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Printable728huey said: lastdecember said:
I have been saying this a long time now, im glad the article finally pointed out the fact that you have major MUSIC chains closing down because labels refuse to work with them and lower their Sale price. I have been saying for years now that Stores are not the reason CDs sell for 13.99, LABELS ARE! if a label charges a store 12 bucks a cd how can you expect a store to turn around and sell it for 10 dollars. Sure Best Buy and Target do it, but they are not MUSIC retailers they make their money off electronics,warranties,appliances etc. So last year when TOWER went out and also we cant forget Musicland/Sam goody which i was a part of for 17 years shut down close to 600 stores, people really just thought "oh thats because music is being downloaded" oh really, even downloading is down too, downloading at this point is not even a big enough fraction of music sales for it to even be considered a threat to a CD.
But this is all a domino effect, music video outlets dont show videos anymore and when they do its the same 10 people, there is no marketing of music in this country at all. I look over at the UK and i see American Artists doing 15 different Music variety shows to push their records, Why dont they do it in america? Because there are no shows like that. Things will not change until Labels shift their thought process, and that mainly is "Marketing to teenagers", this, as i have said before is MORONIC, teenagers are the most un-loyal fan base of anything, their attention span is ZERO and most of them are dumber than a second coat of paint. So right now all these labels are scrambled to make it up somehow, but they wont, because alot of the solution comes from eliminating many corporate people and that wont happen. Music just isnt as important as it once was to people and that is the fault of the labels plain and simple, also this DREAM that the US market is the most important anymore is just that a DREAM, artists make alot more overseas than here even if they sell much less so you will see the focus change if you havent already. As with anything People have caught on, and i know people dont like to hear this, but there is alot of shit out there period, shit artists, shit producers, of course there has always been shit, but the problem is now, Shit is what is being pushed. A label now wont bank on an artist, if your 1st cd doesnt sell, later, next. Labels dont push artists, they push images, they push scandals, thats it. I talked to a friend at EMI recently who works as a rep and goes to record stores, and she said, there is no label right now that will try and push an artist that they think might not sell, the surprises you see, thicke,norah,whinehouse etc.. are all word of mouth, Labels arent pushing that, people are. It's exactly what you said, but the record companies are viciously clinging to a dying business model purely out of greed. One of the reasons that the artists on American Idol have become so huge is because it's one of the few forums in the USA for people to actually see music being performed. MTV and VH1 used to do this, but they abdicated that role by pushing non-stop reality shows and relegating the actual music to their digital cable and satellite channels, most of which are not seen because people don't want to pay $200 a month in cable/satellite fees just to get those extra channels. It's bad enough that the music retailers are disappearing, but the reports that Walmart and Best Buy, which for the most part only stocks CDs from the most popular artists, are cutting back on shelf space for music will only make it even more difficult to find new music. On top of that, why aren't the record labels following their their own stats. In the past ten years, purchases of CDs from people 30 to 55 years of age have gone up about 40 percent while sales among people 18 to 29 years of age have declined 10 to 20 percent. It's the adult market that the record companies need to aggressively go after, yet they insist on ignoring or shunning that very market.  So so true. This belief thats Music somehow is just for people under 25 is a joke. Im not saying that young artists dont deserve a chance, but lets level the damn playing field, back in 1986-1987 when you had Debbie Gibson and Tiffany those were the only teens that were out there pretty much, you could scan down a Top 40 chart from the 80's and see the likes of older acts like the Stones or Kool and the Gang, Aretha and then have a few youngsters in the mix, and of course the Artists of the day like Prince,MJ,Madonna,Bruce etc..But now i scan down a chart and i see almost no one mature meaning later 20's, i see no mix. But instead of recognizing this Labels continue to go with it, and not just labels its TV Media and magazines too, lets not just blame labels, I blame everyone from RollingStone magazine to Blender to MTV to BET to VH1, all of these things were built on the idea of "Making artists" but now they are just corporate slaves. To put in a better perspective on July 7th this year is the LIVE EARTH concert, which is like the Live Aid and Live 8 concerts, NBC is trying to get younger acts for its airtime, and cutting older acts that are playing, older acts like Bon Jovi,u2,Duran and REM, you know ARTISTS. Dont they realize that kids/teens are not going to watch this concert, so DONT TARGET THEM! I remember back in 1985 waking up at 5 am and watcing LIVE AID and enjoying the artists i wanted to see like Sting,Phil Collins,u2,inxs,men at work,duran,stones,tina etc... now these were artists already in there late 20's and 30's,40's and 50's, today these acts would be cut from the show. "We went where our music was appreciated, and that was everywhere but the USA, we knew we had fans, but there is only so much of the world you can play at once" Magne F | |
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asg said: I dont think price fixin is the issue here!1 if they reduce the price bestbuy and walmart will still sell it below cost maybe $5 and but the record stores r still screwed!!
I think alot of this is to do with piracy which is so random and secondly ppl r just buyin the hit singles!! the album form is losin its appeal becasue now u can pick and choose want to want!! In the late 90s record compnies tried to get rid of the singles just to force ppl to buy ful albums but they cant do that anymore!! most ppl just buy "flavor of the month" and ignore albums Price still is an issue and thats why albums dont matter. First the whole 80 minute CD thing is a joke, most new artists throw some much crap on a CD the average consumer doesnt want 80 minutes of anyone. I think labels need to work with stores in this case, i said this a long time ago when dealing in the business, Labels should force a certain sale price and not allow the below cost selling, this was attempted with MAP pricing, but labels quickly changed it and let everyone do want they wanted to do. Video Game companies do this, its actually a law that new games have to be sold at a certain price, regardless if its at Electronics Boutique or Game Stop or Best Buy or anywhere else. The fact that Best Buy and Wal Mart are cutting shelf space is not because of slow sales, its because they are feeling the crunch now from losing money on music, as you see lately their new release prices have been going up now that Tower and others are pretty much gone. "We went where our music was appreciated, and that was everywhere but the USA, we knew we had fans, but there is only so much of the world you can play at once" Magne F | |
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lastdecember said: asg said: I dont think price fixin is the issue here!1 if they reduce the price bestbuy and walmart will still sell it below cost maybe $5 and but the record stores r still screwed!!
I think alot of this is to do with piracy which is so random and secondly ppl r just buyin the hit singles!! the album form is losin its appeal becasue now u can pick and choose want to want!! In the late 90s record compnies tried to get rid of the singles just to force ppl to buy ful albums but they cant do that anymore!! most ppl just buy "flavor of the month" and ignore albums Price still is an issue and thats why albums dont matter. First the whole 80 minute CD thing is a joke, most new artists throw some much crap on a CD the average consumer doesnt want 80 minutes of anyone. I think labels need to work with stores in this case, i said this a long time ago when dealing in the business, Labels should force a certain sale price and not allow the below cost selling, this was attempted with MAP pricing, but labels quickly changed it and let everyone do want they wanted to do. Video Game companies do this, its actually a law that new games have to be sold at a certain price, regardless if its at Electronics Boutique or Game Stop or Best Buy or anywhere else. The fact that Best Buy and Wal Mart are cutting shelf space is not because of slow sales, its because they are feeling the crunch now from losing money on music, as you see lately their new release prices have been going up now that Tower and others are pretty much gone. well bestbuy doesnt care if it loses money on cds they just use it to drive traffic thru the store!! Bestbuy makes a killin on other products They sell everything so expensive! I live in san jose where u have local Electonic stores which r way better then bestbuy most town aint like that!! | |
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lastdecember said: This belief thats Music somehow is just for people under 25 is a joke.
In moments of insanity i've considered starting a record label catering to folks my age that don't mind spending money on CDs that they want. I know there are others like myself because i've seen them in places like Best Buy aimlessly wandering the Jazz (an almost non-existent area at this point) and R&B (a misnomer at this point) aisles like extras from Night of the Living Dead. 
tA  Tribal Disorder
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asg said: I dont think price fixin is the issue here!1 if they reduce the price bestbuy and walmart will still sell it below cost maybe $5 and but the record stores r still screwed!!
I think alot of this is to do with piracy which is so random and secondly ppl r just buyin the hit singles!! the album form is losin its appeal becasue now u can pick and choose want to want!! In the late 90s record compnies tried to get rid of the singles just to force ppl to buy ful albums but they cant do that anymore!! most ppl just buy "flavor of the month" and ignore albums here's a question i have why are all the songs on an album available for download on Itunes? why not just make the offical single downloadable and if u want the whole album you havw to download it in its entirety to get it...doesn't make sense | |
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theAudience said: lastdecember said: This belief thats Music somehow is just for people under 25 is a joke.
In moments of insanity i've considered starting a record label catering to folks my age that don't mind spending money on CDs that they want. I know there are others like myself because i've seen them in places like Best Buy aimlessly wandering the Jazz (an almost non-existent area at this point) and R&B (a misnomer at this point) aisles like extras from Night of the Living Dead.
tA Tribal Disorder
http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431 So true labels have cut out anyone older at this point, this bullshit that catalog doesnt sell is crap!, if it wasnt for catlog at this point things were really crash and burn. All i know is when i started way back in 1988 working at Sam goody we had aisles of Jazz,Classical etc... as the years passed and Best Buys came into play and the "fastfood marketers at labels" what once were aisles were turned into rows, I used to be embarassed when a cutomer would ask where the are jazz cds and i would show them and it would be like 8 rows of discs, or 2 or 3 Miles Davis cd's and no Oscar Peterson etc.. But this effected all genres, heres a bigger problem the labels will face, these artists that they push today, they will have NO CATALOG sales, 10 years from now no one is going to wander in for Ciara's "goodies" or something like that. Its really a sad state, and Best Buy and Target eliminating floor space for music, dont think you will ever find a Miles Davis cd there, and if youre looking for Reggae or something like that which at one point Sam Goody was the best for, try going into to Best Buy, there Reggae section is Sean Paul. Good Luck! "We went where our music was appreciated, and that was everywhere but the USA, we knew we had fans, but there is only so much of the world you can play at once" Magne F | |
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NDRU said: I'm obviously old. I'd much prefer to buy a cd than download a song.
Same here.I'm totally Old School  I like having the actual CD in my hands,with the liner notes/booklet. | |
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paligap said: On the whole, I still prefer the Cds. But I must admit I got tired of retail stores (even Tower) years ago, because I was fed up with staring at empty bins for the kind of stuff I was looking for, or the blank stares of many retailers who had no idea what I was talking about
I know what you mean.I hate record stores that only carry a few titles by the artist! In recent years,even Tower Records did this.It's frustrating when you go to two or three different record stores and can't find the one CD you want. | |
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SexyBeautifulOne said: I am so sick of reading how music sales are in decline and all the industry's excuses as to why that is. WE (music consumers) know why that is! The music that they expect us to buy nowadays is nothing more than steaming piles of CRAP! If they'd just quit producing CRAP, they'd see sales go up! They can start by finding artists that actually have some freaking talent and put some damn effort into nurturing and promoting them instead of wasting money and energy on should-have-never-beens like Fergie!
PREACH!!  | |
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theAudience said: lastdecember said: This belief thats Music somehow is just for people under 25 is a joke.
In moments of insanity i've considered starting a record label catering to folks my age that don't mind spending money on CDs that they want. I know there are others like myself because i've seen them in places like Best Buy aimlessly wandering the Jazz (an almost non-existent area at this point) and R&B (a misnomer at this point) aisles like extras from Night of the Living Dead.
tA Tribal Disorder
http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431 When you are ready, count me in....your friend in Tally and I batted this project around for a year or so.....I think I still have the business plan, if you want to take a look.....  "Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them humanity cannot survive."
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The music industry has made so many mistakes that its hard to feel sorry for them as they continue to spiral downward. My own CD purchases have dropped sharply since Tower Records closed. I have few options now for CD shopping, and usually end up buying what I want from iTunes, emusic.com, or 7digital.com out of the UK for imports. Physical CDs take up space, and I listen to music mostly on the iPod anyway, so getting the tunes in digital format just makes sense. Sometimes, depending on the artist, I still buy the physical CD, but usually not. I love the album format and I hope it doesn't fade away as the trend changes towards the consumer buying individual tracks - - that would suck royally. The music industry is changing and it will be interesting to see how it develops. I'm guessing that major labels will become less and less important in the scheme of things, but music itself will continue to thrive. It's too important to too many people. But if stores like FYE truly believe that they are going to survive selling catalogue titles for $18.99 and $19.99 a piece... well, the joke is on them. | |
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I buy my CDs....and never in stores....virtually all of them are purchased online.
I guess I am old/old-fashioned, too. I cannot find what I want in stores 99% of the time. "Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them humanity cannot survive."
Dalai Lama | |
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NorthernLad said: if stores like FYE truly believe that they are going to survive selling catalogue titles for $18.99 and $19.99 a piece... well, the joke is on them.
I hate FYE!!  That's got to be the worst record store of all.The prices are INSANE.They need to shut down asap! | |
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NDRU said: I'm obviously old. I'd much prefer to buy a cd than download a song.
I am obviously really, really old. I'd much prefer to buy vinyl than a cd. a psychotic is someone who just figured out what's going on | |
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Stax said: NDRU said: I'm obviously old. I'd much prefer to buy a cd than download a song.
I am obviously really, really old. I'd much prefer to buy vinyl than a cd. speaking of vinyl,I'm doing a vinyl dig this weekend Rasputin,here I come! | |
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SoulAlive said: NorthernLad said: if stores like FYE truly believe that they are going to survive selling catalogue titles for $18.99 and $19.99 a piece... well, the joke is on them.
I hate FYE!! That's got to be the worst record store of all.The prices are INSANE.They need to shut down asap!I used to work part-time at FYE right after college (it was Camelot Music back in those days..) I used to have to zip my lips to avoid the urge to ask people why the hell they were shopping there, heh. I've never understood paying 16, 17, 18, 19 or even 20 $$$ for a CD when you can get them for 9.99, 10.99, 11.99 or 12.99 at the right stores. | |
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SoulAlive said: Stax said: I am obviously really, really old. I'd much prefer to buy vinyl than a cd. speaking of vinyl,I'm doing a vinyl dig this weekend Rasputin,here I come!I really hope you guys are checking out your local Goodwill stores on vinyl digs...all vinyl is $.75....and you will be pleasantly surprised what you find there... "Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them humanity cannot survive."
Dalai Lama | |
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cubic61052 said: SoulAlive said: speaking of vinyl,I'm doing a vinyl dig this weekend Rasputin,here I come!I really hope you guys are checking out your local Goodwill stores on vinyl digs...all vinyl is $.75....and you will be pleasantly surprised what you find there...  Oh yeah,I know all about the Goodwill and thrift stores. | |
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NorthernLad said: SoulAlive said: I hate FYE!! That's got to be the worst record store of all.The prices are INSANE.They need to shut down asap!I used to work part-time at FYE right after college (it was Camelot Music back in those days..) I used to have to zip my lips to avoid the urge to ask people why the hell they were shopping there, heh. I've never understood paying 16, 17, 18, 19 or even 20 $$$ for a CD when you can get them for 9.99, 10.99, 11.99 or 12.99 at the right stores. Yeah,I can't imagine why anybody would shop there.We have one of those stores in a local mall and I avoid it completely. | |
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I've never spent more money on cd's than the past couple of years...but i spend it in second-hand stores, ebay and garage-sales...where one can find music by good artists long forgotten by the main stream audience today. I'd rather spend 70$ on the bill monroe bear family box than pay 30$ for 50 cents entire catalogue. Music today sucks,...big time...so I won't buy it. Get me the next jeff buckley and I'll run to the store. I've bought John mayer's latest, hank III's, and e couple of others. But good albums in 2006?...5 or 6 that i can think of. While I bought about a hundred cd's last year second-hand. that's part of the problem for the music bussines. It was not in vain...it was in Minneapolis! | |
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NorthernLad said: SoulAlive said: I hate FYE!! That's got to be the worst record store of all.The prices are INSANE.They need to shut down asap!I used to work part-time at FYE right after college (it was Camelot Music back in those days..) I used to have to zip my lips to avoid the urge to ask people why the hell they were shopping there, heh. I've never understood paying 16, 17, 18, 19 or even 20 $$$ for a CD when you can get them for 9.99, 10.99, 11.99 or 12.99 at the right stores. Well this is beyond a Stores control, this is a label controlled thing. The funny thing is Catalog sales, which is aimed at 29-40 year olds, that genre of music is up% wise in sales, its the new releases and the teen stuff that is way down. I remember my days at Sam Goody and prices were high, and i used to think why? are they high? and then i researched and learned exactly why, so when people asked "why is this so much? i told them the deal. The funny thing is around 2004 or so, labels dropped their list price 2 dollars on Catalog cds, which was their idea to get more sales, HOWEVER while the stores had to drop a cd price 2 bucks the labels didnt drop their price when they sold it to stores, this plan is exaclt what caused Tower to close, and Musicland/Sam Goody/Fye to shut close to 1000 stores in the last year with more to come. And dont be surprised to see Best Buy and Target to start cutting music down to small racks in their store, I hope you arent looking for Led Zeppelin or The Beatles, because all your gonna find now in stores like these are the new Jibbs cd or something like that. "We went where our music was appreciated, and that was everywhere but the USA, we knew we had fans, but there is only so much of the world you can play at once" Magne F | |
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CinisterCee said: xplnyrslf said: Why pay $15.00 plus for a whole CD when I just want 1 or 2 songs??
Why not pay 99 cents to download those 2 songs then? I do that. Except Prince music. I buy his CDs and whatever I can get my hands on: movies, concert performances etc... | |
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NDRU said: I'm obviously old. I'd much prefer to buy a cd than download a song.
I couldn't even download Guitar because of technical difficulties. I'm so sick of having to register for a million web sites. Ha! That's too funny. I'm 52 and the bliss of having kids is they help with technical stuff until you catch on. (except when they're too busy, thus my missing avatar) | |
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NDRU said: MikeMatronik said: I can't download a song just because I like it. Call me a freak but I refuse to buy singles or just a song. I'm an album freak! Shoot me, but real artists release albums to be heard! No shuffle for me!
Actually I like downloading for singles, but I don't do it very often. Like you say, if I like the artist I want the whole album. But a couple years ago I had to learn 20 plus songs for my band in a short period of time, and I was really glad I could get them from itunes instead of buying 20 whole albums. But that's more of a work situation than a pleasure thing. For pleasure I almost never download anything unless it's the only way. Since it's work related music, is it tax deductable?? [b] | |
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xplnyrslf said: NDRU said: I'm obviously old. I'd much prefer to buy a cd than download a song.
I couldn't even download Guitar because of technical difficulties. I'm so sick of having to register for a million web sites. Ha! That's too funny. I'm 52 and the bliss of having kids is they help with technical stuff until you catch on. (except when they're too busy, thus my missing avatar) I'm even pretty good at computer stuff! That's what's so annoying. But when there's a computer glitch there's nothing you can do. At a store, at least there's some kid with no customer service skills giving you a blank/mildly-annoyed stare, right My Legacy
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xplnyrslf said: NDRU said: Actually I like downloading for singles, but I don't do it very often. Like you say, if I like the artist I want the whole album. But a couple years ago I had to learn 20 plus songs for my band in a short period of time, and I was really glad I could get them from itunes instead of buying 20 whole albums. But that's more of a work situation than a pleasure thing. For pleasure I almost never download anything unless it's the only way. Since it's work related music, is it tax deductable?? [b] technically, yes, but I don't really make enough money at music to do the tax work. Supposedly I could save those receipts for 7 years and do it retroactively, though. My Legacy
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SexyBeautifulOne said: I am so sick of reading how music sales are in decline and all the industry's excuses as to why that is. WE (music consumers) know why that is! The music that they expect us to buy nowadays is nothing more than steaming piles of CRAP!
If they'd just quit producing CRAP, they'd see sales go up! They can start by finding artists that actually have some freaking talent and put some damn effort into nurturing and promoting them instead of wasting money and energy on should-have-never-beens like Fergie! True! I download, but I still prefer to have a CD. I download as a form of protest. Protesting high prices, crappy music, the financial excess of most record companies...Anything I can do to hurt their profits just a little bit.  | |
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Die bullshit die! Afterwards, send the garbage truck around to send the trash back to the gutter. Andy is a four letter word. | |
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vainandy said: Die bullshit die! Afterwards, send the garbage truck around to send the trash back to the gutter.
I think it's already officially dead. The only way to make money in this is to play live shows, so bands will follow. | |
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oh, and t-shirts/merchandise. good news for you designers. | |
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