Graycap23 said:

I disagree.I don't think Madonna gets "a pass" at all.She's gotten her share of criticism throughtout the years.In the early 90s,she got slaughtered by the media for things like 'Sex' book and movies like 'Body Of Evidence'.However,I think she (rightfully) gets alot of respect for her ability to bounce back,re-invent herself and keep herself relevent.She has handled her career much more effectively than most of her peers,including Prince and Michael Jackson.

midnightmover said:

The ironic thing is her views of female empowerment are questionable. What has she done for the feminist movement?

SoulAlive said:

For the last 10 years there has largely been a code of silence among critics and commentators in general on the subject of Madonna's crapness. This was made most clear in 2003 when not a single critic slammed her for her HIDEOUS and APPALLING attempt to rap on "American Life". In dozens of reviews no-one made even a passing mention of how bad it was. There is no other artist who would have been let off so lightly. That's one example of why this article described her as "the beneficiary of a cowed and indulgent press".

midnightmover said:

that's a lie

her attempts at English self-depriciation (the rap about "yoga and pilates" on 'American Life', the question on 'Hollywood' - "how could it hurt you when it looked so good?") and self-analysis (another rap on 'Mother & Father' - "my father used to go to work/I used to think he was a jerk") just come across as gauche
http://www.nme.com/reviews/madonna/7079

We will one day put her "rapping" behind us, dear reader, we will.
http://www.villagevoice.c...71,22.html

Timmy84 said:

Exactly, though we may all find grains of relevance in this article, AGE has nothing to do with it and never has. I dont buy into that crap that you create your best work in your 20's, everyone that has hung around has had greatness and shit moments at all ages. A band like U2 is making stronger records now than they did early on, the problem is that the listener cant accept getting older and GET OVER THE NOSTALGIA. John Mellecamp has been making amazing records since 1985, he was already 35 when he started making his best work. Sure some have shit records in the middle of their careers, many of McCartneys solo records, but his records since 1997 have been his best yet, and hes pushing his mid 60's now.

So i dont buy into young is when you create your best work. How come this rule doesnt apply to actors, the greatest actors like Denzel,Hanks,Williams etc...made the shittiest movies when they were young, im talking SHIT! So this age philosphy doesnt hold water at all, because i can poke so many holes in it.
[Edited 2/7/08 13:21pm]

HamsterHuey said:

I quite like Off the Wall, but Thriller is pretty overblown in my opinion.

My ears hear 4 great songs:

Beat It
Billie Jean
Human Nature
Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'

1 good song:

P.Y.T.

2 decent songs:

Thriller
Baby Be Mine

1 bad song:

The Lady in My Life

1 horrific song:

The Girl Is Mine

I WONDER why?

SoulAlive said:

For the last 10 years there has largely been a code of silence among critics and commentators in general on the subject of Madonna's crapness. This was made most clear in 2003 when not a single critic slammed her for her HIDEOUS and APPALLING attempt to rap on "American Life". In dozens of reviews no-one made even a passing mention of how bad it was. There is no other artist who would have been let off so lightly. That's one example of why this article described her as "the beneficiary of a cowed and indulgent press".

Graycap23 said:

I say and I say again, you and I KNOW why.

I'm ITCHING to post this article... lemme go put that in P&R

Bullshit.I recall many negative reviews of the 'American Life' album.Go back and google Rolling Stone magazine's review of that album.They trashed the album,including the rap.Contrary to what you may think,Madonna is not some pampered princess who can do what she want and not get criticized for it.Were you even around in the early 90s,when she was getting dogged left and right for her sexual views? Did you even read the reviews of the 'Sex' book? She suffered a huge media backlash in 1993.But being the smart artist that she is,she was able to bounce back and put the focus back on the music ('Bedtime Stories') and then turning her attention to respectable projects like 'Evita' and 'Ray Of Light'.But if she fucks up,you can bet that she will get her share of criticism.Lately,she's been doing everything right (career-wise).

At 50, these 3 muthafuckas can still make better music than these so called stars of today

SoulAlive said:

It says a lot that you have to cast your mind back to 1993 to remember the last time she was seriously brought to account. Even then it was on moral grounds, not musical grounds. Your explanation of why her crapness has been overlooked since then is that "lately she's been doing everything right". What you're basically saying is that she's handled her career well, which is irrelevant to this discussion. We all know she's handled her career well (although this shit-hop album looks like a disaster in the making if you ask me ). The point is that her music sucks. This is overlooked. Bitch cannot sing. This is overlooked. Bitch dances like a robotic dork. This is overlooked. Bitch is fake as hell and shows no signs of having a soul. This is overlooked. I wouldn't expect you to know this because you are lost in the sea of your adoration.

Take a look at that performance I posted above. What you see right there is an amateur. Someone who has no business being in music. People have been torn to pieces on American Idol for much better performances than that. That performance is from a British chat show devoted entirely to the vampire herself. It mixed an interview with 3 performances. Here are the other two dreadful performances.

http://www.youtube.com/wa...c9odeJfqSM

http://www.youtube.com/wa...S3FJg4ov94


Now as you probably know, the British press are notorious for ripping people to shreds at every opportunity, so I read a few reviews the next day expecting to see some real claws, and what did I find? Polite, mildly negative reviews which criticised the host for a boring interview. Not one mention of these scandalously bad karaoke performances (or even her lack of charisma in the interview). I've seen other artists mercilessly pilaried for far less. Like the writer said, the media has been cowed by her longevity, but that longevity has nothing to do with talent.
[Edited 2/11/08 7:37am]

midnightmover said:

That was awful. Those two performances demonstrate everything I dislike about Madonna. Why is she wearing a beret reminiscent of Che Guevara and other freedom fighters? That is an insult to their struggle. Does she even understand how hypocritical it is for her to wear something that represents a socialist struggle? Does she even understand what socialism is?

The griding she does on stage (grind, twist legs, go down onto the ground) -- YUCK.

Her singing -- YUCK.

I love some of her music from the 1980s, but damn. Her live performances....

Graycap23 said:

The writer already pinpointed it, and I've made the same points myself elsewhere. It's because she's been around so long. Also because she's seen as a symbol of female empowerment, so to point out how awful she is means you must be anti-feminist. Total bullshit of course, but remember, the media is run by pussies and sheep. They generally diss people only when a collective decision has been made.

The thing people forget when dissing Madonna is that she's created some of the most catchy, unforgettable pop songs of the past 25 years. She is unrivaled as a POP artist. No artist has had her hit streak. Dying your hair every other week, being sassy and sexy can only get you so far. The fact of the matter is, if the music was never any good nobody would care about her for this long. If the music wasn't good she would've been done in 1986 when she changed her image for the first time.Dismissing her as a "cabaret" act is just insulting to her as a musician. There has always been talk of Madonna can't sing, she doesn't have any real skills as a musician. As far as singing, that's a matter of opinion. I find her voice much more appealing than a wailing diva who is singing "soul" but really is just saying "look what I can do with my voice". Where is the soul in that? There is a reason that 9 times out of 10 whatever producer she works with, when they hook up with her, it ends up being their best work. There is one common denominator in those equations and that is HER. She writes hooks and melodies that stick in your head like no other. That's what a pop artist is supposed to do and nobody does/has done it like her. Anybody who isn't a fan of Madonna probably isn't a fan of pop music. So go listen to 30 year Funkadelic records for the rest of your life and dwell about the good old days and talk about how unless there is funk in it it's NOT real music...that's the mentality on this board a lot times.

Tuls101 said:

Hi Madonna.

The thing people forget when dissing Madonna is that she's created some of the most catchy, unforgettable pop songs of the past 25 years. She is unrivaled as a POP artist. No artist has had her hit streak. Dying your hair every other week, being sassy and sexy can only get you so far. The fact of the matter is, if the music was never any good nobody would care about her for this long. If the music wasn't good she would've been done in 1986 when she changed her image for the first time.Dismissing her as a "cabaret" act is just insulting to her as a musician. There has always been talk of Madonna can't sing, she doesn't have any real skills as a musician. As far as singing, that's a matter of opinion. I find her voice much more appealing than a wailing diva who is singing "soul" but really is just saying "look what I can do with my voice". Where is the soul in that? There is a reason that 9 times out of 10 whatever producer she works with, when they hook up with her, it ends up being their best work. There is one common denominator in those equations and that is HER. She writes hooks and melodies that stick in your head like no other. That's what a pop artist is supposed to do and nobody does/has done it like her. Anybody who isn't a fan of Madonna probably isn't a fan of pop music. So go listen to 30 year Funkadelic records for the rest of your life and dwell about the good old days and talk about how unless there is funk in it it's NOT real music...that's the mentality on this board a lot times.

Tuls101 said:

Hi Madonna.

Tuls101 said:

Hi Madonna.

Tuls101 said:

I totally agree. I think a lot of the hostility toward Madonna that I hear is not really about her music, but because some people don't like her as a person.
Some people have this idea she is a cold unfeeling person because she is so professional and organized.
She's not the type to get on tv and cry about all her problems. She deals with her issues more privately.
Some people like artists that they can feel sorry for. Who can feel sorry for Madonna?
She has herself together.

I wish had the talent to write some of the most memorable pop hooks and melodies in the history of popular music like she has done for a quarter of a century!! Don't you wish you had that talent??

The thing people forget when dissing Madonna is that she's created some of the most catchy, unforgettable pop songs of the past 25 years. She is unrivaled as a POP artist. No artist has had her hit streak. Dying your hair every other week, being sassy and sexy can only get you so far. The fact of the matter is, if the music was never any good nobody would care about her for this long. If the music wasn't good she would've been done in 1986 when she changed her image for the first time.Dismissing her as a "cabaret" act is just insulting to her as a musician. There has always been talk of Madonna can't sing, she doesn't have any real skills as a musician. As far as singing, that's a matter of opinion. I find her voice much more appealing than a wailing diva who is singing "soul" but really is just saying "look what I can do with my voice". Where is the soul in that? There is a reason that 9 times out of 10 whatever producer she works with, when they hook up with her, it ends up being their best work. There is one common denominator in those equations and that is HER. She writes hooks and melodies that stick in your head like no other. That's what a pop artist is supposed to do and nobody does/has done it like her. Anybody who isn't a fan of Madonna probably isn't a fan of pop music. So go listen to 30 year Funkadelic records for the rest of your life and dwell about the good old days and talk about how unless there is funk in it it's NOT real music...that's the mentality on this board a lot times.

Tuls101 said:

I totally agree. I think a lot of the hostility toward Madonna that I hear is not really about her music, but because some people don't like her as a person.
Some people have this idea she is a cold unfeeling person because she is so professional and organized.
She's not the type to get on tv and cry about all her problems. She deals with her issues more privately.
Some people like artists that they can feel sorry for. Who can feel sorry for Madonna?
She has herself together.

You can't be serious

http://prince.org/msg/105/260881

Dance said:

So you are denying that Madonna writes catchy as fuck pop songs??

http://prince.org/msg/105/260881

Tuls101 said:

If she is so talented, I would love to see her write and producer her songs ALONE. With the exception of LUCKY STAR and a couple of songs that are not her signature songs, what has she written and produced alone? Even Michael Jackson, whose partnership with QUINCY JONES, TEDDY RILEY, and RODNEY JERKINS is well-known, has written and produced a number of his best songs alone.
[Edited 2/11/08 11:45am]

Glindathegood said:

Exactly. Since she wasn't a "born musician" ala Prince and MJ people dismiss her talent. No she can't play 30 instruments like Prince, no she isn't as "funky" as Michael WAS so therefore she's not taken seriously. No she can't belt like Aretha so therefore she's nothing. You're right the fact that she's pretty much stayed on top all these years with what some consider "minimal raw talent" IRRITATES the fuck out of music purists. So they completely overlook her actual talent and try to pass her off as someone who has only stayed around successfully because of media antics, business smarts and because she is/was cute. Truth is, all of those things have helped her and in some cases hurt her but without the musical foundation none of it would matter.