I like/ love all of Stevie's '70s (and some of his '60s stuff too), and appreciate his often-wonderful singing, songwriting, innovative musical arrangements, artistic vision in this period. But -

I suppose the greatest mystery about Stevie Wonder is how he seemed to run out of steam creatively after 1980. An artist as great and diverse as he was in the '70s, and yet he has clearly since struggled with song-writing, production, mixing (or at least confidence in releasing his own work?), releasing basically passable, if mediocre material since then, the odd good/ great song accepted.

I only have 'Conversation Peace' (1995) and 'A Time To Love' (2005) from his later career. Both these have their moments, especially the former, and the Prince collab. 'So What the Fuss' on the latter, but they are quite few and far between.I keep hoping for a later career creative rennaissance, as can happen with greats like him, but I don't see any sign as yet.

Unlike his artistic peers such as Paul McCartney, Curtis Mayfield, Marvin Gaye, Bob Dylan and Prince, he doesn't seem to have made even a very good record since 'Hotter Than July'. Why is this? Perfectionism? Or a lack of confidence, following his great early legacy? Or creative burn-out?

So, why was this? Did he really cease to make good creative music after 1980, or is this a myth?

"Hotter Than July" is my favorite album but it is also the last great album he made. The new songs on "Original Musiquarium" are great also but I don't really count that as an actual album because it's a greatest hits album and not a full album of new material.

As for everything after that, the same thing happened to him that happened with everyone else.....releasing albums trying to get a pop hit rather than just an R&B hit. Late 1980s.....horrible years.....HORRIBLE years.

While his work isn't as prolific as the early 70's, those were different times. After 1980, everything wasn't gold but maybe we just grow and in 20 years we'll be able to appreciate this master's work
[Edited 3/8/07 14:38pm]

I love Steveland to death..but he lost me with "I Just Called..." and his version of the Police's "Every Breath You Take"...I remember wondering why he put his version out why the original was still in the top 10 back then.

But I did like "Part Time Lover", and "Go Home" (is that the name of it?) and "Overjoyed". I agree with vainandy.."Hotter Than July" was his last great LP.

Well, put it2 erspective like this.....After so many years of being "HIT" driven by record comapny execs you do suffer burnout. which is why artists like Stevie, Like Prince, Like paul McCartney, get to a point in their careers to where they release when they feel like putting something out. But on THEIR terms. Where its about the music they choose to release.

Well, to be fair to Stevie, EVERYBODY went into a downward spiral in the 80s. Everybody that had been around since before the 80s began anyway (and/or people who weren't part of the commercial mainstream like various indie/post-punk groups). I think the problem with a lot of his stuff post Hotter Than July is actually more the production style than anything. I think a lot of the material on his 80s albums would've sounded better if he'd produced them in the more organic style of his 70s records. Granted, I do still think that the material itself was inferior to the stuff in his prime, but I think his career arc through that decade would've been perceived as less of a burnout.

As to whether or not he could still have a career rebirth, I think absolutely. Some of my favorite Ellington stuff was made in the last 15 years of his life. Hell, i think the 90s was pretty bleak for Prince but then Rainbow Children came along.

Miles said:

--- the answer may really be ALL of the above...

* He's definitely got the reputation of a notorious 'perfectionist', and it does seem like he's always second and third guessing himself. According to background singer Jim Gilstrap there's a boatload of songs that he and others have been begging Stevie to put out, but Stevie would just shelve the stuff(that Black Bull vault must rival Prince's...)

*He did seem to get stung by all the negative press that 'Journey Through The Secret Life of Plants' got in the Pop media, and it's as if he decided not to take any chances anymore...almost as if he decided that from then on he would only do safer things--and IMO, that's where the uncertainty seems to come in...

One of his biographies mentioned that, at one point in the early eighties, he approached Quincy Jones about producing an album for him(at which point Quincy apparently read him the riot act -- Quincy felt that Stevie, of all people, didn't need any help producing an album.) I dunno...IMO, just from reading articles and interviews, it seems like he's overly concerned about what's commercial, for someone of his stature...you get the sense that he's wary of duplicating his 70's sound and feel, as if it's "been there, done that", and he wants to appear 'current'. However, he continues to play it extremely safe in his playing and songwriting, and that's not what made him the legend he is --- or is it that some artists do have a window of creativity that just passes at some point?


* Then, of couse, there's his infatuation with clean, almost antiseptic digital sounds and rhythms. He seems to have turned his back on keyboards with a warm analog feel, and real drums are kept to a minimum. You could definitely argue that some of his more recent output may be as strong as some of his earler stuff, if it was only put in a diffrent production setting....

* Another aside -- I'm not sure if this is a physical thing or not, but notice that he doesn't sing in a lower register much anymore -- in fact, by the mid-eighties, he seemed to prefer the higher, more nasal tone....

So, all that's to say-----I dunno.
I keep thinking he's gonna blast evryone outta their chair one' o these days...but I ain't holding my breath waitin' for it, either....




...
[Edited 3/8/07 15:22pm]

I believe every great artist has his decade of succes and highlights.

Stevie and Bowie the 70's
Prince and MJ the 80's

after that we can only be glad that once in a while another great/good song or album appears.

jacktheimprovident said:

...

Damn! Exactly! I was just writing that in my post, ....




...

paligap said:

So digital killed Stevie?

good post....from music of my mind through hotter than july stevie was untouchable.but i sorta feel like songs in the key of life was really where he started losing the "ZONE" that he was in in the early 70's

paligap said:

Thats true, in addition to the pressure that Motown layed on him to produce a hit(esp with Journey bombed). Its a shame though, coz I think its Stevei's MOST prolific moment to date.

Berry Gordy also screamed "disco" @ all of his artists(including Stevie). No more of that self-searching bullshit, its Saturday night fever

vainandy said:

I wouldn't say Stevie was doing that. While it isn't a great record, I think Characters is a good album. "Skeletons" is still the funkiest thing he's done since HTJ. I don't think he was turning his back on the R&B audience when he recorded that one.

Paisley4u said:

I couldnt agree more : ) I'll add another one to that.....Lionel Ritchie in the 80"s

(please dont throw anything)

i use to love the "part-time lover" video when when i was 6

There are a few moments on Characters that are great, I think. "My Eyes Don't Cry" is my all-time favorite Stevie song, and "Free" comes in 2nd. I also quite like "You Will Know".

No. "Characters" was a pretty good album (1987) as well as the "Jungle Fever" soundtrack, which was the mid-90's....

Where's all this talk about "perfectionism" coming from since Stevie himself has pointed out various mistakes in his songs?

Miles said:

I have to agree with you. I think when he became more of an activist and placed his political views with his music, he began to lose touch with his music. I love his 70's stuff and even though they had a message, they were still funky....His later stuff, preached of "self-awareness but suffers from a lack of musical awareness. "A Time to Love", is a nice attempt of his 70's and early 80's stuff but even that suffers.
[Edited 3/8/07 18:38pm]

But people must understand that Stevie will never do another album like Innervisions, SITKOL, or Talking Book. The pop music scene changed immediately after Songs In The Key Of Life was released and when Journey Through The Secret Life of Plants was released in '79, it seemed that Stevie wanted to make a bold statement dealing with the development of plants, but people weren't really biting into the grooves and messages of the record because it was too challenging for many pop listeners who wanted something like Supersition, Sir Duke, or Higher Ground. Hotter Than July was a great record, in fact, it is arguably the last album he did that ever "mattered". With this album, I think he was just trying to play it safe and dig into productions that were really popular at that time including disco and country music. Then, it did go downhill from there but I don't think much of it was disastrous. Alot of the popular stars from the 70's who suffered major declines in their careers in let's say, the late 70's to early 80's, were trying to make successful comebacks and Stevie tried to chase trends instead of creating them in the 80's and 90's. I mean. listen to those dated synthesizer sounds and drum machines of some of the songs he recorded during this time. In my humble opinion, after HTJ from 1980, all of his 80's albums were spotty and mixed bags. And don't let me even mention I Just Called To Say I Love You. That song was sounded like someone pointing a gun to Stevie's head and making him sing a medicore song with sobby lryics.

The only album that seemed to recapture his 70's glory (even though it was another one of his experiments in the New-Jack Swing genre) wasn't even released in the 80's, it was released back in 1991 and that was the great Jungle Fever soundtrack. Conversation Peace was easily one of his most disappointing albums because of its cheap production and the lazy rhythms of some of the songs. A Time 2 Love is a great album, even though it is overlong and has a small number of stinkers. It's an album that sounds quite refreshingly new and vintage at the same time.

I'd say that Characters in 1987 was his last GOOD cd. It was down hill after that.

The eighties seemed to birth in Stevie the desire to cram as many words into a stanza as he could. The results have been horrible, as he's still trying to do it.

Even "A Time to Love," for all the great songs on it, suffers from this malady.

He never 'died' artistically in 1980's

Stevie has released several great albums after hotter than july. Just because they were less good doesn't mean, he died artistically.

I agree with many of the posts on this thread and have long believed that Stevie's artistic output was never the same after Hotter... That said, he did release some gems among his less stellar 80s and 90s work. I honestly think all legendary artists hit a point like that. They have a period where their work is untouchable, then times change and music changes and they are considered outdated and now must compete with a new sound. It happens to damn near everyone, some stay relevant but others have a tough time of it. Also, during an artist's peak years they are creating new sounds, albums etc, without a body of monumental work to compete with. In other words, Innervisions Stevie didn't have Songs In the Key of Life Stevie to compete with--but he does now. It may just be that the current Stevie is in a different space with nothing to prove. Besides, the fire goes out, in most people at least, once they have accomplished so much.

DorothyParkerWasCool said:

Agreed.Every artist has their moment when they can do no wrong....when every album is truly inspired and creative.Stevie had that moment in the 70s (from 'Talking Book' to 'Songs In The Key Of Life'),Prince had that moment in the 80s (from 'Dirty Mind' to 'Lovesexy'),etc.After they reach a certain point,there's no way they can top themselves anymore (artistically).I mean,let's be real here....how can you top an album like 'Songs In The Key Of Life'? How can Stevie (or anyone else,for that matter) make a better album than that?

jacktheimprovident said:

You hit the nail on the head.The 80s was a weird time for artists like Stevie.Suudenly,they were forced to adapt to changing trends.The 80s is all about synthesizers and drum machines.I think Stevie would have fared better if he had stayed true to the "organic style" of his 70s work.The songs on 'Characters' are well-written.The lyrics are superb and the melodies are great.The problem lies in the production.Imagine if he had used real drums,piano,horns and harmonica on those songs!

I agree that it's basically the production. Kinda like Prince nowadays. I love a big part of A Time 2 Love, though.

calldapplwondery83 said:

Me too.'A Time 2 Love' is a good album.Not great,but very good.There are some beautiful ballads on that album.I consider it a nice,Quiet Storm-type album.

they can
santana had a comeback with supernatural and it may be different to the original stuf he did but there where some great guitar parts on it and the collabs worked. sure you can have a revival that big

SoulAlive said:

Yeah, I'm very fond of that album, too.