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midnightmover said: krayzie said: I think we can't compare Janet and Madonna in the first place. Madonna is white, Janet is black... Madonna will always appeal to a wider audience because she's white... And to be honest Janet has dominated Madonna in US since Rythm Nation until the titty scandal... Madonna is only bigger outside the US. This is much harder for black artists to sell records outside the US... Beside MJ, I think the only black artist who has some big appeal worldwide is Tina Turner... [Edited 9/17/07 14:17pm] Wooaaah, slow down a second, bro. I think you'll find there are tons of black artists selling massively outside the US. Hell, most of the biggest R&B stars like Beyonce and Usher are huge all over the world. 50 Cent is huge all over the world. In the 80s you had Whitney, Prince, TTD, Boby Brown, Tracy Chapman and a dozen others all selling millions. Janet's failure to match her US level in other countries has NOTHING to do with her colour. First of all I'm not your "bro". And all the artists you just name are NO WHERE near as popular as white artists... Never... |
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superspaceboy said: TotalAlisa said: here's my arguement mister... Madonna may be bigger then janet.. but does She deserve to be... NOooooo way.... was recognition way to much recognition given to madonna... YES... just because she is more popular.. or in the media doesn't make her a better artist or a in a higher league.... if you guys just compare and contrast their music and videos.. you will see their is a inequality between the artist... and its Not fair... I completely disagree. You're basing your opinions on how you perceive their music. Music aside, I think Madonna has done a lot more and has taken a lot more creative risks and pushed bounderies much more than Janet...and THAT is why Madonna will always be "Queen". Madonna is and always will be considered one of the hardest working women in the entertainment business. Another thing the Madonna has going for her that Janet does not is that Madonna started from SCRATCH and made herself into what she is today. Janets had a little more "help" in life and it shows. Okay! Madonna has enlisted the help of Timbaland and Timberlake. Yeah, I did say HELP! But, the media and others will look at it as she's helping them as oppose to them helping her eventhough they are working with her on HER lp. Risks! What risks has she taken either than making a sex book, trying to play the guitar, trying to um, act and doing electronica music. I mean, what risks is she taking, really? She samples like every other artist that's out! Oh! are you talking about when she was wearing those leotards in her video, CAUGHT UP or HUNG UP? Yeah! I definitely agree with you right there! If that wasn't taking a risk, I don't know what was!  | |
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superspaceboy said: TotalAlisa said: here's my arguement mister... Madonna may be bigger then janet.. but does She deserve to be... NOooooo way.... was recognition way to much recognition given to madonna... YES... just because she is more popular.. or in the media doesn't make her a better artist or a in a higher league.... if you guys just compare and contrast their music and videos.. you will see their is a inequality between the artist... and its Not fair... I completely disagree. You're basing your opinions on how you perceive their music. Music aside, I think Madonna has done a lot more and has taken a lot more creative risks and pushed bounderies much more than Janet...and THAT is why Madonna will always be "Queen". Madonna is and always will be considered one of the hardest working women in the entertainment business. Another thing the Madonna has going for her that Janet does not is that Madonna started from SCRATCH and made herself into what she is today. Janets had a little more "help" in life and it shows. Yeah, Janet got the hook up due to her last name. She got her record deal because of it, but that isn't why she kept her record deal. She signed that 80 million dollar contract due to hard ole' skool work and not because she's MJ's sister. Now, Madonna truly did start from scratch. She slept with whomever could hook her up from one phase to another. Now, this isn't cause I said so, but because it is so. | |
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I'll believe it hen I see it. The like of Will I.Am and other suggest this cd will be shite..... | |
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krayzie said: midnightmover said: Wooaaah, slow down a second, bro. I think you'll find there are tons of black artists selling massively outside the US. Hell, most of the biggest R&B stars like Beyonce and Usher are huge all over the world. 50 Cent is huge all over the world. In the 80s you had Whitney, Prince, TTD, Boby Brown, Tracy Chapman and a dozen others all selling millions. Janet's failure to match her US level in other countries has NOTHING to do with her colour. First of all I'm not your "bro". And all the artists you just name are NO WHERE near as popular as white artists... Never... I agree to a certain extent. One of the reasons why Michael Jackson will go down as a legend is that he was the first black global superstar who was able to match the commercial appeal of Elvis and The Beatles. I mean in East Asia, the embarrassing prevalence of racism STILL prevents other black artists to penetrate the markets to the same extent as white artists. But like midnightmover said there are black artists who are selling millions and touring. | |
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Graycap23 said: I'll believe it hen I see it. The like of Will I.Am and other suggest this cd will be shite.....
Well, seeing is alway believing due to folks constantly making up stuff. Some say he's delved into a new sound. That's what it's all about striving for what's new and perhaps even ground breaking. | |
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superspaceboy said: TotalAlisa said: here's my arguement mister... Madonna may be bigger then janet.. but does She deserve to be... NOooooo way.... was recognition way to much recognition given to madonna... YES... just because she is more popular.. or in the media doesn't make her a better artist or a in a higher league.... if you guys just compare and contrast their music and videos.. you will see their is a inequality between the artist... and its Not fair... I completely disagree. You're basing your opinions on how you perceive their music. Music aside, I think Madonna has done a lot more and has taken a lot more creative risks and pushed bounderies much more than Janet...and THAT is why Madonna will always be "Queen". Madonna is and always will be considered one of the hardest working women in the entertainment business. Another thing the Madonna has going for her that Janet does not is that Madonna started from SCRATCH and made herself into what she is today. Janets had a little more "help" in life and it shows. Again, again You are comparing two different artists... Madonna is white, Janet is black... Madonna could reach a MUCH bigger audience and take more risk easily... I don't see any black artist doing what Madonna has done with the same talent and having the SAME success... No way... Never... Madonna has had a MASSIVE support from the white audience since day one. If I can remember her first LPs sold atrocioulsy well like than 10 millions each... Janet Jackson's success is quite surprising since she's black has no big talent whatsoever. Back in the 80's only a VERY small number of black artist could sell as much as white artists. I don't MAdonna having the same success if she was black... No way... |
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krayzie said: superspaceboy said: I completely disagree. You're basing your opinions on how you perceive their music. Music aside, I think Madonna has done a lot more and has taken a lot more creative risks and pushed bounderies much more than Janet...and THAT is why Madonna will always be "Queen". Madonna is and always will be considered one of the hardest working women in the entertainment business. Another thing the Madonna has going for her that Janet does not is that Madonna started from SCRATCH and made herself into what she is today. Janets had a little more "help" in life and it shows. Again, again You are comparing two different artists... Madonna is white, Janet is black... Madonna could reach a MUCH bigger audience and take more risk easily... I don't see any black artist doing what Madonna has done with the same talent and having the SAME success... No way... Never... Madonna has had a MASSIVE support from the white audience since day one. If I can remember her first LPs sold atrocioulsy well like than 10 millions each... Janet Jackson's success is quite surprising since she's black has no big talent whatsoever. Back in the 80's only a VERY small number of black artist could sell as much as white artists. I don't MAdonna having the same success if she was black... No way... Not to pour oil into the fire, but I doubt Madonna would have been as popular around the world if she was Japanese, Chinese, or Korean.... | |
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Rodya24 said: krayzie said: Again, again You are comparing two different artists... Madonna is white, Janet is black... Madonna could reach a MUCH bigger audience and take more risk easily... I don't see any black artist doing what Madonna has done with the same talent and having the SAME success... No way... Never... Madonna has had a MASSIVE support from the white audience since day one. If I can remember her first LPs sold atrocioulsy well like than 10 millions each... Janet Jackson's success is quite surprising since she's black has no big talent whatsoever. Back in the 80's only a VERY small number of black artist could sell as much as white artists. I don't MAdonna having the same success if she was black... No way... Not to pour oil into the fire, but I doubt Madonna would have been as popular around the world if she was Japanese, Chinese, or Korean.... Now, that's definitely something to think about!  | |
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krayzie said: Again, again You are comparing two different artists... Madonna is white, Janet is black... Madonna could reach a MUCH bigger audience and take more risk easily... I don't see any black artist doing what Madonna has done with the same talent and having the SAME success... No way... Never... Madonna has had a MASSIVE support from the white audience since day one. If I can remember her first LPs sold atrocioulsy well like than 10 millions each... Janet Jackson's success is quite surprising since she's black has no big talent whatsoever. Back in the 80's only a VERY small number of black artist could sell as much as white artists. I don't MAdonna having the same success if she was black... No way... If Madge ws black she would have been: Treassy | |
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I can't wait to get a new album by Michael. I don't think you can go into it thinking it will be bigger than thriller. Just go in and make the best music you can.
Also, I would love to see Michael live again, but I do not think a tour with Michael and Janet would work. From my point of view, they have very different fan bases. Just my opinion. | |
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midnightmover said: TotalAlisa said: who seriously cares about the UK... they rely on the us.. for military protection... and they have no kind of power.... no offense to anyone in the UK>. one of my best friends live there... but seriously the UK doesn't have any kind of millitary power.... with the US>.. they would have been destroyed or under the control of another country if janet's not popular there.. then that fine with me.. and many of her US fans [Edited 9/17/07 14:38pm]  You are starting to seriously worry me. On the other thread you said you wanted to get into government so you could outlaw homosexuals. Now you're dismissing an entire country because you don't think they have enough killing machines. The worrying thing is that people like you are actually allowed to vote.i was just being silly.... basically i was saying the UK doesn't determine who is significant.. and who isn't... and if someone is not popular over in the UK.. oh well... that country is small.. and doesn't have the most influence anyways.... |
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midnightmover said: TotalAlisa said: who cares.. she is more popular then you.. and has 100 million.. so who really cares about popularity... you better be glad im not there....
anyways... life doesn't evolve around you or your rock and roll friends.... there are lots of people who like janet.... even after the SB.... just get over it... Oh, believe me I'm very glad you're not here. And for the record, the only reason we're discussing her popularity in the UK and Europe is because false claims were being made about her popularity here. If you don't think it matters then maybe you should tell that to the people making the false claims. well good atleast you and I know.. that you fear me and my hamster friends I will call up all my rodent friends and we will attack    |
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superspaceboy said: TotalAlisa said: honestly i DON"T know about this Kyile Minouge woman... i can't say i know any songs... and im not sure what she looks like... so as far as her celebrity status... she's NOT that big.... anytime she can't reach a broad audience...' madonna is too much hype.... people say all these great things about her.. but honestly the only music that i think was her best.. was from the 80's... her music definitly does NOT sound better's then janet... just comparing their last two albums... Madonnas was NICE... but not better then janets.... its just madonna gets more recognition by the media... and janet and many other black artists are ignored... just pick up a tabloid magazine.. or any celeb magazine.. and you will see what i mean.... SO there is NO way madonna is better then janet... So because YOU don't know her music means she's not that big? Kylie is the MADONNA everywhere BUT here. And just because you don't like Madonna's music doesn't mean she's bad. It simply means you don't like her music. Madonna gets more meadi attention because she goes after it. It also comes back around because she is also an ICON, so she gets asked to do things like H&M (I am merely speculating she got asked for that...she gets asked for lots of things). But trust me Madonna is in the media because she puts herself there for the most part. Janet seems to enjoy her privacy and hence doesn't put herself out there as much. i don't see madonna doing reality shows, or showing her house.. she does NOT put herself out there any more then Janet.... and janet jackson is an ICON... even MTV at one point recognized her as an ICON... did you catch that award show they created for janet..... and its not that i don't like madonna's music... i actually like her lastest singles... its just the fact.. that her album and songs seriously aren't better then Janet's.. and seriously when it comes to a tour.. Janet wins this hands down.. just watch footage of ALL of janet's tours.. starting from the Janet tour to the AfY tour.... Madonna could never caputre something like that.... of course when the media puts the attention and freely gives you a label as an ICON.. how couldn't you sell ugly cloths... I have eyes and ears... and im seriously open to really great talented music... and from observing janet and madonna... I choose janet.. because the music alone... is better.. then i saw her videos and performances.... that just won... NOW if madonna was a better artist.. i would have choose her... last thing.. madonna said it herself.. she was not a great sing.. nor dancer.. but she has controversy... JANET.. during her beginning.. didn't have to use that.. she just brought the music.. and the dance.... |
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TotalAlisa said: superspaceboy said: So because YOU don't know her music means she's not that big? Kylie is the MADONNA everywhere BUT here. And just because you don't like Madonna's music doesn't mean she's bad. It simply means you don't like her music. Madonna gets more meadi attention because she goes after it. It also comes back around because she is also an ICON, so she gets asked to do things like H&M (I am merely speculating she got asked for that...she gets asked for lots of things). But trust me Madonna is in the media because she puts herself there for the most part. Janet seems to enjoy her privacy and hence doesn't put herself out there as much. i don't see madonna doing reality shows, or showing her house.. she does NOT put herself out there any more then Janet.... and janet jackson is an ICON... even MTV at one point recognized her as an ICON... did you catch that award show they created for janet..... and its not that i don't like madonna's music... i actually like her lastest singles... its just the fact.. that her album and songs seriously aren't better then Janet's.. and seriously when it comes to a tour.. Janet wins this hands down.. just watch footage of ALL of janet's tours.. starting from the Janet tour to the AfY tour.... Madonna could never caputre something like that.... every one of Janet's tours is exactly the same.  "Half of what I say is meaningless; but I say it so that the other half may reach you." - Kahlil Gibran | |
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superspaceboy said: TotalAlisa said: here's my arguement mister... Madonna may be bigger then janet.. but does She deserve to be... NOooooo way.... was recognition way to much recognition given to madonna... YES... just because she is more popular.. or in the media doesn't make her a better artist or a in a higher league.... if you guys just compare and contrast their music and videos.. you will see their is a inequality between the artist... and its Not fair... I completely disagree. You're basing your opinions on how you perceive their music. Music aside, I think Madonna has done a lot more and has taken a lot more creative risks and pushed bounderies much more than Janet...and THAT is why Madonna will always be "Queen". Madonna is and always will be considered one of the hardest working women in the entertainment business. Another thing the Madonna has going for her that Janet does not is that Madonna started from SCRATCH and made herself into what she is today. Janets had a little more "help" in life and it shows. isn't about the MUSIC.... thats what its about.. NOt ABOUT showing their private parts.. not about the size of their breast... not about how many people they slept with... now about being a skank... its about the music.... not about cloths... not about taking risks IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW you start... because many people have an easy foot in the door.. but that doesn't mean they are going to take off... and JANET comes from the jackson family and that is a talented family.. so that talent gene was passed on to her... without talent she would NOT have made it far.... and NO madonna will NEVER be the queen for everyone.... |
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 You CANNOT use the name of God, or religion, to justify acts of violence, to hurt, to hate, to discriminate- Madonna
authentic power is service- Pope Francis | |
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Rodya24 said: TotalAlisa said: who seriously cares about the UK... they rely on the us.. for military protection... and they have no kind of power.... no offense to anyone in the UK>. one of my best friends live there... but seriously the UK doesn't have any kind of millitary power.... with the US>.. they would have been destroyed or under the control of another country if janet's not popular there.. then that fine with me.. and many of her US fans [Edited 9/17/07 14:38pm]
So... then I guess you do not care about the rest of the human race, with the exception of those residing in the United States which is the sole superpower in the world. miss sorry.. i meant who cares about what artist is popular in the UK... |
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TotalAlisa said: Rodya24 said:
So... then I guess you do not care about the rest of the human race, with the exception of those residing in the United States which is the sole superpower in the world. miss sorry.. i meant who cares about what artist is popular in the UK... "Miss" | |
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TotalAlisa said: Rodya24 said:
So... then I guess you do not care about the rest of the human race, with the exception of those residing in the United States which is the sole superpower in the world. miss sorry.. i meant who cares about what artist is popular in the UK... if wasn't for the British there wouldn't be a US so your point is what? and more than just Americans come to the org. [Edited 9/17/07 19:03pm] You CANNOT use the name of God, or religion, to justify acts of violence, to hurt, to hate, to discriminate- Madonna
authentic power is service- Pope Francis | |
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ehuffnsd said: TotalAlisa said: miss sorry.. i meant who cares about what artist is popular in the UK... if wasn't for the British there wouldn't be a US so your point is what? and more than just Americans come to the org. [Edited 9/17/07 19:03pm] so true.. but now they rely on the US for protection... if not.. they wouldn't be around right now... so now you guys help created us.. and we are preventing them from being destroyed... cuba.. could have taken over the UK.. if it wasn't for the US... the UK is small... so i would think places like asia, and south america and other large european countries... would have the biggest impact on record sales... |
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TotalAlisa said: ehuffnsd said: if wasn't for the British there wouldn't be a US so your point is what? and more than just Americans come to the org. [Edited 9/17/07 19:03pm] so true.. but now they rely on the US for protection... if not.. they wouldn't be around right now... so now you guys help created us.. and we are preventing them from being destroyed... cuba.. could have taken over the UK.. if it wasn't for the US... the UK is small... so i would think places like asia, and south america and other large european countries... would have the biggest impact on record sales... germany i believe is the second largest music market than japan and than the UK and for being a small island at one time the Sun Never Setted on the British Empire. You CANNOT use the name of God, or religion, to justify acts of violence, to hurt, to hate, to discriminate- Madonna
authentic power is service- Pope Francis | |
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TotalAlisa said: ehuffnsd said: if wasn't for the British there wouldn't be a US so your point is what? and more than just Americans come to the org. [Edited 9/17/07 19:03pm] so true.. but now they rely on the US for protection... if not.. they wouldn't be around right now... so now you guys help created us.. and we are preventing them from being destroyed... cuba.. could have taken over the UK.. if it wasn't for the US... the UK is small... so i would think places like asia, and south america and other large european countries... would have the biggest impact on record sales... How is the US preventing the UK from being DESTROYED? And Cuba? THANK GOD you are not in government. Homophobic people like you are the ones who are responsible for the state of the world right now. Please spare me the bullshit about US being the defender or bringer of democracy. Your leaders past and present have intervened more than enough in Latin America, Asia, and the Middle East. The US has brought more death and chaos to the rest of the world than you can imagine. Want evidence? Take a trip to the Dominican Republic, Iraq, and North Korea. | |
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ehuffnsd said: TotalAlisa said: so true.. but now they rely on the US for protection... if not.. they wouldn't be around right now... so now you guys help created us.. and we are preventing them from being destroyed... cuba.. could have taken over the UK.. if it wasn't for the US... the UK is small... so i would think places like asia, and south america and other large european countries... would have the biggest impact on record sales... germany i believe is the second largest music market than japan and than the UK and for being a small island at one time the Sun Never Setted on the British Empire. THANK GOD Great Britain is not as powerful as it used to be. Like the Land of the Free, most of its leaders have been full of bullshit. Why am I even bothering to respond to TotalAlisa? Good God.... | |
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I agree about the black / white - janet / madonna argument when it comes selling albums. White's will always sell more. Michael Jackson is the only BLACK artist from a group who have sold over 200 millions albums and he's not even your average looking black artist -
MICHAEL JACKSON The Beatles Elvis Presley Frank Sinatra Queen Elton John Julio Iglesias Madonna Cliff Richard ABBA Pink Floyd Bing Crosby Nana Mouskouri The Rolling Stones Celine Dion Black artists like MJ who are the threats to this group will always have a hard time. If MJ was to sample a abba song and release it as a first single like madonna he would get hammered. | |
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Rodya24 said: TotalAlisa said: so true.. but now they rely on the US for protection... if not.. they wouldn't be around right now... so now you guys help created us.. and we are preventing them from being destroyed... cuba.. could have taken over the UK.. if it wasn't for the US... the UK is small... so i would think places like asia, and south america and other large european countries... would have the biggest impact on record sales... How is the US preventing the UK from being DESTROYED? And Cuba? THANK GOD you are not in government. Homophobic people like you are the ones who are responsible for the state of the world right now. Please spare me the bullshit about US being the defender or bringer of democracy. Your leaders past and present have intervened more than enough in Latin America, Asia, and the Middle East. The US has brought more death and chaos to the rest of the world than you can imagine. Want evidence? Take a trip to the Dominican Republic, Iraq, and North Korea. first of all mister... Im not Homophobia.... i love and respect everyone.. and would NEVER want anyone harming them or anyone.... just cause i don't agree with their lifestyle doesn't mean that I don't love or respect them.... second.... Why do you guys take what i say so seriously...  |
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Nobody will ever top Thriller. As for MJ being done,i don't think 2.3 million sales in 2002 with invincible is done. That may be a flop by MJ standards,but thats a success for your average music artist. When you judge MJ sales,compare them to the average music artist,not MJ at 25 years old. Being done is when a artist can no longer sale 1 million in the USA. | |
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I'm not a massive MJ fan, but i don't think that todays'"superstars" will ever sell 5-10 millions albums in 25 years from now like MJ did.
I does only prove one thing, how popular (not relevant) MJ music still is to some extent. I've always prefered funkier artists like Prince or JB, but one has to admit that MJ music appeal has always been relatively high around the world and even in my country.  | |
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To bring the subject back at hand (since y'all into some generalizing countries and races and the aforementioned '80s pop legends and shit, lol). Michael can FORGET about topping "Thriller". Get back to his CRAFT, not focus on sales. Mike NEVER says anything until he's ready. It probably won't be until 2009 until he is ready too, lol. | |
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Why do you all assume the article meant the new album will sell as much as Thriller? The close Jackson associate said it will be as big as Thriller. Which probably means it will be the talk of the industry, it will break new ground and it will recieve many, many awards just like Thriller did. It can still sell 10 million and be as big as Thriller. In ways Bad was as big as Thriller. It didn't sell as much but the hype, the publicity, the radio play and all that was as big as Thriller.
Also, just so you guys don't have to worry any more that Michael is too fixated on outselling Thriller, will.i.am recently said in an interview that alot of the time him and MJ were just talking about what direction Michael wanted to take this new album. He said Michael doesn't want to compete with himself because will told him straight up that no one has any change of outselling Thriller. Not Kanye West, not Justin Timberlake, and not even Michael Jackson. So Michael's not fused with that anymore and in his own words, he is not competing with himself. | |
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