OK, so a lady friend of mine doesn't like the new Shakira/Beyonce joint. She says that although the two have seized empowerment and joined together against an objectifying male, they still are working the T&A thing.... in service to males! The two seem at odds to her.

What do y'all think about this?

the bottom line is: they are both overrated

if you have something other than a body to offer people, you'll show it. if not, you won't. these ladies can talk about empowerment all they want but they're still slaves to the system until they have something more to offer.

sallysassalot said:

and the church says 'Amen!'







....though I do think Shakira is quite talented
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[Edited 3/5/07 5:45am]

This is my new fav song and favorite video. It's damn hot.

I consider myself a neo-feminist and believe in female empowerment. I do not find this song contradictory to feminist values.

First of all, female sexuality is not just a projection for men, so there's the hole in the argument. This is not in service to men. (and they DO NOT complain about an objectifying male, just a two-timing male).

Exploring sensuality and sexuality is self-expression for me. It's not all about men. I don't understand why people say this. In fact, I find the video quite Sapphic.

Secondly, female seduction is an art form and a power unto itself. Not many people can express it in ultimate form. The power to seduce, which is really something men don't possess, is worth celebrating. Just like when Madonna did it. There's a way to present powerful sexuality and a way to present yourself as a pawn. Madonna was never a pawn and neither are Shakira and Beyonce.

About this video, they are more clothed than normal for the duration. At the end, they have their bellies exposed for belly dancing. The movements throughout the video are artistically captivating. I was blown away by the sensuality of movement.

I know for a fact that men, women, and lesbians have all become slaves to rewinding with the Beautiful Liar video. I've probably seen it 700 times — and I'm straight!!!.


Again, this is the same old Madonna argument and it's not contradictory.

It reminds me of the argument about Prince -- does he or does he not objectify women? -- my response was always "No, he celebrates women." He acknowledges the power of their sexuality to seize him, save him spiritually, etc. Generally, he's begging and sad because he's so in need of the women. So, his scantilly clad dancers never bothered me. (the only time I felt he objectified women was in the pr movie and the smf song ...partly because he was barking at them from a group of men (just like in the segment for SOTT) whereas in the worshipful songs toward women, he'd be alone and vulnerable to them.

Anyway, sexuality and its expression is very complex. You can't just present a simple condemnation. Women expressing sex can be objectification or empowerment, depending on context and subtext. Frankly, I find it women who've lost touch with their sexuality to be powerless. Why do you think clitoral circumcision was used in the past to control women.

Now those video hos letting rappers throw money at them while they shake it -- that's objectification. I was horrified to see chicks smiling all up in videos like that.
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edited to add photo
[Edited 3/7/07 20:26pm]

As a shakira fan I have to say that I really like the song.

Still I wanted some lesbian action between them...shame it didn't happen! Life is so unfair!

If u are FINE, and both of these woman are, then show it. It does NOT last 4ever.

Shaki has lots of talents! You gotta see her dance

I love the video it is hot stuff!!!!! And Shakira is very talented she is a singer songwriter and plays a couple of instruments and Beyonce is is an ok singer.

MikeMatronik said:

Beyonce wouldn't go for that shyt. She still has that Christian-background.















Yes, another contradictory message.

Shakira still sings like a sheep. I don't care what anybody says.

TonyVanDam said:

Exactly.
[Edited 3/5/07 20:49pm]

missfee said:

sallysassalot said:

Geez, why don't you tell us how you REALLY feel?

Lammastide said:

Her and Stevie Nicks should team up.

Stymie said:

...With Belinda Carlisle.

Lammastide said:

TonyVanDam said:

Didn't Beyonce and Jessica Simpson make some stupid ass comment about Christina Aguilera during her "Stripped" album promotion? They were asked by some interviewer what they thought about Christina's sexed up image for "Stripped" and one of them said something to the effect of, "I would never dress like that because I'm too lady-like"; and the other one said, "I would never dress like that because I'm a Christian." Uhhh, okay. Then, why was Beyonce's ass rolling around on the ground in a pair of short shorts in the "Crazy In Love" video; oh, and how can I forget her simulated sex scene in "Baby Boy". Wow, that was soo lady-like and Christian, B Oh, then, I get to see Jessica Simpson ho it up in that, "These Boots Were Made For Walking" video. Man, they're just both soo classy...about as classy as a hooker in church. These two are complete morons who just need to look pretty and not try to think...in fact, don't even talk. Just stand there and smile and let your dad talk for you, especially since they're fathers run their careers and lives anyway. After that, I lost all respect for both of them. Anyone who calls out someone else for dressing in that manner; and then does it themselves, is a hypocrite, and is also pretty stupid IMO. I don't really think Shakira has an amazing voice, but I admire that she can speak like 3 or 4 languages and she's highly intelligent. Plus, her belly dancing is awesome. Shakira should have done a video with someone else...anyone else.
[Edited 3/5/07 22:51pm]

estelle81 said:

I agree. I wish I could speak more than one language myself.
[Edited 3/6/07 4:56am]

Lammastide said:

missfee said:

I agree. She's very sexy, but her voice

estelle81 said:

I tell you what, I've never seen Amy Grant dress like a ho, and she was sexy despite of her own Christian background.
[Edited 3/6/07 16:00pm]

MikeMatronik said:

THAT"S what I wanted to see. Some lesbo action, all over the floor and shit. That would be hot as hell.

TonyVanDam said:

For the most part I agree with you, but I'd like to add something else to your comment.

For the past few years there's been this trend of hyper-sexualizing damned near everything relating to women and calling it a form of feminist expression. Which certainly can be and is true in some cases. But taking a closer look at the details of this trend -poledancing classes, lingerie as outerwear, encouragement of girl-on-girl for the sake of getting attention, classes teaching oral sex tricks and the celebration of the so-called "yummy mummy" and the Cougars -all things ultimately designed for a male audience, I can't help but wonder if it's all just another form of objectification masquerading as empowerment. After all, the best way to get a populace to play along with even the most degrading activity is to convince them it's in their celebration of being to do so.
[Edited 3/7/07 0:06am]

meow85 said:

Very well said. I agree.

meow85 said:

100% TRUTH.