sosgemini said:

It's a delusion that Gladys Knight is a better singer than Hilary Clinton? Yep, cart me off to the funny farm, I'm clearly nuts. Oh, wait a minute. Who's to say I'm nuts? It's all subjective.

midnightmover said:

wtf

DANNII MINOGUE INTERLUDE:

horatio said:

Can I help you? You seem confused.

Yeah, they really are. Especially with the British music press. The fucking nerver of UNCUT to call them "America's Last Great Rock Band".

They were alright for their time, but they ain't no fucking Beatles to me. I just think they're legends because of their short lifespan. But I don't see how they're revolutionaries when their music isn't that diverse or corlorful. They even ripped off bands like The Pixies and Killing Joe to make their hits. And yet they're hailed as geniuses for it?

midnightmover said:

midnightmover said:

I think sometimes they get hated because they are so associated with grunge, mosh pits, drugs, flannel, distortion, screaming, etc...

It was so trendy in the 90's you could almost look at them as the Justin Timberlakes or 50 Cents of their era. Every rock station switched to "alternative."

But the reason they're so highly regarded wasn't just that they were so trendsetting, it's because the songs were so good. Of course that's just my opinion.

NWF said:

No doubt Pixies are great and Nirvana acknowledged that they would be nailed for copying them but Frank Black himself doesn't think he ripped them off. They took something from them and made it their own, Nirvana did the same with Sonic Youth, the same as Prince does with James Brown or Sly or Brahms did with Beethhoven

NWF said:

Even Dave Grohl said "Smells Like Teen Spirit" was "a blatant Pixies rip off". Those were his exact words, yet when did you last see the Pixies make the "all time best" lists? Dare I suggest it's 'cos their lead singer was a fat bastard and not as photogenic as dear old Kirt?

horatio said:

Is that on your MySpace page?

mynameisnotsusan said:

and when you listen to Sonic Youth it doesn't have the same appeal as Nirvana. Maybe Nirvana just sold out, but whatever it was their songs grab you unlike the songs of some of their influences (Meat Puppets are another example).

midnightmover said:

you must like

MikeMatronik said:

Oh my god, I'm in love!

mynameisnotsusan said:

You be the judge: Listen to "Debaser" then listen to "Smells Like Teen Spirit". See the similarities? And they're being lablelled geniuses for this. That's what I don't like.

What reall ticked me off though is that Kurt was voted in one of those guitar magazines top 10 guitar heroes. What the hell is that about? Kurt banged out power chords and he's rated as a guitar innovator? And then Rolling Stone had the nerve to put Kurt over the likes of Frank Zappa and Jack White in their top 100 guitarists list.

NDRU said:

which is kinda funny because many use this argument in support of prince's genius.

NWF said:

Exactly. I'd like to see a single Nirvana fan defend that with a straight face. O-V-E-R-R-A-T-E-D. Plain and simple.

NWF said:

Sorry to sink a lot of ships on here, but the Pixies aren't that good. They're okay, but Nirvana borrowed some of their sound but paired it with accessible songs. That's the key to Nirvana. Accessible. The songs, the sound, Kurt's guitar style (he was my first influence as a guitarist because I could actually play the songs, as opposed to Van Halen or Slash or someone like that. And if you think he wasn't a good guitarist, you should check out the solos on "Serve The Servants"and "In Bloom," among others) Media magazines and articles tend to exaggerate, and just because they exaggerate doesn't mean the artist would agree with the hyberboles, in fact, probably the contrary most of the time. I doubt Kurt saw what he was doing as innovative. He was just doing what he wanted to do, why slag him for that?

Yeah, Kurt's death helped the band's profile, but the same is true of Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin, etc. And the fact is, if these artists weren't talented in some way to begin with, no one would care that they were dead. Nirvana's music meant a lot to a lot of people (myself included) at one time, I'd dare say they were my generation's Beatles.

PurpleKnight said:

has one post talked about his suicide?

midnightmover said:

Well, Krist, the bass player said the same thing, but he qualified it. They were recording the backing tracks, and he was saying "eh, it's okay, kind of a Pixies ripoff," but he said he came back to listen after the vocals had been added and thought "my god this rocks!"

So yes Nirvana took elements from other bands, but they added something that made it even more special. I guess Kurt was decent looking, but it was hard to see through the hair & smoke, I think it was the music that people liked.

NWF said:

Uh, I already have judged them. I really love them both and I accept them as different related animals. They are probably my 2 favourite bands of the last 20 years.

You are giving too much credence to these largely bogus critical lists but bad news for you guys is Nirvana isn't gonna disappear from them anytime. I mean it's been more than 10 years now and they ain't going away.

NWF said:

Well, that's just silly, of course! Yes Nirvana is overrated, but RS's idiocy doesn't mean they suck!

NDRU said:

I knew girls at the time who swooned over him. Even straight guys can be swayed by a man's appearance on some level. Btw, I'm not dissing Nirvana, I'm merely pointing out that they are not all they're cracked up to be. Is "Smells Like Teen Spirit" really a better song than REM's "Losing My Religion"? If you think it is, do you think the gap in quality is so huge to justify it's far greater reputation? Does anyone seriously believe this band would be viewed the same if Kirt was still alive? People say they liked them at the time, but people liked Paula Abdul at the time too. It doesn't mean they still feel the same way now. However, if she'd died in 1992 you can bet they'd still be praising her today.

midnightmover said:

I agreed with you right up until the Paula Abdul comparison

midnightmover said:

*attempts holding a straight face*

Well gee, how many songs have they written that have c-h-a-n-g-e-d music? "Smells Like" "Come As You Are" and "Lithium" are standards for Guitar Playing 101. You can hear the influence of Kurt's guitar sound everywhere, just not as brilliant at creating memorable melodies. Their music is full of hooks and not just Kurt, Krist's bass lines were very cool and they had the perfect drummer for that band.

He didn't go widdly, diddly, diddly but everyone wants that sound or play like they want that sound.

*ok didn't quite work*

Frank Zappa was an awesome musician and Jack White is cool but fuck he's not that far away from Kurts playing

NDRU said:

Yeah, I get what he's saying, but comparing Nirvana to Paula Abdul and a singing Hillary Clinton is too funny.

mynameisnotsusan said:

Yeah Kurt didn't play like Jimi, there's no way you can say he's better than Frank Zappa certainly, but he wrote guitar licks that millions of guitar students are forcing their teachers to teach them. That counts for something.

George Harrison wasn't the greatest, either, but Ticket To Ride & Something are classic guitar lines. So are Heart Shaped Box, All Apologies & Come As You Are.

And you're right, he's really not so different from Jack White.
[Edited 1/8/08 12:22pm]

NDRU said:

That was a leftover thought from the Aaliyah thread. .But the point remains the same. Many of the Nirvana fans would inevitably have moved on and put them to one side if Kirt was still alive. Critics would have done the same. And I'm afraid to say if Paula had died in 1992, while she obviously wouldn't be getting Nirvana levels of acclaim she would be getting a lot of love on the web from old fans who wouldn't know that in a parallel universe where Paula lived on, they totally disregarded her.

midnightmover said:

Yeah I don't deny that his death helped make him a legend, same as the Beatles breakup preserved their legend (not to mention John's death).

At the time I knew plenty of people who preferred Pearl Jam, Smashing Pumpkins, even STP. Maybe if Nirvana was still around they'd have released several terrible albums by now, and they'd be has beens, who knows?

I actually agree they're really overrated. But even so, the few albums they did became some of my all time favorites, and the other bands' albums didn't.

sextonseven said:

You've been drinking from the same fountain as Horatio, haven't you? Just to help you guys out, I never compared Nirvana to Hilary Clinton. I asked who was a better singer out of Hilary and Gladys Knight. The reason I did that was to expose the foolishness of the idea that "everything is subjective". The moment you compare the vocal ability of those two, it becomes obvious that one is better than the other, and that's not just an opinion. It's an objective fact. It's fashionable nowadays to say that there is no such thing as an objective fact. My Gladys/Hilary comparison proves that there is.