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PrintableTuls101 said: Rodya24 said: Are you saying that Nile Rodgers and Babyface have not produced quality work with other artists? 
If she has such amazing musical prowess, like I said, I would love for her to work alone. I'm not saying that at all. I'm primarily speaking of the more unknown (until she worked with them anyways) producers such as Pat, William and Stuart who have since went on to work with others but the results aren't anywhere near what they were with her. For the third time...why do you think that is?? I'm just saying each and every one of them has said that she's underrated as a musician and that she's really easy to work with because she comes prepared with her own ideas and direction. And once again...are you suggesting that all of these producers over the years that have had praise for her are all liars? They are making things up? Of course, you lost all credibility earlier when you said MJ wrote none of his signature tunes alone, but I'm a charitable soul by nature, so I'll talk to you anyway. Take a look at this link. This is a song William Orbit produced for the girl group All Saints. It's called "Pure Shores" and was written by Orbit and the group's lead singer Shaznay Lewis. This song was a HUGE hit in every major market outside America. As you'll hear, Orbit uses the same signature sounds he used when he produced Madonna. The production is William Orbit through and through, but the song is way better than anything on that overrated snoozefest that is Ray Of Light. The only song on that album that comes close is "Frozen" which had a great melody writen by Pat Leonard (who wrote most of Madonna's best melodies). Take a listen. When you're done with this one I'll post another one for you. http://www.youtube.com/wa...2p2VJWNYZg “The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.”
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Rodya24 said: Tuls101 said: I'm not saying that at all. I'm primarily speaking of the more unknown (until she worked with them anyways) producers such as Pat, William and Stuart who have since went on to work with others but the results aren't anywhere near what they were with her. For the third time...why do you think that is?? I'm just saying each and every one of them has said that she's underrated as a musician and that she's really easy to work with because she comes prepared with her own ideas and direction. And once again...are you suggesting that all of these producers over the years that have had praise for her are all liars? They are making things up? I think they are well-paid. I have read articles in Rolling Stone Magazine and other rock music magazines in which producers and songwriters working with Timberlake heaped great praise on him. Again, I would love to see Madonna writing and producing her songs alone -- surely, she would if she was so talented musically. LOL...see anything to discredit her. Now they are all lying and they are just well paid. Every last one of them. Because lord knows Nile Rodgers was going to get a pretty penny for praising her in 1998 14 years AFTER the release of Like A Virgin. And I'm sure ex beau (that she dumped) Jellybean has gotten checks in the mail each time he has praised her musical ear over the last 25 years since they've dated/worked together. Possibly the most successful singles artist of all time who had no input in her music, yet manages to get credited on most of her hit singles. Shouldn't this dirty little secret have come out MANY MANY years ago? While most artists struggle to create 1 signature song she has about 10 yet she had nothing to do with there creation. | |
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Tuls101 said: Rodya24 said: I think they are well-paid. I have read articles in Rolling Stone Magazine and other rock music magazines in which producers and songwriters working with Timberlake heaped great praise on him. Again, I would love to see Madonna writing and producing her songs alone -- surely, she would if she was so talented musically. LOL...see anything to discredit her. Now they are all lying and they are just well paid. Every last one of them. Because lord knows Nile Rodgers was going to get a pretty penny for praising her in 1998 14 years AFTER the release of Like A Virgin. And I'm sure ex beau (that she dumped) Jellybean has gotten checks in the mail each time he has praised her musical ear over the last 25 years since they've dated/worked together. Possibly the most successful singles artist of all time who had no input in her music, yet manages to get credited on most of her hit singles. Shouldn't this dirty little secret have come out MANY MANY years ago? While most artists struggle to create 1 signature song she has about 10 yet she had nothing to do with there creation. 
Getting a co-writing credit on a song means little to me. I see Janet Jackson and Beyonce getting a co-writing credit on almost all of their songs. Do I think these female recording artists are amazing musical talents? No. And did I write that she has nothing to do with her creations? No. But unlike you, I do not think much of her musical prowess. If it is as you write it is, she would have written and produced alone a number of her songs already. She would have written and produced alone for other artists as well. | |
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midnightmover said: Tuls101 said: I'm not saying that at all. I'm primarily speaking of the more unknown (until she worked with them anyways) producers such as Pat, William and Stuart who have since went on to work with others but the results aren't anywhere near what they were with her. For the third time...why do you think that is?? I'm just saying each and every one of them has said that she's underrated as a musician and that she's really easy to work with because she comes prepared with her own ideas and direction. And once again...are you suggesting that all of these producers over the years that have had praise for her are all liars? They are making things up? Of course, you lost all credibility earlier when you said MJ wrote none of his signature tunes alone, but I'm a charitable soul by nature, so I'll talk to you anyway. Take a look at this link. This is a song William Orbit produced for the girl group All Saints. It's called "Pure Shores" and was written by Orbit and the group's lead singer Shaznay Lewis. This song was a HUGE hit in every major market outside America. As you'll hear, Orbit uses the same signature sounds he used when he produced Madonna. The production is William Orbit through and through, but the song is way better than anything on that overrated snoozefest that is Ray Of Light. The only song on that album that comes close is "Frozen" which had a great melody writen by Pat Leonard (who wrote most of Madonna's best melodies). Take a listen. When you're done with this one I'll post another one for you. http://www.youtube.com/wa...2p2VJWNYZg I remember that song. Great production, but where is the hook?? Oh yes....Madonna wasn't there to provide that. BTW...what "signature" Michael songs were Jones or Temperton not involved in? | |
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Rodya24 said: Tuls101 said: LOL...see anything to discredit her. Now they are all lying and they are just well paid. Every last one of them. Because lord knows Nile Rodgers was going to get a pretty penny for praising her in 1998 14 years AFTER the release of Like A Virgin. And I'm sure ex beau (that she dumped) Jellybean has gotten checks in the mail each time he has praised her musical ear over the last 25 years since they've dated/worked together. Possibly the most successful singles artist of all time who had no input in her music, yet manages to get credited on most of her hit singles. Shouldn't this dirty little secret have come out MANY MANY years ago? While most artists struggle to create 1 signature song she has about 10 yet she had nothing to do with there creation.
Getting a co-writing credit on a song means little to me. I see Janet Jackson and Beyonce getting a co-writing credit on almost all of their songs. Do I think these female recording artists are amazing musical talents? No. And did I write that she has nothing to do with her creations? No. But unlike you, I do not think much of her musical prowess. If it is as you write it is, she would have written and produced alone a number of her songs already. She would have written and produced alone for other artists as well. Tuls101 forgets to mention that Jelybean only produced one song for Madonna, "Holiday", which she had no hand in either writing or producing. “The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.”
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Tuls101 said: midnightmover said: Of course, you lost all credibility earlier when you said MJ wrote none of his signature tunes alone, but I'm a charitable soul by nature, so I'll talk to you anyway. Take a look at this link. This is a song William Orbit produced for the girl group All Saints. It's called "Pure Shores" and was written by Orbit and the group's lead singer Shaznay Lewis. This song was a HUGE hit in every major market outside America. As you'll hear, Orbit uses the same signature sounds he used when he produced Madonna. The production is William Orbit through and through, but the song is way better than anything on that overrated snoozefest that is Ray Of Light. The only song on that album that comes close is "Frozen" which had a great melody writen by Pat Leonard (who wrote most of Madonna's best melodies). Take a listen. When you're done with this one I'll post another one for you. http://www.youtube.com/wa...2p2VJWNYZg I remember that song. Great production, but where is the hook?? Oh yes....Madonna wasn't there to provide that. BTW...what "signature" Michael songs were Jones or Temperton not involved in? He meant songwriting. MJ wrote most of his signature songs alone. Don't Stop Til' You Ge Enough, Billie Jean, Beat It, Wanna Be Startin' Somethin', The Way You Make Me Feel, Smooth Criminal, Dirty Diana. The list goes on. Of course, Rod Temperton wrote Rock With You, Off The Wall, Burn This Disco Out, The Lady in My Life, Baby Be Mine, and Thriller. How about Madonna? Aside from Lucky Star, what songs has she written alone that are considered her signature songs? [Edited 2/11/08 13:39pm] [Edited 2/11/08 13:39pm] | |
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Rodya24 said: Tuls101 said: LOL...see anything to discredit her. Now they are all lying and they are just well paid. Every last one of them. Because lord knows Nile Rodgers was going to get a pretty penny for praising her in 1998 14 years AFTER the release of Like A Virgin. And I'm sure ex beau (that she dumped) Jellybean has gotten checks in the mail each time he has praised her musical ear over the last 25 years since they've dated/worked together. Possibly the most successful singles artist of all time who had no input in her music, yet manages to get credited on most of her hit singles. Shouldn't this dirty little secret have come out MANY MANY years ago? While most artists struggle to create 1 signature song she has about 10 yet she had nothing to do with there creation.
Getting a co-writing credit on a song means little to me. I see Janet Jackson and Beyonce getting a co-writing credit on almost all of their songs. Do I think these female recording artists are amazing musical talents? No. And did I write that she has nothing to do with her creations? No. But unlike you, I do not think much of her musical prowess. If it is as you write it is, she would have written and produced alone a number of her songs already. She would have written and produced alone for other artists as well. I'm not acting like she's John Lennon or Frank Zappa. But you act as if she is a producer's creation, that her success can all be attributed to her producers. That she has NO musical prowess and that's just not the case. The fact of the matter is that no matter who she works with or what style she incorporates into her music in the end it still sounds like a Madonna song. That is proof alone that she has some substantial musical prowess. Like that All Saints clip Midnightmover posted above...I think that song is shit, the production is great and YES it sounds like it could be on Ray Of Light. But there is no hook that keeps me wanting more.....that's the magic of a Madonna song. She's catchy as hell. That aspect of her music is NOT created by the producer, that is her. | |
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Best M pic I've ever seen  | |
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Rodya24 said: Tuls101 said: I remember that song. Great production, but where is the hook?? Oh yes....Madonna wasn't there to provide that. BTW...what "signature" Michael songs were Jones or Temperton not involved in? He meant songwriting. MJ wrote most of his signature songs alone. Don't Stop Til' You Ge Enough, Billie Jean, Beat It, Wanna Be Startin' Somethin', The Way You Make Me Feel, Smooth Criminal, Dirty Diana. The list goes on. Of course, Rod Temperton wrote Rock With You, Off The Wall, Burn This Disco Out, The Lady in My Life, Baby Be Mine, and Thriller. How about Madonna? Aside from Lucky Star, what songs has she written alone that are considered her signature songs? [Edited 2/11/08 13:39pm] [Edited 2/11/08 13:39pm] You mentioned writing AND producing in an earlier post but, anyways.....So I guess since it took more than 1 Beatle to write many of their classic songs, there artistic merit should be discredited? | |
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Tuls101 said: midnightmover said: Of course, you lost all credibility earlier when you said MJ wrote none of his signature tunes alone, but I'm a charitable soul by nature, so I'll talk to you anyway. Take a look at this link. This is a song William Orbit produced for the girl group All Saints. It's called "Pure Shores" and was written by Orbit and the group's lead singer Shaznay Lewis. This song was a HUGE hit in every major market outside America. As you'll hear, Orbit uses the same signature sounds he used when he produced Madonna. The production is William Orbit through and through, but the song is way better than anything on that overrated snoozefest that is Ray Of Light. The only song on that album that comes close is "Frozen" which had a great melody writen by Pat Leonard (who wrote most of Madonna's best melodies). Take a listen. When you're done with this one I'll post another one for you. http://www.youtube.com/wa...2p2VJWNYZg I remember that song. Great production, but where is the hook?? Oh yes....Madonna wasn't there to provide that. BTW...what "signature" Michael songs were Jones or Temperton not involved in? The whole song is a hook. Listen to the melody and the drama the tune's got. This song is better than pretty much everything on Ray of Light. It's also worth mentioning that the biggest hits on Ray Of Light (the title track and "Frozen") were mostly written by others. And by the way, you said Jackson had only written four songs alone that you knew of. Right then you exposed yourself as an ignoramus. He wrote MOST of his signature songs alone. He also produced great tracks like "Stranger In Moscow", and "Who Is It?" by himself, as well as writing and producing a great track for Diana Ross called "Muscles".  You really need to give up on these MJ comparisons. You are only digging yourself into an even deeper hole.[Edited 2/11/08 14:05pm] “The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.”
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Tuls101 said: Rodya24 said:
Getting a co-writing credit on a song means little to me. I see Janet Jackson and Beyonce getting a co-writing credit on almost all of their songs. Do I think these female recording artists are amazing musical talents? No. And did I write that she has nothing to do with her creations? No. But unlike you, I do not think much of her musical prowess. If it is as you write it is, she would have written and produced alone a number of her songs already. She would have written and produced alone for other artists as well. I'm not acting like she's John Lennon or Frank Zappa. But you act as if she is a producer's creation, that her success can all be attributed to her producers. That she has NO musical prowess and that's just not the case. The fact of the matter is that no matter who she works with or what style she incorporates into her music in the end it still sounds like a Madonna song. That is proof alone that she has some substantial musical prowess. Like that All Saints clip Midnightmover posted above...I think that song is shit, the production is great and YES it sounds like it could be on Ray Of Light. But there is no hook that keeps me wanting more.....that's the magic of a Madonna song. She's catchy as hell. That aspect of her music is NOT created by the producer, that is her. You miss the point. A number of her songs which have hooks and which are classics -- she had nothing to do with. Holiday, Like A Virgin, Material Girl, Crazy For You, etc. Even Papa Don't Preach was written when given to her, and she had little input in the songwriting after its initial creation. Same goes for Justify My Love. I believe one of Prince's protegees had to sue Lenny Kravitz for plagiarizing her material. I am not denying the fact that she has a good ear. But I disagree with your assessment of her musical prowess. [Edited 2/11/08 13:49pm] | |
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I thought it was a very good article, though a little overstated in an attempt to sound "deep."
Madonna has always been respecteed as a genius when it comes to the business of being a pop star. She would probably even admit herself that she's hardly the best musician. But, she is the best self-marketer and she knows the pop music biz. She probably laughs at more talented artists who don't have the ambitiion or the smarts to make it work for them. I never understand why critics compare pure pop stars to more naturally gifted musicians - they are delivering too completely different products for different purposes. I thought his point about an artists's creative curve was basically correct. For almost every artist in every genre of music, the majority of their fans describe their earlier work as better, more raw. This is so because (a) the artist is hungry and taking risks, (b) the music, no matter how good or bad, is novel, we've never heard it before,and that is exciting, and (c) we, the fans, are young ourselves. Prince's early music is tied to my youth, it is the soundtrack to me growing up and all the memories of it that I have at middle age (35). So, regardless of whether it is technically "better" (which is impossible to judge, since it's all opinion), it will always stir my emotions more than his later music, which I tend to respect but never get too excited about. Even with the slight nuances in Prince's music as of late, I still inevitably say "I've heard this before" when I hear his new music. It's not that I can't enjoy it, but it's hard to be passionate about. The only time an old artist really "wows" me is when they take a dramatic departure, a la the Rainbow Children. I didn't really like that album, but I was really exicted listening to it, because it was truly different. I think people who claim Plant Earth, 3121, and Musicology break any sort of new ground are postively crazy. Again, this is not to say that they are bad albums, but they are not new, raw, fresh albums, at least IMO. They're like average to great unused material that Prince threw together when he decided he wanted to be commercial again. I liked his point about artist like Bowie getting a "cool pass" and noting that in other genres, the age issue isn't such a big deal. Prince's big advanatage is his deft as a live performer, just like the Rolling Stones. While his albums are a little bit flat now, he's still kick-ass live and the live Prince experience is something that will never get old. At this point, album releases really just promote live gigs. | |
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Tuls101 said: Rodya24 said:
Getting a co-writing credit on a song means little to me. I see Janet Jackson and Beyonce getting a co-writing credit on almost all of their songs. Do I think these female recording artists are amazing musical talents? No. And did I write that she has nothing to do with her creations? No. But unlike you, I do not think much of her musical prowess. If it is as you write it is, she would have written and produced alone a number of her songs already. She would have written and produced alone for other artists as well. I'm not acting like she's John Lennon or Frank Zappa. But you act as if she is a producer's creation, that her success can all be attributed to her producers. That she has NO musical prowess and that's just not the case. The fact of the matter is that no matter who she works with or what style she incorporates into her music in the end it still sounds like a Madonna song. That is proof alone that she has some substantial musical prowess. Like that All Saints clip Midnightmover posted above...I think that song is shit, the production is great and YES it sounds like it could be on Ray Of Light. But there is no hook that keeps me wanting more.....that's the magic of a Madonna song. She's catchy as hell. That aspect of her music is NOT created by the producer, that is her. You obviously just don't have a good ear. If you mean it's not as mindlessly repetitive as a Madonna song then yeah, you've got a point, but it is actually a far better written song than most of what's on Ray Of Light. Here's another song Orbit did with All Saints. This was also a huge international hit. You can't get a much better chorus than this. http://www.youtube.com/wa...re=related “The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.”
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midnightmover said: Tuls101 said: I remember that song. Great production, but where is the hook?? Oh yes....Madonna wasn't there to provide that. BTW...what "signature" Michael songs were Jones or Temperton not involved in? The whole song is a hook. Listen to the melody and the drama the tune's got. This song is better than pretty much everything on Ray of Light. It's also worth mentioning that the biggest hits on Ray Of Light (the title track and "Frozen") were mostly written by others. And by the way, you said Jackson had only written four songs alone that you knew of. Right then you exposed yourself as an ignoramus. He wrote MOST of his signature songs alone. He also produced great tracks like "Stranger In Moscow", and "Who Is It?" by himself, as well as writing and producing a great track for Diana Ross called "Muscles". You really need to give up on these MJ comparisons. You are only digging yourself into an even deeper hole.
[Edited 2/11/08 14:05pm] When I think of signature MJ songs, Stranger in Moscow and Who Is It aren't what I have in mind. Billie Jean, Don't Stop Til You Get Enough, Thriller, Beat It etc etc. Those are the songs I'm speaking of and did he solely write and produce any of those? BTW I'm not the one who brought up MJ in the first place. | |
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midnightmover said: Tuls101 said: I'm not acting like she's John Lennon or Frank Zappa. But you act as if she is a producer's creation, that her success can all be attributed to her producers. That she has NO musical prowess and that's just not the case. The fact of the matter is that no matter who she works with or what style she incorporates into her music in the end it still sounds like a Madonna song. That is proof alone that she has some substantial musical prowess. Like that All Saints clip Midnightmover posted above...I think that song is shit, the production is great and YES it sounds like it could be on Ray Of Light. But there is no hook that keeps me wanting more.....that's the magic of a Madonna song. She's catchy as hell. That aspect of her music is NOT created by the producer, that is her. You obviously just don't have a good ear. If you mean it's not as mindlessly repetitive as a Madonna song then yeah, you've got a point, but it is actually a far better written song than most of what's on Ray Of Light. Here's another song Orbit did with All Saints. This was also a huge international hit. You can't get a much better chorus than this. http://www.youtube.com/wa...re=related So all of the great producers she's worked with have created mindlessly repetitive tracks for her, but great work for other artists? Yeah, those All Saints songs are so classic they failed to make impact on the biggest music market in the world. Again, neither one of those songs are nowhere near as catchy as Madonna's greatest singles. You think All Saints make better songs than Madonna and I'M the one with a bad ear...lol. Keep on.... | |
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Tuls101 said: midnightmover said: The whole song is a hook. Listen to the melody and the drama the tune's got. This song is better than pretty much everything on Ray of Light. It's also worth mentioning that the biggest hits on Ray Of Light (the title track and "Frozen") were mostly written by others. And by the way, you said Jackson had only written four songs alone that you knew of. Right then you exposed yourself as an ignoramus. He wrote MOST of his signature songs alone. He also produced great tracks like "Stranger In Moscow", and "Who Is It?" by himself, as well as writing and producing a great track for Diana Ross called "Muscles". You really need to give up on these MJ comparisons. You are only digging yourself into an even deeper hole.
[Edited 2/11/08 14:05pm] When I think of signature MJ songs, Stranger in Moscow and Who Is It aren't what I have in mind. Billie Jean, Don't Stop Til You Get Enough, Thriller, Beat It etc etc. Those are the songs I'm speaking of and did he solely write and produce any of those? BTW I'm not the one who brought up MJ in the first place. Perhaps I should rephrase my question: What signature Madonna songs aside from Lucky Star were written by her alone? I am curious. Those MJ songs you listed above were produced by Quincy Jones or co-produced with Michael Jackson. But with the exception of Thriller MJ wrote them himself. Again: what songs has Madonna written by herself? | |
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Rodya24 said: Tuls101 said: When I think of signature MJ songs, Stranger in Moscow and Who Is It aren't what I have in mind. Billie Jean, Don't Stop Til You Get Enough, Thriller, Beat It etc etc. Those are the songs I'm speaking of and did he solely write and produce any of those? BTW I'm not the one who brought up MJ in the first place. Perhaps I should rephrase my question: What signature Madonna songs aside from Lucky Star were written by her alone? I am curious. Those MJ songs you listed above were produced by Quincy Jones or co-produced with Michael Jackson. But with the exception of Thriller MJ wrote them himself. Again: what songs has Madonna written by herself? None. So that discredits her as an artist? | |
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Tuls101 said: Rodya24 said: Perhaps I should rephrase my question: What signature Madonna songs aside from Lucky Star were written by her alone? I am curious. Those MJ songs you listed above were produced by Quincy Jones or co-produced with Michael Jackson. But with the exception of Thriller MJ wrote them himself. Again: what songs has Madonna written by herself? None. So that discredits her as an artist? No. But it makes me question your assessment of her musical prowess. I respect her musical ear. I respect her for being opportunistic and working with producers who are both in the mainstream and underground. But I do not consider her a songwriter or producer, nor do I consider her a puppet. I think she is a good collaborator. | |
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Tuls101 said: midnightmover said: The whole song is a hook. Listen to the melody and the drama the tune's got. This song is better than pretty much everything on Ray of Light. It's also worth mentioning that the biggest hits on Ray Of Light (the title track and "Frozen") were mostly written by others. And by the way, you said Jackson had only written four songs alone that you knew of. Right then you exposed yourself as an ignoramus. He wrote MOST of his signature songs alone. He also produced great tracks like "Stranger In Moscow", and "Who Is It?" by himself, as well as writing and producing a great track for Diana Ross called "Muscles". You really need to give up on these MJ comparisons. You are only digging yourself into an even deeper hole.
[Edited 2/11/08 14:05pm] When I think of signature MJ songs, Stranger in Moscow and Who Is It aren't what I have in mind. Billie Jean, Don't Stop Til You Get Enough, Thriller, Beat It etc etc. Those are the songs I'm speaking of and did he solely write and produce any of those? BTW I'm not the one who brought up MJ in the first place. Well, you obviously don't know much about Michael Jackson if you didn't know that he at least wrote Billie Jean on his own as well as the others mentioned. I think some of his best songs were written by others but his most popular songs i.e. Billie Jean, Don't Stop and Beat It were written by him. | |
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Tuls101 said: midnightmover said: You obviously just don't have a good ear. If you mean it's not as mindlessly repetitive as a Madonna song then yeah, you've got a point, but it is actually a far better written song than most of what's on Ray Of Light. Here's another song Orbit did with All Saints. This was also a huge international hit. You can't get a much better chorus than this. http://www.youtube.com/wa...re=related So all of the great producers she's worked with have created mindlessly repetitive tracks for her, but great work for other artists? Yeah, those All Saints songs are so classic they failed to make impact on the biggest music market in the world. Again, neither one of those songs are nowhere near as catchy as Madonna's greatest singles. You think All Saints make better songs than Madonna and I'M the one with a bad ear...lol. Keep on.... What are you saying, that a song is no good if it's not a hit in America?  Have you heard the junk that clogs up the US charts. If that's your arbiter of taste then it's no wonder you're so confused.“The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.”
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whatsgoingon said: Tuls101 said: When I think of signature MJ songs, Stranger in Moscow and Who Is It aren't what I have in mind. Billie Jean, Don't Stop Til You Get Enough, Thriller, Beat It etc etc. Those are the songs I'm speaking of and did he solely write and produce any of those? BTW I'm not the one who brought up MJ in the first place. Well, you obviously don't know much about Michael Jackson if you didn't know that he at least wrote Billie Jean on his own as well as the others mentioned. I think some of his best songs were written by others but his most popular songs i.e. Billie Jean, Don't Stop and Beat It were written by him. It's very obvious Tuls101 knows NOTHING about MJ, and is making himself look ridiculous trying to salvage his already discredited argument. “The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.”
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Madonna has some of the greatest pop songs of the last 25 years.Fact. And those all saints songs couldnt even be album tracks on Ray Of Light.
And MJ is light years ahead [Edited 2/11/08 14:33pm] | |
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LightOfArt said: Madonna has some of the greatest pop songs of the last 25 years. And those all saints songs couldnt even be album tracks on Ray Of Light.
And MJ is light years ahead
[Edited 2/11/08 14:33pm] I suggest you listen again, because, uhhh, you're wrong. “The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.”
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LightOfArt said: Madonna has some of the greatest pop songs of the last 25 years.Fact. And those all saints songs couldnt even be album tracks on Ray Of Light.
And MJ is light years ahead
[Edited 2/11/08 14:33pm] Agree that MJ is light years ahead. Agree that Madonna has sung some of the greatest songs in popular music. Not sure about the All Saints comment. Some of the album tracks on Ray of Light sounded like shit to me. [Edited 2/11/08 14:36pm] | |
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Rodya24 said: Tuls101 said: None. So that discredits her as an artist? No. But it makes me question your assessment of her musical prowess. I respect her musical ear. I respect her for being opportunistic and working with producers who are both in the mainstream and underground. But I do not consider her a songwriter or producer, nor do I consider her a puppet. I think she is a good collaborator. OK..I can agree with that to an extent. Like I said, I'm not deluded and think that she's some genius songwriter and producer who without collaborators would be where she is today. But she is absolutely not given enough respect for the musical prowess that she has acquired over the years. Some dismiss even her "musical ear" as you put it and chalk up her success to the fact that she hires the right people, is controversial and is a great marketer. If that were the case, there would be many more "Madonna's" out there. The fact remains though, that very few have a catalogue of classics like hers or the longevity that she has had. | |
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midnightmover said: LightOfArt said: Madonna has some of the greatest pop songs of the last 25 years. And those all saints songs couldnt even be album tracks on Ray Of Light.
And MJ is light years ahead
[Edited 2/11/08 14:33pm] I suggest you listen again, because, uhhh, you're wrong. Ok they're alright but im still sticking to my guns | |
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Tuls101 said: Rodya24 said: No. But it makes me question your assessment of her musical prowess. I respect her musical ear. I respect her for being opportunistic and working with producers who are both in the mainstream and underground. But I do not consider her a songwriter or producer, nor do I consider her a puppet. I think she is a good collaborator. OK..I can agree with that to an extent. Like I said, I'm not deluded and think that she's some genius songwriter and producer who without collaborators would be where she is today. But she is absolutely not given enough respect for the musical prowess that she has acquired over the years. Some dismiss even her "musical ear" as you put it and chalk up her success to the fact that she hires the right people, is controversial and is a great marketer. If that were the case, there would be many more "Madonna's" out there. The fact remains though, that very few have a catalogue of classics like hers or the longevity that she has had. Exactly. There is a reason she delivered the goods through Madonna-Ray Of Light | |
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midnightmover said: Tuls101 said: So all of the great producers she's worked with have created mindlessly repetitive tracks for her, but great work for other artists? Yeah, those All Saints songs are so classic they failed to make impact on the biggest music market in the world. Again, neither one of those songs are nowhere near as catchy as Madonna's greatest singles. You think All Saints make better songs than Madonna and I'M the one with a bad ear...lol. Keep on.... What are you saying, that a song is no good if it's not a hit in America? Have you heard the junk that clogs up the US charts. If that's your arbiter of taste then it's no wonder you're so confused.That's not what I'm saying at all. The songs that clog our charts but don't do anything in the rest of the world are just the same. I'm saying a true classic pop song touches people EVERYWHERE and Madonna has had TONS of them. | |
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midnightmover said: whatsgoingon said: Well, you obviously don't know much about Michael Jackson if you didn't know that he at least wrote Billie Jean on his own as well as the others mentioned. I think some of his best songs were written by others but his most popular songs i.e. Billie Jean, Don't Stop and Beat It were written by him. It's very obvious Tuls101 knows NOTHING about MJ, and is making himself look ridiculous trying to salvage his already discredited argument. I know enough about MJ to know that he hasn't solely written and produced any of his signature songs. A real diehard music purist may dismiss his talent due to that fact, just the way some do with Madonna because she hasn't solely written or produced any of her songs. | |
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Tuls101 said: midnightmover said: What are you saying, that a song is no good if it's not a hit in America? Have you heard the junk that clogs up the US charts. If that's your arbiter of taste then it's no wonder you're so confused.That's not what I'm saying at all. The songs that clog our charts but don't do anything in the rest of the world are just the same. I'm saying a true classic pop song touches people EVERYWHERE and Madonna has had TONS of them. What does that mean? You mean if it's not a hit in every territory then it can't be any good? Please tell me you are joking. “The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.”
- Thomas Jefferson | |
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