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Reply #90 posted 12/13/07 8:36am

Harlepolis

Its pretty ironic how people remember Miles Davis, Marvin Gaye, Jimi Hendrix, John Lennon and James Brown as geniuses while Ike Turner is going to be remembered as a "woman beater", even though ALL of them are guilty of the same charge.

BTW both Tina and Ike denied the rape thing/Ritz confrontation. In fact, both said that they haven't met after the divorce. Also, the "Jackie" character is a fantasy, the one who hid Tina from Ike, sheltered her and introduced her to buddhism is a European woman named Maria Booker.

Also, the movie shows that Tina got her 1st baby from Ike which in reality, she got it from one of his sax players. Not to mention, it drew this picture of the perfect mom who took all of her children in after she got divorces, NOT TRUE, Tina ran to Europe the minute her divorce was finalized and left all of her children to Ike - he was the one who took care of them in the aftermath. She herself admitted this.

The I, Tina book is more truthful and mind you, MORE intersting than the movie.

As for Ike's side of the story, he made a book about it.....



He admitted the abuse, and made no apology for it.
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Reply #91 posted 12/13/07 8:45am

Timmy84

Harlepolis said:

Its pretty ironic how people remember Miles Davis, Marvin Gaye, Jimi Hendrix, John Lennon and James Brown as geniuses while Ike Turner is going to be remembered as a "woman beater", even though ALL of them are guilty of the same charge.

BTW both Tina and Ike denied the rape thing/Ritz confrontation. In fact, both said that they haven't met after the divorce. Also, the "Jackie" character is a fantasy, the one who hid Tina from Ike, sheltered her and introduced her to buddhism is a European woman named Maria Booker.

Also, the movie shows that Tina got her 1st baby from Ike which in reality, she got it from one of his sax players. Not to mention, it drew this picture of the perfect mom who took all of her children in after she got divorces, NOT TRUE, Tina ran to Europe the minute her divorce was finalized and left all of her children to Ike - he was the one who took care of them in the aftermath. She herself admitted this.

The I, Tina book is more truthful and mind you, MORE intersting than the movie.

As for Ike's side of the story, he made a book about it.....



He admitted the abuse, and made no apology for it.


nod But I didn't know he DID admit to abusing Tina. And yeah, Tina herself said she wasn't no saint and she did things she regretted. I knew Ike was close to his kids. The difference as to why Ike was looked on badly is because unlike Marvin, James, John, Jimi, Miles and 'em, there wasn't a movie that had them out to be serial abusers as they did Ike.

People shouldn't try to make it seem like all Ike did was be the bass singer on "Proud Mary", his work speaks for itself and I regard him as a music legend. Very overlooked and underrated in those aspects. And Tina NEVER forgot the man who made her a star so in that sense, she'll always be grateful to him even if she despises him as a human being.
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Reply #92 posted 12/13/07 9:43am

MsLegs

Copycat said:





Musician Ike Turner dies at 76
Considered one of rock's critical architects
By Phil Gallo

Variety.com
12/12/07

Ike Turner, the blues musician who laid a cornerstone in rock 'n' roll but whose abusive and criminal behavior overshadowed his musical accomplishments, died Wednesday at his San Marcos, Calif., home outside San Diego. He was 76.

His manager, Scott M. Hanover of Thrill Entertainment Group, confirmed his death. No cause was given.

Turner had spent much of the past decade working on the rehabilitation of his image in the wake of the film adaptation of Tina Turner's "What's Love Got to Do With It?" biography, which presented him as a drug-crazed demon and wife-beater. Extensive touring, participation in events recognizing his contributions to blues and rock 'n' roll and, earlier this year, a Grammy award had begun to revert focus back to his musicianship.

"You can go ask Snoop Dogg or Eminem, you can ask the Rolling Stones or (Eric) Clapton, or you can ask anybody -- anybody, they all know my contribution to music, but it hasn't been in print about what I've done or what I've contributed until now," he told the Associated Press in 2001.

His career began at the age of 11 in the late 1940s, backing Sony Boy Williamson on piano. He formed, in high school, the Kings of Rhythm and backed Jackie Brenston on "Rocket 88," often considered the first rock 'n' roll record. A producer, songwriter and session pianist and guitarist, Turner kept his name off recordings until 1960, when he formed the Ike & Tina Turner Revue with his wife, the former Anna Mae Bullock.

He was 19 when he wrote "Rocket 88" specifically for a recording session for Sam Phillips at his Sun Studios in Memphis. B.B. King introduced Turner to Phillips, but Turner did not have a song penned. He got the idea for the tune while driving in the car -- an Oldsmobile Rocket 88 -- with the band's gear piled inside and on top of the vehicle. The track was recorded in March 1951, but Chess Records issued the single with the wrong label credit, giving it to Brenston, the lead singer, and the Delta Cats.Born Izear Luster Turner and raised in Clarksdale, Miss., Turner worked the black clubs of West Memphis, Tenn., until he moved to East St. Louis, Ill., in the mid-1950s. In Memphis he recorded with King, Elmore James, Buddy Guy, Howlin' Wolf and Little Milton; he was also a talent scout for labels on the West Coast.

Turner often talked about the number of rock 'n' rollers who learned from him, saying that Elvis Presley had sat next to the piano in those Memphis clubs, that Janis Joplin sought him out for vocal coaching and that the Rolling Stones based their stage act on Ike & Tina. One verifiable fact: Turner was one of Jimi Hendrix's first musical employers.

In St. Louis, his Kings of Rhythm became a popular club act. Bullock and her sister were regulars at one of the clubs he played, and she had asked whether she could sing with the band. Tired of never being asked to take the stage, she grabbed a microphone that had been offered to her sister and started singing. Soon she was in the band. In 1956, pregnant with the saxophonist's child, she moved in with Ike. They were married in 1958.

At a session in 1960, with her name changed to Tina, Bullock stepped in for a singer who had failed to appear. They recorded "A Fool in Love," which would hit No. 2 on the R&B singles chart and launch the duo's career; Ike & Tina had 17 top 40 R&B hit singles between 1960 and 1975.

With a hit single, Turner created an expanded Ike & Tina Revue with nine musicians, three scantily clad female singers named the Ikettes and Tina as the frenetic sexually charged frontwoman. They became one of the most popular live soul acts, especially in the U.K.

During a show at a Los Angeles club, producer Phil Spector became enamored with Tina and thought he had a perfect song for her. Ike & Tina's recording career -- mostly singles -- had stalled by then, and the chance to record with a man who had a golden touch seemed ideal. Spector paid Ike $20,000 to put Tina under a production deal to record "River Deep Mountain High"; the caveat was that Ike would not be allowed in the studio.

The backing track alone cost $22,000 to produce, and Spector hailed the single as his masterpiece. It hit No. 3 in England, but in the U.S. it bombed so badly -- No. 88 on the pop chart -- that Spector shut down his Philles label and did not make another record for three years.

Ike & Tina continued to record for a variety of labels, adding more covers to their repertoire and performing for rock rather than R&B auds. They supported the Rolling Stones on their 1969 tour and in 1970 appeared on "The Ed Sullivan Show," "The Smothers Brothers Comedy Hour" and "The Andy Williams Show." In March 1971, they hit their chart high point with John Fogerty's "Proud Mary," reaching No. 5 R&B/No. 4 pop.

After Tina left him in 1974, Ike Turner went into semi-retirement, staying close to his Inglewood, Calif., home and studio, where he rigged phone lines to make long distance calls without paying, a crime for which he would later be charged. He made a couple of solo albums before a fire destroyed his studio in 1982.

In 1986, "I, Tina" was published. In it Ike was portrayed as a cocaine addict, alcoholic and violent man who subjected Tina to near-constant abuse during their 18-year marriage. Turner was convicted in 1989 on drug charges and sentenced to four years in prison, serving 17 months. He was locked up when he and Tina were inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in 1991.

Turner signed away all of his rights to the filmmakers turning Tina's autobiography into the 1993 film "What's Love Got to Do With It." Upset with the depiction, Turner began attempting to clear his name about a decade ago. His biography "Takin' Back My Name" was published in 1999 but suffered from distribution problems that Turner thought were caused by a connection between the publisher and Virgin Records, which issued Tina's albums.

Turner returned to music by touring with Joe Louis Walker before recording "Here and Now" in 2001 and receiving a year later the W.C. Handy Award for comeback album of the year.

He participated in celebrations that marked Memphis musical history and the history of the blues. A 2001 duet between Turner and Chicago blues legend Pinetop Perkins was part of Martin Scorsese's series of blues films; earlier this year he won his second Grammy, this time for traditional blues album. His first was for R&B vocal performance for "Proud Mary." The Recording Academy presented him with a Heroes Award in 2004.

He is survived by four children from four marriages.

What's highlighted is a tidbit that I mentioned earlier in this thread.
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Reply #93 posted 12/13/07 9:44am

smoothoperator

Harlepolis said:


Not to mention, it drew this picture of the perfect mom who took all of her children in after she got divorces, NOT TRUE, Tina ran to Europe the minute her divorce was finalized and left all of her children to Ike - he was the one who took care of them in the aftermath. She herself admitted this.


I didn't know that. I always thought that she did take care of all the kids and that made me appreciate her as a human being even more. Guess there were a lot of factual inaccuracies in the movie.
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Reply #94 posted 12/13/07 9:49am

Timmy84

Wow, that's interesting with how Ike came up with that legendary song. And only 19 years old at that! Impressive. He was a child prodigy too.
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Reply #95 posted 12/13/07 9:50am

Timmy84

smoothoperator said:

Harlepolis said:


Not to mention, it drew this picture of the perfect mom who took all of her children in after she got divorces, NOT TRUE, Tina ran to Europe the minute her divorce was finalized and left all of her children to Ike - he was the one who took care of them in the aftermath. She herself admitted this.


I didn't know that. I always thought that she did take care of all the kids and that made me appreciate her as a human being even more. Guess there were a lot of factual inaccuracies in the movie.


Yeah, she left for Europe sometime around 1980. She had before then tried taking care of Ike's kids as a maid in L.A. for a short time but after she met Roger Davies, she allowed Ike to look after them. Craig Turner, Tina's eldest child, was her child with Ike's saxophonist. After they "married" in 1962, Craig Hill became Craig Turner. He's kept the name since.

Ike & Tina do have one son together - Ronnie, 47.
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Reply #96 posted 12/13/07 10:11am

Tuls101

Wonderful, ground breaking musician.

Miserable, worthless, VILE human being.

Still hopes he rests in peace!
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Reply #97 posted 12/13/07 10:49am

Graycap23

Tuls101 said:



Miserable, worthless, VILE human being.

Still hopes he rests in peace!

U guys act as if u knew the man. I can tell that u did NOT.
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Reply #98 posted 12/13/07 10:50am

Scorpion

Timmy84 said:

uPtoWnNY said:



Yeah, he said that on the Stern show when the movie first came out, claiming it make him look bad and didn't tell the whole story.


I often thought that something was amiss there. True, Ike did have a violent streak but even him and Tina both said some things in the movie wasn't accurate like the rape scene during the recording of "Nutbush City Limits" was totally fabricated. And Ike never confronted Tina with a gun before a Ritz show either. But that's Hollywood for you.


Yea, I read the book and some scenes were taken out of context for the movie. Like that scene where she had to be transported to the hospital & Ike whispers "If you don't make it - bitch I'll kill ya". Tina wrote that as a joke between her and one of her friends about something Ike probably would say. They did fabricate some stuff. But they didn't depict half of the stories Tina recounted in her autobiography.
tho' I battled blind
love is a fate resigned
memories mar my mind
love it is a fate resigned

Over futile odds
and laughed at by the Gods
and now the final frame
Love is a losing game
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Reply #99 posted 12/13/07 10:58am

Timmy84

Scorpion said:

Timmy84 said:



I often thought that something was amiss there. True, Ike did have a violent streak but even him and Tina both said some things in the movie wasn't accurate like the rape scene during the recording of "Nutbush City Limits" was totally fabricated. And Ike never confronted Tina with a gun before a Ritz show either. But that's Hollywood for you.


Yea, I read the book and some scenes were taken out of context for the movie. Like that scene where she had to be transported to the hospital & Ike whispers "If you don't make it - bitch I'll kill ya". Tina wrote that as a joke between her and one of her friends about something Ike probably would say. They did fabricate some stuff. But they didn't depict half of the stories Tina recounted in her autobiography.


Also the timeline was way fucking off. Tina swallowed pills and had to be rushed in the hospital but it was in 1968. The fucking film had it in 1974! falloff
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Reply #100 posted 12/13/07 10:59am

Tuls101

Graycap23 said:

Tuls101 said:



Miserable, worthless, VILE human being.

Still hopes he rests in peace!

U guys act as if u knew the man. I can tell that u did NOT.


Did you know him personally?

I know I'll take Tina's word over his. Never trust a crack head and HE HIMSELF admitted that he was a drug addict. I'm sorry, I have no sympathy for people who abuse women. If Tina Turner were your mother, would you have so much sympathy for him as a human being??

That doesn't take away his genius as a musician and his influence on music as a whole. But a good, decent, calm man he was not!

I hope he finds the peace in death that he obviously didn't find in life....until maybe the very end anyways.
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Reply #101 posted 12/13/07 11:10am

Graycap23

Tuls101 said:[quote]

Graycap23 said:


U guys act as if u knew the man. I can tell that u did NOT.


Did you know him personally?

[quote]

14 years.....
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Reply #102 posted 12/13/07 11:20am

Tuls101

Graycap23 said:[quote]Tuls101 said:[quote]

Graycap23 said:


U guys act as if u knew the man. I can tell that u did NOT.


Did you know him personally?



14 years.....


I'm not saying he was a bad friend or even a bad father. But any man who abuses a woman is not an overall decent human being...I'm sorry. The fact that he never even acknowledged and apologized for what he did is very telling. Like I said, how would you feel if Tina were your mother or sister?
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Reply #103 posted 12/13/07 11:26am

MsLegs

Tuls101 said:

Gr. But any man who abuses a woman is not an overall decent human being...I'm sorry. The fact that he never even acknowledged and apologized for what he did is very telling. Like I said, how would you feel if Tina were your mother or sister?

nod Valid point & Well stated indeed. Physical or Mental Abuse in a relationship should not be taken likely. And the abuser actions ,regardless of his profession, does not deserve to be excused.
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Reply #104 posted 12/13/07 12:32pm

SexyBeautifulO
ne

I just heard this on the radio so I can't substantiate yet but apparently someone contacted Tina yesterday about the passing of Ike and her words were...

"I haven't thought about Ike in 35 years and I've got nothing else to say about Ike."

Ouch!!!
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Reply #105 posted 12/13/07 12:51pm

dammme

avatar

sad


pray



R.I.P
"Todo está bien chévere" Stevie
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Reply #106 posted 12/13/07 12:53pm

dammme

avatar

"People meet me and say, "Man, you're nothin' like what I thought you were. You're nothin' like that movie." But, man, that movie is not me. They had to have a villain. They assassinated my career with that damn movie, man".

http://www.esquire.com/fe...ER?src=rss
"Todo está bien chévere" Stevie
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Reply #107 posted 12/13/07 12:57pm

Graycap23

Tuls101 said:[quote]

Graycap23 said:



Did you know him personally?



14 years.....


I'm not saying he was a bad friend or even a bad father. But any man who abuses a woman is not an overall decent human being...I'm sorry. The fact that he never even acknowledged and apologized for what he did is very telling. Like I said, how would you feel if Tina were your mother or sister?

He had issues no doubt. There are 2 sides 2 a story though....believe that.
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Reply #108 posted 12/13/07 1:21pm

vainandy

avatar

http://news.yahoo.com/s/a...1213090353

However, the couple's marriage was tempestuous. In her 1986 autobiography, Tina Turner accused Ike of violent abuse spanning several years.

Ike Turner denied the allegations but later acknowledged in a 2001 book: "Sure, I've slapped Tina. There have been times when I punched her to the ground without thinking. But I never beat her."



falloff
Andy is a four letter word.
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Reply #109 posted 12/13/07 1:44pm

purplecam

avatar

In spite of his dealings with Tina Turner, may Ike Turner R.I.P. He is a music legend and for that, I will give him props.
I'm not a fan of "old Prince". I'm not a fan of "new Prince". I'm just a fan of Prince. Simple as that
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Reply #110 posted 12/13/07 1:55pm

Miles

vainandy said:

I did not know that he was originally from Clarksdale, Mississippi. No wonder he was such a hell raiser, he had that Mississippi blood in him. We can raise some pure D hell down here. lol


Oh yeah. When I learned that, it helped me understand Ike a little better. Coming from that place and time is no justification for anybody's misdeeds, but in learning, we understand smile.

He seems to have been a mean mutha at times, but imo he just had the bad luck of being reported more in that kind of arena than some other people. It's ironic. If a guy's a truck driver, you don't have to be seen as a paragon of virtue, but just because you play the guitar and piano pretty good and make a name for yourself, and you do bad stuff and get found out, you're the devil's son-in-law. There's guys as bad as Ike just down the road from most folks, but are we discussing them on the internet? Maybe the reason for that is that Ike, through his music, put back a little of what he took away ...

I'm making no excuses for Ike Turner's alleged misdeeds, or anybody else's here, and I don't like to judge people I never knew. Ike, like many others of his generation, lived a blues life in all senses of that phrase.

On a lighter note, if I'd been around back then, I'd have loved to have seen a prime Ike and Tina revue show. From what I've seen and heard, they were cookin'. A much under-rated act.

From a musical standpoint, for me Ike's stuff mops the floor with anything Tina did post-Ike. Musically, he was the real deal. His CV speaks for itself.
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Reply #111 posted 12/13/07 2:03pm

ThePunisher

vainandy said:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20071213/ts_alt_afp/entertainmentusmusicturner_071213090353

However, the couple's marriage was tempestuous. In her 1986 autobiography, Tina Turner accused Ike of violent abuse spanning several years.

Ike Turner denied the allegations but later acknowledged in a 2001 book: "Sure, I've slapped Tina. There have been times when I punched her to the ground without thinking. But I never beat her."



falloff
Oh Lord, Somebody should've asked Ike what he considers a Beating to be.
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Reply #112 posted 12/13/07 2:36pm

Scorpion

vainandy said:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20071213/ts_alt_afp/entertainmentusmusicturner_071213090353

However, the couple's marriage was tempestuous. In her 1986 autobiography, Tina Turner accused Ike of violent abuse spanning several years.

Ike Turner denied the allegations but later acknowledged in a 2001 book: "Sure, I've slapped Tina. There have been times when I punched her to the ground without thinking. But I never beat her."



falloff


WTF???? Ok Ike....RIP man.
tho' I battled blind
love is a fate resigned
memories mar my mind
love it is a fate resigned

Over futile odds
and laughed at by the Gods
and now the final frame
Love is a losing game
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Reply #113 posted 12/13/07 2:49pm

SupaFunkyOrgan
grinderSexy

avatar

It's interesting how some feel like we should only be discussing his musical legend status. That's like expecting people to only talk about Rick James' braids when he died lol
2010: Healing the Wounds of the Past.... http://prince.org/msg/8/325740
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Reply #114 posted 12/13/07 3:01pm

Harlepolis

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

That's like expecting people to only talk about Rick James' braids when he died lol


I shouldn't even be laughing since I'm one of those people you mentioned,,,,,but damn that was just WRONG and devilishly funny falloff falloff falloff falloff
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Reply #115 posted 12/13/07 3:04pm

Timmy84

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

It's interesting how some feel like we should only be discussing his musical legend status. That's like expecting people to only talk about Rick James' braids when he died lol


You's a fool! lol

Well we can see Tina ain't going to his funeral. She basically said "I ain't thought about him in 30 years." That was basically a fuck off, lol. She ain't Cher: "He'll always be Son for me cry " lol

My momma's like "Tina's got class". Hell I actually don't blame her.
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Reply #116 posted 12/13/07 3:04pm

KidaDynamite

avatar

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

It's interesting how some feel like we should only be discussing his musical legend status. That's like expecting people to only talk about Rick James' braids when he died lol


spit spit spit spit
surviving on the thought of loving you, it's just like the water
I ain't felt this way in years...
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Reply #117 posted 12/13/07 5:06pm

MsLegs

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

It's interesting how some feel like we should only be discussing his musical legend status. That's like expecting people to only talk about Rick James' braids when he died lol

Interesting analogy Supa.
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Reply #118 posted 12/14/07 1:13am

laurarichardso
n

whatsgoingon said:

JudasLChrist said:



Man am I glad to hear that! That was the worst part of that movie, the part that made me feel like like Ike was truly evil. I'm glad to hear that it was not true.


That part really disturbed me too. But if it weren't true why put such a scene in the movie in the first place? The abuse was bad enough without adding a fabricated scene like that.

Btw, who says it wasn't true; Ike people or Tina's people?

-----
Has anyone read the book"What's Love Got To Do With It" A lot of stuff in the book is not in the movie but, Tina has talked about being beaten and then forced to have sex with Ike.

You got to also take the word of other entertainers. Etta James talks about Ike and Tina in her book as well as Little Richard.
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Reply #119 posted 12/14/07 8:24am

chewwsey

laurarichardson said:

whatsgoingon said:



That part really disturbed me too. But if it weren't true why put such a scene in the movie in the first place? The abuse was bad enough without adding a fabricated scene like that.

Btw, who says it wasn't true; Ike people or Tina's people?

-----
Has anyone read the book"What's Love Got To Do With It" A lot of stuff in the book is not in the movie but, Tina has talked about being beaten and then forced to have sex with Ike.

You got to also take the word of other entertainers. Etta James talks about Ike and Tina in her book as well as Little Richard.



I believe she was damaged because I saw a tribute to tina from some black and white clips of her in the studio with the background singers and ike and she was
explaining something to ike and he flew off and hit her. she shrugged it off like it was normal but looked scared at the same time. the background singers looked a little shocked as well.

rest in pieces ike eek
nipsy
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