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PrintableGraycap23 said: silverchild said: [ he is still one of the most influential artists in music history.
I really dug Marvin, but was he REALLY one of the most influential artists in music history? I don't believe that. Why not? What's Going On is probably the most important album in the history of soul music. Look at what it did to/for Motown alone. "Whitney was purely and simply one of a kind." ~ Clive Davis | |
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PapaSmurf said: He was a wife beater, womanizer, and drug addict. Sure, Marvin made good music but as a person he's hardly anyone worth celebrating.
I highly recommend that you all read this book. It gives a good insite about the life of Marvin and all of the pain he faced throughout his life. It has been issued several times with different covers. I also recommend that you guys rent this video: 
It has some great interviews with both of his wives and his children (including Nona). It is not shot in the best quality (considering it is from Eagle Vision, I was surprised), but the contents are great. You even get to see footage of the funeral. [Edited 4/2/07 9:45am] **--••--**--••**--••--**--••**--••--**--••**--••-
U 'gon make me shake my doo loose! http://www.twitter.com/nivlekbrad | |
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daPrettyman said: PapaSmurf said: He was a wife beater, womanizer, and drug addict. Sure, Marvin made good music but as a person he's hardly anyone worth celebrating.
I highly recommend that you all read this book. It gives a good insite about the life of Marvin and all of the pain he faced throughout his life [Edited 4/2/07 9:41am] Thats the most gut-wrenching, honest, vulnerable and raw book about him to date. It described his inner conflicts in depth and details,,,,,with all of his extra smooth and cool exterior, it turns out that Marvin had his shares of insecurities just like anybody else. | |
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I must find this one sooner or later:
 Check me out and add me on:
www.last.fm/user/brandosoul "Truth is, everybody is going to hurt you; you just gotta find the ones worth suffering for." -Bob Marley | |
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silverchild said: I must find this one sooner or later:
I got it  It is not known why FuNkeNsteiN capitalizes his name as he does, though some speculate sunlight deficiency caused by the most pimpified white guy afro in Nordic history.
- Lammastide | |
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SoulAlive said: PapaSmurf said: He was a wife beater, womanizer, and drug addict. Sure, Marvin made good music but as a person he's hardly anyone worth celebrating.
Oh please  Artists are people too.They have their good and bad qualities.Even Prince has alot of character flaws.All that matters is their art.That's what people should be focusing on."Oh please" all you want. People defend Marvin Gaye on the mere basis that he was a "beloved" artist. "He had inner turmoil...he was plagued by inner conflicts..." "Oh please" to that. If this were any other Joe Schmoe on the nightly news, you'd all be saying, "What scum, he should rot in jail." | |
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PapaSmurf said: SoulAlive said: Oh please Artists are people too.They have their good and bad qualities.Even Prince has alot of character flaws.All that matters is their art.That's what people should be focusing on."Oh please" all you want. People defend Marvin Gaye on the mere basis that he was a "beloved" artist. "He had inner turmoil...he was plagued by inner conflicts..." "Oh please" to that. If this were any other Joe Schmoe on the nightly news, you'd all be saying, "What scum, he should rot in jail." I just don't think you should have the last word on this issue. First, I think the thread was started to honor Marvin's work, which was certainly stellar AND I think that anyone who has read "Divided Soul." while not excusing his behavior, some of which was terrible, would certainly be more understanding about why it came about. I don't think anyone is defending him. I think that when we know as much about Joe Schmoe, many people would be more understanding about him as well. It's not the who, it's the what. Never trust anything spoken in the presence of an erection.
H Michael Frase | |
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Yeah beating up your dad isn't cool. The Most Important Thing In Life Is Sincerity....Once You Can Fake That, You Can Fake Anything. |
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PapaSmurf said: SoulAlive said: Oh please Artists are people too.They have their good and bad qualities.Even Prince has alot of character flaws.All that matters is their art.That's what people should be focusing on."Oh please" all you want. People defend Marvin Gaye on the mere basis that he was a "beloved" artist. "He had inner turmoil...he was plagued by inner conflicts..." "Oh please" to that. If this were any other Joe Schmoe on the nightly news, you'd all be saying, "What scum, he should rot in jail." If you don't like Marvin,then why the hell are you on this thread? If you wanna discuss what a crazy bastard you think he was,start your own damn thread Like I said before,artists are people too.They have their good and bad qualities.Nobody's perfect.I'm sure even YOU have a few skeletons in your closet too. | |
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theAudience said: paligap said: ...
Actually I was just posting about Thomas Dolby, and here's his story of seeing Marvin's "National Anthem" performance" for the first time (only recently, believe it or not)... From Dolby's Blog: " ...Stevie and Marvin Friday, February 9th, 2007 I just watched a clip on YouTube that filled in a missing blank in my personal history. And I’m crying my eyes out right now. In 1985 I was asked to perform live at the Grammy Awards with Stevie Wonder, Herbie Hancock, and Howard Jones. [Note: there is also a clip of this, but that’s NOT what this blog is about. Read on!] The producers wanted us to play a synth medley consisting of one hit from each of us, and ending with the US National Anthem. As the TV show was to be mimed, we were booked to record the backing track the day before the dress rehearsal at Stevie’s studio on Western in Los Angeles, which was a huge and beautiful old movie theater. This was quite an elaborate process, and it took all day. Towards nightfall Stevie’s manager took myself and Howard aside and told us that Stevie was going to play a practical joke on Herbie, and it was going to be filmed for a TV show called ‘Bloopers.’ Stevie had told Herbie that we’d been recording on a brand new prototype Sony 48-track digital recorder, and that two top Sony executives from Japan were coming to be filmed with us at the session. They showed up, bowing very cheerfully, everybody danced around to our groovy backing track, and the cameraman was getting it all down. But suddenly someone in the control room pressed the wrong button, and the tape went silent. It seemed all 48 tracks had mistakenly gone into ‘erase’ mode, leaving a 5-second silence in our recording. Of course, everybody but Herbie knew it was all a hoax. They allowed him to suffer for about 5 minutes before telling him the truth. Everybody was delighted with the joke, even Herbie, and around midnight people started to disperse to different parts of the building. But I was a bit concernced as we had not yet recorded ‘The Star Spangled Banner’, and we were due at the Grammy’s rehearsal in about 10 hours’ time. So I went to look for Stevie in the maze of small rooms scattered around the building. Usually he is pretty easy to find as there’s an entourage of several people with him. But on this occasion he was nowhere to be found. I eventually tracked Stevie down. He was all alone, in an attic-like room on the top floor of the building filled with old files and papers. He was on his knees, playing a beaten-up upright piano. I announced my presence, and reminded him we had an anthem to record. He asked if I had any ideas for it. I said, what about a really slow sexy groove on a drum machine, and really spread it out? Stevie thought for a moment, then said ‘uh-uh. Marvin tried that one time man. He sang it that way at an NBA all-star game, and you know what? he never got on TV again until the day he died. Because all the network executives couldn’t handle a black man singing a sexy soul version of the National Anthem.’ Ok, I thought, that wasn’t such a good idea. But the image of Marvin, one of my all time favorite singers, shocking televisionland in his own inimitable style, was too much. So I said ‘wow, that must have sounded pretty great! How did he sing it?’ Stevie’s head stopped moving and for a few seconds he was completely motionless. Then slowly his fingers found the piano keys, and he started to play and sing. He sang the song through to the end. For those two minutes I don’t think my heart beat at all. I couldn’t breathe. I swear if my vital signs had been hooked up to a monitor, it would have been a flatline. He was simultaneously recalling the song; translating the chords into a gospel style; and playing in his memory banks, if not perhaps the exact licks, then at least the soul and the feeling of Marvin’s vocal performance from two years earlier. His only audience was me, huddled in a corner of this dusty attic. And any single line was one that I (or any almost other singer on the planet) would have given my right eye for. I’ve told this story a few times over the years. But until tonight, I had never seen Marvin’s actual performance the NBA game. I’d never thought to look for it on YouTube—though now I come to think of it, it’s a natural for someone to put up there. By chance I saw an article today about Marvin, and it included a link to the clip. So, thanks to YouTube, a little piece of history is now complete for me. From the first few seconds I was completely crying my eyes out. Here it is." http://www.youtube.com/wa...RvVzaQ6i8A ... Great story.  Great story,indeed!!  Very interesting. | |
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Graycap23 said: silverchild said: he is still one of the most influential artists in music history.
I really dug Marvin, but was he REALLY one of the most influential artists in music history? I don't believe that. Oh come on.Almost every male R&B artist from this generation cites Marvin as an influence! Most of thse neo-soul cats are basically ripping him off,left and right. | |
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Graycap23 said: silverchild said: [ he is still one of the most influential artists in music history.
I really dug Marvin, but was he REALLY one of the most influential artists in music history? I don't believe that. YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING HERE. Marvin Gaye is the most influential male soul singer ever. Vocal style, onstage presence and persona, a legacy of tremendous songs, you name it. Gaye was considered the standard-bearer in the 1970s by his peers (see Stevie Wonder, Ronald Isley); the 1980s (see Luther Vandross, El DeBarge); and the 1990s (see D'Angelo, Maxwell, R. Kelly in some parts). If you cut Gaye's career in half -- the 1960s stuff on one side, the 1970s music on the other -- each part likely would stand as one of the best artists in soul music history. Putting both parts together, and only James Brown can mount a challenge based on musical impact and credibility. [Edited 4/3/07 4:53am] THE TRAFFIC JAMMERS, The Org's house band: VAINANDY -- lead singer; NAJEE -- bass; THE AUDIENCE -- guitar; PHUNKDADDY -- rhythm guitar; ALEX de PARIS -- keyboards; Da PRETTYMAN -- keyboards; FUNKENSTEIN -- drums. HOLD ON TO YOUR DRAWERS! |
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PapaSmurf said: He was a wife beater, womanizer, and drug addict. Sure, Marvin made good music but as a person he's hardly anyone worth celebrating.
Save we're not discussing (much less celebrating) those things, but Marvin Gaye's music and the impact he had on soul music fans. THE TRAFFIC JAMMERS, The Org's house band: VAINANDY -- lead singer; NAJEE -- bass; THE AUDIENCE -- guitar; PHUNKDADDY -- rhythm guitar; ALEX de PARIS -- keyboards; Da PRETTYMAN -- keyboards; FUNKENSTEIN -- drums. HOLD ON TO YOUR DRAWERS! |
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AlexdeParis said: Why not? What's Going On is probably the most important album in the history of soul music. Look at what it did to/for Motown alone.
"Let's Get It On" also has to rank as one of the top three albums ever in soul music. More than 30 years later, it is still the standard-bearer for sensual, romantic (and erotic) love-making music. THE TRAFFIC JAMMERS, The Org's house band: VAINANDY -- lead singer; NAJEE -- bass; THE AUDIENCE -- guitar; PHUNKDADDY -- rhythm guitar; ALEX de PARIS -- keyboards; Da PRETTYMAN -- keyboards; FUNKENSTEIN -- drums. HOLD ON TO YOUR DRAWERS! |
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My favorite r&b, soul singer. He had the ability to make you feel what he was singing. He was awesome. And it's a shame how he went out, At the hands of his own father  | |
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Najee said: Graycap23 said: I really dug Marvin, but was he REALLY one of the most influential artists in music history? I don't believe that. YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING HERE. Marvin Gaye is the most influential male soul singer ever. Vocal style, onstage presence and persona, a legacy of tremendous songs, you name it. Gaye was considered the standard-bearer in the 1970s by his peers (see Stevie Wonder, Ronald Isley); the 1980s (see Luther Vandross, El DeBarge); and the 1990s (see D'Angelo, Maxwell, R. Kelly in some parts). If you cut Gaye's career in half -- the 1960s stuff on one side, the 1970s music on the other -- each part likely would stand as one of the best artists in soul music history. Putting both parts together, and only James Brown can mount a challenge based on musical impact and credibility. [Edited 4/3/07 4:53am] That's nice but I don't believe that. Take Marvin away and almost NOTHING in music would be different WITHOUT his career. | |
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While I think that Marvin Gaye is very, I don't think of him as the SINGLE most influential soul singer ever.
You have to put Sam Cooke into consideration, who was as influential if not more, hell, Sam influenced Marvin's phrasing. | |
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Graycap23 said: Najee said: YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING HERE. Marvin Gaye is the most influential male soul singer ever. Vocal style, onstage presence and persona, a legacy of tremendous songs, you name it. Gaye was considered the standard-bearer in the 1970s by his peers (see Stevie Wonder, Ronald Isley); the 1980s (see Luther Vandross, El DeBarge); and the 1990s (see D'Angelo, Maxwell, R. Kelly in some parts). If you cut Gaye's career in half -- the 1960s stuff on one side, the 1970s music on the other -- each part likely would stand as one of the best artists in soul music history. Putting both parts together, and only James Brown can mount a challenge based on musical impact and credibility. [Edited 4/3/07 4:53am] That's nice but I don't believe that. Take Marvin away and almost NOTHING in music would be different WITHOUT his career. How do you figure that? The most obvious example where Marvin made an impact is Stevie Wonder's career. Where I'm Coming From wasn't successful enough (despite being a great album), to prove that Berry Gordy was wrong about releasing it. Without the success of What's Going On, Gordy's biggest bad call, it's doubtful that Stevie would've had the necessary leverage to obtain the creative freedom he negotiated for that allowed him to record Music of My Mind and the subsequent albums. What's Going On was the turning point for Motown Records and the death knell for its cookie-cutter style, which trickled down to a whole host of artists (MJ being just one). I'm not sure I'd call Marvin the most influential soul singer ever, but he's certainly on the short list: James Brown Sam Cooke Ray Charles Marvin Gaye Stevie Wonder Off the top of my head, that would be my top 5 (in alphabetical order), with Curtis Mayfield (#6?), Otis Redding, and Al Green somewhere close. I'll have to think about it some more. Personally, Stevie Wonder is my favorite artist, but Marvin is my favorite singer. Just realized I didn't mention Aretha. I'll assume we're talking about men. "Whitney was purely and simply one of a kind." ~ Clive Davis | |
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AlexdeParis said: Graycap23 said: That's nice but I don't believe that. Take Marvin away and almost NOTHING in music would be different WITHOUT his career. How do you figure that? The most obvious example where Marvin made an impact is Stevie Wonder's career. Where I'm Coming From wasn't successful enough (despite being a great album), to prove that Berry Gordy was wrong about releasing it. Without the success of What's Going On, Gordy's biggest bad call, it's doubtful that Stevie would've had the necessary leverage to obtain the creative freedom he negotiated for that allowed him to record Music of My Mind and the subsequent albums. What's Going On was the turning point for Motown Records and the death knell for its cookie-cutter style, which trickled down to a whole host of artists (MJ being just one). I'm not sure I'd call Marvin the most influential soul singer ever, but he's certainly on the short list: James Brown Sam Cooke Ray Charles Marvin Gaye Stevie Wonder Off the top of my head, that would be my top 5 (in alphabetical order), with Curtis Mayfield (#6?), Otis Redding, and Al Green somewhere close. I'll have to think about it some more. Personally, Stevie Wonder is my favorite artist, but Marvin is my favorite singer. Just realized I didn't mention Aretha. I'll assume we're talking about men. Marvin, like many others had their impact but I'd be very careful about saying how far his impact went. I respect your opinion, I just don't agree with it. | |
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Graycap23 said: Marvin, like many others had their impact but I'd be very careful about saying how far his impact went. I respect your opinion, I just don't agree with it.
I respect your opinion as well, which is why I wish you'd elaborate. You've said that you disagree with us, but you haven't explained why. Who would you deem worthy of being called "one of the most influential singers"? For all we know, it could just be that the number of artists that you'd consider the most influential is smaller than ours. "Whitney was purely and simply one of a kind." ~ Clive Davis | |
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listened to Marvin all day sat.
glad he made the music he left us with 
he was one of few artist that I wuish had done more | |
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glt said: listened to Marvin all day sat.
glad he made the music he left us with
he was one of few artist that I wuish had done more Yea, I spinned the Let's Get It On album last nite and when "If I Should Die Tonight" came on, I couldn't help but think about his vision for this world and remembering him even deeper. I also played the entire Master 1961-1984 box set for the first time on Sunday and it was incredible. His body of work is just impeccable today as it was over 30-40 years ago. Check me out and add me on:
www.last.fm/user/brandosoul "Truth is, everybody is going to hurt you; you just gotta find the ones worth suffering for." -Bob Marley | |
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played "the Master1961-1984 several times
also Let's Get it On and In Our Lifetime  | |
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AlexdeParis said: Graycap23 said: Marvin, like many others had their impact but I'd be very careful about saying how far his impact went. I respect your opinion, I just don't agree with it.
I respect your opinion as well, which is why I wish you'd elaborate. You've said that you disagree with us, but you haven't explained why. Who would you deem worthy of being called "one of the most influential singers"? For all we know, it could just be that the number of artists that you'd consider the most influential is smaller than ours. I'll have 2 give it some thought. I've never really thought about that question but when something like that comes up, Marvin's names NEVER enters my mine. "Soul" music is a tough one 4 me. I don't know if the public definition of soul is what I would call soul. What makes soul music different from R&B? I'd say they are one in the same. Getting back 2 your question, I'd say the following were just as influential "soul" singers were: James Brown Sam Cooke Curtis Mayfield Stevie Wonder O'Jay's Sam and Dave Shuggie Otis Lenny Williams Otis Redding Wilson Pickett Jackie Wilson The Isley Brothers..... and many others would come 2 mind before Marvin. Now keep in mind I like Marvin, he was a great talent no question. Was he more influential than some of these people? I'm NOT so sure. | |
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Graycap23 said: AlexdeParis said: I respect your opinion as well, which is why I wish you'd elaborate. You've said that you disagree with us, but you haven't explained why. Who would you deem worthy of being called "one of the most influential singers"? For all we know, it could just be that the number of artists that you'd consider the most influential is smaller than ours. I'll have 2 give it some thought. I've never really thought about that question but when something like that comes up, Marvin's names NEVER enters my mine. "Soul" music is a tough one 4 me. I don't know if the public definition of soul is what I would call soul. What makes soul music different from R&B? I'd say they are one in the same. Getting back 2 your question, I'd say the following were just as influential "soul" singers were: James Brown Sam Cooke Curtis Mayfield Stevie Wonder O'Jay's Sam and Dave Shuggie Otis Lenny Williams Otis Redding Wilson Pickett Jackie Wilson The Isley Brothers..... and many others would come 2 mind before Marvin. Now keep in mind I like Marvin, he was a great talent no question. Was he more influential than some of these people? I'm NOT so sure. These are all influential soul legends indeed, but I still don't quite understand the point you are making about Marvin and soul music. People are not saying he was better than any other musician and singer in music history or anything like that, he was just a legend and the legacy he has left behind still inspires other people today. Marvin was actually the first artist at the Motown label, in my mind, to ever have artistic freedom. The What's Going On album was (still is) a giant in soul music history, but his legacy didn't even stop there. In the 60's, he even had timeless music and these are still pop milestones. Maybe u just need a little more knowledge on what soul music or the man Marvin really is... [Edited 4/3/07 13:35pm] Check me out and add me on:
www.last.fm/user/brandosoul "Truth is, everybody is going to hurt you; you just gotta find the ones worth suffering for." -Bob Marley | |
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silverchild said: Maybe u just need a little more knowledge on what soul music or the man Marvin really is...
[Edited 4/3/07 13:35pm] Lol.....more knowledge.....that is a good one. The original comment on this thread related 2 Marvin being one of the MOST influencial.....I just don't agree. It's all good though. [Edited 4/3/07 16:56pm] | |
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Graycap23 said: That's nice but I don't believe that. Take Marvin away and almost NOTHING in music would be different WITHOUT his career.
Among other things, prior to "What's Going On," soul artists typically didn't release albums with all new material -- most albums were about one or two new singles with previously recorded tracks. Marvin Gaye was also the first artist to record his own background singing on the then-new technology or multi-track studios. I'm not quite understanding your comments. No one is saying Marvin Gaye is the only source of inspiration among soul artists, but when looking at his vocal style, his body of work and other subjective factors you're going to be hard pressed to name artists whose entire package can stand with Gaye's. Of that list you made, only James Brown and Stevie Wonder's IMO comes closet to compete with Gaye's package. More importantly, I would like to hear what makes you think Gaye is "not all that." [Edited 4/3/07 18:39pm] THE TRAFFIC JAMMERS, The Org's house band: VAINANDY -- lead singer; NAJEE -- bass; THE AUDIENCE -- guitar; PHUNKDADDY -- rhythm guitar; ALEX de PARIS -- keyboards; Da PRETTYMAN -- keyboards; FUNKENSTEIN -- drums. HOLD ON TO YOUR DRAWERS! |
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Graycap23 said: Getting back 2 your question, I'd say the following were just as influential "soul" singers were:
James Brown Sam Cooke Curtis Mayfield Stevie Wonder O'Jay's Sam and Dave Shuggie Otis Lenny Williams Otis Redding Wilson Pickett Jackie Wilson The Isley Brothers..... Lenny Williams? The former Tower of Power lead singer who performed "Because I Love You?" 
C'mon, as great as most of these acts are only James Brown and Stevie Wonder can really rival Marvin Gaye with a combination of longevity, consistent success (commercial and critical) and overall impact of their genre. Otis Redding and Sam Cooke had untimely deaths that robbed whatever unrealized potential they had. Curtis Mayfield, Wilson Pickett and Jackie Wilson simply don't have the catalog. Most soul music fans likely don't even who Shuggie Otis is. I love The O'Jays, but most people would consider The Temptations a more prototypical soul vocal act. The Isley Brothers are arguably my all-time favorite act, but even at their peak in the 1970s they were no best than the No. 3 band of their time (after Earth, Wind & Fire and Parliament/Funkadelic). Not only that, but Gaye's overlapped with a some of these acts, and outside of Brown in the 1960s and Wonder in the 1970s most of them would rate behind them in some informal poll of music fans and critics. THE TRAFFIC JAMMERS, The Org's house band: VAINANDY -- lead singer; NAJEE -- bass; THE AUDIENCE -- guitar; PHUNKDADDY -- rhythm guitar; ALEX de PARIS -- keyboards; Da PRETTYMAN -- keyboards; FUNKENSTEIN -- drums. HOLD ON TO YOUR DRAWERS! |
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Najee said: Graycap23 said: That's nice but I don't believe that. Take Marvin away and almost NOTHING in music would be different WITHOUT his career.
Among other things, prior to "What's Going On," soul artists typically didn't release albums with all new material -- most albums were about one or two new singles with previously recorded tracks. Marvin Gaye was also the first artist to record his own background singing on the then-new technology or multi-track studios. I'm not quite understanding your comments. No one is saying Marvin Gaye is the only source of inspiration among soul artists, but when looking at his vocal style, his body of work and other subjective factors you're going to be hard pressed to name artists whose entire package can stand with Gaye's. Of that list you made, only James Brown and Stevie Wonder's IMO comes closet to compete with Gaye's package. More importantly, I would like to hear what makes you think Gaye is "not all that." [Edited 4/3/07 18:39pm] Lol....u guys are funny. I have never once said that Marvin was "not all that" as u have stated it. 2 say that Marvin is this great influence is NOT something that I would prescribe 2. That does does NOT make it a fact, just my opinion. Unlike a LOT of threads here, this one will NOT turn into an arguement. (at least NOT from me) [Edited 4/4/07 7:15am] | |
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