ok, this isn't a generalization but i've gathered from a few posts here that many of those who hate on funk as a genre on this site might be non African-American. vain andy seems to be the exception LOL. (lots of ppl don't want to hear the funky Prince). i've heard it called the worst genre ever, and pointless music.

Could it be that because funk is arguably the MOST rhythm based music of all genres (read "blackest") and therefore where the rhythmlessness myth holds true (if u follow my thought), it alienates those fans? [this argument could be extended to hip-hop, (at least where the content ISN'T so vulgar or juvenile) but based on its aesthetics, not funkiness].

whaddya think?

I don't see a lot of funk hatin' goin' on 'round here.

People hate funk because they did not know you are supposed to feel music. If you have no soul, you can't feel music.

you make my point in a different way Six.

Funkenstein, u've missed some threads that would've shown u otherwise as it relates to funk

thats a very stupid theory.
don't you know that white people listen funk more then black people.
black people invented funk and rock'n'roll but for some reason they are much more into shit hop

Well, I do think that many people who don't like funk, reggae, hip-hop, certain types of jazz etc. might not appreciate it because they don't feel the groove or aren't used to music that doesn't have a straight-forward vocal melody as its main hook rather than rhythmic (or polyrhythmic) interplay.

I wouldn't say it's a racial thing though (obviously not because I happen to be Caucasian and a major lover classic funk, R&B, jazz, reggae and hip-hop), I'd say certain people are just "groove-deaf" and/or their distate is an extension of their unwillingness to make an effort to appreciate music that isn't immediately accessible to them.

I'm as white and European as they come and I love it. How could Prince fans NOT?

datdude said:

Dat, I'm an old Funk head, always have been, always will be. For the individual(s) who think it's the worst genre, I couldn't imagine all the musical measures being used except 4/4. If you don't like, cool. But as long as there are musical measures? It ain't going no where. Dat, Funk is real stanky, some can't handle that type of stench. You can never wash it off, stays with you FOREVER.....lol.

[cueing up Sizzaleenmean,the Freeze]

datdude said:

Yea, apparently. Guess I'm blind to ignorant bullshit
Anyways, I'm white, 20 years old and from Finland of all places and I absolutely love funk.

datdude said:

This has come up more on the Prince: Music and More forum than here.



tA

Tribal Disorder

http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431

datdude said:

It depends on the type of funk. It would be hard to find anyone that dislikes 777-9311... it would be easier to find someone that dislikes Musicology.

datdude said:

I'm glow-in-the-dark white, and I've always liked funk. I was going to say that the Detroit sound was inspired by German electronic bands, but you are from Detroit, so I'm surprised by your posting.

Sorry, but black people do not have the patent on rhythm.

coolcat said:

thats funk rock

EmbattledWarrior said:

If we take out the guitar solo at the end, would it still be funk rock?

People hate FUNK because they can't dance or they just don't get what FUNK is.

racial generalizations are for the ignorant


"white people don't like funk" is insulting to this white person

rhythm = black people? WTF!

You are from Detroit, so I guess that's why you've made these ignorant generalizations, we're in one of the most segregated cities in the country
[Edited 7/24/07 13:24pm]

coolcat said:

no than it would just be synth funk...

jacktheimprovident said:

Yup... I think lots of people (nothing to do with black or white imo) don't like polyrhythms, polyphony, or poly-anything... they like a chord or root note... with a melody on top... they don't like syncopation...

Same reason people don't like Baroque music, or a lot of synthpop (which uses lots of counterpoint)...

Funk is sporatic, and abrasive...
Some people don't like it cause the harmonies and melodies arent truly relied on.
Funk compositions are fully rhythm related, every instrument is a rhythm instrument...
It's an aquired taste.

coolcat said:

thats a technical way of putting it

EmbattledWarrior said:

But we're both getting at the same thing I think.

thebanishedone said:

where are your empirical statistics for such a dogmatic statement. do u have a niesel apparatus for the stereo in people's homes? i at least presented mine as a THEORY. i see u're a "banishedone" for a reason. those who PRIMARILY listen hip-hop DO NOT comprise 100% of the black population. and perhaps we should think in terms of proportions as to compare black and white in terms of SCALE, given the population differential would be inappropriate

datdude said:

He's right dude...
i've been gigging and playing some funk for a few years now..
And when we play funk or jazz white people are the majority...
Funk was abandoned, like Rock & Roll by black people, they traded it in for Hip hop and Horrible pop stylized R&B...

You don't need a general statistic, just go to any college's Jazz/ funk history class's you'll see 20 white cats and one black dude...
i know... i went to one last semester...
was exactly that...

i LOVE this quote. thanks jack the improv. you helped bring clarity to the idea of 'groove deafness' making something "inaccessible" to those who are.

i agree it isn't a black white thing per se, but perhaps proportionately so in the sense of "groove deafness"

datdude said:

Groove-deafness you know he wasn't being serious...

its an aquired taste...
And not all funk is good...
the vast majority of funk released was absolute swill...
thats why it died quickly...
The problems with funk were, it wasn't lyrically or vocally substantial.
Prince healed this with adding good to decent lyrics, and fusing the rock counterpart.

Me personally i have to be in a certain mood to listen to funk, its not one of those genres i can listen to or play everyday...
simply because im lyrically and vocally oriented...
and tend to lean towards harmony and melody than actual rhythm...
etc...
which is why some people don't like funk

Slave2daGroove said:

who are you quoting here, because its definitely not me. if it is an attempt at a paraphrase its a poor attempt, because i stated in the original post that this WAS NOT a generalization. further i used words like SOME, and MANY. i am from the D. and i believe i understand race relations quite well because of it(the segregation is a direct result of that). and musically speaking, MoJo was the pioneer that broadened my horizons beyond just "black funk". of course black ppl don't have a patent on rhythm, i was getting at rather or not if something is 'inacessible' rhythmically for someone if that alienates that person.

btw, i like the critique and comparison of 777 vs. Musicology and whether guitar at the end of 777 alters it, genre-wise. it BRIEFLY becomes funk rock as it had been synth funk up to that point. i guess P was just showing off a bit

datdude said:

So because you say it's not a generalization, it's not? Then give specifics because your comments are lost on me.

What isn't is what I've bolded from your quote. Sorry if I've misread what you were trying to say, it sounds like generalizations with comments like "i was getting at rather or not if something is 'inacessible' rhythmically for someone", how can listening to funk or being a fan of the genre be rythmically inaccessible?

Clarity?

Dat, nothings abrasive about my Funk, unless I attack the piece in an "abrasive" way. Can it be? of course? you're playing the notes and accentuating accordingly. Dat here's the deal. Ain't shit died, cause he may not play it or listen to it is that viewers take. You know in your OWN heart what you hear EVERY day. My friend you know what's REALLY dying, but I see no pallbearers for that, and trust me, THAT genre is on life support. The only thing that makes a lie the truth, is if you believe it. Do your own research, and live your own life. Don't be led.....be the Leader!

Warrior, My man, we can discussed this back channels, front channels, or even the English channel. As much as I respect P, he DID NOT heal no Funk? dude get real!

Dat, some people don't dig it, because no matter how hard they try, they keep fuckin' up the time sig, and can't figure out how to stay WITHIN the sig, whether it be playing or dancing.

I’m not going to sugarcoat or beat around the bush about it. There are always cool exceptional people who explore beyond what they are “supposed to” but a lot of hatred of funk has to do with racism.

I grew up in The South in the early 1980s and, back then, no white person listened to funk in my area except me. My first love was disco (which was listened to by all races) and when disco died, I turned to the closest sounding thing at the time, which was funk. People will not admit it but most of it had to do with racism. I know firsthand because white people called me every “nigger lover” name in the book. They didn’t say things like …. “Why are you listening to that disco sounding shit. Disco is dead”…..They said things like “Why do you listen to that nigger shit, you must be a damn nigger lover”….It didn’t take long before I had developed a strong hatred toward my own race. In those days, I did “all things black”. All my friends were black, I only dated black people, and I went skating on “Super Soul Skate Night” only….in other words….. “Black Night”. It had gotten to the point that if I saw another white person in the place, I would let them know real quick…. “Motherfucker, I am the only white delight in this place tonight. Get lost”. I never changed until the 1990s after I had several black people to shit on me, just like white people had before. It was then, that I realized that there are good and bad in all races.

You may think…. “Well this motherfucker had other issues besides just musical preference”….. but at the very beginning, it all started when white people tried to dictate something as simple as what music I’m “supposed to listen to” because of my race. Then they tried to dictate who I should be friends with.

I realize that I’m from The South and The South has always been the most racist place on earth. However, if you look at the music charts back then and the television shows such as “American Bandstand” and “Soul Train”, you will see that there were separate black and white audiences for different types of music back then. Apparently, issues with race and music was a nationwide thing but not just as brazen and in the open as The South. Since this is a Prince site, here’s a perfect example. Why the hell was Prince not played on white radio stations after the death of disco and why the hell hadn’t most white people heard of Prince before “Little Red Corvette”? Prince had put rock tracks on all his earlier albums so there was certainly rock for them to play if it’s just a genre thing. Prince wasn’t played on white stations because he was black. People can sugarcoat it all they want to but that’s just the way it was.

As a got older, a noticed a lot of white people I grew up with listening to stuff like “Freak-A-Zoid” by Midnight Star or “Let It Whip” by The Dazz Band. These songs were never played on white stations in my area so how did they have knowledge of them. I asked some of them and they said they secretly listened to some of those songs growing up but would never admit it……just like I secretly listened to a little rock growing up but would never admit it until I got older.

If you don’t think there is any racism involved in the way the genres have been split between the races, then you have your head buried in the sand.
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[Edited 7/24/07 14:24pm]

I've noticed with this younger generation, that when it comes to funk, it's the exact opposite than when I was growing up.

I first started noticing a select few white kids listening to black music in the mid 1980s during the breakdancing era. In the late 1980s, I started noticing more and more white teenage boys listening to rap.

White record labels soon discovered that more people were listening to rap than just black people, and since it was cheap to make, they promoted the hell out of it and kept everything else out.

From what I observed growing up, there were much more white kids exploring other types of music than there were black kids exploring other types of music than just what was played on the R&B stations. Apparently, the record labels saw this because they saw white kids listening to rap and saw big profits in it. Look how long rap and shit hop has dominated R&B radio, there is a whole generation of black kids that were born into it, know nothing else, and have no desire to explore elsewhere. I'm white and I never would have explored other genres if funk had lasted forever. When funk died, having gone through many different style changes in R&B music such as early 70s R&B (which they played every now and then on R&B stations in the 1980s), blues, disco, funk, rap (fast rap), and house music, I refused to accept some slow boring music like shit hop. Shit hop is all these kids know so they aren't going to go looking for something else.
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[Edited 7/24/07 14:58pm]