SOUL FROM EVERY LAST RECORD SHE'S DONE!"

The same music industry nut jobs who marketed "ganster rap"

naaa about biggie and tupac? she was still in high school when they were killed. how could she be that knowledgable. suge had biggie in his hands when tupac got shot. no way yeah gangsta rap saw a market and people didn't respect that aspect and took drama into the gangsta rap part of music. it was odd, yes that both of the biggest names in rap at the time were shot, but naaahh no government there, just two big wigs who didn't like each other so they took out the biggest things that meant something to each of them.

She and her puppeteer can pull gimmicks outta their assholes all day everday. The fact of the matter is, both ran out of gimmicks to distract mofos from her hopelessly boring dull ass music.

How the fuck can one bring Huey with Pac & Biggie on the same breath and then have the dumb sense to call the latter 2 "great black leaders"? Retarded ass bitch.

Harlepolis said:

And your so upset because??

I don't know about Biggie, but Pac was raised by Black Panthers. From my understanding, the government was always threatened and paranoid by them. Pac had a ton of hip hop followers. If he wanted to rally up something he definitely could have.

And Alicia sold 3 million records in THREE MONTHS. What gimmick would she really need?
[Edited 4/14/08 14:48pm]

dragondayz said:

I'm SO done.

Harlepolis said:

Of course you are and you'd be surprised at all the intelligent people that think Alicia definitely has a point. I know that whatever she feels about the government shouldn't make for all of the name-calling. These theories don't and didn't come out the air.

dragondayz said:

Pac was an entertainer and had 0 political power. His fans would rally behind him if he was doing a show but his mixed-message ass couldn't organize his wallet, much less rally people to a cause. Don't be delusional. People weren't going to gather around Pac as any sort of leader and even less so with Biggie. Pac came out in the 80s/90s, not the 70 and I don't know how old you were but i can testify to the FACT that the black panther movement had long since died by the time Pac was popular. The government had NO reason to kill Pac or Biggie. Its the marytr syndrome again. Trying to make a dead celeb out to be more than they actually were.
As to the 3 million sold comment - have you no clue as to how music is marketed? She damn near sold a million just showing up in public with Clive Davis. The hype machine worked HARD on and for Alicia. That conspiracy shit is the pathway to get her dropped. If she gone all Farrakhan on her records, she'll be gone faster than the Macarena.

BlaqueKnight said:

The Black Panther movement may have been gone when he became popular, but since his family was apart of the movement of course their views would be instilled in him. Have you heard the interview of him when he was 17? He knew a lot and was concerned about way more than your average teen. And people also act like Tupac became this figure only after death which is false. He was on Ed Gordon and all through-out the media and had millions of fans when he was alive. I read on wikepedia the books he read and the people that inspired him...just think if he was to deliver his knowledge to the masses? Of course, they had a reason to be a bit scared.

I think people that dislike Alicia are the only ones that associate her with Clive every five seconds. You think that when I bought the record I had Clive in mind? What about the millions that loved her song No One? People, especially young ones, barely know who a Clive Davis is.
[Edited 4/14/08 16:14pm]

Anyway...

I feel her comments have either rubbed people the wrong way or have people believing that Pac and BIG more than what they were.

Anyway, time to destroy this shit.

So uh, anyone got a favorite Alicia song?
[Edited 4/14/08 16:33pm]

dragondayz said:

I know who Clive Davis was BEFORE Alicia. He's the one responsible for vainandy's favorite punching bag (Whitney ) and he's also rumored to use scheming tactics to make sure HIS artists got played over others and he's also famous for putting female artists against one another.

One time, Aretha Franklin signed to Arista to get some commercial swing back in her sales after it had dipped badly in her post-"Amazing Grace" Atlantic years and just as soon as she had found pop success again came Whitney Houston and Clive pumped Whitney to death until her success eclipsed all the other Arista artists. Aretha was incensed after that, lol. But she still kept recording for Arista albeit not always successfully.

As for 'Pac, I agree to a certain extent that he had a lot of great message songs (though BIG's lyrical flow was actually much better). Prison and Suge Knight fucked him up though. Plus to me it seemed like he was acting like his "Bishop" character from "Juice" more than anything. The real Tupac showed in some interviews including one with MTV where when his people told the interviewer that he wasn't allowed to talk about his 1994 sentence on assault charges he looked as if he heard his momma died or something.

And to correct Alicia, and I'm sure somebody already mentioned this (but fuck it, lol), gangsta rap wasn't a creation by the "major record labels", gangsta rap was around since like 1986, a time when rap in general was still fighting for mainstream acceptance (or was just finding it), when songs like "Six in the Mornin'" by Ice-T and "Boyz in the Hood" by NWA came out. BIG and Pac themselves rode to fame under independent labels like Giant, Bad Boy/Arista and Death Row/Interscope. During documentaries, it was assumed that the reason for the "beef" that occurred between East Coast and West Coast rappers was to boost BIG and Pac's profiles more than anything else. In the end, Pac and BIG were victims of the success that did come from their beef.

I know one thing though that we can all agree on, and that is, "why the fuck haven't their murders nor Jam Master Jay's been solved yet?"

dragondayz said:

The only reason he had to be scared is because he was an ASSHOLE. If you screw a man's wife and taunt him about it (Biggie) you SHOULD be scared, especially if he is the type to shoot your ass. I know Pacs family background. When you finish, he still was no leader. You're trying to make him out to be some kind of Farrakhan like figure. Get real. He was a clown. Please cease with the martyr/fan talk. There is NO BASIS WHATSOEVER to believe the federal government had anything to do with his death. Fools like him die young all of the time. Pac was a shit-starter. People like that tend to get their clock punched.
As for Clive - YOU don't need to know who he is. Its the people willing to invest who are interested in Clive. When Clive shows up with a "new girl", she's as good as gold. Its money in the bank. His track record is tight. You will buy what the radio tells you to buy because they will play it until you like it. They know all of the formulas.

BlaqueKnight said:

I was saying that the government could have possibly been scared. If the FBI was formed out of fear of the Black Panthers, and you see an extremely popular/controversial/vocal hip hop artist whose family was part of that movement, there's a possibility fear could have been there. Now, I don't totally agree with Alicia, but I don't disagree with her either as I'm still learning about the govt. and it's shadiness, and both artists. Like Timmy said, you also have to wonder why none of these murders have been solved.

Well the novelty of Alicia should be over now. He showed up with that girl 7yrs ago, and besides, if he's so respected and rides for Alicia so much maybe it's because he see's and saw something there? When I saw Alicia on Teen Summit years before Clive Davis, she had the same star quality that she has today. There's a machine behind every popular artist. I don't know why she gets so much flack.

dragondayz said:

Because she's with Clive Davis.

Timmy84 said:

dragondayz said:

And I am saying they had no reason to be. Pac posed NO THREAT WHATSOEVER to the Federal Government. Are they a bunch of paranoid fuckers? Yes. Enough to bump off a damn rapper for no reason? Maybe, but I don't believe that was the case at all. This is much, much smaller than you conspiracy theorists are trying to make it out to be. PAC WASN'T THAT IMPORTANT. By trying to overstate his relevance, you are attempting to imply that there was reason for the Feds to bump him off. In truth, there was none. He did not have the power to be able to "rally troops" because nobody was gonna "ride for Pac" other than a few fans and hood soldiers and it doesn't take the feds to bring them down. Local government can handle that nicely. He wasn't doing anything other than being caught up in his own mess - which got him killed.

Of course Clive saw something in Alicia - potential. A young, pretty girl who plays piano well and can sing. Consumers have no control over product. Like anything else, you are given a selection and told to choose. The labels choose who will be laid out for the public, not the other way around - yet they have found a million ways to make you THINK you're in control.

dragondayz said:

I'm gonna use that as part of my signature. Your question and my response.

BlaqueKnight said:

So your expressing your theories on the "brain-washing" of consumers by record labels, all while calling Alicia an idiot for expressing hers on gangsta rap and the government?

Well as mentioned in the article, there was a surveillance on Alicia and a few hip hop artists because they spoke out on Bush, and Lil'Cease(rapper/Biggie's relative) talked about how the FBI showed him pictures of Biggie and himself when neither of them had a clue they were being watched. We, or you, may not see the threat of either one of them, but they could have saw otherwise. Who knows?

dragondayz said:

Well the FBI are assholes anyway.
[Edited 4/14/08 17:44pm]

dragondayz said:

Theories? Are you clueless? I suppose you have absolutely no business or marketing background whatsoever? What you are trying to call "theories" are common marketing practices.
Don't try to twist it now, nobody ever said they weren't being watched - we all are. There is a HUGE jump between being watched and actually being KILLED. Between what Alicia and and what you said, neither of you have produced a reasonable explanation as to why the Feds would want to kill two clown ass rappers who were at war with each other over personal beefs anyway. Those conspiracy theories are far-fetched and have no facts to back them up. Where's the motive? There isn't one. That's why this theory is bullshit. Pac and Biggie weren't important enough for assassination. Prove me wrong.
If anything, the Feds would have been watching them for drug smuggling.
[Edited 4/14/08 18:00pm]

BlaqueKnight said:

I mean to say that I as a consumer really have no choice and only "think" I'm in control can be a theory, as well as being brain-washed by radio and them controlling what I like.

I actually believe there's truth to it, just how there could be some truth to what she's saying. Her point was that gangsta rap, and the mentality that it brought about, was of the same marketing (you speak of) to create more violence within our communities and against eachother, which could very well be true. My overall point is that we can't be so judgmental of her or think her theories are so far-fetched, especially not when we have some of our own. I think Tupac was influential and had millions of listeners and followers. I'm not 100% sold on the idea that the govt. had him or biggie murdered either, but it's not all that "out there" to believe.
[Edited 4/14/08 18:28pm]

dragondayz said:

If I believed every hair-brained conspiracy theorist, I'd be walking around in a bulletproof vest 24/7 and tin foil on my head. At some point, facts have to enter the equation. I'm not gullible enough to fall for any ol' theory without motive or facts to support it. Tupac had millions of LISTENERS. Followers are people who would dedicate their life to the cause of a person. I do not believe Tupac had millions of "followers". Again, there's a huge difference between being willing to stand in line for concert tickets and being willing to stand on a front line for someone. A plot for the government to kill Farrakhan, I can see. That has facts and motive. Tupac or Biggie? No.
[Edited 4/14/08 19:11pm]